boisemetro BAT Thread

[Francis90b 748]

you have to follow the games criteria to maximize the chances of fitting ingame. Hence somehow follow the maxis scales.

Not always, and not really - there's quite a number of BATs that, while being modelled to real scale or close to real scale, are still perfectly usable in game.There are mods that completely altered the game appearence (think of NAM, to say one), and dozens of BATers that did not closely stick to Maxis scale, but followed one (or many !) of their own, sometimes with nice results, sometimes with less nice results, still subtly, but substantially altering the feel of the game if one wants to look at things in depth .

What you state might have been 100% true and convenient six or seven years ago - now things are a bit different, and maybe following maxis is not "the" choice, but one of the possible options.

If reality was simpler, i'd have wholeheartedy agreed with you - but an heavily altered reality as the one we've found us in now leaves more options are open, and honestly i'd stick, and suggest people to stick, to the one that, while not being 100% close to what Maxis left us, could at least ensure more visual interest and accuracy.

It could be also said that while what Maxis buildings won't increase, the amount of BATs done by people following different (even slightly different) scaling criterias is necessarily bound to increase - thus further lessening the importance of Maxis building stock in any consideration about scaling, to those who, at some point of their BATing carreer, are forced to consider this issue.

  Edited October 24, 2012 by Francis90b  

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Francis and Gn_leugim, there is no definite accurate scaling for the game. Sc4 has no sense of scale.

Of course I preferred matching Maxis Building's scales or more like matching the heights of sims, but that's just me and my tastes.

Boisemetro- Hey hey, getting better and better with every picture. I really like the way the modeling looks now.

That top white trim seems to be still pretty thick compared to the real one though. When I said it should be less thick compared to what I did, I didn't mean by height. I'd scale that part specifically up a little bit. But that's just a matter of what I think on that part.

Otherwise I can't wait to see textures once you get to that part.

[Gn_leugim 853]

well, I know there are people who made different scale options, but that may lead to an issue. it's like "who tells a tale, adds a tail". I have a slightly bigger scale than the base one, which would be the Maxis one. then someone uses my buildings to base their scale, and adds a bit more height, and so on, and over time we could have a very different scale, which, if in proper environment could not be wrong.

The sad part too, is that, as you say, there are out there some different scales, and combining buildings from each other may be troublesome =|

hence, I still say, for sake of uniformity and better customization of game, we should use a single scale set. but that is way behind my powers ^^

[Francis90b 748]

hence, I still say, for sake of uniformity and better customization of game, we should use a single scale set. but that is way behind my powers ^^

Oh, on this one, my friend, we might agree- we might just disagree as about which one should be the choosen one .

  Edited October 24, 2012 by Francis90b  

[boisemetro 85]

Sgt Pepper: Thanks for your comments. Glad to hear from you that it's looking better. I really appreciate you coming by again. I had forgot to add the trim along the face of the building too so that has now been done.

This is what it is now:

(created a brick texture to use)

Why does the section on the back of the building appear different in texture? (It has the same bitmap and UVW settings applied as the main walls).

Does anyone know where I can find information on making a ploppable with jobs?

  Edited October 26, 2012 by boisemetro  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Wow, you are making progress in leaps and bounds!

I see you added those antenna masts and other roof junk. Now the roof looks so much more realistic, great job so far!

As for that strange section in the back wall, could it be that you have some overlapping geometry there? A wall/object/plane that's "stuck inside" the actual wall?

Making a ploppable with jobs is totally superfluous these days - merely clutters the players' landmark menus, and you will have to edit a menu description as well as a menu icon. More work for you, more clutter for others. Since we have the Extra Cheats DLL, everybody can simply use the "buildingplop" cheat to select any building in his plugins folder and plop it, no matter whether it was growable or ploppable initially. If I were you, I'd stick to the growable and simply add a reference to the Extra Cheats DLL to the STEX description. Since after using the "buildingplop" cheat players will be presented with an alphabetical list to choose the building from, it would make sense to inform them under which name they will find your building in that list if they want to plop it. The name will be the one you enter in the Plugins Manager.

[boisemetro 85]

Hello again T Wrecks. Thanks for coming by again and commenting. I hadn't thought about the buildingplop cheat. Maybe I won't even worry about trying to make a ploppable with jobs then. And I couldn't figure out the back wall, tested all kinds of things and no change, so gave up...

newest addition: front lights. Keep them or not? They are taller than the door frame in the photo so that whys so tall in front of the building...

now to figure out how do lighting correctly...

  Edited October 26, 2012 by boisemetro  

[Gn_leugim 853]

I would say keep it.

Lightnig is the most hard part to master in Gmax IMO. you can take a look at gmax essentials and at my tutorial (on my signature) to give you some insights.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I'm all for keeping the lamps, but I wouldn't make their posts all black, it looks too saturated in game. I'd try to go for pretty much the colour you see on the real-life photo. Then again, textures are probably not final anyway...

[boisemetro 85]

Thank you both, Gn_leugim and T Wrecks for coming back and for your comments. I will look at your tutorial Gn_leugim.

I changed the color of the lamp posts to match the photo. Thanks T Wrecks. Yes, not final textures. I am still trying to figure that out. It seems whenever I add a texture it looks great in preview but then renders differently (even on high).

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Great video! I learned some things. Am putting it here so I don't forget to watch it again.

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I messed with the vertical ribs (made them deeper). Do they look alright, or?

  Edited October 26, 2012 by boisemetro  

[harishna 847]

You doing some good progress but I think you still need to work a bit more on those stairs, they look too small (not in height) and also the entrance, the one in the reference picture is more complex that what you got.

