Road Top Mass Transit (RTMT) - Development and Support

[CaptCity 4,752]

Sorry to bump.. But I'm just checking in to see if anyone (read Cogeo ) has had and/or figured out the issue with the combo stations mentioned a few posts back. I've tried all I could think of  to try to solve this in my game. Maybe a better question is how have others used these stations successfully - it must be something I'm doing incorrectly. Thanks...

[IGGYMAN 101 1]

Police cars space can be on a Road Top?

[onperser 0]

hi, i am probably posting in the wrong place but i want to get some help with the RTMTV3, any assistance/links appreciated

[z1 566]

Originally posted by: CaptCity

Sorry to bump.. But I'm just checking in to see if anyone (read Cogeo has had and/or figured out the issue with the combo stations mentioned a few posts back. I've tried all I could think of to try to solve this in my game. Maybe a better question is how have others used these stations successfully - it must be something I'm doing incorrectly. Thanks...quote>

Hi CaptCity,

I took over the RTMT project from Cogeo last August. At that time, he told me about the bug you had found (which we have named the CaptCity bug, in your honor , though he hadn't had time to check into it, and wasn't sure to what extent it existed. Over the intervening time, I have verified that it exists just as you described, found the cause, and fixed it. It actually exists in most of the RTMT stations that have subway access. The fixed version of these stations will be included in the RTMT V4 release.

And to Onperser (and others), the best place to support for RTMTV3 is in The RTMT V3 Support Thread, which is part of the (relatively) new RTMT Place, which is where the current RTMT development is focused. I and others on the RTMT Team (yes, there's now a whole team) will be checking here regularly, though.

[CaptCity 4,752]

Hi z,

Originally posted by: z1

Originally posted by: CaptCity

... But I'm just checking in to see if anyone has had and/or figured out the issue with the combo stations mentioned a few posts back.quote>

Hi CaptCity,

I took over the RTMT project from Cogeo last August. At that time, he told me about the bug you had found (which we have named the CaptCity bug, in your honor ... quote>

No way... Really... I'm honored...

Seriously, it's great news that you found a fix. I also found the same issue in other stations while testing, just always thought it was something we'd have to deal with (and the work-around wasn't that major). I have been following your work over at SC4D, and I think I remember a post by Andreas about a bug in most of the combo stations. When I saw it, I was wondering if this was the issue. Again, glad you found the 'cure' and look forward to RTMT V4.

-CaptCity

[kuehmary 0]

I have a problem with the GLR rtmt stations. I can get the rest of the rtmt stops to work but I keep getting a brown box on the GLR. I have read the readme files several times with no luck. Using SC4 dependency scanner and iLive Reader, I apparently do not have the 0x88EDC901 file. Do you know where I can find this?

I have the following props installed (using right-hand version for the US):

RTMTV3_Prop_BusSign_Ninja.dat

RTMTV3_Prop_PhoneBooth_RedShelter.dat

RTMTV3_Prop_TimeTable_RomenAlt.dat

RTMTV3_PropS_BusStop_TfL.dat

RTMTV3_PropS_GLR_ModernShortWhite.dat

RTMTV3_PropS_Subway_LU.dat

[z1 566]

Originally posted by: kuehmary

I have a problem with the GLR rtmt stations. I can get the rest of the rtmt stops to work but I keep getting a brown box on the GLR. I have read the readme files several times with no luck. Using SC4 dependency scanner and iLive Reader, I apparently do not have the 0x88EDC901 file. Do you know where I can find this?

quote>

First, make sure that your Models folder is complete.  If it is, the problem is most likely the RTMTV3_Prop_BusSign_Ninja.dat file, which has a dependency.  You need to download either the Ninja Boulevard Station or the Ninja Boulevard Kiosk from the STEX.  This is detailed in the Readme file.

