MaxisGuillaume shows a video of traffic fixes :D

[SirChick 184]

 

Demonstrating some changes for cars to solve faster routes taking traffic into consideration seem to be close to release ! YAY!!

Not sure if they took the 3rd road option the video kinda stopped short but it looks like its getting there! Hope we get the first version of the tweak some time soon! The youtube comments are still lots of moaning people.

I'll say what youtube has not said, thank you Guillaume & who ever else worked on this tweak for us! This is definitely an important aspect that needed to be done. 

 

REALLY hope he can get emergency vehicles to ignore red lights and offset traffic to get emergency vehicles to given events on time.

 

 

[ifurkend 0]

I can't load the video as the message "this video is currently unavailable" pops up every time I reload it. Can someone kindly upload a backup? I also don't feel good as the original video wasn't uploaded to EA official PR channel but a personal channel claimed to be owned by the Maxis staff Guillaume.

[SirChick 184]

I can't load the video as the message "this video is currently unavailable" pops up every time I reload it. Can someone kindly upload a backup? I also don't feel good as the original video wasn't uploaded to EA official PR channel but a personal channel claimed to be owned by the Maxis staff Guillaume.

 

 

Try view his channel and see it in list of uploaded videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/LeGulm?feature=watch

[PieceOfMind 3]

I made this comment on another forum...

 

 

Regarding the poor traffic path-finding, my guess is that it was a bug. They probably have coded a factor in for congestion but maybe late in development they broke it while fixing something else, and then there wasn't enough testing after that.

 

The reason I think it was a bug is that Guillaume Pierre seemed genuinely confused at that "abysmal pathfinding" youtube video and said something like "but they should be avoiding congestion".

 

Looking at Pierre's video again though, I'm feeling even less confident it's a good fix. It seems that even after the new road is made, and some cars have headed for it, still many others go onto the already crammed dirt road. I guess in normal cities these sorts of extreme cases will be rare, and easily fixed when they do arise. Still, once the new route is discovered, why isn't it that basically every agent should start going the alternative route? For some weird reason, it's only once he makes the intersection 4-way that suddenly pretty much all the cars start taking the alternate route. Hopefully it's a work in progress and he's addressing that.

 

It looks like the cars that are originally taking the alternative route are only doing so because they won't fit. So maybe he's put in a logical step like:

If can't get across intersection due to traffic buildup, turn left or right randomly and seek a new route.

 

But then I can't explain after the 4-way intersection imrpoves it all.

 

 

Has he elaborated anywhere what the new logic actually is?  Or has anyone done much testing of this yet (I hear it is implemented on the test server?) I don't own the game :/

[Panos 29]

Thank you Guillaume (and whom ever else working)

 

The next steps should be to be able to make proper roundabouts and direct traffic on roads at a single direction. 

[MINIggy03 227]

Oh come on, we all know this is fake and EA/Maxis has no intention of fixing this game.  It's all a ploy to take your money through youtube propaganda.  Don't fall for it guys! KEEP THE HATE ALIVE!!!!    

[Ferditjuh 0]

PieceOfMind, i think they still preferred the dirt road because the avenue heading to the left was a pretty large arch to the left. When he adds the 2nd avenue to the right the traffic immediately prefers that road because its only slighty longer and a much higher density.

 

It might not be the best fix possible, but im happy to see theyre atleast looking into it. Ill take anything over the current grid locks + unused roads.

[Jahnri 21]

Much better 

It just like the dev said. Roads have weights on them. Once a road reaches a certain point of traffic cars bypass it for another second, thirds and so on route. Simple and effective. Very happy now.

[DrKing2020 8]

I hope this is real and they're really working on it. Would love to see them address pathfinding of utility and mass transit vehicles.

[PieceOfMind 3]

PieceOfMind, i think they still preferred the dirt road because the avenue heading to the left was a pretty large arch to the left. When he adds the 2nd avenue to the right the traffic immediately prefers that road because its only slighty longer and a much higher density.

