Consumerism

[Duke87 1,070]

2005- "Holy Crap! It's the Backstreet Boys!"

Following years- "Who are they?" or "Wow, they suck!"

I think you mean 1998, not 2005.

What do Americans have to deal with the working class? Canadians don't really have such rifts but Americans? Drugs? Isn't it much easier to deal drugs in a gated community where police won't go?

It's a cultural thing. America has a long history of class warfare, with the rich disinterested in doing anything to help the poor because that would mean they'd have less money, and the poor hating the rich for abusing them and not paying them more. This has created a rift where the two groups often want to act more like enemies battling each other than people coexisting in society.

It's preserved, though, by an ever-persistent attitude that if one is born poor that is all one can ever hope to be (not actually true, but a self-fulfilling prophecy if you believe it as many people do), and the fact that welfare in this country is dysfunctionally based strictly around giving men to fish rather than teaching them to fish. In Canada, welfare can help you go to school and get trained for a career. Not so in the US. In Canada, you cannot stay on welfare for more than seven years. In the US, many welfare programs can be stayed on indefinitely. Our system does not help people improve nor does it motivate them to improve. It just gives out handouts.

This is by design, of course. Neither Republicans nor Democrats want a welfare system that actually works. Republicans don't want it because it would disprove their ideology that welfare is wasteful and pointless. Democrats don't want it because if people were less dependent on welfare they would miss it less if it was cut, and since they're supposed to be the pro-welfare party, that would lose them votes. Just another example of how our government doesn't actually give a damn about us.

Gangs? Well they don't really exist outside of ghettos like Bronx.

Kids in the 'hood join gangs because their parents aren't looking out for them. There are certainly plenty of kids from middle and higher income families in the same position, but they grow up in a different environment and resolve the problem differently. One thing having parents with money accomplishes here is that kids have other things to do to keep themselves occupied besides wander the streets and cause trouble.

On another note, you're making a common overgeneralization here that a lot of people who are not actually familiar with New York make. There are plenty of decent and even a few really nice parts of The Bronx. Check out Throgs Neck, Eastchester, or Riverdale sometime. Very different from Mott Haven or Hunts Point.

Your kids? I don't see much difference between suburban schools and city schools.

The difference is really the kids in them, not the schools themselves. Though, the kids being different often requires that the school approach things differently.

Robbery and theft? While it won't happen in gated communities it won't happen in working class areas since there is not much to rob, specially if you disguise that you're working class.

But it does. There is always something to rob, what matters more than the value of the target is how easy it is to hit. Live in a neighborhood potential burglars won't look out of place walking around in, you have more to worry about. Live near the highway where it's easy to make a quick getaway, you have more to worry about. Can't afford an alarm system on your house, you have more to worry about.

The first 2 years of family life, you should stay with your parents, since at that time peroid you haven't have kids yet.

Well, there's a cultural problem here. Living with your parents after you've finished school interferes with your ability to have a social life both because it's uncool and also because chances are there aren't going to be too many other people your age in the area, your friends are all moving out to places that are more hip and happening. Especially problematic for men since women don't like to date guys who still live with their parents. After all, if he's not fully responsible for taking care of himself, should she expect that he'll be fully responsible for taking care of her and their future children?

If you still live with your parents, you're not going to get much privacy. They know who you're bringing into the house, when, and for what purpose. They know when you're home and when you're not. They know what you're up to and even if you don't tell them anything they can figure things out.

Besides, a lot of parents in the US wouldn't let their kids continue living with them for years and years after they finish school even if they wanted to.

At this time, save up on everything and buy a cheap fuel efficient car like an Elantra. After 2 years where you have saved up around half your house's value, buy a house.

Two years is nowhere near enough time to save up half the value of a house. You'd need more like ten. At least.

As for cars, I think I'll stick to my Ford. It's American.

As a kid, I didn't have any $300 toys. We weren't poor; we were typical middle class. $300 toys simply did not exist. or, if they did, no one had the expectation that they should have one.

I wonder about this, though. The gaming system might be more expensive, but could there not also be a complimentary decrease in the number of cheaper toys? After all, it's not like kids have more hours in a day to play. Compare, for instance, the number of board games in your average house now compared to 40 years ago. I suspect it's less.

One case is Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Before that movie was released everyone was carrying on about it being an instant classic and how Roger was going to be a cultural icon like Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse. How many people here have heard of him?

Well, I have.

[airman15 4,111]

^ Yes, I meant 1998. I didn't have a lot of time to make that post

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

It seems the bloom is off the rose at last.

