EBLT - European House Add-On (EHA) Thread

[Gn_leugim 858]

Hi everyone

First of all, let me introduce you the European House Add-On, EHA. EHA is my own project to make some new houses, and maybe in future commercial buildings too, using both size, specs, families and lots from maxis homes. what are the advantages?? I'll quote Cogeo's reply on this matter for you

 

Usually what is released is a BAT (and bulding), along with a single lot (or maybe with a ploppable version too); no lot variations, no different lot dimensions, sizes or growth stages. All these actually require significant effort, which most custom content developers apparently are not willing to make. Therefore why not avoid lotting completely, and instead make BATs (buildings) that comply to certain simple standards, and are thus possible to grow on the professionally designed Maxis lots?

While the work made by Maxis as far as lotting is concerned is very good actually, players still complain of getting repetitevely the same buildings, especially if a single building style is selected. This is easy to explain, simply the building collection is not extensive enough. Many families consist of three, two, or often just one member! So the simulator (combine this with the growth stage too) may have very few, if not just one option! Therefore extending the families, can be the preferred way to go, esp if one wants to concentrate on BATting and avoid tinkering with providing all the aforementioned lot variations. Making a BAT (and a building exemplar) that can grow on Maxis lots can be much better than releasing a single lot, no matter how many props it has, or how good it looks (of course generally speaking). Modding can be much easier too. One can simply copy-and-paste all properties from a similar Maxis building, and change only a few things like the names (Exemplar Name name and User Visible Name Key) and Resource Key Type 1 - all others being the same. This can be very acceptable.

So,

• No unbalances duo to miscalculated occupancy\size ratio. they will no overgrow, nor grow very few, they will grow equally to maxis buildings;
• Following the above, you have for sure that they will grow, given that you have European tile set selected;
• Lower size plugins, because all you download is the model and his description file. no lot files, because they will use maxis lots to grow on
• Multilanguage files. I try as far as I can include the following languages:

• English (both USA and UK)
• German
• French
• Spanish
• Italian
• Portuguese

Also, diagonal versions of the same models will be made, to be used in special lots, to make diagonal buildings growable (still testing).

So, I'll be leaving the development of this project and leave also a list of buildings done, buildings being done and to be done Hope you enjoy.

Label: To Be Done (TBD) / On Progress (OP) / Done Waiting Upload (DWU)

Residential Low Wealth (R$)

4x10: / /TBD
6X8: /TBD
8x10: / TBD
16x8(w2w): / TBD
10x24: / /TBD
16x30 (w2w): / /(DWU) / TBD
28x24: Azuleijitos Apartment / TBD
28x22: TBD
(New!)16x32 (w2w): Houses in the corner (DWU) /TBD
40x44: (LEX)/ TBD

Residential Mid Wealth (R$$)

10x14: / / TBD
12x10: / House with View /  TBD
12x14: / / TBD
(new!)16x8 (w2w): / TBD
(new!)16x12(w2w): / TBD
16x16(w2w): / TBD
16x20 (w2w): TBD
24x30: / TBD
28x20: TBD
28x28: TBD

Residential High Wealth (R$$$)

16x20: TBD
20x20: TBD
24x14: / TBD
20x24: TBD
24x28: TBD
28x26: TBD
32x32(w2w): TBD

  Edited March 2, 2013 by Gn_leugim  

[Gn_leugim 858]

(reserved for future use )

[Gn_leugim 858]

well, first try on the 4x10 R$

In the middle you can see one counterpart of his kind of maxis, for comparison.

more to come soon.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

Nice to see you back at BATing! Wonderful start to a promising project. I think it is a good idea to use existing assets (BATs) to continually improve the game. I know there area a few great single family house BATs that would go well with the concept, the only issue would be getting sufficient permissions (or worst case scenario, make new .desc files and link models as dependencies).

Nicely done little (tiny) house. Best of luck to you,

-Todd

[Gn_leugim 858]

@SimHoTToDDy: Thank you for the welcome in there are, thou the sizes may not fit right, but we could always twist them a bit and voil

[Gn_leugim 858]

UPDATE:

I've made the R$ 6x8, tell me our thoughts, as I will change a bit the textures yet..

