Road Customization - "Rush Hour" style expansion

[weid23 0]

looking at the posts around regarding transportation and roads i think Focus should consider redesigning the road building tool (along with the addition of separate above ground rail for freight & passengers). I also think the way you set up your cities commuting options should have a direct effect on demand for parking in certain areas - if you create a city that relies on cars in high density areas there should be a demand for parking that we need to accommodate (not meeting the demand would have a negative affect on business or residential growth opportunities - this can be meet by adding public transports and/or addition off street parking)

Customized roads:

I find the current system of scrolling through set road designs very cumbersome & annoying - and i cant quite get my roads the way i want them. I think there should be 4 or 5 preset options for lazy people and a completely customizable tool to allow the rest of us to create the roads we want specific to certain areas. The options could/should include the following:

* Number Of Lanes: 1 to 8 in each direction (with the ability to specify 1 way only OR different lane counts in opposite directions). We should be able to have designed bus/taxi lanes to help promote public transport options

* Lane Width - narrow / normal / wide. The combination of lanes & lane width will determine the Road Speed

* Median Strip - on/off function (not available for one-way street design). Adding median strips to large, multi-lane roads would again allow increased Road Speed. Some inner-city median stripes also have parking spaces - would be a nice touch to those high-rise CBD areas. Space to add trams & other light rail would be a fantastic option.

* Road Side - parking & emergency stopping lanes options. Parking options should include parallel, 45 degree etc

* Sidewalk - various types & widths to suit different areas of wealth . Some areas should just have basic concrete sidewalk (think low res / industrial) Other would have wide bricked sidewalks with benches & trees etc. You should also be able to set the distance from the road & zones so you have the ability to upgrade/expand later or so the high wealth low density residents can have plenty of space/distance from roads - distance to road (depending on type/speed/congestion) should be a factor for the the different types & densities of residents.

* Intersections - all intersections need to be customizable to control/influence the flow of traffic. Turning on/off features such as traffic lights (forced to yes once you reach a certain width/speed/congestion), round about, pedestrian crossing, and auto bridged/tunneling options if you don't want to intersect with another road

* Merging/Slip Lanes - need to be able create merging/slip lanes for all roads rather than always having intersections. Then we need to be be able extend the length of merging lanes if traffic congestion grows - the choice is then yours

Upgrading Options

once you have designed & laid out your road its width should be a determining factor in upgrades & enhancements for adding lanes, upgrading sidewalks. If the section of road you want to upgrade doesn't have buildings zone one one side (or both) you should be able to upgrade/expand as much as you want. If a particular section of your road becomes congested you should be able to add lanes (in both/either direction) for specific areas/lengths - The road should adding merging lanes as it expands in/out not a traffic light intersection in the middle of nowhere!

Traffic Adviser

* when there is a problem with traffic congestion we should be pointed to the specific area in question (im sure this function is in SC4)

* if there is a high volume of car traffic to and from a certain areas (think residents to industrial) but the player has not recognized this we should a message pop up to highlight this.

Rail & Station Options

* Light Rail - i don't think there is much debate that this is an expected addition in the near future. I would hope that basic rail & station options are included that work in conjunction with the current subway system. I would also like to see trams available - depending on options & forward planning the trams would either be built on top of existing roads on in the median strips.

* Light Rail Stations - should be built in various sizes to meet local demand - EG low density residential VS high density commerce. We should also be able to set a number of bus stops attached to these stations & the size of the car parking (if any)

* Intercity commuting & freight - wider rail option. These tracks can commute the long freight trains & high speed intercity passenger trains (tourist & commuter). Tracks require much longer straights, less ground elevation

* Public Transport Hubs/Stations - assuming bus, tram, subway, light & heavy rail options all exist we should be able to create stations/hubs where they can all come together - Imagine a central public transport hub in the middle of your CBC where high speed intercity rail connects with your light rail & subway systems with various bus or tram routes to carry people all over your CDB. Station/Hub sizes would vary depending on how many lines/connections are coming in.

Put all of these ideas into a Rush Hour style expansion for almost the same price as CXL 2011 and i think Focus will knock off SimCity as the king of city builders

[DaveParker 0]

Good luck with that.

I'd like to see those kinda of things also, along with being able to set a lane up as a cycle lane which I'm pretty sure was promised before the original Cities XL.

