Monorail Volume/Congestion

[Piano Man 3]

First off, let me introduce myself. I am a third year architecture student at Iowa State University. (That's in the Midwest of the U.S.) Looking towards possibly taking some of my studio creations and adding them to the Simtropolis exchange!

My problem: I have a monorail that connects my industrial city with my central residential/commercial city tile. Essentially the rail just enters each city tile, heads towards the center, makes a U turn, and exits. This is the same for both cities.

I have a large handful of stations in each city, each with a monorail bypass so that the trains aren't forced to enter the station in order to complete a circuit. However almost without fail, each station is either at 0% usage (as in the industrial city), or 246% usage (in the residential city). The cities are mostly low density, and have about a few blocks between each station. This is clearly not functioning properly.

My question: What is the flaw? Do I build more stations? Mod the capacity to support significantly higher traffic? Is there some sort of endless loop sims are using? (idk how this could happen in a U shaped system within each city)

Additional comments:

-My residential city has dirty industrial demand capped at its maximum, and the dirty industrial city has residential demand capped at its maximum. However, the residential city is actually in negative demand for all residential, which many sims unable to find jobs (suitcase symbol)

-The "suitcased" lots indicate long commute times, however every other lot indicates a short commute.

-I use the NAM at its highest levels, as well as a mod that multiplies the jobs of industrial buildings by 4.

Have spent all my time pondering this problem while I'm supposed to build site models for my studio projects! lol

[CaptCity 4,789]

Welcome to Simtropolis...

My problem: I have a monorail that connects my industrial city with my central residential/commercial city tile. Essentially the rail just enters each city tile, heads towards the center, makes a U turn, and exits. This is the same for both cities.

I have a large handful of stations in each city, each with a monorail bypass so that the trains aren't forced to enter the station in order to complete a circuit. However almost without fail, each station is either at 0% usage (as in the industrial city), or 246% usage (in the residential city)...

So you're seeing the stations near residential being used but none of the ones near industry in he other city? If you use the Route Query tool on the tracks, does it show they're being used? If so, is there traffic heading off-map to the neighboring city? Perhaps there is another way to get there, or your stations are being used as shortcuts.

[z1 566]

Your monorail bypasses are unnecessary, at least from the game's point of view. In SC4, vehicles never stop at intermediate stations; vehicles are all single-passenger.

What is the actual traffic volume at your stations? How many stations have the 246% volume?

I would strongly second CaptCity's suggestion of using the route query tool to see what's really going on. You may have a single stream of Sims entering and exiting the monorail, which would account for the identical percentages.

As for capacity, in a situation such as yours, I would recommend modifying the capacity of the monorail station; the capacities of all Maxis stations are extremely low compared to what's required in many cities. According to this post (which I wrote, but which has become a standard for the BSC), a standard three-tile monorail station should have a capacity of 45,000.

My question: What is the flaw?

There may not be any flaw in your city. The Route Query Tool can be used to determine this.

  Edited April 4, 2011 by z1  

[Lucario Boricua 7,029]

You say there's a U-turn on the industrial city district--is this the same for the residential-commercial city center? If so, then you'd have a traffic loop that formed. This is a game bug in which Sims travel around in a network without ever getting off to a work destination. To solve it, you have to break the closed path. A good option to do it would probably be breaking the U of the industrial city, and have two separate lines there.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You say there's a U-turn on the industrial city district--is this the same for the residential-commercial city center? If so, then you'd have a traffic loop that formed. This is a game bug in which Sims travel around in a network without ever getting off to a work destination. To solve it, you have to break the closed path. A good option to do it would probably be breaking the U of the industrial city, and have two separate lines there.

Yes, this bug can be very annoying. Sims just love to ride around and around (bug). Rearrange your transportation net into a tree structure with no loop-backs and this will stop. There should be no way for a Sim going to work to just ride past his job and go around. Don't forget that they need buses at both ends to get to and from the stations, but be careful not to let them drive back on a compound loop.

Use the route query tool and follow a Sim to work. He should take the bus to the station, ride to his work location, take the bus to the station near his job and walk to work.

  Edited April 4, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[CaptCity 4,789]

You say there's a U-turn on the industrial city district--is this the same for the residential-commercial city center? If so, then you'd have a traffic loop that formed. This is a game bug in which Sims travel around in a network without ever getting off to a work destination. To solve it, you have to break the closed path. A good option to do it would probably be breaking the U of the industrial city, and have two separate lines there.

