A few questions about city planning

[Floating Pants 1]

Coming back to this brilliant game after installing a few mods, but this time I don't really want to quit. I've built extravagant cities in the past: with upwards of 50,000 population (on a medium grid), high tech industry, 85% medium and high wealth, and tons of other cool stuff. I've downloaded quite a few good mods, some I'm impressed with and some that could be better, and now I'm really just in the mood to unleash my game. If you fell intimidated by all my questions, just answer a few please.

1: Traffic planning.

My cities in the past have had traffic problems being the biggest annoyance. I tend to lean towards avenues the most, due to their convenience and simplicity in planning. But, I've looked at a few screenshots that utilize other things: Highways, 1-way-roads, elevated rails, and even monorails. I've never really used these much, partially because of their expense, and partially because I honestly cannot understand how to utilize them effectively. I need some advice on this, and a few questions upfront.

Do you plan where you'll build you avenues, 1-way roads, etc from the start or do you just experiment one you need it? I hate watching my buildings get torn up because I have to expand a road into where they are (which is why I use subways more), but it is a good idea to kill a few buildings to fix some more?

How do one-way-roads actually work? When should I use them?

Where should I build my highways? I know that a road cannot be connected to them so I can't just run over my vital avenues. Are they even worth the cost they take to build?

When are elevated rails even an option over subways or monorails?

2. Other transportation

Seaports, ferries, marinas, how necessary is all this? I sometimes find my ferries to be at drastically low usage, are they simply negligible?

How useful are passenger trains? Or freight trains? Should I keep them even when my city gets really big?

When should I first build an airport?

3: Managing industry.

I tend to build farms in the birth of my cities. I dislike how the over expansion of dirty & manufacturing sectors gives your city a Detroit style appeal, and all the pollution along with it. Is it always better to build your farms as tiny as possible? Do they provide the same jobs/freight/pollution as large farms? (Also, on a side note, a mod giving better farm aesthetics would be cool)

When is the best time to start building high tech industries? How can I expand high tech industry more? On some occasions, I'll build a small lot reserved for high tech and tear down any industrial/manufacturing buildings that pop up there. Is this a good idea? (or is there a mod that reserves industrial plots for high tech...)

How bad is bad air pollution? I know it lowers desirability, but is it smarter to build natural gas power plants over coal?

4: High wealth population and money managing

Getting wealthy sims hasn't exactly been a struggle for me in the past, but I'm just wondering, what triggers their appearance? How can I balance the amount of $$ commercial jobs versus my $$ residents?

Is having good health/education very necessary to having high wealth citizens? Should I build those museums, colleges, high schools, and universities?

How balanced should my budget be? Should I try to keep it above a set amount, or just be borderline broke with a growing city? Is +2000$ a month good at a 40,000 pop or so city?

When should I not build the casinos, military bases, etc?

Yeah, that may be a bit lengthy, but that's all I can summon up at the moment. I might come up with more questions later. So, for those as eager to answer as I am to ask, go ahead. For others, any link to an online guide of SC4 would be appreciated as well, thanks!

[eggman111 8]

I'll go through your post and answer what I can. This is all based on my experience with the game so far, so hopefully it's helpful. I'm still learning things about this game, so if anyone feels the need to correct me, go ahead. My answers are in bold.

Coming back to this brilliant game after installing a few mods, but this time I don't really want to quit. I've built extravagant cities in the past: with upwards of 50,000 population (on a medium grid), high tech industry, 85% medium and high wealth, and tons of other cool stuff. I've downloaded quite a few good mods, some I'm impressed with and some that could be better, and now I'm really just in the mood to unleash my game. If you fell intimidated by all my questions, just answer a few please.

1: Traffic planning.

My cities in the past have had traffic problems being the biggest annoyance. I tend to lean towards avenues the most, due to their convenience and simplicity in planning. But, I've looked at a few screenshots that utilize other things: Highways, 1-way-roads, elevated rails, and even monorails. I've never really used these much, partially because of their expense, and partially because I honestly cannot understand how to utilize them effectively. I need some advice on this, and a few questions upfront.

