EAs TOS in regards to UGC(User Generated Content)

[iEatRazorz 24]

I'm not sure I'm properly understanding this, so let me try an make sense of this.

I found EAs TOS. Within that I found this:

2. Content

"Content" on EA Services includes software, technology, text, forum posts, chat posts, profiles, widgets, messages, links, emails, music, sound, graphics, pictures, video, code, and all audio visual or other material appearing on or emanating to and/or from EA Services, as well as the design and appearance of our websites. All Content--with the exception of third party content discussed below in Section 6--is owned by EA or its affiliates, subsidiaries, licensors or suppliers. Content includes user-generated Content ("UGC"). UGC includes but is not limited to Account personas, forum posts, chat posts, profile content and any other Content contributed by users to EA Services. EA Content and UGC collectively shall be referred to as "Content." EA does not pre-screen all UGC and does not endorse, approve, or prescreen any UGC that you and other users may contribute to EA Services. You bear the entire risk of the completeness, accuracy or usefulness of Content found on EA Services.

EA reserves the right (but has no obligation except as required by law) to remove, block, edit, move or disable UGC for any reason, including when EA determines that UGC violates these terms. The decision to remove UGC or other Content at any time is in EA's sole and final discretion. To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, EA does not assume any responsibility or liability for UGC or for removal of, UGC or any failure to or delay in removing, UGC or other Content.

You are solely responsible for your UGC and may be held liable for UGC that you post.

7. Contributing UGC to EA Services; License Grant to EA and Others

When you contribute UGC to an EA Service, you expressly grant to EA and its licensors a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, complete, sub-licensable and irrevocable right to quote, re-post, publish, use, adapt, translate, archive, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, syndicate, license, print, sublicense, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the UGC, or any portion thereof, in any manner or form and in any medium or forum, whether now known or hereafter devised, without notice, payment or attribution of any kind to you or any third party. You grant EA and its licensors all licenses, consents and clearances to enable EA and its licensors to use such UGC for such purposes. You waive and agree not to assert any moral or similar rights you may have in such UGC.

If the EA Service on which you contribute UGC permits other users to access and use that UGC as part of the EA Service, then you also grant all other users of the relevant EA Service the right to use, copy, modify, display, perform, create derivative works from, and otherwise communicate and distribute your UGC on or through the relevant EA Service without further notice, attribution or compensation to you.

Now the way I understand this is if EA wanted package all the content generated for SC4 on this and sell it, they could. They could do that and not pay any one person who made any of the material or give credit to. Now, granted SC4 is old, made long before this TOS was written.

So in essence if they allow people to mod SimCity'13 they could do this. So they could essentially build expansions from UGC if they so desired and half of the people who bought it wouldn't even know if could be found online for free...

Not to say they would, but they could if they wanted to. Does this only apply if the creator posts it up on an forum? Or just in general? Am I understanding this correctly?

[LivingInThePast 364]

Maxis said you would be able to mod SC'13.

EA never said they wouldn't claim as their own.

Seriously, is this the case of in The Sims 3? There are a bunch of Sims mods out there...does EA "own" all of them legally?

[krbe 193]

But you didn't find an EA Service, nor § 6, which are what this snippet relates to.

[iEatRazorz 24]

Section six states that if it's not yours you can't post it. They can sue, and you can loose entitlements. Meaning multiplay and account access.

Service is not clearly defined, nor is software, or product. I'm left to assume, any online functionality provided by EA is consider a "service". A game how I interpreted it is software/product.

So The Sims 3 has that exchange thing. Someone uploads something they made. Is the exchange a service? If so, that something now belongs to EA, correct? By their own terms that can legally claim it as their own, and use in their products if so inclined. They also don't have to give you credit for it, nor do they have to pay you. You agreed to the ToS therefore they can legally do that.

Now, SimCity is a game. Therefore a product/software, but it's "always on" right? Meaning, EA is providing online functions, a service, correct? So not only is SimCity a product/software, but it's now a service, right? I doubt if they're going to provide mod support that they would not have an exchange similar to the Sims3 one. Another service, provided undoubtedly by EA. So the question is, can EA foreclose on your work and put it up on the market as their own?

Am I understanding this correctly?

[Tarkus 6,931]

Well, here's the EULA from the "tools" that EA released for SC4 (the BAT and the Lot Editor). I've put a few specific ones in italics.

Electronic Arts Inc, and its subsidiaries, affiliates and licensors (collectively, "EA") grants you a non- transferable non-exclusive license to download and/or install and use one copy of the software tool ("Tool") and/or materials ("Materials") (collectively the "Tools & Materials") solely for your personal noncommercial use in connection with EA's products, in accordance with the terms below.

