18 Shot at Arizona Grocery Store Including Congresswoman

[thepokemaniac 18]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/08/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

So sad...

[nathanthemayor 1,261]

Oh boy. Did anyone get killed?

So sad...;(quote>

[thepokemaniac 18]

"

(CNN)

-- Six people were killed and 12 others wounded -- including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords -- in a shooting outside a Tucson, Arizona, grocery store where the congresswoman was holding a constituent meeting, police said."

Kinda disgusting to me that a 9 year old girl was also reported dead at the hospital.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Tragic 6 dead so far including a 9 year old girl. Edit- From CNN the child was 9 months,unless thier speaking of another victim.

wonder if it was intentional towards the congresswoman or just random.

BTW Do we realy need  the ability to comment on news stories on web sites?

most of the time  after about the 1st 10 comments in the comments degenrates into name calling.

[WolfGuy100 12]

"Dr. Peter Rhee of University Medical Center in Tucson, said Giffords, 40, had undergone surgery for a single gunshot to the head that passed through her brain. Giffords was among five patients listed in critical condition, Rhee said."

a bullet went THROUGH a brain? Geez, that's horrible! I can't believe that happened to poor innocent people.

(EDIT: Cleaning out some swears)

[§haÅ--Ñ€ §hÅŽo 370]

Judge John Roll is now among the dead.

[Larks2242 251]

Wow, so many assassinations going on, everyone is going mad.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Tragic 6 dead so far including a 9 year old girl. Edit- From CNN the child was 9 months,unless thier speaking of another victim.

wonder if it was intentional towards the congresswoman or just random.

BTW Do we realy need  the ability to comment on news stories on web sites?

most of the time  after about the 1st 10 comments in the comments degenrates into name calling.

quote>

Just to clear it up, CNN got it wrong.  The child was 9 years old, not 9 months.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: WolfGuy100

"Dr. Peter Rhee of University Medical Center in Tucson, said Giffords, 40, had undergone surgery for a single gunshot to the head that passed through her brain. Giffords was among five patients listed in critical condition, Rhee said."

*****, a bullet went THROUGH a brain? Geez, that's horrible! I can't believe that happened to poor innocent people. (Excuse me for bad language but that is my actual reaction)quote>

Surprisingly, it is actually possible for a person to have a bullet blow clean through their skull and they escape with relatively minimal brain trauma.  Despite whatever damage the bullet caused, she appears to have basic perceptional skills and is responding well to basic commands.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Originally posted by: blade2k5

Just to clear it up, CNN got it wrong.  The child was 9 years old, not 9 months.

quote>

Well I guess that's better than a 9 month baby...still sad. Why a 9 year old? Why anyone?

Makes me frown upon the world. Nothing better to do than sigh, accept it, and listen to good music.

[nathanthemayor 1,261]

My dad said that this is not a state crime and now a Federal crime

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: nathanthemayor

My dad said that this is not a state crime and now a Federal crimequote>

murder always is.

[mightygoose 92]

"Trauma Director Rhee at the hospital said he was optimistic about recovery chances for Giffords, but noted that the bullet had gone through her brain. He said the Congresswoman was no longer in surgery."

obviously she has been playing the game of life on easy mode.... i mean really what kinda recovery is she expecting to make????

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: nathanthemayor

My dad said that this is not a state crime and now a Federal crimequote>

murder always is.quote>

If murder is always a federal crime, then why do states prosecute criminals for murder?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: nathanthemayor

My dad said that this is not a state crime and now a Federal crimequote>

murder always is.quote>

If murder is always a federal crime, then why do states prosecute criminals for murder?

quote>

Because there are to many of them.

I guess i really meant its a federal Offence.

[hym 358]

Realistically, I suspect the Feds main interest in this case stems from the fact that a federal official was among the victims.