Do you plan where you'll build you avenues, 1-way roads, etc from the start or do you just experiment one you need it? I hate watching my buildings get torn up because I have to expand a road into where they are (which is why I use subways more), but it is a good idea to kill a few buildings to fix some more?

I like to do some planning from the start. I may zone an extra tile (for example, 4 deep where you later want 3 - use the control key to help you) on one side of a road so that I can expand it to an avenue later. Demolishing buildings isn't bad for your city. While it's something to be avoided in real life, the game actually handles it quite well. When you demolish a building, it generally causes demand to jump for that type, so a similar building is likely to pop up afterward. Also, if you add capacity to your roads, it will bring more traffic, which will then increase commercial desirability. The end result is that tearing down some buildings can actually give you more population than before you start, due to the benefits of additional infrastructure.

How do one-way-roads actually work? When should I use them?

This depends on whether or not you have the NAM (Network Addon Mod) installed. Without the NAM, one-way roads have simply double the capacity of regular roads. Two one-way roads in opposite directions have the same capacity as a two roads or an avenue, with the added benefit that traffic is directed more efficiently. With the NAM, one-way roads have an added speed and capacity benefit over regular roads (by 50%), to simulate the real-life efficiencies they bring. I like to use them in my downtown cores so that I can get a lot of traffic to a skyscraper with many jobs.

Where should I build my highways? I know that a road cannot be connected to them so I can't just run over my vital avenues. Are they even worth the cost they take to build?

This one's up to you. I like to build highways as more of a ring road or inter-city connector. You can criss-cross your city with highways or never build a single one. They do have huge capacities, though, so if you want a mega-city with people commuting in from the suburbs, it's a good way to move a lot of people. With the RHW (Real Highway Mod) installed, you can make even better highways.

When are elevated rails even an option over subways or monorails?

Elevated rail is cheaper than the other two to build. It also has a lower maintenance cost in the NAM (not sure about in the vanilla game). The NAM gives you the option of elevated rail over road, which gives you the same space-saving advantage as a subway. Again, this one depends on the style of city you want to make.

2. Other transportation

Seaports, ferries, marinas, how necessary is all this? I sometimes find my ferries to be at drastically low usage, are they simply negligible?

Seaports help out industry because it provides a freight sink. This can help you build industry close to the middle of a tile. There are also demand cap benefits if I recall correctly, which means industry can grow more in your city.

Ferries are useful where it isn't practical or cost-effective to build a bridge. Due to the way the game works, ferries provide instantaneous transportation. The main disadvantage with ferries is that it's easy to create the endless commuter loop (search elsewhere on this site to learn more about that).

Marinas provide desirability benefits and a small demand cap relief. You don't need them, but they will help your city grow.

How useful are passenger trains? Or freight trains? Should I keep them even when my city gets really big?

I find passenger trains useful because they're the cheapest way to move a lot of people. It depends on the style of city you want to build. Freight trains are like seaports in that they keep freight trucks off the roads, which can help some with traffic congestion.

When should I first build an airport?

I don't build an airport until an advisor tells me to, but you can do it as long as you can support the monthly cost. Airports provide commercial cap relief, so they can help in a city where you want some big commercial skyscrapers. I like the AC Functional Airports mod because it gives you more options to build airports with smaller populations or less available land.

3: Managing industry.

I tend to build farms in the birth of my cities. I dislike how the over expansion of dirty & manufacturing sectors gives your city a Detroit style appeal, and all the pollution along with it. Is it always better to build your farms as tiny as possible? Do they provide the same jobs/freight/pollution as large farms? (Also, on a side note, a mod giving better farm aesthetics would be cool)

Farms actually give more jobs per tile when you build large ones, because the buildings tend to have fewer jobs per tile than the crops. Keep in mind that each tile provides jobs, not just the building, even though the game isn't really clear about that.

I use the SPAM (SimPeg Agricultural Mod) for more realistic and more aesthetically pleasing farms. Seach for it on this site or on SimPeg. You won't regret it.

