Quick way to check whether growable

[huntingfire 15]

What a relief to see simtropolis back to the stage !

Well, I am cleaning up my plugin and trying to locate some ploppables only (to delete them, the menu is getting so long that my finger starting to cramp!).

However, some lots have no descriptions and is there any quick and fast way to check?

(BTW, I know LE and Reader.)

[antsel 841]

As far as I know, there is no quick way to check, that would be far too easy. You could do a search within your plugins folder for "plop" or "lm", and that would get you a decent list, but I would be careful before deleting them. I suggest you use the Reader before deleting them.

I find myself in the same position as you, except I'm trying to rid my plugins folder of all the Landmarks with no jobs. So, I've been doing it the hard way... I've been opening pretty much every file in my plugins folder with Reader to find them. It's really tedious and boring, but I did come across many lots that I intended to delete but had no way of finding them within the folder. So, long story short, if you really want to clean up your plugins folder you might have to suffer through checking lot-by-lot.

And please, no one tell me there's a better way to do this... ...I've already wasted several hours of my life doing this.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Selles, why didn't you use the simple automatic categorization through iLive's Reader?

Naah, just kidding. You're right, there's no easy way, and just to avoid possible doubts for newcomers, the function mentioned above doesn't exist.

In most cases you'll have to delete a lot file and a loose desc file. (The loose desc file is superfluous for ploppables, but people who can't name their files properly probably don't know this, either.)

Some pointers off the top of my head:

• As long as the lots are similar in footprint and design (e.g. LM and growable both 3x3), chances are that the bigger file will belong to the landmark. Why? Because it contains the PNG file for the lot icon, which is obviously only required for ploppables.
• As for the desc files flying around, you can also go by size. The more properties the desc file contains, the bigger it is. Props need the fewest properties, so an .sc4desc file that belongs to a prop (e.g. a free-standing sign for a fast food restaurant) will typically be below 1 kB. A desc file belonging to a ploppable is biggest because ploppables require more properties than growables: menu position, park/landmark effect, several lines for budget position, monthly cost etc... Consequently, desc files for growable lots tend to be in the middle.

I can check more exact numbers as soon as I am back home.

[antsel 841]

Selles, why didn't you use the simple automatic categorization through iLive's Reader?

My heart skipped a beat when I first read that... then I found myself trying to rationalize why I had done it the hard way.

And then I saw you were just joking.

All good points, I'm sure I left many .desc files that have no use now... but I'm not about to go through the plugins folder again to remove them.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Maybe it's just me and my suspicious nature, but I keep everything that comes in in a Downloads folder away from the game, and keep it in a structure that is exactly reflected in my plugins. If I want to remove a lot, I first look in downloads and make sure that it can be easily deleted from plugins.

After deleting a plugin, I change the extension of the folder in my Downloads to .del to indicate it is now not there in the game. I only delete the folder from the Downloads structure when I am sure I really don't want this.

[huntingfire 15]

If there is no quick way, then what should I look at if a lot is growable?

e.g. If I just check "Capacity Satisfied", is it good enough?

[T Wrecks 10,209]

No. Functional ploppables may offer jobs as well - think of all those NDEX CO§§§ skyscrapers, which also exist as ploppable versions. They also have the "capacity satisfied" property, no matter whether the lot is growable or ploppable.

Besides, said property is contained in the building exemplar, not in the lot exemplar.

The building exemplar is either contained in a loose .sc4desc file (both for growable and ploppable), or it is merged into the .sc4lot file (this happens automatically in case of everything ploppable, and it can be done by hand in case of growables. However, chances are that a modder who knows how to merge .sc4desc and .sc4lot for a growable BAT will also choose proper names).

Some pretty unique properties in building exemplars (useful if you look at loose .sc4desc files) are:

For ploppables:

• Item icon
• all budget-related stuff

For growables:

• Occupant Groups: tileset Chicago and/or NY and/or Houston and/or Euro (ploppables don't have and don't need tilesets because they don't grow)

I really think I should have a look at my external HD and dig out my old "Modding School" lessons, because these contain some illustrated guides to identifying files. That part may be a useful resource for some of you.