 

It might not be the best fix possible, but im happy to see theyre atleast looking into it. Ill take anything over the current grid locks + unused roads.

I don't think that's right.  If you watch carefully, it is the moment that 4-way intersection is created that suddenly all the traffic starts going the other route.  At that moment, the right turn for that intersection is a deadend.  It's almost as if putting in another road forced an update of the entire network and then all of a sudden, agents realised the new route.

 

Put another way, before that 4-way is created, vehicles are still piling onto the dirt road whenever they can.  As soon as the 4-way is created, yet no new route is created, no one takes the dirt road anymore.

 

Doesn't seem logical to me...

[SomewhereSim 13]

Yes, it is looking better...   Glad they are addressing issues now since the servers are pretty much stable.

[crashx 18]

Yes thanks. If it is going to be a online game then they better support it like one.

 

It's great to see them working on it, definitely.

[Ferditjuh 0]

PieceOfMind, i think they still preferred the dirt road because the avenue heading to the left was a pretty large arch to the left. When he adds the 2nd avenue to the right the traffic immediately prefers that road because its only slighty longer and a much higher density.

 

It might not be the best fix possible, but im happy to see theyre atleast looking into it. Ill take anything over the current grid locks + unused roads.

I don't think that's right.  If you watch carefully, it is the moment that 4-way intersection is created that suddenly all the traffic starts going the other route.  At that moment, the right turn for that intersection is a deadend.  It's almost as if putting in another road forced an update of the entire network and then all of a sudden, agents realised the new route.

 

Put another way, before that 4-way is created, vehicles are still piling onto the dirt road whenever they can.  As soon as the 4-way is created, yet no new route is created, no one takes the dirt road anymore.

 

Doesn't seem logical to me...

 

Hmm, youre right, that does look pretty weird. Not much else i can think of that could be causing that then. They did say theyre still working on it, so lets hope the actual fix is even better than this video. Still, its an improvement over the current situation.

[PieceOfMind 3]

 

PieceOfMind, i think they still preferred the dirt road because the avenue heading to the left was a pretty large arch to the left. When he adds the 2nd avenue to the right the traffic immediately prefers that road because its only slighty longer and a much higher density.

 

It might not be the best fix possible, but im happy to see theyre atleast looking into it. Ill take anything over the current grid locks + unused roads.

I don't think that's right.  If you watch carefully, it is the moment that 4-way intersection is created that suddenly all the traffic starts going the other route.  At that moment, the right turn for that intersection is a deadend.  It's almost as if putting in another road forced an update of the entire network and then all of a sudden, agents realised the new route.

 

Put another way, before that 4-way is created, vehicles are still piling onto the dirt road whenever they can.  As soon as the 4-way is created, yet no new route is created, no one takes the dirt road anymore.

 

Doesn't seem logical to me...

 

Hmm, youre right, that does look pretty weird. Not much else i can think of that could be causing that then. They did say theyre still working on it, so lets hope the actual fix is even better than this video. Still, its an improvement over the current situation.

I agree.  I'm just a bit surprised that no one has mentioned any problem with it.  I guess it's because the first implementation was so bad that, heck, doing anything to that code probably would have improved it.  Or people are so desparate for any sign of the issues being addressed they'll take anything.

Anyway, it's better, but without seeing it in action in any more than one specific test case (where even there it was still a bit odd) it's too early to say whether it's good.

 

By the way, if I seem rather pedantic about this, I guess it's because this aspect of the game is the one I must be most interested in.  Making an efficient path-finding algorithm that produces beleivable behaviours for agents is something I think must be a great challenge for the devs, and whatever solution they end up at will be interesting to consider.

[GenXisT 127]

I watched this vid and after he puts the road on the left, some cars start taking it immediately...reducing traffic a bit on the dirt road.

this can be observed during the zoom in at :25.

 

some cars still prefer the dirt road at this time.  that's logical.   no reason to think EVERY car would take the new road.

 

he then lays down the one on the right, and then people start taking that new road too... but then NO ONE takes the dirt road.