When is the best time to start building high tech industries? How can I expand high tech industry more? On some occasions, I'll build a small lot reserved for high tech and tear down any industrial/manufacturing buildings that pop up there. Is this a good idea? (or is there a mod that reserves industrial plots for high tech...)

High tech just comes when there's demand for it. You need highly educated sims and low pollution for it to grow. It will grow next to most manufacturing industry, but generally not dirty. Parks in industrial areas help attract high-tech industry. As a side note, I tend to tax dirty industry to 20% from the get-go so that it doesn't grow (you need to let the simulator run for a bit with high taxes without having any medium or high density industrial zoned to ensure this).

How bad is bad air pollution? I know it lowers desirability, but is it smarter to build natural gas power plants over coal?

Air pollution doesn't affect dirty industry and low-wealth sims will still move into it, but if you want higher wealth sims or jobs, you'll need to get rid of air pollution in those areas. Sometimes I just put some coal plans in the corner of my city, far away from everything else, so it doesn't bother anyone.

4: High wealth population and money managing

Getting wealthy sims hasn't exactly been a struggle for me in the past, but I'm just wondering, what triggers their appearance? How can I balance the amount of $ commercial jobs versus my $ residents?

They need education and health care, plus, of course, jobs. I usually try to use a progressive tax system to balance out sims and jobs. I still haven't gotten this fully figured out. It's one of the tricks of the game.

Is having good health/education very necessary to having high wealth citizens? Should I build those museums, colleges, high schools, and universities?

Simply put, yes.

How balanced should my budget be? Should I try to keep it above a set amount, or just be borderline broke with a growing city? Is +2000$ a month good at a 40,000 pop or so city?

You don't need to run massive surpluses by any means. I usually lower taxes if I'm making that much money, to help attract sims of a certain type.

When should I not build the casinos, military bases, etc?

These affect desirability (generally negatively) around them, so if you have room to spare, go for it. A little research on these will help you decide. It really depends on what kind of city you want to build.

Yeah, that may be a bit lengthy, but that's all I can summon up at the moment. I might come up with more questions later. So, for those as eager to answer as I am to ask, go ahead. For others, any link to an online guide of SC4 would be appreciated as well, thanks!

Cheers!

[Floating Pants 1]

Mhm... My current mods right now are the NAM, SAM, RAM, NWM, NDEX, BSC Mega Props, realistic water, and a slope mod. (I understand that very many of those probably overlap in purposes, lol)

I like to do some planning from the start. I may zone an extra tile (for example, 4 deep where you later want 3 - use the control key to help you) on one side of a road so that I can expand it to an avenue later. Demolishing buildings isn't bad for your city. While it's something to be avoided in real life, the game actually handles it quite well. When you demolish a building, it generally causes demand to jump for that type, so a similar building is likely to pop up afterward. Also, if you add capacity to your roads, it will bring more traffic, which will then increase commercial desirability. The end result is that tearing down some buildings can actually give you more population than before you start, due to the benefits of additional infrastructure.

Ah. That's a good idea. Probably better than mine right now at least which is leaving one side of a road blank so I can fill the other side once I choose to build the avenue. I'll probably try that now, unless I get some massive skyscraper on the side of a road. Also, I think I can recall zoning a few 4 tile commercial zones that would never have buildings move in... Do the 4 tiles reduce desirability?

This depends on whether or not you have the NAM (Network Addon Mod) installed. Without the NAM, one-way roads have simply double the capacity of regular roads. Two one-way roads in opposite directions have the same capacity as a two roads or an avenue, with the added benefit that traffic is directed more efficiently. With the NAM, one-way roads have an added speed and capacity benefit over regular roads (by 50%), to simulate the real-life efficiencies they bring. I like to use them in my downtown cores so that I can get a lot of traffic to a skyscraper with many jobs.

Hm... But side by side one-way roads are cheaper than avenues... Should I just start building those side by side instead of avenues now, then?