[Finkle 14]

On Wednesday Micheal Savage show, day 2 or 3 of discussion of John P. Wheeler III murder, a caller said that the FBI only gets involved in murder cases of a Federal employees. As of a couple minutes before 1:00 AM the Congress woman was talking.......

Not to be political but the whole "Palin" target thing is dumb, in the 1990's every nightly news program used the targets for stories, I pretty sure they might still use them from time to time. not going to mention how the communist manifesto, being one of the shooters favorite books, is a competently different than those of Mrs Palin.

On a lighter side again not Political but former speaker of the house Pelosi, said that the Congress woman's husband died in the Explorer disaster, he's still alive.....

[Ocram's Razr 963]

As a federal crime of a federal offense involving multiple counts of murder. The murder deserves to be punished to the maximum punishment of the law, Capital Punishment. Some states abolished it but the country has not. I saw on CNN that the suspect was apprehended but uninjured when reported. I am really surprised that no one shot at him.

[GMT 389]

think some rednecks got the tea-party thing a lil wrong.

At least it's quite a coincidence that Giffords office is among those health care reform supporters who's offices got vandalized and now she gets litereally (but luckily unsuccessfully) assassinated after winning another election slightely ahead of a tea party candidate.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: GMT

think some rednecks got the tea-party thing a lil wrong.

At least it's quite a coincidence that Giffords office is among those health care reform supporters who's offices got vandalized and now she gets litereally (but luckily unsuccessfully) assassinated after winning another election slightely ahead of a tea party candidate.

quote>

Nnn... no, that's not really a surprising coincidence at all. They are two completely different crimes perpetuated by completely different people. And I wouldn't say that this came "after winning another election", the election was two months ago. Besides, post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Now, granted, one might be tempted to assume that the shooter was of a conservative persuasion based on the fact that the victim was a Democrat and based on the fact that he was using a gun (crazies on the left are usually peace-loving hippies and they hate guns), but we don't really know. What we do know is that, like with any political issue, each side is going to point fingers at the other, without any actual facts to base their accusations on. And supposed facts which do come up are going to be of dubious validity. For example:

Originally posted by: Finkle

not going to mention how the communist manifesto, being one of the shooters favorite books, is a competently different than those of Mrs Palin.quote>

Source please?

[GMT 389]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Nnn... no, that's not really a surprising coincidence at all. They are two completely different crimes perpetuated by completely different people. And I wouldn't say that this came "after winning another election", the election was two months ago. Besides, post hoc ergo proctor hoc?quote>

... propter hoc

These might be different crimes, but that doesn't mean there can't be any connection. Many are complaining about rougher tempers in the political US since the tea party stuff started in 09.

According to eyewitnesses, the guy went straight for her, shot her and then fired around. Further news state he's mentally ill and authorities are investigating (very) likely backers or at least abetters.

I know I'm speculating and to some this sounds completely off track, but a supposedly mentally ill young man effectively assassinating a politician and the police et al don't think he acted on his own leads to certain conclusions

[Odainsaker 2,133]

The tragic ironies and coincidences only get worse, for the 9-year-old murder victim Christina Greene is reported to have had the birthdate of Sept. 11, 2001, the same day as the infamous terror attacks that savaged the nation.

It is now reported that 20 were shot, with 6 of them killed.  The shooter I suspect will likely have obsessive and contradictory anti-government/anarchist/conspiracist rants that transcend both left-wing and right-ring politics. Rarely does anyone manage to capture grandstanding mass-shooters alive for questioning, so it will be informative to see what can be extracted from this one.

Still, sadly, we shouldn't be too surprised...many have noted how poisonously fringed the public political climate has become in the past few years, and amidst that backdrop hardening border-state Arizona has also gained a reputation among travelling Texans I know as seemingly requiring a greater sense of personal caution. Sloshing gasoline around tends to make things dangerous, and Arizona has been at the national forefront of inflammatory contentiousness for some time now. There is no predicting what delusions a closeted killer will eat up in such a heated environment.

