Deadly Riots Rock London

[Jamesrules90 133]

I don't see how riots are similar to gang violence since Gangs normally end up killing themselves. If they really wanted help with getting rid of riots countries like Libya, China, Yemen and Greece might be more (controversial) help.

[jacksunny 741]

Exactly.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Los Angeles has riots?

I guess our media (British) doesn't cover that kind of thing. What kind of things do people in Los Angeles riot about and how do they deal with it?

I have never heard of a riot happening in LA. That is why I thought the story seemed weird. LA does have gangs though, so I don't know if London figures they could learn how to deal with the riots by learning how LA deals with gangs.

L.A. had a few riots several years ago before they cleaned up their police force. Several of their "finest" were caught on camera brutalizing suspects.

[Jamesrules90 133]

L.A. had a few riots several years ago before they cleaned up their police force. Several of their "finest" were caught on camera brutalizing suspects.

That doesn't sound good. Although everywhere has police corruption and at one time the head of the MET police said that the Met police was dangerously corrupt.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Back on topic, London is looking to get advice from the city of Los Angeles on how to deal with gangs (according to Global)

Isn't that like the pot asking the kettle how to turn off the gas?

Will Midnight basketball be popular in britian?

[Jamesrules90 133]

I think we will have midnight Cricket. Cricket is far more sophisticated *sips tea*

[Frdm920 50]

5 dead, 3 from Birmingham, 2 from London (Croydon and Ealing)

The rioters and looters include: an 11-year-old girl, a 17-year-old dancer, a chef, a teaching assisstant and an army recruit...

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

L.A. had a few riots several years ago before they cleaned up their police force. Several of their "finest" were caught on camera brutalizing suspects.

That doesn't sound good. Although everywhere has police corruption and at one time the head of the MET police said that the Met police was dangerously corrupt.

The actual statement was Institutionally Racist which is different from corrupt. The Met Police have done lots over the years to address that issue.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

5 dead, 3 from Birmingham, 2 from London (Croydon and Ealing)

The rioters and looters include: an 11-year-old girl, a 17-year-old dancer, a chef, a teaching assisstant and an army recruit...

Interesting roll call. I wonder how many will wind up in the Central Criminal Court? A good many, I hope. The 11-year old girl needs to be examined and perhaps seconded to a youth facility. The rest are just common criminals.

[Timmystwin 201]

There are photos of 11 yr olds nicking vodka and alcopops. This is kind of sad because although theyve been photographed full face, theyve not been found yet.

  Edited August 12, 2011 by Timmystwin  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

There are photos of 11 yr olds nicking vodka and alcopops. This is kind of sad because although theyve been photographed full face, theyve not been found yet.

Alcohol poisoning is a kind of Darwin award and probably would remove them from the gene pool before they had a chance to spread.

[x493x 446]

There are photos of 11 yr olds nicking vodka and alcopops. This is kind of sad because although theyve been photographed full face, theyve not been found yet.

Alcohol poisoning is a kind of Darwin award and probably would remove them from the gene pool before they had a chance to spread.

I think that there are bigger problems in London that kids sipping a drink. That's why they haven't been arrested, kids drink all the time (atleast it seems), get the looters and now murderers instead.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I think that there are bigger problems in London that kids sipping a drink. That's why they haven't been arrested, kids drink all the time (atleast it seems), get the looters and now murderers instead.

In theory, at least, each person convicted of taking part in the riot could also be charged with murder. Not likely to happen, but it certainly would help with prison construction.

[Jamesrules90 133]

I think you would need do many prisons if everybody was convicted with murder you would end up having to build work camps so they could afford them and even shipping them off to other countries.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I think you would need do many prisons if everybody was convicted with murder you would end up having to build work camps so they could afford them and even shipping them off to other countries.

An act of Parliament could eliminate the problem by reinstitution of capital punishment. Rope is cheaper than walls and bars.

[Jelendria 3]

Well, even though people died from the riots, not everyone involved in the riots were involved in death so under US law, it would be impossible to convict all the rioters even if we knew that they participated in the riots.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

I think you would need do many prisons if everybody was convicted with murder you would end up having to build work camps so they could afford them and even shipping them off to other countries.

An act of Parliament could eliminate the problem by reinstitution of capital punishment. Rope is cheaper than walls and bars.

Sadly parliment doesn't have the power the re-institute capital punishment. We would have to leave the EU and recind the European Bill of Human Rights first. Most people would like that but parliment will not do it.

