When comparing SC to SC4

[pkderek 51]

Food for thought: Do you actually compare SC(2013) to SC4 vanilla (even throw in rush hour) or are you comparing it to a game with 10 years of community modding to its name?

Dare I blow the minds of the people that seemingly still complain about Maxis "not listening to consumers" and "ignoring issues like city size"?

https://twitter.com/...424720243916800 (probably his 5000th tweet of that nature)

Sim City is far from perfect I'll be the first to say, in fact there is a lot to be desired, but is it because it is bad or because you see underutilized potential that is still ripe for the taking? Then again maybe I'm in the wrong place to seek unbiased opinions?

[macvirt 361]

I don't compare it at all. Entirely different beasts, from entirely different times & circumstances, for entirely different markets and targets.

[Hoipus 292]

I compare simcity to simcity classic, and it still feels a little lacking.

In SimCity Classic you could

1. Alter the terrain

2. Save your Cities

3. Load earlier versions of your cities

I'm trying to be humorous

[nukeu123 307]

there is no such comparing sc4, for is its own entity only because we have billions of user made content, unlike sc2013!

EDIT: and it was obvious from the beginning, EAxis had been aiming this game to the new/inexperienced players and not at all consider the hard-core simmer

[sean24 46]

In 2023 nobody is going to remember Sim City 2013.

[nataniels3 61]

That is the truth. SimCity 4 will still be going strong however, thanks to its super dedicated fans. Going for casual gamers is kind of stupid ( would casual gamers have added as much user generated content as we SimCIty fans have)?

[Herdervriend 46]

It's impossible to do this actually. The game isn't even out, isn't perfected, is just not ready yet. So comparing it now would just be WRONG in all ways possible.

[macvirt 361]

That is the truth. SimCity 4 will still be going strong however, thanks to its super dedicated fans. Going for casual gamers is kind of stupid ( would casual gamers have added as much user generated content as we SimCIty fans have)?

The only limiting factor for SC4 in terms of continuity is that of operating system compatibility. There will come a time where enabling SC4 to run will become impractical or even impossible. In the first case that will stop the flow of novice users to it gradually, in the second case that will phase out the core users marginalising the game as viable.

The only way around that really is either platforms like Steam convincing studio's to make modifications, studio's releasing code or customers being extremely inventive (though since this is an EA title I would be very cautious exploring any such angles).

[Cob92 360]

That is the truth. SimCity 4 will still be going strong however, thanks to its super dedicated fans. Going for casual gamers is kind of stupid ( would casual gamers have added as much user generated content as we SimCIty fans have)?

I played SimCity 4 for 10 years. Every computer I have had, since 4th grade, has had SimCity 4 installed on it almost immediately after setup. I would consider myself a dedicated fan of the game, and I am eagerly looking forward to the release of the new SimCity.

[Zukunftstraume 220]

Food for thought: Do you actually compare SC(2013) to SC4 vanilla (even throw in rush hour) or are you comparing it to a game with 10 years of community modding to its name?

Dare I blow the minds of the people that seemingly still complain about Maxis "not listening to consumers" and "ignoring issues like city size"?

https://twitter.com/...424720243916800 (probably his 5000th tweet of that nature)

Sim City is far from perfect I'll be the first to say, in fact there is a lot to be desired, but is it because it is bad or because you see underutilized potential that is still ripe for the taking? Then again maybe I'm in the wrong place to seek unbiased opinions?

It pains me to see Ocean saying that when these big issues should've been dealt with before launch, not after.

Also, it's not because it has "underutilized potential", it's because they've already set-up the game with a certain base. That base includes having cities spread out away from each other and having regions that are unmodifiable. This is very tragic in a game that had it's 4 predecessors slowly building up more and more on the idea of expansion and terrain editing tools, suddenly... boom! They scrapped the idea and went an entirely different route. So, since they already set up this base, it's hard to see they'll completely revamp this system and give us those two real big features back. Not saying it won't happen, I still have hope, but Maxis isn't saying anything official about this, and we only have two or so hints from Quigley that there might be something coming to fix this.

The underutilized potential just stems from the game being too simplistic in nature and city tile size. Those seem like they'll be fixed in the future. As for God-Mode returning and the ability to create an actual region and megalopolis... who knows, but so long as that's not in the game, I'm not buying it.

[Charizard 284]

Food for thought: Do you actually compare SC(2013) to SC4 vanilla (even throw in rush hour) or are you comparing it to a game with 10 years of community modding to its name?