This one's up to you. I like to build highways as more of a ring road or inter-city connector. You can criss-cross your city with highways or never build a single one. They do have huge capacities, though, so if you want a mega-city with people commuting in from the suburbs, it's a good way to move a lot of people. With the RHW (Real Highway Mod) installed, you can make even better highways.

Sounds like a good plan, especially considering their striking appearances on the region screen.

I use the SPAM (SimPeg Agricultural Mod) for more realistic and more aesthetically pleasing farms. Seach for it on this site or on SimPeg. You won't regret it.

Ooh, those fishies, er, I mean screenshots, look pretty! I'll bite.

High tech just comes when there's demand for it. You need highly educated sims and low pollution for it to grow. It will grow next to most manufacturing industry, but generally not dirty. Parks in industrial areas help attract high-tech industry. As a side note, I tend to tax dirty industry to 20% from the get-go so that it doesn't grow (you need to let the simulator run for a bit with high taxes without having any medium or high density industrial zoned to ensure this).

Parks, supertaxes, got it. I tend to tax the dirty/manufacturing the same at about 12-14%, but I guess giving the manufacturing a break and the dirty a kick in the teeth isn't a bad idea either.

And on all the other answers I didn't respond to... Just pretend I said "thanks!"

[Kirkland22 5]

I tend to tax the dirty/manufacturing the same at about 12-14%, but I guess giving the manufacturing a break and the dirty a kick in the teeth isn't a bad idea either.

Manufacturing industry should definitely be given a break; I don't recommend taxing it out of the city like I might for dirty industry. Manufacturing industry is quite separate from dirty industry in my opinion – while it produces some pollution, it doesn't give off near as much as dirty industry. Plus, manufacturing is a great way to get jobs in your city if you're in a bind and cannot successfully manipulate commercial's demand in your favor. It probably won't provide jobs for high-wealth residents, but it can definitely fulfill jobs for low and medium wealth residents. Manufacturing requires very little to move in and has decent benefit. Dirty industry, on the other hand, should definitely be taxed high in my opinion and their development should be discouraged. Too much pollution (air and water) and too little benefit. The only good thing that I've noticed is that once you raise taxes on them insanely, they almost never move out like residential or commercial would – they just seem to suffer through the increase in taxes. So, then again, it may be a good strategy to place certain sectors of dirty industry in your city (in places away from your commercial and residential development) before increasing taxes on them – if you have steady numbers coming in from dirty industry, it may help you if your monthly income is beginning to get in the red.

On the other topics discussed, I second most of what has already been said.

[Original182 0]

I tend to tax the dirty/manufacturing the same at about 12-14%, but I guess giving the manufacturing a break and the dirty a kick in the teeth isn't a bad idea either.

Plus, manufacturing is a great way to get jobs in your city if you're in a bind and cannot successfully manipulate commercial's demand in your favor. It probably won't provide jobs for high-wealth residents, but it can definitely fulfill jobs for low and medium wealth residents. Manufacturing requires very little to move in and has decent benefit. Dirty industry, on the other hand, should definitely be taxed high in my opinion and their development should be discouraged. Too much pollution (air and water) and too little benefit.

Actually I have seen some high wealth residents go work at manufacturing industries. But I cannot remember them going to work at the high tech industries.

High wealth residents prefer to work in commercial buildings.

So I think having manufacturing industries is important to at least provide the choosy high wealth residents with jobs. They are very difficult to keep employed.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Be careful with the SPAM. Do not download the farm controller as it conflicts with the NAM. Everything works fine without it.

As far a planning is concerned, I usually start out with a pair of crossed streets or roads and go from there. Occasionally, if I am planning to build a very large downtown, I will open with an avenue, sometimes a pair of them crossing or a roundabout.

The time to build an airport is when it is requested.

My most profitable cities (my goal for a city is profit) are those that just grew in response to demands and the warnings on the dashboard panel. I don't put down anything before its time.

