Road Top Mass Transit (RTMT) - Development and Support

[cogeo 960]

@SC4-NL: By "newly-implemented RTMT" I guess you are talking about the Jan 2006 version, the one with the new stations for the GLR-on-Avenue puzzle pieces has not been implemented yet.

Also the term "the city with the RTMT" is not correct, all installed plugins are always loaded into memory, no matter if your city is fully developed or it's empty.

As for your question, I have no reported cases of freezing the game. First of all RTMT is not transit networks, instead it's a set of transit-enabled lots, which in general are not known to freeze the game. But a case of conflict with other plugins might be possible. There is a sort of "registry" of IDs maintained by BSC, aiming at preventing conflicts (which RTMT complies to), but this is only for textures and prop-families. Unfortunately there is no such registry for lot, building, prop, queries, SC4path files etc, and conflicts sometimes occur.

But as said above I haven't heard of conflicts between RTMT and other plugins, maybe w/ something you downloaded/installed/developed recently? Could you please make the following tests:

- Backup your region (copy the region folder somewhere else).

- Open a new (empty) city, put some roads/streets/subway etc and place a good deal of RTMT stations (preferably all 18 types).

- Save your city and exit.

- Open your city again. Does it freeze the game or not?

- If not then it's almost definitely another plugins that causes this.

- If yes then it's a conflict, and we have to find whith which plugin (but pls make the test first).

Just one note, you say that you are having the "GLR in-avenue mod". This is actually a part of the new NAM, not a mod itself. Are you sure you have completely uninstalled the old NAM, as well as some older transit mods like transit bug fix, transit supermod, traffic cop and the like. These cause conflicts with the NAM and have to be removed completely. The newest NAM contains a "Clinitol" file (you will also have to get the utility from SC4D) which will help you locate and remove all those incompatible files.

Also try reinstalling NAM, and choose the options that don't pose significant resources requirements on your computer, eg fewer automata, "better" instead of "perfect" pathfinding etc.

Please let us know the results.

[AcE-cOdEr 1]

Hi everyone, I must apologize for not appearing here for a while (bit busy, summer holidays use to be sooo hard... ;D). I got your mail, cogeo, and I'm now installing the software again so I can complete my translation. If everything goes OK you should get it in your inbox within an hour or two.

Nice project. I'm proud to be contributing to it somehow.

Cheerio!

[AcE-cOdEr 1]

... well, it took me less than I thought. File's already translated and tested, so it should work fine. Check your mail, cogeo!

[cogeo 960]

New progress: Almost everything is now done, including the fixes, the documentation, the MML and the installers. I'm just awaiting the translations to be tested, and I'm going to release it.

The GLR Shelter models are configurable too. You can choose plain or striped platforms by installing/uninstalling an optional plugin.



I would also like to ask the community about the placement of the props for GLR-in-Avenue stations with both GLR and busstops. In the first pic above you can see the bus-sign and timetable props in the middle of the lot. Some players don't like the bussign down the middle of the pedestrian crossing. The alternative is to move them at the corner of the lot (2nd and 3rd) pic but in this case they look cramped, esp if the larger busstop models are chosen (the busstop can't be moved further to the middle of the lot, it's already "touching" the pedestrian crossing). Or maybe from the arrangement in the first pic and move the busstop somewhat more afar and the bussign and timetable closer to the busstop. The bussign will be close to the end of the zebra markings but the props will look cramped again (like the ones in the 2nd and 3rd pic. I can't release these three prop arrangements as options, RTMTV3 already has so many options that many players have a hell of time to install it. 

So which direction should I take?

[Bluebeard 0]

The Corner looks to crowded so stick the sign in the middle.Everything looks awesome so far can't wait for it's release.Thanx Cogeo.

[Meastro444 1]

i second that, stick the sign in the middle

[Andreas Roth 614]

When I was tinkering with the SFBT GLR-in-Avenue station, I also placed the bus stop sign in the middle. It might "interfere" with the zebra crossing, but then again, that one is rather wide, so it's not much of an issue.

[bakercity 270]

I really do not care where you put the sign, because it all looks great.

[Chrisim 44]

I found RTMTV3 just today and think that it is great - for me one of the best from STEX - looking forward to the next version!

A bus sign in the middle of the pedestrian crossing is against all rules of safety - a Sims will walk across the road right against the bus sign, falls and gets killed ... the solution displayed in the second image looks best to me.

Anyway, the reason for my posting is the following question:

Maxis' tollbooths requires one icon only, it can be placed on road, avenue, hwy and grHwy. Any chance to achieve the same for the bus stops? Not to reduce the number of icons - it would be more user-friendly in the game. I would not have to care which type of road it is, less concentration to choose the right icon.

Has somebody figured out how it is done for the Maxis tollbooth?

[cogeo 960]

The new version (V3.50) is on the STEX now (both the ZIP and Installer versions have been updated).

The new features are of course the GLR-in-Avenue stations, MML (for the menu buttons - optional), translations to most SC4-supported languages, CAMpatible capacities (an option as well) and some few prop models. There are propfiles for using gshmails' and Antoine's stations too.