Just that you know if you are student you can get 3ds max for free legally, (gmax is an obsolete and restricted version of 3ds max), not that you can not make great stuff with gmax, but 3ds max gives you more options.

[boisemetro 85]

Hi Harishna. Thanks for the comments. You were right, the stairs needed work. They weren't wide enough. Now they have been fixed and the handrails have been updated and changed to silver like in real life. I am not a student but thanks for the info about 3DS Max.

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UPDATE:

worked on antenna masts and trim of brick roof building

I just realized the windows on any side cannot be seen in a render. That is because I modified the vertical ribs recently. Thinking I should change them back...

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UPDATE:

reduced the size of the verticals and worked on accent lighting:

  Edited October 27, 2012 by boisemetro  

[IL. 1,043]

Looks promising, effcorse it lack much details and textures so far.

[Gn_leugim 853]

one advice, leave lightning till the very end, when you have all modelling and texturing done. different textures look different when light up and if you need to change something on the BAT, you wont have to change the lights as well.

[harishna 847]

I agree, before moving into lights it would be ideal to finish the model, roof textures could use a bit more of work, and the roof junk kinda incomplete.

By the way is not very common for a building like this to have the spotlights illuminating the facade...

  Edited October 27, 2012 by harishna  

[boisemetro 85]

Hello IL. Gn_leugim and harishna. Thanks for your comments. The textures that are on all of it are the best I can do right now. Worked a bit more on the roof details and this is about all I am going to do with it. The actual building has floodlights on the front of the building at night. They can be seen on the concrete above in post #37 too.

  Edited October 29, 2012 by boisemetro  

[harishna 847]

The thing is that the roof textures are most definitely going to look bad in game, they are too bright. Making sure that the roof looks good is really important as this is what is most visible in the game, so I have encourage you to spend a bit more of time tweaking them.

[boisemetro 85]

Hello again harishna. Thank you for your help. The roof is white in real life... So if i change it, I guess it would be to make it look dirtier?

Grabbed a snapshot in game to see how the roof looks:

  Edited October 28, 2012 by boisemetro  

[harishna 847]

Can you see how much it stands out the white, it is too bright.So, first are you sure it is white or does't look white in google earth? You can make it white just adjust the brightness and also it is likely that despite being white it will have a slight tone of color. Look at the model surrounding yours, the 'white' of the stadium and of the building at the bottom right are closer to what you should aim to. Basic things you should get familiarw when edditing your textures are saturation, contrast, brightness and hue, while using the dodge and burn tools can be used to add dirt and stains

[Jasoncw 11,840]

In real life roofs are commonly very white so that they reflect as much sunlight as possible, which reduces heat gain in the building. But very white roofs like that look out of place in the game, so most BATers make grey roofs. On the flip side, asphalt roofs can be very black in real life, and those look out of place in the game as well.

[boisemetro 85]

Thanks harishna and Jasoncw for your comments. Darkened the roof and textured most of the roof junk...

  Edited October 29, 2012 by boisemetro  

[Amthaak 1,501]

Much better!

[boisemetro 85]

Thank you Amthaak

[hotChocolate 95]

You're making great progress! That shot you posted earlier would look perfect with some texture tweaks - the thing in the attic that prevents you from falling down on the border whose name I don't know, the base of the builiding with the stairs, and the ladders would require more detailed textures IMO.

[boisemetro 85]

Thanks Hot Chocolate.

Added slight 'wear' to stairs. Refitted roof trim & made top roof building longer to more accurately reflect true size.

Not sure what else to do to it. Having a very hard time with the building texture. Have tried 1000X1000, 500X500, and 125x125 bitmaps. Have tried custom settings on the mapping, have used the fit option, and tried changing the U,V,& W settings, and tried dragging a jpeg to the wall also but am not getting any good results. Any tips would be greatly appreciated...

  Edited October 29, 2012 by boisemetro  

[harishna 847]

looking much better, the brick texture for the roof access tiles, the parapet looks too bright.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I agree with Harishna, that white parapet is still too bright and white and needs to be toned down a bit(similar to what you did for the roof texture) to fit the game's environment.

I think your glass texture could use some revitalization as well. Ever looked at the textures that came with the BAT? There should be something like BAT: Gamepacks: Textures or whatever that has them.

If you can't find it, and mainly for the sake of this post, here's the Glass Texture that comes with BAT-

I use this texture, as well as another one I found, with my BATs a lot. I'd recommend you use it. However, you would need to edit it's colors a bit. You'd probably want it to slightly match the color you already have, or give it a subtle hint of that color. Then, to make it look a little more like glass or give it this illusion of glass in Gmax, apply "Self-Illumination" to the texture. It's like checking the box for it and selecting the same texture to go there, like what you did with the "Diffuse" option to get the texture itself on the BAT. Self-Illumination only for the glass though.

But it has been coming a long way. You should be very proud of this one, and it'll end up being a great first BAT.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Great first BAT, like to see people take their time and learn as they go along. Really like the roof texture, Sgt Pepper is right about the windows, shame you aren't using Max as you are limited to what you can do with glass in gmax but some variation between windows would be great.

[boisemetro 85]

Thank you harishna, Sgt Pepper and gutterclub for your comments and advice.

Set the parapet to more of a grey hue.

Used the window texture Sgt Pepper recommended with self-illumination.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I would adjust the UVW Mapping on the windows. Select all the windows and increase the UVW Mapping for the glass.