What Would It Take for You

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

Hi All,

Lots has been said on "why I hate PO", "I refuse to pay monthly fee", "greed is evil" etc. Here, I wish to discuss "what would make me love PO" or "what could Planet Offer offer me to make me want to pay to play"...

I'm a practical, win-win sort. It's been obvious to me from the start PO is the actual game; the Single Player version is just a bait so I was prepared for a crippled offline game. Business model and moral debates aside, what truly matters, is a meeting of expectations on both sides. I do wish for CitiesXL team to survive and thrive so that I GET TO HAVE FUN building my towns and cities. So if that means "sponsoring the team monthly" with a movie ticket price per month, hey why not!

But however pent-up I am with city-shaping desires, I'm not in love. I won't invest unless certain basic criteria are met. Right now, CitiesXL or PO haven't met these criteria.

For most, the bottomline of signing with PO are probably COST, NET AVAILABILITY ISSUE, and FUN FACTOR.

I am a working adult and am not involved with other MMO so I could afford $100-200 a year on this fav pc game. Cost is not my issue.

Net Availability is an issue. Having broadband account/s at home/work doesn't lead to 24/7 connection. I'm lucky to be living in a first world city with cheap broadband and citywide wifi. Yet like most people I'm still at the mercy of local net traffic, schizo/stingy telcos, unique study/work/home/travelling circumstances. Not knowing if I could play my online cities offline, anytime anywhere I want, I remain uncommitted to the PO idea.

But ultimately, what matters the most to me, is, IS THIS WHOLE GAME EXPERIENCE FUN ENOUGH FOR ME TO COMMIT?

Well, not really. Since installing CTXL I have built a few cities including a 200000 pop one. Nice curvy roads and amazing freeform zoning tool. Interesting economy logic, handsome bridges. But overall, CitiesXL is equally fun, AND PAIN to play.

The PAIN FACTORS in CitiesXL

1. NO BUS/TRAINS/AIRPORT/SEAPORT. Simply, simply shocking. No excuse on this one. Nuff said.

2. CHOPPY NAVIGATION. Lagging madness. Frequently grinds to a halt when laying roads or auto-saving or when scrolling stops. Frustrating even on LOW graphics setting on my advanced 3D gaming optimized machine. 2004 Sims2 and 2009 Sims3 with hi-res trees on High graphics setting have way smoother performance than 2009 CitiesXL. A simple action require 4X amount of time, most of the time. Where's the fun? Major Pain.

3. BORING VISUAL RECOMMENDED

"Recommended" low graphics setting means putting up with unsexy grey boxes called cars and bland blurry cubes pretending to be buildings. Simtropolis has proven that in city building games eyecandies are as important as gameplay. Beauty is the emotional aspect of the game. What is the point of having shapely swimming pools and intricate roof motif if 99% of players are "recommended" to be blind to all these visual treats? The lack of trees and spontaneous terrain design also makes the game world feels dry, barren and boring which greatly reduce my emotional investment.

4. NO CUSTOM BUILDINGS. We live in post-SC4, post-Simtropolis, post-The Sims house-builder era. Content packs are nice. Yes we will buy. But like most TheSims and Simcity fans I expect to see my own custom buildings inside my cities. Diversity attracts. Monopoly repels. Nuff said on this one.

Basically, these pain factors are cancelling out whatever fun there is. So why would most people be expected to rush to sign up online, just to take on MORE pain, such as the typical MMO phenomenon of incumbent domination, meaningless city size competition, and MORE technical glitches, net unavailibility frustration, and frequent server issues?

Still, most of these pain factors can be turned around into FUN factors. Make it people's IDEA of FUN, they'll come. If what users get is more pain than fun, they'll go hang out elsewhere. Very simple.

When FUN FACTORS overtake pain factors, I will sign up to PO as a "long term CitiesXL sponsor".

FUN FACTORS:

1. Mass transit & trees available

2. Play offline & play online as options

3. All po functionalities (incl special rewards) available offline

4. Ability to play my online city offline

5. Ability to port my offline city online

6. Ability to import 3ds or sketchup models to replace in-game 3d models

7. Smooth navigation in medium graphics setting for average pcs.

8. Implement global customisability - terrain tools, animation on/off, intercity trading on/off, pause/under construction mode when online

9. Show sincere commitment & increase responsiveness to existing customers

I'm giving this game some time to meet these expectations before calling it yet another wasted-potential Fail. Meanwhile I entertain the idea that my pent-up city-building desire may still be met by the up and coming Sims3 Custom Neighborhood...