I think we're looking at two different things. The "bug" in the game is when routes go through more than two cities. This could result in "phantom commuters" that stay on the route instead of getting off for jobs because they "see" the neighboring city jobs as closer. This wouldn't happen in a two-city situation. The "loop" that Piano Man seems to have is a route that simply has a return path in the same city. While this would appear to be "realistic," this round trip path is unnecessary and shouldn't cause any problems. If anything, the whole loop wouldn't be used, as only half of it would be the shortest distance. The remaining part would just sit empty. Sims wouldn't stay on the route once they have a destination job. Of course, if the loop did go through more than two cities, then problems could occur.

[Piano Man 3]

Upon closer examination, it's clear to me that I need to add in more bus stops in both industrial cities. This is because commuters are using both car/walking and then some combination of bus and rail to get to work. Not good! This isn't enough however to solve my initial problem which I've outlined in the following screenshots.

[CaptCity 4,789]

Perhaps the industrial jobs in the western city are enough to satisfy the industrial demand, and the industry in the southern city isn't needed. If you "break" the connections to the western city, will Sims travel to the southern one. (To keep things as they are, you don't need to save the city when doing this.)

[z1 566]

There's no way to prevent Sims from switching from the bus to take the monorail shortcut; the difference in speed is just too great. The monorail is five times faster than the bus, and Sims will always take the fastest route. The traffic simulator is just not sophisticated enough to let you manage things more directly.

[Piano Man 3]

There's no way to prevent Sims from switching from the bus to take the monorail shortcut; the difference in speed is just too great. The monorail is five times faster than the bus, and Sims will always take the fastest route. The traffic simulator is just not sophisticated enough to let you manage things more directly.

While that is true that I cannot control shortcuts directly, it doesn't account for the fact that both industrial cities have a huge demand for R$, and my Residential city has a huge demand for Dirty Industry. Demand for all else is usually around zero. This would imply that my sims can't find jobs, yet at the same time the industry can't find workers. Why aren't they commuting?! One guess is that the commute time to my newer industrial city is really long, too long for any one sim to travel. But I can't find any data to prove/disprove that since no sims have bothered to make the commute yet!

My other guess is that for some reason, the game is trying to satisfy the demands of one city first, as if there is some sort of priority between the two industrial cities.

  Edited April 5, 2011 by Piano Man  

[Lucario Boricua 7,029]

Have you thought on extending the monorail's reach on the residential/commercial city some more? Perhaps you probably should. Add some short feeder lines with a few stations (1-3, maybe 4, depending on length) along the main and the collector roads. Make sure they have parking buildings as well. Also, you say you're using the NAM--did you choose to use the NAM's traffic simulator, as opposed to keeping the Maxis traffic simulator? If you're using that of Maxis, that could be another problem: that simulator fails too much when it comes to getting sims travel further to work, in many cases to such an extent that it makes cities be dilapidated widely.

  Edited April 5, 2011 by Dragonxander  

[z1 566]

While that is true that I cannot control shortcuts directly, it doesn't account for the fact that both industrial cities have a huge demand for R$, and my Residential city has a huge demand for Dirty Industry.

That's true; this is a separate issue.

My other guess is that for some reason, the game is trying to satisfy the demands of one city first, as if there is some sort of priority between the two industrial cities.

This may be what's happening. In general, Sims will first fill the jobs closest to them that meet their needs. For external cities, this distance is determined solely by distance to the city border. So if your Sims live closer to the border of one industrial city than another, they'll all go to work at the first city as long as there are appropriate jobs there.

[dchotzen-hartzell19 34]

You could just– if monorail is the problem– replace it with a slower form of transit like GLR, or El. Rail, which could be built on, or on top of a road. I have had problems with sims not using the monorail at all, but that was before I got the NAM. I am just in the process of installing a T-RAM network now. Get z1's T-RAM Stations here: https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/21158-rtmt-interim-t-ram-stations/

[Piano Man 3]

Have you thought on extending the monorail's reach on the residential/commercial city some more? Perhaps you probably should. Add some short feeder lines with a few stations (1-3, maybe 4, depending on length) along the main and the collector roads. Make sure they have parking buildings as well. Also, you say you're using the NAM--did you choose to use the NAM's traffic simulator, as opposed to keeping the Maxis traffic simulator? If you're using that of Maxis, that could be another problem: that simulator fails too much when it comes to getting sims travel further to work, in many cases to such an extent that it makes cities be dilapidated widely.