EA owns all of the rights, title and interest in the Tools & Materials. You may not alter any of EA's trademarks or logos, or alter or remove any of EA's trademark or copyright notices included in or with the Tools & Materials or EA's products. Your right to use Tools & Materials is limited to the license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, distribute, perform, publish, modify, create works from, or use any of the Tools & Materials. Without limiting the preceding sentence, you may not modify, reverse engineer, disassemble, license, transfer, distribute, create works from, or sell the Tool, or use the Tools & Materials to further any commercial or unlawful purpose. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not use the Tools & Materials to promote another product or business, or on any site that operates or promotes a server emulator.

You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA's products, provided this is beneficial to the product(s) in EA's judgment, and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located: "This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or its licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All Rights Reserved." You will not represent that your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors or that any other content on your site is endorsed or approved by or affiliated with EA or our licensors.

THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. EA SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY WARRANTIES OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, MERCHANTABILITY AND NONINFRINGEMENT.

ANY USE YOU CHOOSE TO MAKE OF THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS IS UNDERTAKEN BY YOU ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK. EA DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE TO YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM, NETWORK, SOFTWARE OR OTHER TECHNOLOGY.

EA WILL NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS. PLEASE DO NOT CALL OR SEND EMAIL TO EA CUSTOMER SUPPORT REGARDING THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS, AS EA WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THESE INQUIRIES.

IN NO EVENT SHALL EA BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE OR OTHER DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO THIS LICENSE EVEN IF EA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

EA RESERVES THE RIGHT TO DISCONTINUE THE AVAILABILITY OF THESE TOOLS & MATERIALS, OR MODIFY THEM, AT ANY TIME, WITHOUT OBLIGATION TO ANYONE.

At EA's request, you agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless EA from all liabilities, claims and expenses, including attorneys' fees, arising from any breach of this License by you and/or your use or misuse of the Tools & Materials.

EA may make the Tools & Materials available at its site(s) located in the United States and/or Canada and/or the European Union. You are solely responsible for knowing and complying with all federal, state, and local laws that may apply to your use of Tools & Materials in your own locale. By downloading any Tools & Materials, you warrant that you are not located in any country, or exporting the Tools & Materials to any person or place, to which the United States and/or Canada and/or European Union or its member countries has embargoed goods.

EA may revoke or terminate this license at any time, for any reason or no reason, in its sole discretion. Upon termination, you must destroy or return to EA all Tools & Materials. This License is governed by United States Copyright and California law (without regard to conflicts of law), and is the entire agreement between EA and you regarding the Tools & Materials.

There are lines in there that seem to me to basically imply a similar thing, which means that there's not really anything new to see here, except for the Origin tie-in. It isn't out of the ordinary for any commercial software company to include a EULA /ToS with this sort of language, and it's actually pretty been pretty standard fare for decades.

-Tarkus

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

All of this is a one-way street in favour of EA. If any of you have ever done any contract work, you will find this is a legal and binding contract the instant any consideration (money) passes from you to them. There isn't any way for you to divorce them, but they seem to have lots of options to divorce you, at your peril.

They also state that they are not responsible in any way for any contributed custom content, but are free to distribute it without any qualify assurance and at the risk of the purchaser. In other words, ladies and gentlemen: Caveat emptor.

  Edited April 20, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Mister Giggles 310]

iEatRazorz:

You are understand it correctly. The question is: Is what's outlined in the EA ToS legal?

Does anyone know of any court cases that have tested whether or not this reach of power is legal in regards to a game company owning everything (fan)made for its game?

There are lines in there that seem to me to basically imply a similar thing, which means that there's not really anything new to see here, except for the Origin tie-in. It isn't out of the ordinary for any commercial software company to include a EULA /ToS with this sort of language, and it's actually pretty been pretty standard fare for decades.

-Tarkus

I disagree. It doesn't have nearly the scope of the EA ToS. The scope of the license agreement is limited solely to the tools themselves and ensuring their products can't be sold. The only line that may suggest otherwise:

"Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All Rights Reserved"

Is likely intended to refer to the Tools & Materials, not their products. "Game content" refers to the patches. "Materials" refers to the lot editor, and the like. This license agreement is a legal framework for the event someone takes the Tools & Materials and attempts to sell them, not a claim to ownership like the EA ToS is.

  Edited April 20, 2012 by Mister Giggles  

[iEatRazorz 24]

It's legal theft... EA: Excessive Avarice...

To think someone once said corporations are people...