On last night's national news (CBC), there was a segment on young readers and sales of books to them. They had Salmon Rushdie on explaining that his current best seller is aimed at the teen-age set, and is selling very well. Not bad for a guy that some Muslims would like to kill.

Teeners who were interviewed say that they have "discovered" books have more to them than the same old boring games. Apparently there are even getting to be teen discussion circles (a.k.a. book clubs) to talk about what they are reading (conversations? Good grief!).

I have read not only the Harry Potter books but also some others that were aimed at the youth crowd. The quality of the writing is as good as it gets, and the plots are pretty good. At least one that I read was dependent on Greek mythology, and humanized the Greek gods very well, even explaining their traditional limitations.

If this takes root, I begin to have hope for the current generation. These people are purchasing books on paper, by the way.

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, we can't discount ulterior motives. I have an uncle who was in a book club when he was younger not because he particularly cared about reading and discussing the books the club was choosing, but because it was a way for him to meet women (and it worked, he met his wife through it).

But yes, there are still kids out there with brains who enjoy more intellectual activities. They just aren't represented in Hollywood's depictions of what high school is like.

[un1 41]

Teeners who were interviewed say that they have "discovered" books have more to them than the same old boring games. Apparently there are even getting to be teen discussion circles (a.k.a. book clubs) to talk about what they are reading (conversations? Good grief!).

...

If this takes root, I begin to have hope for the current generation. These people are purchasing books on paper, by the way.

The sad thing is, it's still very uncool to read books. To many times have I been bullied for reading books (well one book ), but I know it's better to just deal with it than give up on reading. Here I do not know of many people who read books, at all, so a book club is completely out of the question. I still have no faith in my generation, mostly because of what the past generations are going to make us fix and the fact that very few people find high value in education.

[airman15 4,111]

I am disappointed by the generation I was born in. Generation Y is probably the most technologically obsessed generation so far and sad to say in my opinion: the most ignorant. Most of the people of my age that I have seen have Facebook, Twitter and at least 2 more social network accounts. And when I say ignorant, I mean it because sometimes when I say that I don't like something that everyone else does, they all jump down my throat about it (I don't like rap but everyone else does).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

It seems the bloom is off the rose at last.

On last night's national news (CBC), there was a segment on young readers and sales of books to them. They had Salmon Rushdie on explaining that his current best seller is aimed at the teen-age set, and is selling very well. Not bad for a guy that some Muslims would like to kill.

Teeners who were interviewed say that they have "discovered" books have more to them than the same old boring games. Apparently there are even getting to be teen discussion circles (a.k.a. book clubs) to talk about what they are reading (conversations? Good grief!).

I have read not only the Harry Potter books but also some others that were aimed at the youth crowd. The quality of the writing is as good as it gets, and the plots are pretty good. At least one that I read was dependent on Greek mythology, and humanized the Greek gods very well, even explaining their traditional limitations.

If this takes root, I begin to have hope for the current generation. These people are purchasing books on paper, by the way.

[hamsterTK 93]

Generation Y is probably the most technologically obsessed generation so far and sad to say in my opinion: the most ignorant.

Well I think there is no point in being despondent, thankfully that is your opinion.

I think you mean 1998, not 2005.

Correct.

I recall it being around 1998-2000 when you had the Britney Spears/NSync/Backstreet Boys/Baha Men/Blink 182 pop music stuff. By 2005, that stuff had already been dated for a few years and the emo fad started. But why say an entire time period was bad? I mean, the late 90s had good rock music in the form of Foo Fighters, PUSA, etc. Smash Mouth was pretty good too.

Hate to say it, but I was just a little middle school kid back then and thought that stuff was cool, at least until I got into my dad's collection of classic rock . And who cares? Looking back I see a growing nostalgia for silly things like that. Remember Pokemon or watching Dragonball Z on Cartoon Network after school? See what I mean?

The gaming system might be more expensive, but could there not also be a complimentary decrease in the number of cheaper toys?

This. And when you adjust for inflation and purchasing power, I wonder if a Playstation 3 really tops the list of expensive things. I bet basement model railroads were not cheap, and they still aren't(which is why Simcity 4, and stuff like Simutrans and Trainz exists)

  Edited May 16, 2011 by hamsterTK  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The results of the Euro Song Contest are fascinating. Is this a new definition of pop? What will the impact on the markets?

[FreewayofFlight 41]

The results of the Euro Song Contest are fascinating. Is this a new definition of pop? What will the impact on the markets?