[huntingfire 15]

T Wrecks, thx for the insight!

So the rule of thumb should be -> ploppable will have "Landmark" in the Occupant Group and bigger file, right?

Coincide with your example, in fact I have the problem with NDEX, Ill Tonkso and simgoober buildings!

I have a lot of them, most of them are both growable and ploppable, and I want to remove the ploppable version.

[stormlover 16]

Even after playing this game for years, I'm just an average player. I read the basics on the ilive reader, and through trial and effort figured how to set many (but not all) exemplar specs to more realistic levels. That said, I remain in a fog when it comes to the relationship between "capacity satisfied" and "demand created." At times I'll see one or the other or even both at the same time. Is there a simple explanation for this? Obviously they both concern employment, and I can alter the numbers; but I don't really understand exactly what I'm doing. This "capacity/demand" business seems rather random; decided by whatever the modder chooses?

Thank you,

Tim in North Carolina

[T Wrecks 10,209]

T Wrecks, thx for the insight!

So the rule of thumb should be -> ploppable will have "Landmark" in the Occupant Group and bigger file, right?

Right.

Coincide with your example, in fact I have the problem with NDEX, Ill Tonkso and simgoober buildings!

I have a lot of them, most of them are both growable and ploppable, and I want to remove the ploppable version.

Ill Tonkso pumps out a lot of good stuff, but he's notorious for being a bit lazy in the details, haha. (Ooooh, he's gonna slap me if/when he reads this... ). If he left file names rather obscure, then you should be able to go by file size.

SimGoober mostly follows a fixed scheme: If it is ploppable, the file names will be "SG_[name].[extension]". If they are growable, the file names will not begin with "SG_" - instead you may find a letter code for the in-game category (R, CS, CO, I-D etc.) and/or a growth stage information. I could take a look at some files at home.

As for NDEX, I don't really remember anything in particular because I'm not using much NDEX stuff any more, and the few buildings I use have been tweaked by me. One workaround for you would consist in downloading your NDEX stuff from http://kurier.simcityplaza.de, the BAT exchange of the German SimCity fan site. Navigation shouldn't be too difficult if you enter some terms into any decent online dictionary or run the site through Google Translate. You'll find all the NDEX classics on the oldest pages in the CO/CS/R sections. These feature tweaked stats, new lots, and file names that allow you to tell growables and ploppables apart from each other.

[zydd 0]

What a relief to see simtropolis back to the stage !

Well, I am cleaning up my plugin and trying to locate some ploppables only (to delete them, the menu is getting so long that my finger starting to cramp!).

However, some lots have no descriptions and is there any quick and fast way to check?

(BTW, I know LE and Reader.)

1. Open the description file ( .SC4Desc) with a text reader.

2. If you can find (F7 with NotePad) the word "Landmark", it's a Landmark, if you can't find, it's growable.

(Sorry, if somebody already answered it...)

[zydd 0]

1. Open the description file ( .SC4Desc) with a text reader.

2. If you can find (F7 with NotePad) the word "Landmark", it's a Landmark, if you can't find, it's growable.

(Sorry, if somebody already answered it...)

And Landmark SC4Desc files are usually bigger.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Zydd, I appreciate your willingness to help, and I can understand that you can't always read every post that has ever been made.

However, in this case the thread didn't have more than 10 posts before you replied, so you should really make sure you have read the latest posts before you reply. In fact, everything you wrote had already been said, and just a few posts above! Moreover, please avoid making multiple posts in a row. If you have forgotten something, use the "Edit" function to add it to your post rather than making a new post only minutes after your last reply. Thank you.

[huntingfire 15]

All helps are appreciated!

I just use Tonkso's recent release "Corner office A" as an example.

In one lot file, Occupant Group shown both Landmark and CS$.

In the associated (I guess only) desc file, Occupant Group shown Commercial, CS$, then the styles.