My #1 desired feature is the ability to rename roads and/or buildings though. Something similar to SimCity's street labelling tool, or maybe just make the panel at the right that opens when you select a road segment or building editable would be great, that way parts of my city have more of an identity rather than being continuous sprawl. I tend to make up names for different areas anyway in my head but this is difficult to keep track of.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I am glad that you have a detailed list and a plan. As far as I know, the lane width for all roads is exactly the same, just some roads have paved (non sidewalk) areas in the middle (median) or side (shoulder) that the cars cannot use. If lane width was adjustable, then I would love to see 20x20m roads in several City Life style flavors. Now, I do see one small problem here: there is no way to upgrade a road to take up more space because that would mess with all of its intersections. The only way to do this is to have a clear section that is not used on one or both sides that can be used in an upgrade.

[dedgren 830]

Isn't it funny that a significant number of the features listed are already fully or partly implemented in SC4?

Don't even mention that much of that was done by the user community- something that is not currently foreseeable with Cities XL.

It's great to dream, but I'd rather use my time playing with a great city builder that's available right now.

David

[Walden95 8]

I like your ideas; they are very well thought out. Something like this could add a lot more depth to the transportation systems in the game. Too add on it, I believe that they could add a type of disaster with this. Accidents, breakdowns, and other difficulties cause vehicles, either road or rail based, to slow down or stop. Such events cause your transit network efficiency to plummet. Ways to improve efficiency would be through ordnance, (I still wonder why they don't have these in the game)  increasing your emergency funding or adding more effectively placed emergency stations, or changing roads to allow for emergency lanes. Too boot, it might be cool to add a map tag or new map view to see where the most accidents are taking place so you can effectively take care of them. simple things like this would really add a lot to gameplay value.

[weid23 0]

thanks for the feedback guys - as you can tell the road systems are my passion when it comes to city builders

at the moment im trying to get decent over/under passes working for expressways & large avenues to avoid traffic congestion at intersections - but without on/off ramps the system ends up somewhat unsatisfactory anyway!

can anyone tell me why you can not place bus stops along expressways? im Aussie so im not familiar with the term 'expressway' - looks just like a larger version of large avenue....

@ walden - i think the concept of traffic problems causing problems with the public transport is a fantastic idea! This would be best served as part of the bus system. I think they need to add a 'frequency' item to each public transport route/type - very busy routes should be able to have buses/metro/rail that come by very frequently, while quite suburbian areas wouldnt need as much frequentcy. Obviously there would be a limit to each service - and a trade off in cost vs frequency.

[EAGCE 2]

Originally posted by: dedgren

Isn't it funny that a significant number of the features listed are already fully or partly implemented in SC4?

Don';t even mention that much of that was done by the user community- something that is not currently foreseeable with Cities XL.

It's great to dream, but I'd rather use my time playing with a great city builder that's available right now.

Davidquote>

Too bad SC4 has a horrible traffic simulator.

[MandelSoft 2,770]

^^ Well, the CitiesXL traffic simulator has its quirks too. The game sees no difference between a road and a freeway. If you lay down a road and a freeway right next to each other, but just make the freeway a few meters longer (almost an insignificant difference), people will still choose the road over the freeway 

The SimCity4 traffic simulator is actually not that horrible, but it has its limits.

Best,

Maarten

[soltangris 42]

^^ Well, the CitiesXL traffic simulator has its quirks too. The game sees no difference between a road and a freeway. If you lay down a road and a freeway right next to each other, but just make the freeway a few meters longer (almost an insignificant difference), people will still choose the road over the freeway 

 

That's not true, according to my experience. People will go for the larger roads if they lead to their destination. Proof? Larger avenues/expressways always get times more use then roads.

It seems though that the traffic engine doesn't include speed considerations - highway speed is the same as simple road speed, but has much bigger capacity (it could take more cars at a time). That's an explanation why people will take a road over an Expressway, if the road is the shortest route and if it's not congested. ?And since its capacity is much smaller than an Expressway, the road wiill get congested soon, forcing people to the Expressway.

To the OP: I like many of your ideas; I was thinking myself along the 'fully customizable' road building tool lines... But I think you're making it a bit too complex, especially when it comes to parking. This is currently missing from the game completely, and its addition will probably cost a great dea lof work, without adding much to the gameplay. I would prefer for the attention to be concentrated on lanes and width control, the addition/exclusion of sidewalks and medians, and those actually having an effect on gameplay:

- Sidewalks and medians (with trees or gardens, or something else decorative) should have positive Environmental effect.