[Frdm920 50]

Just detain them 'At Her Majesty's Pleasure'. I assume you can still do that as I've found no evidence to the contrary.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, even though people died from the riots, not everyone involved in the riots were involved in death so under US law, it would be impossible to convict all the rioters even if we knew that they participated in the riots.

Well, British law is different, but the complications of instituting captial punishment means leaving the EU among other things. I do like the idea of an oubliette (detained at HM pleasure).

On the other hand, leaving the EU may not be all bad. It is in rather sad shape, and doesn't seem to ever been a union. Since the U.K. is not on the Euro, it shouldn't be too much of a blow. Just passports required again. Trade with the commonwealth would probably increase which would be good for us.

It is not that long ago that Britain ran its own ship.

  Edited August 14, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Well, even though people died from the riots, not everyone involved in the riots were involved in death so under US law, it would be impossible to convict all the rioters even if we knew that they participated in the riots.

Well, British law is different, but the complications of instituting captial punishment means leaving the EU among other things. I do like the idea of an oubliette (detained at HM pleasure).

On the other hand, leaving the EU may not be all bad. It is in rather sad shape, and doesn't seem to ever been a union. Since the U.K. is not on the Euro, it shouldn't be too much of a blow. Just passports required again. Trade with the commonwealth would probably increase which would be good for us.

It is not that long ago that Britain ran its own ship.

Lots of people would like to see it that way again. It would save us £60,000,000 per day as a bonus.

[chicah 20]

When they were rioting in the Arab world, we called it a victory for democracy. When they rioted in France in 1789, which ended in the French revolution, the history books call it one of the most important events throughout our modern history. In those cases, the military and the state were the “bad guys”. How come they’re not now?

Riots are not always bad. Riots are usually a sign that peaceful means don’t work.

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s horrible that civilians died in the Britain riots. I also think the rioters have turned their rage the wrong way. Always kick upwards, aim for the ones in power. If they did THAT, they’d show the politicians they were serious. The people should never be afraid of the government, the government should be afraid of the people. That’s the strength of a riot: It shows that the politicians still have something to fear from the people. That’s a good thing, the politicians should never sit too comfortably.

I believe one should always fight with peaceful means, where this is possible. I believe this is possible in most cases, in a democratic country. But sometimes… Okay, I’ll not go into an analysis of British politics and “what would Marx do”, I’ll just end with this:

The government and the wealthy rob you of your money every day. Yet you do nothing. But when your own people start acting the way your “superiors” have done since the beginning of time, you start screaming for police and military. You ask the very system you should be fighting to protect you. Ironic.

When the politicians took money from the poor to “save the economy” and the next day decreased the tax for the rich, why weren’t you ALL out in the streets? When they stole from the students and the economy was crashing while the bosses of the major companies gave themselves bonuses… Why weren’t you shouting for the police and the military then? Explained in a childish way: This is about the haves vs. the have-nots. And trust me, the haves are the bad guys.

[Jelendria 3]

Current events are getting as exciting as the movies!

[Easy Bakes 253]

Well, even though people died from the riots, not everyone involved in the riots were involved in death so under US law, it would be impossible to convict all the rioters even if we knew that they participated in the riots.

Well, British law is different, but the complications of instituting capital punishment means leaving the EU among other things. I do like the idea of an oubliette (detained at HM pleasure).

On the other hand, leaving the EU may not be all bad. It is in rather sad shape, and doesn't seem to ever been a union. Since the U.K. is not on the Euro, it shouldn't be too much of a blow. Just passports required again. Trade with the commonwealth would probably increase which would be good for us.

It is not that long ago that Britain ran its own ship.

Texas executes more prisoners then any one, yet our prisons are still full.

[Frdm920 50]

@ A Nonny Moose

Passports are still required to enter continental Europe from the UK and Ireland as neither of those countries are part of the Schengen zone (which is seperate from the EU). Leaving the EU would instead mean that visas would be required again.

@ Chicah

The reason that the military and the cops are not the 'bad guys' in this situation is because of the motivation (or lack of) behind the riots. The current riots in England, regardless of what either side of politics say have very little to do with Government policies. Whilst the original riots in Tottenham were partially motivated by the death of Mark Duggan in an apparent firefight with police, that quickly faded into the background. The riots are basically now about bored teenagers deciding to take advantage of the fact the police are stretched thin and go out and wreck havoc, looting and causing property damage for no other reason that they feel like it (or as one lady apparently claimed 'getting our taxes back' if she actually paid taxes, I'd be amazed). So basically, wheras the Arab Spring and the French revolution, had resentment of the oppressive governments and numerous other factors as justification, the current English riots are entirely about materialistic greed.