Dare I blow the minds of the people that seemingly still complain about Maxis "not listening to consumers" and "ignoring issues like city size"?

https://twitter.com/...424720243916800 (probably his 5000th tweet of that nature)

Sim City is far from perfect I'll be the first to say, in fact there is a lot to be desired, but is it because it is bad or because you see underutilized potential that is still ripe for the taking? Then again maybe I'm in the wrong place to seek unbiased opinions?

It pains me to see Ocean saying that when these big issues should've been dealt with before launch, not after.

Also, it's not because it has "underutilized potential", it's because they've already set-up the game with a certain base. That base includes having cities spread out away from each other and having regions that are unmodifiable. This is very tragic in a game that had it's 4 predecessors slowly building up more and more on the idea of expansion and terrain editing tools, suddenly... boom! They scrapped the idea and went an entirely different route. So, since they already set up this base, it's hard to see they'll completely revamp this system and give us those two real big features back. Not saying it won't happen, I still have hope, but Maxis isn't saying anything official about this, and we only have two or so hints from Quigley that there might be something coming to fix this.

The underutilized potential just stems from the game being too simplistic in nature and city tile size. Those seem like they'll be fixed in the future. As for God-Mode returning and the ability to create an actual region and megalopolis... who knows, but so long as that's not in the game, I'm not buying it.

You took the words right out of my mouth. There is a lot of potential to this game, particularly in the simulation area because of glassbox. However, it does not allow you to act as a city designer the way the previous games did. You cannot modify terrain or have cities right next to eachother to have seamlessly flowing cities, which are two big turn offs for me. Plus they pretty much put the fact that this is a town or small city simulator into our faces by not allowing highways or subways to be built. You can kiss your big metropolises from Simcities of the past goodbye. Like you I am not going to buy this game until they remedy these very serious problems. At most I'll buy it when it gets below the $20 mark because that's how much its worth to me right now.

[sean24 46]

This situation reminds me of another gaming series, that has the same name as a certain Maserti, which had a disappointing 5th sequel The creator of said game also made many promises of improvements which has yet to be fully delivered, and every time an update to this game is made, it creates a bug which then has to be dealt with.

To sum up, I don't forsee any major improvements coming to this next Sim City. There will probably just be some disappointment in the years to come, and I'm not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist.

[JJxvi 3]

Seems that this is a reboot, not a sequel.

[CoolColJ 42]

Seems more fun than Simcity 4 for me - SC4 is like watching paint dry, and there is no life...

SC2013 just needs tweaking and fine tuning

[sean24 46]

Seems that this is a reboot, not a sequel.

True, I was commenting on Quigley saying that the game is going to improve and that we will have more freedom to make mods. I think they are putting things out there, but really have no intention of seeing them through, or if Maxis does attempt to improve the city building and managing aspect of the game, its going to be a big headache for all involved. Kinda like the "building your house on sand" analogy. You can't build upon something that had a poor foundation to begin with.

[Servan 5]

Everyone seems to be overlooking the multiplayer aspect, that's the thing that will increase difficulty and make things much more interesting. You can specialize your city and micromanage to keep that specialization going to help others in the region. That's something we didn't see in beta, which is odd since it is basically the primary aspect of the game. I think it will be a lot more in depth.

[sean24 46]

You can specialize your city and micromanage to keep that specialization going to help others in the region.

The problem is that you have to specialize your city. You should be able to build your city how you want. I don't want to have to build a tourist city, an industrial city, and a comercial city. There are very few cities in the world which are based mainly in one specialization, such as Las Vegas. Even Vegas is pretty much self sustaining. It doesn't rely on police and fire protection from somewhere else, and it has it's own power and water supply.

Its all good if you want to specialize your cities, and play and trade with others, but we shouldn't be forced to accept that as the only way to be successful in the game.

[Cob92 360]

You can specialize your city and micromanage to keep that specialization going to help others in the region.

The problem is that you have to specialize your city. You should be able to build your city how you want. I don't want to have to build a tourist city, an industrial city, and a comercial city. There are very few cities in the world which are based mainly in one specialization, such as Las Vegas. Even Vegas is pretty much self sustaining. It doesn't rely on police and fire protection from somewhere else, and it has it's own power and water supply.

Its all good if you want to specialize your cities, and play and trade with others, but we shouldn't be forced to accept that as the only way to be successful in the game.

You don't have to make your city ultra-specialized. It is entirely possible to have a city in this game that covers all of the basics (though the limited land space with the giant service buildings makes that hard after a while); the game simply allows you to outsource the things that you choose to, and to focus your economy in a particular direction. Most cities of significance have one or more industries that are central to their economies.