Ty for reviewing

[Gn_leugim 858]

UPDATE: (sorry for triple post, but or my buildings are so good and leave people speechless, or they are so crappy that no one comments lol)

I've rendered and put the last house on game, and it is working fine

meanwhile, new one started: R$ 8x10

mine, and it's counterpart of maxis.

nitelits yet to be done

Tell me your thoughts

[Alex_Bervoets 91]

I love them... they give sim-city that little European touch...

Keep 'em coming, more buildings mean more realism!

I was planning on doing some belgian houses as well in the future

[Gn_leugim 858]

Thanks for the cooments, i'll be making some upload spam soon

[T Wrecks 10,210]

It's amazing to see how even the smallest buildings can be done a lot better than their cartoonish Maxis counterparts. Small villages should benefit enormously from these houses. I really love everything I've seen so far, and decent single-family homes haven't been done in what seems like ages.

[Gn_leugim 858]

Thanks for the reply T Wrecks. actually, the monotony of single house I was getting at my cities was one of the motives that take me make this. there isn't a lot of good houses, let alone European ones. Soon you will be able to have more

[Gn_leugim 858]

Updated the list, and BAT's uploaded

[nathanthemayor 1,263]

Looks great!

[cogeo 960]

It's just amazing that someone finally has taken up the task of extending the Maxis building families!  

We have to admit that Maxis has actually made a good job as far as lotting is concerned:
- Buldings are grouped into families of similarly sized buildings, featuring about the same footprint and height, as well as similar stats. Then the lots use these families, rather than specific buildings. In many cases, a family may only contain one building for each style (Chicago, NY, Houston, Euro), ie four buildings in total, but it may contain more too, adding variety.
- A family may be used in many lot variations, ie with different props and textures, placement or orientation, or different lot dimensions, eg both 2x3 and 3x2. All These add more variety too.
- Also a family may be used in lots of different dimensions and growth stages. For example, a family may be used in lots of higher growth stages but smaller (or the opposite). This makes stage transitions and growth smoother and more gradual.
- Use of props is quite consistent, reasonable and standardized, delivering a somewhat "conservative", though very acceptable result.

No offense to various lotmakers, but most lots released are not even close to what is called the "Maxis standard". Usually what is released is a BAT (and bulding), along with a single lot (or maybe with a ploppable version too); no lot variations, no different lot dimensions, sizes or growth stages. All these actually require significant effort, which most custom content developers apparently are not willing to make. Therefore why not avoid lotting completely, and instead make BATs (buildings) that comply to certain simple standards, and are thus possible to grow on the professionally designed Maxis lots?

While the work made by Maxis as far as lotting is concerned is very good actually, players still complain of getting repetitevely the same buildings, especially if a single building style is selected. This is easy to explain, simply the building collection is not extensive enough. Many families consist of three, two, or often just one member! So the simulator (combine this with the growth stage too) may have very few, if not just one option! Therefore extending the families, can be the preferred way to go, esp if one wants to concentrate on BATting and avoid tinkering with providing all the aforementioned lot variations. Making a BAT (and a building exemplar) that can grow on Maxis lots can be much better than releasing a single lot, no matter how many props it has, or how good it looks (of course generally speaking). Modding can be much easier too. One can simply copy-and-paste all properties from a similar Maxis building, and change only a few things like the names (Exemplar Name name and User Visible Name Key) and Resource Key Type 1 - all others being the same. This can be very acceptable.

So gn_leugim, I can only applaud you for the series of BATs you recently released.  