[kuehmary 0]

Originally posted by: z1

Originally posted by: kuehmary

I have a problem with the GLR rtmt stations. I can get the rest of the rtmt stops to work but I keep getting a brown box on the GLR. I have read the readme files several times with no luck. Using SC4 dependency scanner and iLive Reader, I apparently do not have the 0x88EDC901 file. Do you know where I can find this?

quote>

First, make sure that your Models folder is complete.  If it is, the problem is most likely the RTMTV3_Prop_BusSign_Ninja.dat file, which has a dependency.  You need to download either the Ninja Boulevard Station or the Ninja Boulevard Kiosk from the STEX.  This is detailed in the Readme file.

quote>

I already downloaded the Ninja Boulevard Kiosk station and the Ninja Boulevard station and I still have brown boxes.

[z1 566]

Please post the contents of your Models folder, and we should be able to figure it out from there.

[kuehmary 0]

That was the problem. I had the wrong glr station model in the folder. I put the right one in the folder and the brown boxes disappeared. Thanks for all your help, everyone.

[z1 566]

For this reason, it's good to keep your Models folder fully populated - they don't conflict, as only the ones that are needed are used.  And this way, when you want to customize your props, you only have to change the Props folder, as all the models are already in place.

[z1 566]

I am pleased to announce that RTMT is now NAM Team Certified.  The certification logo will gradually be appearing on screenshots and UI queries over time, and in the case of the UI queries, it will be joined by a form of the RTMT logo.

[Jimmyneutron 0]

can somebody put together a package including all of the dependencies? or is there an easy to follow list out there?

[z1 566]

The main RTMT package is currently the Roadtop Mass Transit V3 Installers.  This has been followed by RTMT Patch V351, which is recommended for everyone, and RTMT Interim T-RAM Stations, for people who have the T-RAM installed.  Only the first package has dependencies, and these exist only when the customization features are used.  When RTMT V4 is released in a while, it will supersede all of these packages, and will have only the NAM as a dependency.

[Jimmyneutron 0]

cool, cheers, I've had all kinds of trouble getting it working. my comp crashed and my hard drive was wiped. Sim city stuff wasnt backed up. I had an older version i think, or some other toad top mass transit mod. When is the new one being released? I might just hold out for that

[z1 566]

Well, RTMT V4 is still a ways away - I wouldn't recommend waiting for it.  But RTMT V3.60 (no, I didn't mention that one in my last message) is due out soon; it will have a number of enhancements, including SAM stations and El over Road stations.  It will also contain the V3.51 patch release, making that one unnecessary.  But unlike V4, it's still an add-on pack.  So I'd recommend installing at least the initial package now, and you can wait or not for the V3.60 release.

[z1 566]

Speaking of RTMT V3.60, I just wanted to let people here know what kind of things they can expect.  Here's a sample of the SAM stations:

[z1 566]

Here's an example of the RTMT El over Road (and Street) stations that are coming in V3.60:

[z1 566]

The first version of RTMT station highlighting is now complete; it will appear as described below in the upcoming V3.60 release.  Here are some pictures showing exactly how it works.  The pictures first show the basic feature at various zooms, and then show some of the new things that can be done with this feature.  The first picture is at Zoom 3:

The most obvious difference between the above picture and the one at the top of the thread is the sheer number of RTMT stations, which is simply a result of the fact that the highlighting feature has now been completed for all of the station types.  (Virtually every station type has a unique sign.)  As mentioned earlier, this means that this feature will work on cities already containing RTMT stations; no bulldozing is necessary.  The reason for the large number of stations in the city is that it was built almost two years ago, and with the traffic simulator I was using at the time, it was necessary to have that many stations for optimal performance.  If I were building this city today, I would be able to get optimal performance with about a quarter of these stations.  Nevertheless, it is useful to see that even with such a large number of stations, the signs don't obscure much of the city.  And of course, they only show up with the city's buildings when one of the the Traffic Volume Views is selected.  Finally, though the signs are the same size as the ones in the picture at the top of this thread, I have managed to make them a bit clearer and sharper.

So this works quite well for Zoom 3, which is a level that many people use for working on their cities at various times.  What about Zoom 2?  The following picture answers that question:

The signs are much smaller and definitely more difficult to read, but reading them is generally possible, at least for the transportation type(s), which is the most important part of the sign.  And even for those signs that are difficult to read, the colors for the transportation types are quite unique, and it's possible to tell what they are rather unambiguously at this level.