That is still incorrect.  just because the other 2 are higher volume roads shouldn't automatically deem the dirt road irrelevant.

it's completely empty, not to mention a shorter route, so it should still be a viable option.

 

Seems to me that they're having a bit of trouble with the comparison of the options. Volume/Density vs Distance.

[gmart530 6]

I'm just looking at buses because they are a good frame of reference on how traffic is moving, they're big and easy to spot.  From the moment he creates the avenue intersection there are 4 buses queued up on approach to the dirt road.  One comes from the side road near the sewage pipe.  Here's what I observed in the clip:

• The 1st bus (left lane) looks to be first in line as soon as the road is connected, but waits for space on the dirt road.
• The 2nd Bus (starts left lane but moves to middle lane) approaches the intersection and still waits for access to the dirt road.  A greenish car behind it, and a white car behind that one both move to the left turn lane and proceed to the avenue.
• The 3rd Bus (right lane) stays in the right lane for the dirt road.  He then Guillaume then starts building the right route.
• The 4th Bus (right lane) which sits 1st in line from the right lane and proceeds to the left route at which point a 5th bus appears.  
• 5th bus and subsequent buses now start to use both turns despite distance to travel.  It would probably make more sense to go right only, but I'm not complaining if it means that 2 roads will be sharing the traffic that could be one.

It looks like it takes a "generation" of traffic or so for it to kick in.  To me this suggests that traffic is possibly predetermined for some cars depending on what the road network is when they spawn.  After all, since traffic flows so well on the avenues after both routes are open, why would any cars still continue to go down the dirt road after the avenue opens up entirely.

 

This is still a WIP, so I'm hoping that the reactions will be a little faster by the time this is released, but that may be a part of the glass box engine's handling of agents as a whole rather than the traffic simulations specifically.

[perafilozof 143]

Record time for a fix, you have to give them points for that.

[macvirt 361]

Record time for a fix, you have to give them points for that.

 

Not really, considering these are issues that for a AAA title should never have resulted in to a release. Don't get me wrong, nice to see they are continuing the work, but this is not fixing. This is a continuation of work. 

[Teeceman 0]

I watched this vid and after he puts the road on the left, some cars start taking it immediately...reducing traffic a bit on the dirt road.

this can be observed during the zoom in at :25.

 

some cars still prefer the dirt road at this time.  that's logical.   no reason to think EVERY car would take the new road.

 

he then lays down the one on the right, and then people start taking that new road too... but then NO ONE takes the dirt road.

That is still incorrect.  just because the other 2 are higher volume roads shouldn't automatically deem the dirt road irrelevant.

it's completely empty, not to mention a shorter route, so it should still be a viable option.

 

Seems to me that they're having a bit of trouble with the comparison of the options. Volume/Density vs Distance.

I think no one takes the dirt road because from watching the vid it appears to be still backed up and slow moving.

[mastorofpuppetz 199]

Record time for a fix, you have to give them points for that.

You have not been gaming long..............

[GenXisT 127]

I watched this vid and after he puts the road on the left, some cars start taking it immediately...reducing traffic a bit on the dirt road.

this can be observed during the zoom in at :25.

 

some cars still prefer the dirt road at this time.  that's logical.   no reason to think EVERY car would take the new road.

 

he then lays down the one on the right, and then people start taking that new road too... but then NO ONE takes the dirt road.

That is still incorrect.  just because the other 2 are higher volume roads shouldn't automatically deem the dirt road irrelevant.

it's completely empty, not to mention a shorter route, so it should still be a viable option.

 

Seems to me that they're having a bit of trouble with the comparison of the options. Volume/Density vs Distance.

I think no one takes the dirt road because from watching the vid it appears to be still backed up and slow moving.

 

as you can see from this clip (check the time on the vid as well), the traffic on the dirt road just carries on.  The arrow is the back car in the line... so yes, there's traffic on it, but it's moving and no new  traffic is filling it.

 

 

i don't think this should be happening.  SOME cars should still go on the dirt road.  Again, it's still the shorter path, and with the new avenues,  they all now have options.

at least that's how I take it... I could be wrong, of course.