I just wonder one lot can be a Landmark and a growable at the same time?

And, whether it is a CS$ or CS$ building?

BTW I have also figured out Simgoober's naming "habit". Thx anyway!

  Edited March 24, 2011 by huntingfire  

[huntingfire 15]

That said, I remain in a fog when it comes to the relationship between "capacity satisfied" and "demand created." At times I'll see one or the other or even both at the same time. Is there a simple explanation for this? Obviously they both concern employment, and I can alter the numbers; but I don't really understand exactly what I'm doing. This "capacity/demand" business seems rather random; decided by whatever the modder chooses?

Thank you,

Tim in North Carolina

I know only "capacity satisfied", it is just simply the capacity of the building (well, am I saying something?), I mean the maximun number of residents or workers.

I learnt this because some buildings have set the figuer too high and the buildings "flood" my city.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

All helps are appreciated!

I just use Tonkso's recent release "Corner office A" as an example.

In one lot file, Occupant Group shown both Landmark and CS$.

This would be a ploppable with jobs. Ploppables are nothing but landmarks with jobs "hacked" into them, and in order for a building to offer jobs, they must have a corresponding occupant group - in this case, CS§.

In the associated (I guess only) desc file, Occupant Group shown Commercial, CS$, then the styles.

Nope, this is not associated with the ploppable version with jobs. Why? Because anything that can be plopped from the menu does not require building styles that determine in which tileset it can grow. If you don't see a landmark occupant group, but an RCI category AND tileset info, then you're looking at the desc file of a growable building.

I just wonder one lot can be a Landmark and a growable at the same time?

No, this is not possible. A landmark can hold jobs (then it's generally called a "ploppable with jobs" to tell it apart from regular landmarks), but growable and landmark exclude each other.

And, whether it is a CS$ or CS$ building?

Sorry? I think you may have mistyped something here. Either that, or I'm especially slow in the uptake today.

BTW I have also figured out Simgoober's naming "habit". Thx anyway!

You're welcome. Once you have figured it out, it's actually rather easy, but I know from my own experience that all those long file names with tons of hexadecimal numbers, underscores, abbreviations and symbols in them can be intiimidating at first.

I'm not that sure about the "demand created/demand satisified" thing, but here's what I remember:

RCI buildings have occupant numbers. These are determined by means of the property "capacity satisfied". When one of these buildings grows, the demand for that category is reduced by the number of occupants. For example, if you have a CO§§ demand of 2,000 and a CO§§ building with 200 jobs grows, the CO§§ demand will go down by 200 (i.e. down to 1,800), because this is the amount of CO§§ capacity that has been satisfied by the building.

On a side note, this does NOT necessarily mean that 200 people are employed in CO§§ jobs now! Firstly, attractivity at the growth site will affect the capacity of the building. Since attractivity is rarely if ever at 100%, the actual capacity of the building will typically be below 200, e.g. at 194. This is what you will see in the UI window when you query the building. 194/200 means that the building currently offers a maximum of 194 CO§§ jobs of the 200 CO§§ jobs it could theoretically offer under ideal conditions.

The amount of people that actually work there can be determined by clicking on the building with the route query tool. The game typically requires some time to re-arrange the Sims' routes to their respective work sites, so the actual number of workers may be low in the beginning and increase over time. However, if only few Sims go there to work, you have reduced your CO§§ capacity by 200, but only employed a handful of Sims. This often indicates that the transportation structure of your city needs improvement because the Sims don't reach the jobs that are in demand.

Civic buildings will typically have a pair of values, "demand created/demand satisified". These are civic jobs that are in no way related to RCI jobs, and they don't appear in any graph, either. In any Maxis buildings you will find that the two properties feature identical values. Now my memory begins to fade a bit, but I seem to remember that civic buildings are made to generate exactly the demand ("demand created") that is needed to occupy the jobs they offer ("demand satisfied").

I hope this helps.

[huntingfire 15]

I see! I understand much better now!