[Mister Giggles 310]

Corporations ARE composed of people. That does not mean they are good people, or moral people, or people who care about their customers.

On the flip side, that doesn't automatically make corporations evil, or bad, or composed of pricks. Remember: Actions speak louder than words, or a title, or a way of running a business. EA's actions have spoken quite loudly, I think.

[Moskva 75]

Deleted.

  Edited April 20, 2012 by Moskva  

[iEatRazorz 24]

I agree completely with both statements. I was just poking fun at the notion. Let's not get into the political realms here.

I'm looking for court cases pertaining to something like this, I had the funny idea of embedding DRM in the UGC insisting on only three replications per user. If winds up on an EA sever they've violated DRM which is in violation of the DMCA, but in that TOS they use the phrase sub-licensable.

[Moskva 75]

I was intentionally sarcastic, capitalism is not the only model with flaws, in any model "absolute power corrupts absolutely", i recognize this and i apologize if someone felt offended, i am well aware no system is perfect.

PS: I've decided to delete that post as it seems somehow i offended someone, i am sorry, i'll try to keep better my political views for myself, by the way for the lucky ones that have seen that message, don't think it is propaganda, it is just how things, sadly, work.

  Edited April 20, 2012 by Moskva  

[iEatRazorz 24]

Reality is harsh and it takes thick skin to accept the truth of what's around you. On topic though I wonder how the BF3 crowd would react to this since they are supposedly getting mod support. They are a vocal bunch that would probably force some sort of move on EAs part.

[LivingInThePast 364]

To me, it looks like the SC4 Tools, it states that EA owns the tools themselves, not what you create with them. In the case of SimCity '13, they own everything, which is a pretty scary proposition. That has all sorts of implications:

Suppose I create a Burger King BAT. It's mostly perfect in every way, and I can't wait to use it in my SimCities. It gains some popularity, but suddenly I see a Burger King/SimCity promotion with the Burger King BAT being passed off as an "EA Special Building". The promotion places my BK (or a slightly modified version of it) in other SimCity cities. The promotion makes tons of money for EA and Burger King (who is unaware that EA ripped off the BAT). I don't make a cent...and I can be PAYING a monthly fee for SimCity, too!

Another possibility is that I create another "real-world" business. Let's say it's a Kroger. An OLD Kroger, even, in the "Greenhouse" variety that is now sadly more or less extinct. EA could, not finding a promotion opportunity with Kroger, could decide it violates copyright and removes it completely from all cities (remember, Origin integration?), just because of the POTENTIAL it could run up a problem with the Cincinnati based company. Or replace it with an altered, no-brand name...which of course, ruins the point.

[iEatRazorz 24]

I have started posting this at various blogs and forums (I invite more people to do the same):

EA Attempting "Legal" Theft

*Please note: I am not a legal Expert*

EA Games. Is anyone really surprised they won worst company in America? They beat out a bank that helped cripple Americas economy. Is anyone really surprised they won't let you sue them if you have agreed to their terms of service? Is anything that EA does really a surprise anymore? They most certainly have a PR problem, and I don't see it improving. EA wouldn't add to that with “legal” theft though, would they?

Think again. In their November 28, 2011 terms of service they are trying to accomplish exactly that. Two sections set the stage perfectly for it, they even throw one in for handing out the ban candy as well.

2. Content

"Content" on EA Services includes software, technology, text, forum posts, chat posts, profiles, widgets, messages, links, emails, music, sound, graphics, pictures, video, code, and all audio visual or other material appearing on or emanating to and/or from EA Services, as well as the design and appearance of our websites. All Content--with the exception of third party content discussed below in Section 6--is owned by EA or its affiliates, subsidiaries, licensors or suppliers. Content includes user-generated Content ("UGC"). UGC includes but is not limited to Account personas, forum posts, chat posts, profile content and any other Content contributed by users to EA Services. EA Content and UGC collectively shall be referred to as "Content." EA does not pre-screen all UGC and does not endorse, approve, or prescreen any UGC that you and other users may contribute to EA Services. You bear the entire risk of the completeness, accuracy or usefulness of Content found on EA Services.

EA reserves the right (but has no obligation except as required by law) to remove, block, edit, move or disable UGC for any reason, including when EA determines that UGC violates these terms. The decision to remove UGC or other Content at any time is in EA's sole and final discretion. To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, EA does not assume any responsibility or liability for UGC or for removal of, UGC or any failure to or delay in removing, UGC or other Content.

You are solely responsible for your UGC and may be held liable for UGC that you post.

1. 
   