Now, some... criticism:
- The four residentials are so much "similar" to the Maxis ones, that it nearly beats its purpose! Some of these grew in my city, however I didn't notice it until I checked the "historical" flag of some lots and found that "Granny's Home" had grown. So these provide very little visual differentiation, which is the main purpose of making such BATs. Maybe consider a re- (or new) release, with different textures/colours or minor (but noticable) architectural changes.
- The Building Value is much lower than that of their Maxis counterparts. This means that they will be paying far fewer taxes. I think these should be changed, to match the Maxis ones closer or exactly. Or you can simply use the Parent Cohort property, and inherit these (and many other) settings from the Maxis cohorts, instead of setting them in each exemplar individually. This would result in a much shorter exemplar, and make modding easier, better organized and less prone to errors.
- This is not your fault, but the stage-3 Granny's Home houses fewer sims than the ingame stage-2 Killburn's Kottage. For the Chicago, NY and Houston tilesets these buildings can house 12, 13 or even 15 sims. In the Euro case, this is set to just 9, an apparent discrepancy. Maybe consider a small fix (eg 11). Also take a look at this thread.
- A minor point, but the exemplar and the model archives could be combined into datfiles containing both (one for each bldg/model pair).
- For Happy Offices, building value is almost double than that of Reflect Systems, however capacity satisfied is the same!

All in all good work, only pls consider my points above.

And if you are wondering what to BAT next, I have a quite long list of suggestions (not "requests") about some other Maxis buildings that grow all over the place. Interested?

[Gn_leugim 858]

thanks Cogeo (after spending 15 minutes reading your post )

you surely catch up the spirit of the EHA project, and, write it down with a better english than mine If you dont mind I'm gonna use your text on the thread's first topic

Now, lets go for the criticism shall we?

- The four residentials are so much "similar" to the Maxis ones, that it nearly beats its purpose! Some of these grew in my city, however I didn't notice it until I checked the "historical" flag of some lots and found that "Granny's Home" had grown. So these provide very little visual differentiation, which is the main purpose of making such BATs. Maybe consider a re- (or new) release, with different textures/colours or minor (but noticable) architectural changes.

Quite strange because I think the opposite of you, I think them quite different from maxis counterparts, but this matter is subject to individual variation anyway. Still, we can’t forget one lil issue, the size of the building is already set, so I don’t have much margin of maneuver to change the building, and some of them (specially the lower cap ones) are very small, and it’s hard to go different. Anyway, color variations are possible, and may be a short future work to be done

- The Building Value is much lower than that of their Maxis counterparts. This means that they will be paying far fewer taxes. I think these should be changed, to match the Maxis ones closer or exactly. Or you can simply use the Parent Cohort property, and inherit these (and many other) settings from the Maxis cohorts, instead of setting them in each exemplar individually. This would result in a much shorter exemplar, and make modding easier, better organized and less prone to errors.

- For Happy Offices, building value is almost double than that of Reflect Systems, however capacity satisfied is the same!

I fell embareced   I forgot entirely this subject . Plus, I donno know very well how to do what you propose with the Cohort settings, my modding skills are a bit limited

- This is not your fault, but the stage-3 Granny's Home houses fewer sims than the ingame stage-2 Killburn's Kottage. For the Chicago, NY and Houston tilesets these buildings can house 12, 13 or even 15 sims. In the Euro case, this is set to just 9, an apparent discrepancy. Maybe consider a small fix (eg 11). Also take a look at this thread.

Well, about this, I'll wait to see what RippleJet will do I think

- A minor point, but the exemplar and the model archives could be combined into datfiles containing both (one for each bldg/model pair).

Well, I make them seperated to make updates and so easier, like make new model and replace

And if you are wondering what to BAT next, I have a quite long list of suggestions (not "requests") about some other Maxis buildings that grow all over the place. Interested?

 

Sure I am, as long they aren't large and are european, I am here

[cogeo 960]

Carlos, just checked the BATs again, but sorry, I think they are not very much different than the Maxis ones. They are looking really good, but you have to look carefully, to see the differences. Anyway, a matter of taste.

As for the cohorts, here is how they work:
- Every exemplar has a property called Parent Cohort. It can be 0,0,0, or point to a "Cohort" file. All properties set in the cohort are "inherited" to all its "descendants", ie all exemplars (or cohorts) having it as "parent". So setting a property in an exemplar amounts to setting it in all its descendants.
- A cohort can have a parent too. Therefore, an "hierarchy" can be setup.
- As said above, a property defined in a node is inherited to its descendants. At some lower level the property may be redefined; this is called an "override". The override affects the node it is contained into and its descendants, it doesn't go the other way. For example, you can define the Building Foundation in the cohort. This is inherited to all buildings having the cohort as a parent. Now, if for some specific building you want a different foundation, you can just set the property again (override it) in the building exemplar; this won't affect the other buildings.