Now let's take a look at Zoom 1:

The signs are now definitely too small to read, but once again, the colors let you see unambiguously what type of station is present.  And the mere presence of the signs and the layout of the stations they represent is useful information at this level.

Let's now go back with the higher zoom levels, starting with Zoom 4:

Here, everything about the signs is crystal clear, and you can easily see how they're laid out.  The game's highlighting feature always sets the green component of the sign colors to maximum, so the spectrum available for signs is limited from yellow to cyan.  Here I use the green for background information on the top and bottom of the signs; there's a version of the RTMT logo on top, and the bottom specifies on what type of roadway the station is located.  If the station is more than one square long, its length will be specified after this roadway type, as in "ROAD 2."  The green fields are always in a smaller font than the station fields, and tend to fade into the background in the lower zooms.

The station fields are colored as closely as possible to the standard colors used in the game, given the restrictions I mentioned.  White is used for GLR (tram) stations, to make it easily distinguishable from subway and el rail stations; in the game, the GLR tracks usually run on a background that is at least somewhat white, which is one correspondence that makes this easy to remember.

You may also notice on a road that has GLR stations, sometimes where the "GLR" would appear in white, instead there is a smaller "=GLR=" in green.  This indicates that the station has GLR tracks running  through it, but there is no GLR stop there.  The same convention is used for el rail over road or street RTMT stations.

The signs indicate exactly where the stations are, in the same way that the traffic volume colors indicate where the networks are.  If you were to cut away the part of the buildings directly behind the signs, and keep cutting in a way so that the hole was always directly behind the sign, you would eventually reach the station to which the sign refers.  That's why at the bottom of the first picture in this post, the signs are visible directly over the stations that are not blocked by buildings.

The final picture of the Traffic Volume View is at Zoom 5:

There's not much different here, but you can see where a GLR-in-Avenue becomes visible between buildings, and the two types of stations mentioned above - one with a GLR stop, and one without.  I haven't shown Zoom 6, because it looks essentially like Zoom 5, just with everything bigger.  The letters retain their crispness and clarity at the highest zoom.

That concludes the display of the signs in the Traffic Volume View.  However, they have some other important uses elsewhere.  For example, in the normal view, if you use the query tool, then by moving it around your city, the station signs will light up as you pass over the stations.  Once again, the signs will light up even if there are buildings between you and the stations.  The following picture is an example of this; the cursor is not seen because it is not captured by the Print Screen command.  And whereas the highlighting in the Traffic Volume View sets the green component of all the colors at maximum, the highlighting caused by the query tool sets the blue component to maximum instead.  This also is seen in the following picture.

The query tool is sitting above a station that is located on a one-way road, part of which can be seen in the open higher up in the picture.  The mini-query also appears, containing essentially the same information as the sign.  But the mini-query could not appear without the sign's existence, as otherwise the building blocks access to the station.

What is so useful about being able to see the station's sign in the normal view like this?  The benefit is that you can query the station by querying the sign, even when the station itself cannot be seen.  (This is also true in the Traffic Volume View.)  For example, the following picture shows what would happen when you clicked the query tool when the sign in the previous picture was visible:

A query box appears in the upper left of your screen, containing all the standard information about the station.  But for this new version of RTMT, there's more.  Beneath the first separator line, there's information about each travel type and network used in this particular station.  This information can be very useful in determining not only how well the current station is working, but how it compares to similar stations in the rest of your city, and how well these forms of mass transit are serving your city.  As with the station signs, these new queries work with all existing RTMT stations, as well as any new ones that are constructed.

What else can the station signs do?  They can help you get rid of pesky stations that are hard to find.  For example, let's go back to the previous station, and instead of using the query tool, we'll use the bulldoze tool.  Like the query tool, the bulldoze tool causes individual signs to light up as you pass over them.  However, instead of setting the green or blue components of the sign colors to maximum, the bulldoze tool sets the red to maximum.  This can be seen in the following picture.  Once again, the bulldoze tool itself is not seen because it is a cursor, which is not captured by the Print Screen command.