I don't like watching singing contests like American Idol. I'll wait till any of those 'Idols' gain any independant success before paying attention to them. Plus I really don't like Ryan Seacrest, I find him pretentious.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

"It is all in how you see it 'chacun à son gout'" From the second act of Der Fledermaüs by Johann Strauss.

[EyeofMobius 27]

The sad thing is, it's still very uncool to read books. To many times have I been bullied for reading books (well one book ), but I know it's better to just deal with it than give up on reading. Here I do not know of many people who read books, at all, so a book club is completely out of the question. I still have no faith in my generation, mostly because of what the past generations are going to make us fix and the fact that very few people find high value in education.

Which Book? If I may ask?

It is good that you are pushing through the bullying for your enjoyment of reading. I went through all of school as an avid reader having as it cause as much trouble for me as it helped out on; I think I was at an undergrad reading level by grade 6. Being bullied for reading really is a disappointment until life experience catches up with the knowledge of books; it will give you a nice leg up on understanding the world as an adult.

I disagree that few people find a high value in education. Undergraduate University studies are huge from a consumption standpoint. When I was in High School the diploma was a ticket to greater things and a very large workforce with lots of opportunity; now the bar seems to be getting raised making a University degree a neccesity to end up in a job you can actually plan a retirement from rather than working a job till you are dead. Universities and colleges across North America are expanding offerings and mini-colleges that offer certifications are popping up all over the place; I think that capitalism has just caught on to the economic possibilites of education. The cost of tuition is climbing so fast and student debts are becoming massive.

Once you finish High school the world offers you so many ways to quickly become thousands of dollars in debt and once you are in debt you are in servitude.

[airman15 4,111]

^ -sigh- That post brings back a lot of horrible memories. I was an intellect in the 7th grade in a school full of racist *forgot what to say*. They targeted me because I'll admit I was a nerd. I always hung out in the library because it was the only place where I could find peace and I befriended the teachers just so I would fell secure. I was part of the minority group at that school, and because I was a nerd and I was traumatized. I fell permanently scarred from that experience and I am still haunted to this day by what happened there. Can you imagine what it's like to be the only intellectual white kid trapped in a school full of racist *insert an name*s who hate anyone who isn't one of them?

  Edited May 17, 2011 by usfighter15  
Inappropriate language

[un1 41]

Which Book? If I may ask?

I've only read one book in public, The Diary of Anne Frank, I've read a huge book on Napoleon in private though.

I went through all of school as an avid reader having as it cause as much trouble for me as it helped out on; I think I was at an undergrad reading level by grade 6.

I didn't really read heavily in grade 6, as in grade 6 I accumulated 3k of my Simtropolis posts. But I see value in reading now rather than posting 100 posts a week on Simtropolis. I like history so I find most of my time researching as much as I can on my favourite topics (French Revolution, USSR)

I disagree that few people find a high value in education.

It probably is an area thing. We have tons of drug abuse, under age alcohol abuse and suicide problems just because of our location in the world. (6 hours from the closest big city) Some people just don't see the benefit by being far away from a large city.

Once you finish High school the world offers you so many ways to quickly become thousands of dollars in debt and once you are in debt you are in servitude.

That's one of my biggest gripes with the current system. It's not worth it when you can make billions through private industry. I'm all for free university education but that comes with my political ideology (however the government wouldn't pay for credits that don't benefit it in anyway, so that can become a problem with free university).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

One of my old friends used to (maybe still does) teach maths and physics at Lakehead U. in Thunder Bay. Ever run into a chap named Guy Middleton? He used to crew on my yacht on some weekends. He was doing his last year in undergrad physics when I was working at the U. of Waterloo in the math faculty services.

Let's see, what do I know about Thunder Bay: I've never been there, and seen it only from the air; it has a large population of immigrant Finns; it has a large population of first nations people; It used to be two cities, Fort Francis and Port Arthur; It is a very busy shipping port being at the end of the Seaway. That's it, but then how many people know my rural area at all?

Diverting back to books: I have been a reader as long as I can remember. My parents always bought me hard cover books as gifts. My son finished the entire LOTR when he was nine. We started reading it together, but I went out of town for about a week, and he finished it while I was gone and dived into the Silmarillion. He has an enormous vocabulary from his reading, and he absorbs stuff like a sponge. He had an incident with one of his TA's in Philosophy at U. of Western Ontario because the TA though he had swiped the paper he turned in. Half an hour's conversation with the professor fixed that, and the TA was highly enlightened to find that there might be undergrads who were smarter than he.