To better see how the Maxis cohorts are set up, you can use the Navigator tool in the reader: open simcity_1.dat, click the Navigator button, and open a R$ 1x3 lot. You will see the building list. Do you see how few properties are defined in each building exemplar? There is a "Building Cohort" item too. If you click on it you will see some other properties defined there. These are inherited to the building exemplars. This cohort has a parent too, which contains some other properties, etc etc. And all this does make sense, for example why set the Query Sound in your building exemplar,  and not inherit it from the "Residential" cohort instead?

I have changed your descriptors (for personal use). I just made them like the Maxis buldings. Also changed Granny's Home to 11 res, so that it can be obtained as an upgrade of an existing Killburn's Kottage (stage-2, 10 res) lot as well. I have sent you the modified files, if you want to take a look (check your messages). Do you see how much easier modding can be? Most properties have been removed (these - incl the Bldg family - are actually inherited from the Maxis cohorts). The few remaining ones (like Bulldoze Cost and Worth) have been changed so that they are equal to their Maxis counterparts.

As for the building families to consider making BATs for, here are some (not all Euro though):
- Chalmers Co, a low-rise CO$$$ (all tilesets). It grows in large numbers and takes a long time before upgraded to larger buildings. Imo it's not really nice either.
- Modde Inc, a midrise CO$$$ (all tilesets). At certain growth stages this grows all over the place. It's the only member of its family. Actually I'm considering making one, or better two, myself. Preferrably these shouldn't be white.
- Bennett Music Corp and La Vine Management, two low-rise CO$$. Same as above.

All above bldgs families are used in MANY lots and many variations. Please also note that they are commercial, and their lots they often have shop facade props. So their LODshells must be sized not just "similarly", but exactly equal to their Maxis counterparts, to achieve a good result.

Other buildings:
- For all tilesets, there are only three R$$ condos. The "small" (stage-5) ones, housing about 150 sims, may grow in large numbers, before you start getting the bigger, stage-6 ones (250-350 sims). So in the Euro tileset you will be getting an awful bunch of Creightview Condos, before you start getting Grundstrom Lofts and Holiday Hi-Hut Condos. I think it would be good to have another stage-5 small condo, of the same capacity, or maybe of some 200 sims (Building Value will have to be adjusted accordingly then).
- The Houston villas, apart from an awful modern-looking one, are all colour variations of two original models. The NY collection isn't rich either. The Chicago one does feature more variety, but only the Euro set has really a somewhat satisfactory variety (more variety would be welcome here too, of course).
- The Euro "palazzo" collection is poor too (only two buildings).
- In the NY tileset, the "Fennell Corp", a midrise CO$$ growing on 3x4, 4x3 and 3x3 lots, can become very repetitive. Same goes for Chicago's similar buildings (Dolan Contractors and Miguel LLC) although they are two, not one; they look very similar though.
- Similarly, Chicago's Bunch Engineering and Ferrara Inc (CO$$$) look almost identical. They are in the same family, and grow on stage-6 2x3 lots.
- In the Euro set, Vu Blu Denim Headquarters (CO$$$) may grow over and over, and these are actually hard to be upgraded. Even worse, the same model is being used as a CS$$$ tower too!

As you can see, there are really many buildings to BAT, if you want.

[Gn_leugim 858]

Ok. Lots of new stuff to learn and use! thank you! This can surely make things easier. I have to give it some practice thou, before getting stuff uploaded and giveng CTD with no reason lol

well, now the buildings;

"- Chalmers Co, a low-rise CO$$$ (all tilesets). It grows in large numbers and takes a long time before upgraded to larger buildings. Imo it's not really nice either.

- Modde Inc, a midrise CO$$$ (all tilesets). At certain growth stages this grows all over the place. It's the only member of its family. Actually I'm considering making one, or better two, myself. Preferrably these shouldn't be white.