   

The first thing EA does here is describe a definition of “Content” as owned by them. The second thing they do is establish a definition of “UGC” or “User Generated Content”. UGC is described as your profile, online persona, forum posts, chat posts and any other UGC contributed to EA Services.

So any pictures, music, level designs, game design documents, absolutely anything you put forth to be displayed through an EA Service is UGC. Even that noodle art of your grandmother. Here's where EA puts out their hands:

7. Contributing UGC to EA Services; License Grant to EA and Others

When you contribute UGC to an EA Service, you expressly grant to EA and its licensors a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, complete, sub-licensable and irrevocable right to quote, re-post, publish, use, adapt, translate, archive, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, syndicate, license, print, sublicense, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the UGC, or any portion thereof, in any manner or form and in any medium or forum, whether now known or hereafter devised, without notice, payment or attribution of any kind to you or any third party. You grant EA and its licensors all licenses, consents and clearances to enable EA and its licensors to use such UGC for such purposes. You waive and agree not to assert any moral or similar rights you may have in such UGC.

If the EA Service on which you contribute UGC permits other users to access and use that UGC as part of the EA Service, then you also grant all other users of the relevant EA Service the right to use, copy, modify, display, perform, create derivative works from, and otherwise communicate and distribute your UGC on or through the relevant EA Service without further notice, attribution or compensation to you.

1. 
   
   

They declare all UGC to be free game upon arrival within the confines of any service they provide. If you agree to the Terms of Service you just gave EA the right to use that homemade song you posted on their forums and possibly profit from it. Just how Facebook owns all the rights anything you post there. Oh, wait, was I not suppose to say that?

Try this on for size. BF3 has been said to be getting mod tools. What are the majority of the mods going to be? Maps for multiplay. Wait, isn't multiplayer a service provided by EA through Origin? What about those maps containing custom models and textures. EA could if they wanted to, repackage those maps as DLC. Even use those assests in new games and sell peoples own work back to them. Without compensation. Without due credit and without notification.

This by their definition applies to the new SimCity due in 2013. So Maxis has said the game will be getting mod tools. Meaning “User Generated Content” is abound. This game is also suppose to be always connected to a server, meaning an EA Service. Therefore any UGC for that game is up for grabs as well. What about the content already up for The Sims3 on the exchange.

Section six of the ToS is ironiclly talks about copy rights, trademarks, and copyright infringement within the UGC. So forget that skirmish in a Toys “R” Us cause EA can ban your account, meaning no more multiplay access. This also applies to the forums.

So is EA trying to destroy the possiblity of long standing communities surrounding these games? Do they not want people to find a common interest in creating content without screwing them more then they already have.

If done right this could benefit the gaming community as a whole. What budding teen modder wouldn't want a developer to approach them about using there assests in a game. Done right it could bring down the cost of games. Done right it could bring the community closer, it could bring developers, publishers and gamers together under one united interest just like Kickstarter is attempting. It's stuff like this that makes Kickstarter necessary.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

If they repackage mods, I hope they do indeed run some quality assurance. Of course no one would need to pay for them either way. Creators would release their mods free so unless EA fixes a wonderful but buggy mod and released that as DLC, then those mods would need to be without a price.

  Edited April 21, 2012 by OcramSeattle  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

"Fiat lux". But there was none, and all were confined in the great darkness forever.

[LivingInThePast 364]

...and since the "single player" version still is connected to Origin, even if you made something for your own benefit, it's also EA's. Scary!

[Ocram's Razr 963]

1. Mods in Planet Offer was suggested as submitting 3DsMax buildings of the proper scale to Monte Cristo then MC redistributing them in a free update or optional DLC.

2. Fiats are rather good now and their luxury sports car line is Ferrari.

3. Hopefully the best solution will come to pass.

4. Technically, Sims Pay Sites are Illegal and it is legal to redistribute them without the user generated DRM.

I now feel stupid for not catching the biblical quote.

  Edited April 22, 2012 by OcramSeattle  

[Shark7 118]

Why does this image of an Orwellian future where the corporations (IE Big Brother) own everything you will ever create or imagine? This TOS agreement you posted here is about as close to that as it can be, tbh.

[LivingInThePast 364]

1. Mods in Planet Offer was suggested as submitting 3DsMax buildings of the proper scale to Monte Cristo then MC redistributing them in a free update or optional DLC.

2. Fiats are rather good now and their luxury sports car line is Ferrari.

3. Hopefully the best solution will come to pass.

4. Technically, Sims Pay Sites are Illegal and it is legal to redistribute them without the user generated DRM.

"Fiat lux" means "let there be light", which makes Nonny's post have more sense.