[sean24 46]

You don't have to make your city ultra-specialized. It is entirely possible to have a city in this game that covers all of the basics (though the limited land space with the giant service buildings makes that hard after a while); the game simply allows you to outsource the things that you choose to, and to focus your economy in a particular direction. Most cities of significance have one or more industries that are central to their economies.

but then you just wind up with a kinda mediocore city right?

[Zukunftstraume 220]

You don't have to make your city ultra-specialized. It is entirely possible to have a city in this game that covers all of the basics (though the limited land space with the giant service buildings makes that hard after a while); the game simply allows you to outsource the things that you choose to, and to focus your economy in a particular direction. Most cities of significance have one or more industries that are central to their economies.

but then you just wind up with a kinda mediocore city right?

Hmmm... Well let's see, a township that shouldn't be specialized in anything and just have a big mix of everything... So it would be a university-town, have different power plants, casinos, hi-tech industry, manufacturing facilities, mansions, squatter housing apartments, a train station, it's own police and fire stations, parks, a water treatment plant, a landfill, small businesses, and it's own hi-rise downtown financial district... All of this in a 2x2 (which doesn't even seem like a 2x2)... Seems perfectly realistic

But on a more serious note... That tile size is your deal-breaker here. For this game to have non-specialized cities, we definitely need larger tile sizes.

[Securion 3]

When comparing them it really feels like SimCity have a deeper and more mature simulation going on than SC4.

SimCity is lacking city size though, but that will probably be fixed pretty soon. At least we can hope...

[macvirt 361]

When comparing them it really feels like SimCity have a deeper and more mature simulation going on than SC4.

SimCity is lacking city size though, but that will probably be fixed pretty soon. At least we can hope...

Hardly. I'll readily admit that SC2013 has a lot more design packaging and emphasis on creating the perceptions of overview and influence on a set of simulation elements. But the simulation itself is much more limited than that of SC4. Which is only natural, because the design scope is so different. SC4 aims towards an immersive experience of detail management based on complexity and the aspiration of finding realism in replication of the real in the virtual. SC20132 aims towards a low treshold fun experience of placing elements in order to create the perception of a simulation without the constraints of the real (world).

In terms of game design, that is very well done. It is one of the biggest reasons why this will sell very, very well, to today's mass markets.

We should just accept that we should not compare the two, because they serve different scopes. Yes, SC2013's messaging of realism and simulation is mostly just marketing, but that can hardly be a surprise to anyone. It's fine, for the purpose of design it fits the shiny shoes.

But the deeper simulation is not part of SC2013. For a quick bit of fun with less puzzle factors our experience can go deeper, but that is something else.

[sean24 46]

Hmmm... Well let's see, a township that shouldn't be specialized in anything and just have a big mix of everything... So it would be a university-town, have different power plants, casinos, hi-tech industry, manufacturing facilities, mansions, squatter housing apartments, a train station, it's own police and fire stations, parks, a water treatment plant, a landfill, small businesses, and it's own hi-rise downtown financial district... All of this in a 2x2 (which doesn't even seem like a 2x2)... Seems perfectly realistic

But on a more serious note... That tile size is your deal-breaker here. For this game to have non-specialized cities, we definitely need larger tile sizes.

Power and water are the only things I can feasibly see needing to be outsourced from another region. But even then most places with a decent population need some form of power control and water and sewage treatment facility. If your city square is kinda rural there needs to be an option for sheriff substations and a rural fire control center. Thats kinda where the sc4 modding community comes into play. There are many brilliant users who create specialized lots that fit different needs. I don't believe we will see such things in this sim city.

If I see anything to the contrary I will gladly purchase this game used, but I have spent enough money on new games just to be disappointed.

[Zukunftstraume 220]

^ Or have the game just be an extension to The Sims 3 where neighborhoods are customizable would also be fitting

The Sims 3 Neighborhood Expansion Pack!!!

One tile could act as the small residential core community, another tile could act as the downtown, another could be the vacation resort town, another could be the university town, another could be the country-style Pets town, another could be a mid-sized market center, another could be the studio town, and so forth...

That's exactly what the Beta felt like to me since seeing how in the Sims you couldn't see any of the "space" between two maps, this game actually forces you to be able to see the truth of what lies between two neighborhoods in the Sims... nothing

[flyer2359 92]

I personally love both, SimCity 4 and SimCity 2013. They're each great in their own way. Do I think the new one is missing some stuff? Yes, but the core game "SimCity" is there and has different features that weren't in previous SimCity games either. I don't really think you can do a true comparison between SC4 and the new one just because they are so vastly different.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I compare SimCity 2013 to Cities XL's Planet Offer. Both have their positives and negatives.

--Ocram