- You could replace them with lanes, if you wish, but you'll lose the environmental efect.

- If you exclude sidewalks, you can't place bus stops. By the way weid, that's why you can't place bus stops on Expressways - they don't have sidewalks, and there's where the stop goes.

 

You should be able to increase width of a stretch of road, if there's space. I guess the current intersection-to-intersection system could do, although the ideal would be if you were able to select (click and drag) a definite stretch of road. But maybe that's kinda hard to program.

I definitely agree with the Merge lanes, but also - we should be able to connect two roads without intersections!

- First of all, I think the smallest roads (small road and farm roads) shouldn't make any intersection at all (not traffic light, no crosswalk), regardless of what they connect to. Thus cars there will have to wait, and the bigger roads won't get additional congestion points.

- Second, we need an on- off-ramp tool! Make two sizes (on lane and two lanes), one-directional, curved by default, able to connect under any angle (including the sharpest merging angles) and without intersection. It should also be able to change height, so you could raise it to connect to elevated roads. You could use it with any road above Large avenue.

That's all we need , and then watch those  custom interchanges!  

[Ocram's Razr 964]

In City Life, small roads with large sidewalks gave a small environment boost, medium roads (1 lane each way avenue) gave a medium environment boost, 2 lane highways made no change to environment, and 3 lane highways (no sidewalk) lowered environment a small amount. All of the roads were 20x20m so I guess the lanes were 3 meters wide.

[weid23 0]

@ soltangris

Your probably correct regarding overcomplicating the customized road creation tool - just wanted to throw all my ideas into one basket and see what ppl thought. The parking options are really not needed just yet. The basic tool definately needs the following to be useful:

- number of lanes

- lane width (speed multiplier)

- median options (speed multipler)

- sidewalk options (environment addition + road maitenance increase)

- intersection management: with/without traffic lights (& directional priority) & auto change intesection in round-about

- On/off ramps for highways/expressways/avenues

[masochist 111]

If you were around during the early, early stages of "Cities Unlimited," you might remember that Monte Cristo had plans for a totally customizable road feature called the Mass Placement Tool similar to the one you proposed. It would've allowed us to choose the number of lanes on each side of the road, designate what each lane was for (vehicle traffic, busses only, bike lanes, HOV, etc.), whether or not to have sidewalks, among other things. It wasn't implemented into the final game, obviously...but maybe that's a good thing. It doesn't have to be that complicated...for example:

Have icons for the basic road types: Expressways, Large Avenue (small sidewalks/large sidewalks); Small Avenue (small/large sidewalks); Road (grass sidewalk/non-grass sidewalk); Street. Eight icons total. Each road type only determines what kind of median/sidewalks each has (Large Avenue has a split median; Small avenue only has double lines, Expressways have the barrier, etc.). Then, using the options menu that you get when you click and hold on each icon, allow us to change how many lanes for regular traffic (up to x amount on each side for each road type), how many lanes dedicated for buses, median/sidewalk decorations, etc., all using drop-down menus. And if you don't change any options, you get the default amount of lanes/median/etc. (and of course, one-way options would remain the same as they are now).

If it were that simple, I'd be ridiculously happy with just those options, to tell the truth.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Actually, the mass placement tool was for free form zoning that included 4 sizes. The custom interchange tool was for highways/freeways (fast lanes) and possibly expressways, but the road tool was called something else, "The Multi Lane Tool."

[soltangris 42]

So, they were working on an interchange tool! O hell, how I wanna have this!

[Jesse Swiss 6]

Urghh.... that makes me mad, we could of had a great tool

[Cob92 360]

Originally posted by: mrtnrln

^^ Well, the CitiesXL traffic simulator has its quirks too. The game sees no difference between a road and a freeway. If you lay down a road and a freeway right next to each other, but just make the freeway a few meters longer (almost an insignificant difference), people will still choose the road over the freeway .

Best,

Maarten
quote>

That describes my experience with SC4 more so than CXL, and is a big reason that I tend to prefer CXL nowadays. In SC4, cars could always be seen packing into overcrowded side streets simply because the street was slightly shorter than the freeway, never mind the fact that the traffic jams probably tripled commute times. In CXL, I've found that traffic tends to funnel into the largest, fastest roads available, which is much closer to real life traffic patterns.