How do you know that you have the bulldoze tool positioned properly?  This is obviously a very important question, as the Sims will be very upset if you bulldoze one of their skyscrapers by mistake.  Fortunately, the answer is very simple.  If you can see the station sign and the red square underneath it that represents the exact location of the station, as shown in the above picture, that is what will be bulldozed.  The "§80" to the left of the sign is additional confirmation, as it's the bulldoze cost of a transit station, not a skyscraper.

Here's what happens if you click on the bulldoze tool at this point:

The red square immediately disappears; the station is gone.  Since there is no longer any station, the bulldoze tool is now hovering over the building in back of the sign.  As a result, the building turns red, and the bulldoze cost of the building (§3,091) appears.  The red square at the bottom is the base of the building.  Meanwhile, the extra red is no longer added to the sign, which is now seen in its original colors.  (This is the only time when you can see it that way.)  For some reason, the sign hovers motionless for about ten seconds, and then begins to disintegrate, just like a bulldozed building.  This picture was taken in the early stages of disintegration.  The sign continues to disintegrate and fall, until its pieces vanish into thin air.

Now what are we left with?  Let's go to the new Zones view and take a look:

As you can see, there's a hole in the ground where there used to be a station, just two squares away from a still-existing station.  But even though the road is gone, the subway still runs through.  The reason for this is that we demolished the station in the normal view, where subways aren't visible.  If we demolished one of the stations in this new Zones view, the subway piece would be demolished as well, since it's visible.

As a side note, you can see that in the new Zones view, RTMT stations that contain subway stations are visible, and their signs are displayed.  These stations can be bulldozed from this view as well.  But transit stations that don't contain subway stations don't show up in the new Zones view, nor do their signs (although their props are visible).  As a result, they can't be bulldozed from here.  And if they can't be seen in the normal view due to being surrounded by high buildings, the only way to get rid of such stations without tearing down multiple buildings to get to them would be through the use of the new station signs.

You can see that in the new Zones view, all the networks show up, and if you wanted to connect up the one-way road where the station used to be, you could do it here.  But it's not necessary to go into the Zones view to do that.  Let's go back to the normal view for the last picture:

Suppose that we have just finished bulldozing the station, as we did above, and just want to pave over the broken road.  We know it was a one-way road from the (now-vanished) station description, and we can see which direction it went by looking at the actual road that is visible higher up in the picture.  So all we have to do is take the one-way road tool, put it approximately where the station was, and drag it in the direction of the road.  If we guess the position wrong, then either the game will tell us that the position we're trying to pave is already occupied, or else a building that would be demolished would turn red.  At that point, we could abort the paving operation.  But here we happen to have guessed right, and you can see a faint yellow band where I've dragged the one-way road tool.  Once again, the cost that is displayed (in this case, §5) is an excellent indication that I'm just building a road, and not demolishing a building.

So that's it.  All the features shown here will be present in the RTMT V3.60 Add-on Pack, which will be coming out... soon.  Meanwhile, some of you may be wondering, "Well, those signs are great for all of you native English speakers, but what about the rest of us?"  (Although if you're wondering that, you're probably wondering it in a different language.)  This is a point that we take very seriously at RTMT.  We are currently planning to have an alternate set of signs that will use icons instead of words, although it's not clear exactly when that will be ready.  But a lot of people like the signs with words, so we would like to translate them into other languages as well.  Unfortunately, a lot more is involved than with the simple LTEXT translations that are used in other places.  If you would like to help with the translation effort, and have either Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, please send me a PM telling me what language you would like to create signs for, and I'll send you complete instructions, including the necessary base files.

Finally, as you may gather, these signs and queries can be used for stations other than RTMT stations.  After this RTMT release is complete, I'll be making all the tools needed to do this available on the LEX.