- Bennett Music Corp and La Vine Management, two low-rise CO$$. Same as above."

I did some quick search and some of those are familiar to me (why is that? hmm? ^^) I don't have much expertise on commercial stuff, so these should prove a challenge, even more because of the fa

[Gn_leugim 858]

Well, my first shot at a mansion\ rich house. it's for the R$$$_16x20 slot

(zoom6)

I'm showing you guys this early so I can get it corrected where it needs early, not when all is done

give me your thoughts

Thanks for reviewing

[artist 4]

It's looks clean. Perhaps the stairs are a little too small but it's hard to tell without the front doors. Now I haven't actually used the BAT before (I'm learning MAX, then the BAT), but from what I have read HD doesn't work very well in game so you might want to stay away from Zoom 6.

BTW, since you seem to enjoy creating homes, you might want to check out Archival Designs home plans. They have a great selection of plans to choose from.

For large mansions, check out John Henry's web site. He specializes in Baroque to Renaissance architecture.

Hope this helps.

[Gn_leugim 858]

Artist! that is so helpfull!!! thank you a lot

why arent the zoom 6 working well? I had no trouble so far. more upgrades on the house for soon.

[cogeo 960]

Just found that the files I sent you don't work (they don't grow). As you can see, I made them exactly like the Maxis ones, but for some weird reason they don't work. Tested it further, and found that if I set the Cohort, the buildings won't grow, even if I set all needed properties explicitly. It works for ploppables, but for growables it seems that there are some additional requirements (like ID ranges, inclusion in simcity_1.dat or who knows what). So pls delete these files.

I have reverted fo a version similar to yours. Only set Building Value and Bulldoze Cost / Worth equal to the Maxis ones. I can send you the files, if you want.

I have also found a small problem with Standing House: the model is sized ca 10x8, but it should be 8x10. The building foundation looks ugly (not equal to the house's base), if grown on slopped terrain. Also it is included in all four tilesets, not only in the Euro one.

So you're making a small/medium-sized villa. Pls consider what I posted earlier in this thread. There are four Euro mansions in this "slot", but there are only two Euro palazzos in the game!

Also checked Pleasant Blocks, but sorry, didn't like them. First of all they rather look like R$ (and as you can see in the comments it's not just me). And second, their dimensions are nowhere close to 24x30, so they won't be fitting-in very well either. I have an idea, you can remodel them to match the Euro boxy tenements, either the small (Daniel's Den), or the large ones (Der Kuube Apartments), or why not, both! This is what this architecture looks like, not to mention that both are the only members of their families (in the Euro tileset).

[Gn_leugim 858]

well, that's quite odd indeed. Guess after all my method is better to get them grow with no issues.

Ty for reporting those issues with Standing House, I'll use a small software to edit the model (do you know what? ^^) to rotate it to its proper orientation and see what's wrong with the foundations ><

I will also make palazzos, as you could see (i hope) before, I cover all families due to the low number on palazzos, I'll make more of them.

And I see I have to give more wealth to R$$ buildings then ein? =\ I though it was good, maybe I have to improve them more, add more stuff to them. And if they look so R$, I may end up using the model for making the low wealth tenements.

thanks for reviewing

[artist 4]

You're welcome . Concerning HD, I was reading a couple of Simfox's posts here as well as a few newer ones that HD only works well with small props. They look well at zoom 6 but not very well at zoom 5. From what I have been reading most Batters are staying away from HD.

Cheers

[Gn_leugim 858]

well, what Simfox says makes perfect sense. I had notice something odd on some larger models myself, but never take much attention to it. I'll turn it ND them

[mightygoose 92]

No HD

[Gn_leugim 858]

Some more developments, the roof is changeable

tell me your thoughts

[Gn_leugim 858]

just to leave an update, with textures almost done by now.

(zoom 6)

I wont render it at zoom 6, but I just like how the render looks like on 6

thanks for reviewing

[AlexandrosB13 184]

it looks very very nice! i like the whole building and plants make it more beautiful! Great job!

[Gn_leugim 858]

ty for your kind words

[Gn_leugim 858]

just to leave an update, an ingame picture, next to its conterpart