[Sunfighter 186]

I hope they also can add in some improvements to the left turning AI. Ive had far too many intersections where only 1 car is getting though at a green light because the AI is too afraid to turn left in front of oncoming traffic. Honestly, unless they implement some form of left turn lanes (doubtful) they may just have to disable the AI worrying about oncoming traffic when turning left...its the easiest solution IMHO.

[Board_Marshal 104]

I wonder if they've added the 3 weighted or threshold value system of path choice which have been mentioned by myself and others before:

 

Distance, road size, traffic.

 

If the three values are weighted and/or have thresholds then it would make sense that if the priority of distance (shortest) from A to B is reduced relative to road size and traffic congestion AND all the vehicles have the same behavior then they'll all favor the larger, low traffic roads over the dirt road despite the extra distance (what we see, the large roads never get backed up enough to warrant return to the dirt road).  I would bet that if the traffic on the larger roads reached a certain threshold value for congestion then some cars would again resume taking the dirt road because the shortest distance will gain in importance and the the smaller throughput of the dirt road won't be enough of a negative factor (relatively speaking) when the large roads have too much traffic.  I'd like to see the same simulation with tons and tons of cars filling the two side routes because I'd bet the agents would return to the dirt road. 

[Board_Marshal 104]

I thought this idea put fourth by somebody else would be a really cool idea for Maxis to add at some point after the current mess has been smoothed out.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1ac9ap/the_real_issue_with_simcity_the_feeling_of/

 

 

[–]georgetownhoya 1 point

46 minutes  ago

The weighting isn't equal. It is just poorly tuned. The D* algorithm lets them assign weights, and they are improving them now.

• permalink
• parent

 

 

[–]jjjaaammm 1 point

16 minutes  ago

they will be improved, but the weighting should also take into account uniformed or suboptimal decision making on part of individual Sims, each Sim should have a modifier attached to him which represents awareness, more educated sims carry a 1 (meaning they following the weights 1:1) where as less educated Sims carry 1.2 or larger number to throw off the calculation and make them take less optimal paths.

your sims observed behavior will then become more optimized and is thus a reward for properly educating them.

 

This would be an excellent tie in of education to the behavior of the Sim agents.  This is what I think of when I visualize trying to approximate real life through simulation.

[SirChick 184]

I should note his video is not the final version hes still working on it.

[MaxisGuillaume 289]

I played with the new tuning (along with a few other changes that are not ready for prime time yet) all day Friday, and now I'm a little worried that the traffic game might be *too* easy. Let me know if it's the case after the new tuning comes in!

[cubercaleb 8]

I played with the new tuning (along with a few other changes that are not ready for prime time yet) all day Friday, and now I'm a little worried that the traffic game might be *too* easy. Let me know if it's the case after the new tuning comes in!

Right now I'm not noticing any major traffic problems, then again most of my cities are around 15,000 sims. You guys have done a lot to fix up this and I just wanted to say thanks. This is just an idea,  but could we possible get elevated streetcar roads in the future? That way the streetcars won't interfere with everything else.

[Wilkono 2]

Looking forward to trying this out - thanks from another fan  

[gmart530 6]

I played with the new tuning (along with a few other changes that are not ready for prime time yet) all day Friday, and now I'm a little worried that the traffic game might be *too* easy. Let me know if it's the case after the new tuning comes in!

 

Compared to what it is now I would imagine it would be highly welcomed by the players.  I'd even be happy with leaving traffic pathing the same so long as emergency/service vehicles can pass through or traffic even gets out of the way for them (as is common in every city in the world)

[Glandrex 3]

I played with the new tuning (along with a few other changes that are not ready for prime time yet) all day Friday, and now I'm a little worried that the traffic game might be *too* easy. Let me know if it's the case after the new tuning comes in!

Hi, is there any plans to make bus and streetcars more realistic? Setting a path for them to go and pick up any sims along the route instead of them driving everywhere.