[chris0101 8]

Out of curiosity, will it get rid of the need for those interim GLR stations? I noticed that there are signs with GLR underneath them on the transport volume map as well.

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21158

Or will that wait for RTMT v4. Thanks. Great work as always.

[z1 566]

The integration of the T-RAM RTMT stations for roads into the rest of RTMT will require the internal changes to RTMT that are occurring in V4, so that's when it will happen.  The signs you noticed for GLR stations are for GLR-in-Avenue.  However, all the features of my previous post are being integrated into the standalone T-RAM station pack, which will be updated around the time of the V3.60 release, or possibly slightly before then.  The updated T-RAM station pack will also contain several new high definition shelters.  Details will be announced in this thread when this happens.

[rsd6000 8]

sounds nice - its looks cool - its easier to track the station locations

[z1 566]

A major update of the RTMT Interim T-RAM Stations is now available on the STEX.  This update features the following:

• The new high definition (HD) tram shelter by SimFox, which can be seen in this post

from the RTMT Creations board, has been included.

• Shmails' GLR Shelter, Xyloxadoria's GLR shelter, and the SFBT Historic Tram shelter have all been upgraded to HD.  It has been verified that in Zoom 5, all the HD versions of these stations look as good as their SD equivalents.  In Zoom 6, they all look much better.
• The new Station Highlighting and Queries features are now fully implemented for all the stations in this pack.  These features will be implemented for all the remaining RTMT stations with the release of RTMT V3.60.
• All stations have been adjusted slightly so that low platforms show up better.
• Installation of these stations has been simplified.  See the Readme for details.

For those people who have not seen the high definition GLR shelters before, here's a quick look at SimFox's:

Although this shows a GLR-in-Avenue station, the shelter is the same one being release in the T-RAM Stations pack.  The new and updated shelters will be available for GLR-in-Avenue with the release of RTMT V3.60.

[rudric 0]

I have RTMT 3.0 and I want to update. DO i have to delete existing RTMT lots? ANd is the installing made ease now? I hate having tons of different types of RTMT lots/skins just a few of each is enough.

[z1 566]

RTMT V3.50 was released two years ago, and should be completely compatible with v3.0, so that you shouldn't have to bulldoze any lots.  The installing was also made much easier, as the version Roadtop Mass Transit V3 Installers comes with an automateL installer.  However, a lot has happened in the last year in RTMT Land.  There's the RTMT Patch V351, which is pretty essential, as it updates the RTMT capacities for the current NAM traffic simulators, and also contains an important bug fix.  Then there are the RTMT Interim T-RAM Stations, which are very useful if you use T-RAM.  Finally, the RTMT V3.60 add-on pack will be coming out soon, and it will immediately make the V3.51 patch obsolete.  However, as an add-on pack, it will require manual installation (as does the patch), which some people may find a bit complex.  Later on, there will be a fully automatic installer version of RTMT V3.60, which will be much simpler to use.  None of these additions require any bulldozing.  So depending on how soon you want to upgrade, you can install all the files in the links above now, or you can wait for the installer version of RTMT V3.60, which will contain everything except the T-RAM stations.  These will finally be integrated with the rest of RTMT with the release of RTMT V4.0, which will be released as an installer version (at least for Windows).  I would expect the installer version of RTMT V3.60 to be released in the early fall, and RTMT V4.0 later this year.

[z1 566]

Here are some creations by Xyloxadoria that need no introduction:

These Tram to Subway Transitions will be ready to be sent to RTMT's crack team of beta testers    within the next few days, and they will be included in RTMT V3.60.  For those people interested in these transitions without the rest of RTMT, they will be available as a separate download shortly after they clear beta testing.

[bwong 36]

really cool!

[rsd6000 8]

looks nice - the tram to subway is good idea - for example i can have funny WMATA trains travelling along the tram line

[z1 566]

Actually, the subway trains don't come out of the ground. They become trams at the transition.

[rsd6000 8]

Originally posted by: z1

Actually, the subway trains don't come out of the ground. They become trams at the transition.quote>

well yes - true but i can't remember i saw when they came down from elevatad track to tram track