[Floating Pants 1]

I tend to tax the dirty/manufacturing the same at about 12-14%, but I guess giving the manufacturing a break and the dirty a kick in the teeth isn't a bad idea either.

Manufacturing industry should definitely be given a break; I don't recommend taxing it out of the city like I might for dirty industry. Manufacturing industry is quite separate from dirty industry in my opinion – while it produces some pollution, it doesn't give off near as much as dirty industry. Plus, manufacturing is a great way to get jobs in your city if you're in a bind and cannot successfully manipulate commercial's demand in your favor. It probably won't provide jobs for high-wealth residents, but it can definitely fulfill jobs for low and medium wealth residents. Manufacturing requires very little to move in and has decent benefit. Dirty industry, on the other hand, should definitely be taxed high in my opinion and their development should be discouraged. Too much pollution (air and water) and too little benefit. The only good thing that I've noticed is that once you raise taxes on them insanely, they almost never move out like residential or commercial would – they just seem to suffer through the increase in taxes. So, then again, it may be a good strategy to place certain sectors of dirty industry in your city (in places away from your commercial and residential development) before increasing taxes on them – if you have steady numbers coming in from dirty industry, it may help you if your monthly income is beginning to get in the red.

On the other topics discussed, I second most of what has already been said.

How much dirty industry are we talking before we load on the taxes?

Be careful with the SPAM. Do not download the farm controller as it conflicts with the NAM. Everything works fine without it.

I got the SPAM. Didn't get the farm controller, thanks for pointing that out.

As far a planning is concerned, I usually start out with a pair of crossed streets or roads and go from there. Occasionally, if I am planning to build a very large downtown, I will open with an avenue, sometimes a pair of them crossing or a roundabout.

Alright. It sure seems like a lot of the screenshots on here require a lot more precise planning...

My most profitable cities (my goal for a city is profit) are those that just grew in response to demands and the warnings on the dashboard panel. I don't put down anything before its time.

I'll keep that in mind; I have a tendency to build the big city feel before its time.

[Kirkland22 5]

How much dirty industry are we talking before we load on the taxes?

It varies based on several factors. If you're using the small city lot, you don't want a giant dirty industry sector encroaching onto the space you could utilize for residential and commercial. Likewise, if you're using a big city lot, you'd probably want a lot more than just a simple 10x10 dirty industry zoned sector since you've got so much space. It also depends on how much dirty industry you want to have the displeasure of glaring upon the nasty eyesore every time you open up your city. Maybe if your city lot has a section of mountains, you can place the dirty industry up on top of those mountains and leave the juicy valley for commercial and residential growth. Definitely want to cordon off that dirty industry from affecting desirability.

What I did with my most successful city was zone two or three approximately 20x20 sectors for dirty industry to build on and I placed them in the corners of the city. After they were almost fully occupied, I raised dirty industry's taxes to almost 20.0%, their demand went shooting down, then I started zoning places elsewhere in the city for manufacturing industry and high-tech (it's important to make sure you wait until dirty industry occupies the allotted zones and then raise its taxes before you zone anything for high-tech or manufacturing in the rest of your city [dirty industry will gladly take those spaces over too you know]).

Hope this helped in some way – it's all from my personal experiences.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I have a tax policy that might give you some ideas.

When I start a city, I leave everything at default, and I generally build farms if there is no coastline, but otherwise I build a seaport medium density industry adjacent which usually sprouts I-D initially. I always set up a commercial buffer between the industry and the residential pods so that the residential is not butted up to the industrial pod. (There is an exception to this if you zone high-density residential and get tenements.)

After four years (at least) I set the taxes for I-D to 20% and being a benevolent god set i-Ag to 7%. The effect is to harvest the I-D while it is slowly replaced by I-M. After the city is making a good profit, I start decreasing everyone else's taxes by 0.2% occasionally as the spirit moves me. Usually when I am making what I consider to be excess profit. This gives a little lift to demand, and makes the action a little hotter. Right now my biggest city's taxes are running around 8.4% and I am still clearing over 1,000/month.

  Edited December 13, 2011 by A Nonny Moose