However, we are off topic. I believe we were discussing the trend towards sales of youth oriented books on paper? Shall we continue this, or pick a new subject?

  Edited May 17, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Rant away, I agree with you. I tend to read anything that comes my way, but I stopped reading the Celtic cycle trilogy about 2/3 of the way though the last volume because it was getting repetitious and starting to feel like a pot boiler. I have fought my way though some stinkers, but never quite this bad.

Kids books are fine in some respects provided there is something to learn in them. I agree the present trend towards the macabre is getting tiring. It is nothing new, it has happened before. I think Mary Shelly and Bram Stoker should get moved to a warmer part of the inferno for starting this junk up.

At least Dr. Seuss was harmless as well as educational. Some of the Hardy Boys series should maybe be updated and republished. I think the Nancy Drew stuff is current enough. An injection of modern forensics wouldn't hurt some of these, as long as it is made clear that a forensic examination can take a very long time. For example, DNA profiles do not pop up over night. Too much physical chemistry involved isolating the strands.

Good youth fantasy is fine with me. I rather like the ones that are around now where some teenagers turn out to be by-blows of the Greek gods (and are, perforce, demi-gods). Very little harm in this kind of super hero tale, and more broadening than the Superman comics.

I also like the good vs. evil stuff exemplified by the Harry Potter books, and for better readers, J.R.R. Tolkien. To get the most out of Tolkien's stuff, though, kids need a preceptor or a discussion group. Even The Hobbit is hard going at times unless you have the referents.

So, onwards and upwards with the trend towards paper books. It is good business, and should help to cool the electronics craze.

  Edited May 18, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[airman15 4,111]

So, onwards and upwards with the trend towards paper books. It is good business, and should help to cool the electronics craze.

To me, It's good to keep paper books. I have them in case of a power outage or if I happen to run into some sort of problem when I go camping (manuals and handbooks). The only downside is you need light to read them and if you go camping as much as I do (usually once a month over the weekend), you will find that light is not available 24/7. But still, if you have paper books, keep them. They may not be the most environmentally friendly thing to make, but I can almost guarantee you they will last a whole lot longer than books as files on computers, iPads and Amazon Kindles.

[FreewayofFlight 41]

AAA is releasing an Android App where motorists can find restaurants, hotels, and other attractions while on a road trip. Does anyone else see the blazing irony in this?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Duplicates the functions of an advanced GPS toy. Seems like a copy cat thing.

I hope Android doesn't turn out to be the same kind of curse as Windows. They've gone and invented the wheel again, when there is perfectly good public domain stuff available. The only thing remarkable about Android is the GUI. This is almost as bad as Oracle trying to buy all the software in the world. Foo. I've switched from Open Office (theirs) to Libre Office. Same meat, but the gravy comes from the Free Software Consortium.

All they had to do for Android was Linux + a new XORG GUI. I haven't seen the specs for Android, but all operating software must do the same things, notwithstanding handsprings on the interface.

[un1 41]

Ever run into a chap named Guy Middleton?

Nope.

Fort Francis and Port Arthur;

Fort William*

I've heard that the Android is very easy to code and is "easy enough I could do it" (that guy was never very nice..). Out of all the industries, consumer electronics is by far the one I hate the most. I mean, do you really need to replace your iPad after a year just to be cool!? Last I checked you could live without 2 perfectly functioning iPads. *sigh* I guess that's just fads, I really hope the consumer electronic one ends really soon though.

[Meg 368]

Out of all the industries, consumer electronics is by far the one I hate the most. I mean, do you really need to replace your iPad after a year just to be cool!? Last I checked you could live without 2 perfectly functioning iPads. *sigh* I guess that's just fads, I really hope the consumer electronic one ends really soon though.

Don't bet on it. There will always be someone who has to have the newest, coolest thing.

I stopped by to check when my cell contract expires and what kind of credit I would get for a new phone. Turns out I can get a $30 credit now, or within the next few months. The sales guy told me that I just had to have this new phone that had just been released the day before yesterday and I could be among the first to have one.

The day before yesterday? Is he kidding? I refuse to buy stuff that is that new. Who knows, it might need to have duct tape on it in order to get a signal.

I'll let someone else shake out the kinks and buy it when its been tested and the price is lower.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Out of all the industries, consumer electronics is by far the one I hate the most. I mean, do you really need to replace your iPad after a year just to be cool!? Last I checked you could live without 2 perfectly functioning iPads. *sigh* I guess that's just fads, I really hope the consumer electronic one ends really soon though.

Don't bet on it. There will always be someone who has to have the newest, coolest thing.