[Samness 104]

Especially bad for me. I live in Tucson, and I know exactly where it was, in the really nice part of town, at Oracle and Ina. 6 people were killed, and the Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in severe condition. No words to describe this, only an emoticon.

[GMT 389]

Originally posted by: Finkle

not going to mention how the communist manifesto, being one of the shooters favorite books, is a competently different than those of Mrs Palin.quote>

Interesting. German rainbow-press-like newspaper "Bild" (or better, it's website) claims his favorite book is Hitler's "Mein Kampf", which is pretty much the exact opposite to the communist manifesto

EDIT: well the site claims he stated both "Mein Kampf" and the communist manifesto to be his favorite books. omg.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Notwithstanding all of the gabble so far, the chief question is how did the shooter get a weapon that could do so much damange in such short order?  The answer, my friends, is blowin' in the wind and the U.S. Consitution.

Wake up, America!  Your love affair with being armed is killing you.  You need to do something soon.

[GMT 389]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Notwithstanding all of the gabble so far, the chief question is how did the shooter get a weapon that could do so much damange in such short order?  The answer, my friends, is blowin' in the wind and the U.S. Consitution.

Wake up, America!  Your love affair with being armed is killing you.  You need to do something soon.

quote>

Apart from this belonging into the 2nd amendment threat (edit: it was a typo, but I'll keep it as a pun), I like to say what I always say in such moments:

It's not the gun that kills, it's the person using it.

Banning guns doesn't stop people from killing others. Period.

If somebody wants to kill, he/she does it by any means necessary. There's more than enough things that can be (ab)used to kill.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Originally posted by: GMT

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Notwithstanding all of the gabble so far, the chief question is how did the shooter get a weapon that could do so much damange in such short order?  The answer, my friends, is blowin' in the wind and the U.S. Consitution.

Wake up, America!  Your love affair with being armed is killing you.  You need to do something soon.

quote>

Apart from this belonging into the 2nd amendment threat (edit: it was a typo, but I'll keep it as a pun), I like to say what I always say in such moments:

It's not the gun that kills, it's the person using it.

Banning guns doesn't stop people from killing others. Period.

If somebody wants to kill, he/she does it by any means necessary. There's more than enough things that can be (ab)used to kill.

quote>

\

Quite true, but you don't have to let these perps have a fire hose if you can keep them down to garden hoses.

And I did put a post in the 2nd amendment thread.  Maybe you'ld like to joint the debate there.

[Meg 368]

Yes, let's have that discussion over in the 2nd amendment thread.  This thread is about the shooting in Arizona.

[Finkle 14]

So Hitler was not a National Socialist...... wow that's different from what I was taught.

How is the second amendment (or right to have a gun) hurting us, should he have used a knife so Canadians like You (@nonnymoose) could tells us stake cutting Americans that the right to knifes is killing us....... Pretty neat how Canada does not have any guns or gun crimes,

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Finkle

So Hitler was not a National Socialist...... wow that's different from what I was taught.

How is the second amendment (or right to have a gun) hurting us, should he have used a knife so Canadians like You (@nonnymoose) could tells us stake cutting Americans that the right to knifes is killing us....... Pretty neat how Canada does not have any guns or gun crimes,quote>

This thread is about events in Arizona, remember?

So far the discussion has revolved around three points:

-  Arizona has very relaxed laws about gun ownership

-  That jurisdiction was on a map with crosshairs on it while someone was saying "reload!"

-  The shooter is a nutjob.

There has been other discussion as well:   Credit is being given to the array of people who tackled and disarmed this guy.   My favorite is the woman who sounds like she is older than I am who going after the second round of ammo before he could reload it.   Who says us little old ladies just cower in corners?  This is the second time in a few weeks one of us has gone after a gunman.

Edit:  in the "what is wrong with people?" category, we have this headline:

Westboro Baptist Church to picket funeral of 9-year-old Tucson shooting victim

Can someone tell me what this child could possibly have done to offend these fools?