TL;DR: There's no social justification for these riots, it's just people taking advantage of the chaos to steal stuff.

[chicah 20]

@ A Nonny Moose

Passports are still required to enter continental Europe from the UK and Ireland as neither of those countries are part of the Schengen zone (which is seperate from the EU). Leaving the EU would instead mean that visas would be required again.

@ Chicah

The reason that the military and the cops are not the 'bad guys' in this situation is because of the motivation (or lack of) behind the riots. The current riots in England, regardless of what either side of politics say have very little to do with Government policies. Whilst the original riots in Tottenham were partially motivated by the death of Mark Duggan in an apparent firefight with police, that quickly faded into the background. The riots are basically now about bored teenagers deciding to take advantage of the fact the police are stretched thin and go out and wreck havoc, looting and causing property damage for no other reason that they feel like it (or as one lady apparently claimed 'getting our taxes back' if she actually paid taxes, I'd be amazed). So basically, wheras the Arab Spring and the French revolution, had resentment of the oppressive governments and numerous other factors as justification, the current English riots are entirely about materialistic greed.

TL;DR: There's no social justification for these riots, it's just people taking advantage of the chaos to steal stuff.

See, that's exactly what your government WANTS you to think. Like I said, the problem with this riot is that they're turning on their peers instead of their superiors, and I have no doubt some of them are doing it just for fun. But I know myself, through aqcuaintances, that there are quite a few of them fighting for political reasons - they just get no place in the media who wants to portray all of those people as raving maniacs. And no matter their motivation, riots like this don't just HAPPEN. When the economy is crashing, when there are no jobs, when you suddenly can't afford education anymore - it's much easier to fall into a sort of nihilistic apathy and just don't care that other people suffer from your actions. Believe what you want, everything is connected. This couldn't have happened anywhere, there was a REASON that it happened in England, at THIS time.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Here is a little more sauce for this goose. You can see that both of these idiots don't have the sense of illegitimate geese.

The courts have given these jokers good reason to laugh.

@chicah: Population pressure in the global village and the economic downturn caused by certain greedy elements in 2008 have made it very difficult for advantaged youth to find suitable employment in overcrowded urban jungles. I imaging that this is not so in Norway, eh?

I am beginning to think that the people heap concept is beginning to show its frayed edges more and more. Concentration of workers for industrial purposes seems to have become an obsolescent concept since many industries have fled the tax-burdens of urban domicile. You must have heard that idle hands are the devil's workshop.

On top of everything else, we have all this advertising in the media for all these nice things that are out of the reach of many, but the media are supposed to be the circuses of the masses. The state hasn't started handing out bread as yet, but things are looking very 100 CE with respect to the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Since population control is "unthinkable" in most countries, this can only get worse until the ultimate collapse of civil authority.

As for the French Revolution, the problem there was mostly the disconnect between the rulers and the populace. The rulers would do anything to keep their perquisites, even to the setting up of tax farmers, and starving the people. I don't think any governments in the western world are starving their populace yet.

If you look at what is happening in Syria, this is essentially a parallel situation complete with the Napoleonic solution. ("A little grape would scatter this rabble") Unfortunately for Assad and Co. this doesn't work when the whole populace is involved. With the rest of the world denouncing him, Mr. Assad's days are surely numbered as are Mr. Qaddafi's. One of these days, someone they trust will pot them.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Here

As for the French Revolution, the problem there was mostly the disconnect between the rulers and the populace. The rulers would do anything to keep their perquisites, even to the setting up of tax farmers, and starving the people. I don't think any governments in the western world are starving their populace yet.

If you look at what is happening in Syria, this is essentially a parallel situation complete with the Napoleonic solution. ("A little grape would scatter this rabble") Unfortunately for Assad and Co. this doesn't work when the whole populace is involved. With the rest of the world denouncing him, Mr. Assad's days are surely numbered as are Mr. Qaddafi's. One of these days, someone they trust will pot them.

I thought this was a great show about Revolutionary Era Paris

filthy cities paris

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I thought this was a great show about Revolutionary Era Paris

filthy cities paris

Or you could just read Les Miserables, watch the movie, or go see the Broadway Show. If you are interested in arbitrary abuse of power in monarchist France you could also read The Hunchback of Notre Dame. In both cases the novel is more moving than the motion pictures.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I thought this was a great show about Revolutionary Era Paris

filthy cities paris

Or you could just read Les Miserables, watch the movie, or go see the Broadway Show. If you are interested in arbitrary abuse of power in monarchist France you could also read The Hunchback of Notre Dame. In both cases the novel is more moving than the motion pictures.

Read both of those a long time ago..