I just use NAM at the "ultra" setting that I selected during install. I'd need a refresher on how to find and change this manually.

As for my cities' progress, the old industrial city is now over 80,000 sims with explosive growth, while my commercial/residential city has stagnated at 60,000. The new industrial city still receives zero traffic to speak of. I've added additional monorail and bus hubs, parking ramps, as well as a few thousand commercial jobs in the problematic region.

Result: Monorail and road congestion has balanced out and is doing fine (apart from lack of commuting to the newer industrial city). The coastal no-job zots are still a huge problem! I've satisfied the job requirements of my old industrial city, and am actually getting commuters from there to my new commercial lots! I can't help but wonder if this is somehow a glitch by installing either the NAM or a bus stop mod during mid-development of these cities.

New developments along the coast are always popping up, fill with residents, and have a short commute time. Then about a month later, the same buildings suddenly have no-job zots, long commute times, and abandon soon after. Then the cycle repeats on a bi-monthly basis (lol). This occurs regardless of wealth level of the occupants.

[z1 566]

You could just– if monorail is the problem– replace it with a slower form of transit like GLR, or El. Rail, which could be built on, or on top of a road.

I can't see any problems that monorail would be causing, other than the shortcutting. And both GLR and El Rail (which use the same underlying network) are faster enough than buses that the same shortcutting would occur.

New developments along the coast are always popping up, fill with residents, and have a short commute time. Then about a month later, the same buildings suddenly have no-job zots, long commute times, and abandon soon after. Then the cycle repeats on a bi-monthly basis (lol). This occurs regardless of wealth level of the occupants.

This indicates some sort of imbalance between available jobs and new residents. It can be happening at multiple wealth levels simultaneously. Please see the tutorial Workforce and Occupation Demands (Drives) for more information on how this all works.

[The_highwayman 6]

To me, it just seems a shame to put industry in such a picturesque location as the southern industrial city.

I would make the southern industrial city into a small residential city and make the eastern city into a thriving commercial/dense residential centre. Then i would further develop the 'western' industrial cities towards their southern coast and set up ferry links between the new residential city and the industrial city.

but that might be a dumb plan.

  Edited April 6, 2011 by The_highwayman  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I am currently developing some Ag/Comm small tiles that are adjacent to a residential/vacation area in a medium tile with a lake on its norther border. What I have found is that if I zone some dense residential on the borders (right at the neighbor connections (one rail, one road to two separate tiles), and supply power and water, I get lots of development on these borders, and higher demands in the resort tile. Now the idea here was to get workers into my A/C tiles, which worked very well, but the rail connections are now loaded because of the commercial development in the neighbor tiles.

If you place R areas right at the neighbor connections, there is no question of where the Sims will go to work.

[Piano Man 3]

Well, since my original question has been more or less resolved, I will update on the status of my city. Here in the first image is a more recent snapshot of the previously posted neighborhood.

I

I've since decided that my original "strip"-like plan for this neighborhood does not work as efficiently as expected. I believe the main culprit is that there really aren't any efficient/convenient locations for mass transit that don't severly obstruct the zoning for the lots. Secondly, on the broader spectrum, the unemployment problems in this area happened because all the highest wealth people flocked to this neighborhood. Problem is, the majority of their jobs existed as CEO's or whatever of the industry in my older industrial city. Combined with the need to switch from pedestrian to bus, monorail, back to bus, across a border, onto a train, and then back to pedestrian traffic caused ultimately long commutes.

As a solution to this problem, I looked towards the concept of Vancouverism displayed in the neighborhood below:

In this neighborhood, the vast majority of workers could walk to their place of employment, and those who can't had various forms of convenient transportation available to them. For example, I could replace the open grass areas with a monorail and/or an elevated railway next door. This would also leave the current developments undisturbed. This method also worked well with industrial areas (not quite so much with dirty industry, but still doable).

I really like the community here and all the help I received. I think I'll stay a while.