I stopped by to check when my cell contract expires and what kind of credit I would get for a new phone. Turns out I can get a $30 credit now, or within the next few months. The sales guy told me that I just had to have this new phone that had just been released the day before yesterday and I could be among the first to have one.

The day before yesterday? Is he kidding? I refuse to buy stuff that is that new. Who knows, it might need to have duct tape on it in order to get a signal.

I'll let someone else shake out the kinks and buy it when its been tested and the price is lower.

just find out what new phone they will give you for free.

I dont think iv ever actualy paid for a cell phone. every time i have a contract renewal or the phone i have craps out i have a free upgrade due.if they wont give you a free phone Just tell them

"hey sprint or MCI or any other company is offering a free phone" if i sign with them.

the same argument will work with cable tv/internet providers if they try to raise your rates.they dont like when you ask why you should pay more then a new customer.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Sorry, yes, Fort William.

If Android is so easy to code, it must come with some extremely limited VHLL^* that lets you link up a lot of predefined routines, something like a pipe in UNIX and other operating systems. I don't see anyone's data base being easy to access. I think SQL is as far as it goes in that regard, no matter how you set up your scheme (for non-db types, that's pronounced skeemee, and it is plural). Wonder how easy it is to hack and set up malware. If it is so popular, it will be the next target. Does it come with a firewall? An anti-virus? Since it has been spreading like a weaponized virus, I'll bet not.

________________

* VHLL ::= Very High Level Language - a super programming language designed for application generation.

  Edited May 20, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[hamsterTK 93]

Personally, I predict that most people in the future will be able to fill much of their entertainment needs with only one or two simple devices that cost the equivalent of $100-200(in 2011 dollars/purchasing power, who knows what the actual amount will be).

Some rich people will always by new stuff...whatever- but everyone else will be lucky that things are actually affordable. This is the real lesson to draw from all this. Saying everyone should buy less stuff and stuff should be more expensive and scarce really means that some people would have nothing and others would still be wasteful.

[Meg 368]

Well, the issue is buying stuff for the sake of buying stuff. I know people who have to have the newest, coolest gadget simply because it is the newest, coolest gadget. Never mind that their current gadget works just fine and serves their needs. This is one way to create a credit card bill that they can't afford.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Speaking of credit cards, our nice, new, shiny leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition here in the frozen north has an election platform plank that was the capping of credit card interest rates at five per cent per annum. Wouldn't that cause a fine kettle of fish. Credit would be as tight as it was in the 1960s before all this insanity started.

Most people who have cards now, would not if that was the case. A full credit check and proof of real income would be needed to get any card. The chances are that the only outfit that survived this would be the one that was there before the rate relaxation, American Express.

I had an AMEX card when they were hard to get, and Visa and Master Card didn't exist. Since you could not carry a balance on that card, you were damned careful where and when you used it. I have become so disgusted now by the current mess that I don't have any credit cards anymore, just a debit card.

You want to see a Wall St. crash? Slam limits like this on credit, and watch everyone go into credit management and or bankruptcy.

Don't forget that the Bible says any rate above 10% is usury.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Ever since I started listening to CD's, I have always loved Spanish Language music, particularly North American music. After I got into Rap and Hip-Hop, I discovered reggaeton and raperos.

Until, I started going to college I would read at least 1 book a month but when I got into college I became too busy for the 1000+ paged books, novels, and tomes so I stopped reading books and read half as many magazines (I used to read Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, Seattle Metropolitan, Gourmet, Scientific American, Nintendo Power, PC Mag, PC Gamer, and pick up other random magazines every once in a while, now I only read Popular Science, Scientific American, and an occasional PC Gamer, Seattle Metropolitan, and food related magazine). When I had free time, I no longer had as many things to read, so I read articles on the internet. Now, I archive binge every month.

About fancy electronics: I only buy new phones when my old phone breaks or is stolen (which happens more often then I would like). My current smartphone is an iPhone 4 but I wanted to get the (normally) cheaper Droid 2 but there was a sale going on that if I upgraded from an older iPhone model to the iPhone 4, I would pay less than I would for the Droid so I got a 64 GB iPhone 4.

About Credit cards. I don't have one but my KeyBank Gold MasterCard Debit can be used like one. I never want a credit card, I am irresponsible enough with my Debit card.

  Edited May 20, 2011 by Ilikeseattle  

[Easy Bakes 253]

More Idiocracy

[Ocram's Razr 963]

So what, color changing beer labels to tell you if your drink was put in the fridge (or freezer). My family prefers good wines over cheap beer.