Have fun!

[Jazzmaster 716]

Yes, I saw, and it really BURNS ME UP that I can't use it right now. Not my SC4 PC *blah,blah,blah*, don't have SC4 on this PC *blah,blah,blah*, it's been two weeks and no internet *blah,blah,blah*. Oh well, just something to add to my list of about one-thousand things to do when my SC4 PC FINALLY gets a connection.

-Yoshiisland

[Macmatt 0]

I have a problem with this mod, Whenever I try to build any of the bus stops, I get a parcel graphic instead. Anybody know why? Thanks.

[Zwabberaar 18]

Originally posted by: Macmatt I have a problem with this mod, Whenever I try to build any of the bus stops, I get a parcel graphic instead. Anybody know why? Thanks.quote>

 

Read the included read-me file and it will explain the RTMT needs a few exyta files ( dependencies ). Get those files and install those too in your plugins folder.

[Macmatt 0]

I thought it might be something like that; still a bit new to SC4 modding . Thanks.

[nihonkaranws 88]

hey could you make a japanese street/road/avenue/highway markings pack??? thx

[cogeo 960]

@Macmatt: as Zwabberaar said, check the readme for detailed installation instructions. You need to delete most of the RTMT datfiles for the pack to work properly. There is an additional document with some installation examples included in the download. But being new to SC4 you might consider the Installer Version instead (same functionality but much easier installation - the prop sets are preconfigured).

@nihonkaranws: sorry, I'm afraid not. I have no sources (pics etc), and most importantly I have absolutely no knowledge of japanese. I won't be able to tell if the markings will be OK (eg not rotated upside-down) and if they will look realistic and beautiful, eg have the correct colours and the font face, size, weight and detail be the correct ones. But if someone is interested I could provide help and instructions on how to do it. It's not hard at all, these are just overlay textures for lots, not network textures.

[bovineaux 0]

Just one question for an otherwise great-looking mod (I've yet to try it fully - mostly due to this issue): is it possible to make the lot you place 'stick' as the current cursor? That is, at the moment, when I place a subway (road) it will place and then go back to the default cursor. This makes it quite tedious for outfitting a large city as you have to re-select it from the menu to place multiple stations.

[doady 1]

It appears that, while my sims can access bus service from the combined bus/subway stations, they cannot access the subway service from those very same stations. The result is that entire sections of my subway system has ZERO riders, despite those same subways are underneath roads that are heavily congested with cars and buses.

[Godzillaman 21]

doady-Because the sims use the buses instead. Take out the bus/subway stops and just put subway stops if you want less congestion.

[doady 1]

Even before using Road Top Mass Transit, I have always placed bus stations beside elevated rail and subway stations with no problem. And if the simple presence bus stops is supposed cause subways to have zero ridership (which makes no sense), then the creator of Road Top Mass Transit should get rid of all the combined bus-subway stops from it.

[doady 1]

I should elaborate further on the problem here, because I finally understand it:

My city has a big subway system, with all the stations are combined with road-top bus/subway stations. All except ONE.  And that lone stand-alone subway station the only point where the sims enter the subway system in the morning, and the only point where they exit the subway system in the evening.  The road where this lone stand-alone subway station is located has a whopping 1200+ pedestrians where people are transferring from a nearby stand-alone bus station!

That means that the residents of my city are using far-away bus/subway stations to get on the bus to transfer to this one lone stand-alone subway station to get onto the subway, when they should have instead just gotten on the subway at the bus-subway station!

This means that I have to use separate road-top bus and subway stations to have a properly functioning subway system, which is a hassle because there has to be 1 tile space between them.  However, this is still much better each bus and subway station taking up 1 tile on its own, so I still like this road-top addon very much.

[cogeo 960]

Mookster and CaptCity:

It works for me!

Here is a pic:

It's a Bus/Subway on-Avenue Station in a commercial area. The first row shows the trip paths for the whole station, while the second row shows the paths for a single building (the beige one at the bottom right corner). The left column is the morning commute while the right one the evening commute. As you can see embarking/disembarking works for both bus and subway. Some other tests I made have shown that the hub functionality (Bus<->Subway) works as well. While in this pic shows a station with a subway tunnel next to the avenue, I have also experimented with different layouts, eg with the tunnel running under the avenue in either direction, and with the tunnel crossing the avenue. It works in all cases.

There are no updates since Aug 2007, and this was actually an expansion (GLR-on-Avenue Stations, MML) rather than a fix. Also there are no differences in the plugins in the ZIP and the Installer versions (the ZIP version has a greater choice of props, but this doesn't affect gameplay - the station/lot plugins are the same).

So it may be due to the way these are used, or the plugins you have installed. It would be helpful, if you could tell me the following:

- The direction of your avenues. The pic above shows a station built on an avenue in the East-West direction (see the sign in the top-left corner). I don't think this does matter, but some TE lots (with non-symmetrical TE specs) may behave differently if placed in the N-S or E-W direction. So if you see something like this, please report it to me.

- I use to drag a small stretch of avenue through the station after plopping. Please check if this fixes the problem (actually I haven't tested it otherwise).

- Maybe sims have no good reason to use the (subway) station (there may be shorter/faster routes), please try placing the station(s) in different places in your city (no need to save your city, you can exit to region without saving).

It would also be interesting to know:

- Version of your SC4 (American, European etc).

- Traffic direction (RH- or LH- driving) - though this should affect the Station Lots only, not their functionality.

- NAM Version, and Traffic_Plugin (or "A" or "B" Simulator settings). A screenshot of your NAM folder might help.

- Setup of your RTMT plugins (again, a shot might help).

And one note, if you are using the CAM and latest NAM, do not select the CAM Capacities for RTMT. The new NAM contains a Cleanitol file which removes the Traffic Plugin installed by CAM (installed under the z_CAM subfolder). So you must install the RTMT plugins that match your NAM Capacities (as before), no matter what the installer or the readme says. The CAM capacities were intended for the CAM Traffic Plugin (which should be normally removed). But this should not cause problems like the ones you described above, as the plugins differ only in the capacities.

[Mookster 0]

The lots are placed, naturally, in both E-W and N-S locations.  Dragging avenue over top did not fix it.  The sims DO have good reason to use subs.  Dropping a few 1x2 Avenue Sub stations immediately saw my Sub usage (in a city of 400k with ~200 stations) from 0 to ~60k.  Similarly, sims won't use the sub when it's their ONLY transit option, unless it's the 1x2 lot.

American SC4, RH driving

NAM April 2008 w/ Traffic_Plugin_D_BetterPathfinding_5xCapacity

RTMTV3_Stations_NAMCapacity_x5.dat

[CaptCity 4,871]

Cogeo...

Thanks for the response...

As with Mookster, when I placed the station lots in either E-W or N-S and ran the subway path in the same direction as the avenue, no subway usage. HOWEVER (excited - not yelling), after further testing, when I ran the subway paths out the either side of the lot, abracadabra, they function. I used NAM Traffic Simulator A for this.

Having seen Mookster's recent post, I'll try different NAM configurations and see what results I get.

Thanks again...

[Mookster 0]

Ignore that post, CaptCity, I think you've got it!  By chance, when testing after changing NAM settings, I ran the subway lines differently.  In a test city, with lines parallel to the road, no use.  Perpendicular? Perfect.

Edit: Yep.  Running new lines in my capital in perpendicular fashion made them function.  Nice sleuthing.

[CaptCity 4,871]

Well, I've tried a few different NAM configurations (A, AP, C), and all give me the same results - if subway tracks are perpendicular (nice way of describing it, Mookster

Also noticed (by accident) that even with a single stub of track in a perpendicular direction, sims seem to leave on the stub, make a U-turn, go back to the station, and turn onto the parallel track that did not function before - interesting...

Images -

Without 'stub'

With 'stub'

And wanted to reiterate, sims seem to come into the stations on the subway and transfer to bus just fine. It's only leaving the station on the subway that seems to be the problem.

Cogeo, it's hard to tell from your images, but do you have the subway tracks connected to the perpendicular sides for those images? It appears the yellow arrows are entering from the side rather than along the roadway. Just curious...

Don't know what else I should check for, but I'm willing to try any suggestions.

Oh yes, I'm running SC4 Rush Hour, American RHD version; NAM April 2008 and RTMT 3.5. No plugins except NAM and RTMT, no CAM, and these particular stations are the only way sims can get to work.

Tried the RTMT no-NAM-no-CAM option - same results

Tried older versions of RTMT with and without older versions of NAM (I'm a packrat )

[Jay Ray 0]

Hopefully a few quick questions.

If I understood the readme correctly, and I'm not sure I did, I must "transit enable" a RTBS by dragging a one way street across the stop. This means that these stops wont work in both directions on my ubiquitous 2 way streets, yes? Would I have to place two stops in close proximity and drag a one way street across each one in the direction I'd like them to go? Will this then break the 2 way streets?

[CaptCity 4,871]

Dragging a one-way road through the lot corrects the road direction on a one-way after plopping the lot. I don't know if you noticed, but sometimes when plopping one of the lots on top of a one-way, it changes direction of the road. Dragging after plopping in the original direction is required only on the one-way lots so that the one-way is going the same way it was.

I don't think dragging through any of the lots is required for 'transit-enabling' the lot. Although I usually do - just in case

[Jay Ray 0]

I see.  I can't find the readme on my hard drive anywhere.  It could be I misread whatever it was I think I read.  Two hours straight of downloading all these packs and dependencies, a good number of which aren't active anymore, could easily have addled my brain.

So then if what you say is true regarding one-ways, what do you do if the road is a two-way to begin with? 

[CaptCity 4,871]

For any network, just select the appropriate RTMT station for whichever transportation network you're working with and plop it on top of the road, street, or avenue. If you've selected the wrong type, it won't let you plop it. Also, some may break the connection when you plop them. Just drag the netwok through them (as I mentioned before, I usually do this always - just a habit). Hope this helps...