To those who could afford monthly sponsorship of CitiesXL team - what would it take for you to sign up to Planet Offer?

[jeremy12 0]

With your pain factors

#1 says no airports or seaports... those are in the game

#3 is your computer, get a better video card. i am recommended high settings by the game and have even tweaked it beyond high settings, how you came up with 99% of people are recommended low settings is beyond me

With your fun factors

#1 is confirmed on its way

#4 in your fun factors would be a nice new feature

[Asheroo 53]

One of the most major reasons MC is forgetting when it comes to the PO, is that there are lots and lots and lots of players like me, who in a game like this, just want to play alone. I don't want to work with other players, I want to build by myself. Only such a small fraction of all players of the games are people who like tho play this game online.

You can't simply attract people to the multiplayer world, there are lots who want to play alone, against the AI, all by themselves, no other player.

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

To Jeremy -

Pain Factors #1: Stand corrected. Point remains - No Bus, No Trains, No Planet Offer members, NO GAME.

Pain Factors #3: It is obvious 99% is non-scientific conjecture but your guestimate of the real figure is as good as mine. And unless you're a psychic you won't know how advanced my video card or multicore or 3D skill are so quit the condescending presumptuous non-advice of 'update video card'. For indepth discussion of the VERY REAL CHOPPINESS ISSUE (even on HIGH END machines) see these threads.

The ever increasing list of bugs

Very very choppy game play

Point remains - No SMOOTH play, No Fun, No Planet Offer members, NO GAME.

A REMINDER to those who have signed up for PO as is: listen up - a few hundred players will not sustain the survival of a MMO. So if you want this game to survive so that you too get to play, let other people voice their viewpoint. Yes, even the casual gamers with 16 month old machines are MC customers too. Just like the disenfranchised but still useful to the economy underdogs in your cities. Read: ECOLOGY. Citybuilding MMO is not like your shoot-them-up MMO. In PO, you need OTHER PEOPLE. The more the merrier. Darwinian cowboy-town last-man-standing attitude = quick PO membership population reduction = QUICK NATURAL DEATH OF MMO PLANET. So the typical MMO cowboys better brush up on the communal spirit and people skill.

Bottomline: If these COMMON issues are not addressed SOON, CitiesXL or PO = FAIL.

Like I mentioned earlier, even the stubborn EA is launching their 3D Create-A-World program end of the year to boost Sims3 sales. This is really not the only city-creation game in town - as much as I wish it was the dream game, it remains a 50% pain 50% fun to play.

To Asheroo -

I relate to your sentiment of solo player. I would venture to guestimate that most Simcity fans are soloist "Creator sort" and non-competitive (as opposed to the competitive my city is bigger than your city Darwinians) by nature.

That said I am what they call an "ambivert" - both introvert and extrovert. I will probably enjoy the visit other player cities aspect too. Like virtual tourism.

My main point is Monte Cristo's CitiesXL team needs to get their act together, FIX THE OBVIOUS ISSUES, before I want to get EMOTIONALLY and FINANCIALLY involved in this game, or...move on to other more fun offerings. My time is precious too. Why waste time if it is not going to get better as in more fun from here?

As budget or subscription fee is not an issue for me and some others, I do wish to hear what other willing payees have to say. What they want for their money and TIME involvement.

So back to the TOPIC AT HAND addressed specifically to those who has the $$budget$$ but not signing up for other reasons -

What Would It Take for You to commit to Planet Offer?

[EAGCE 2]

I just signed up for 3 months. 

The free weekend made me believe that they really are trying to get the game together but just need more time.

[SimBurger 0]

SoftcoreGamer:

I agree with some of your comments. Unfortunately writing "I agree with this" over and over is redundant and annoying, so I'm going to have to respond to what I disagree with. Assume that everything else you said, I wholeheartedly support.

1) You're a good writer. Avoid "nuff said" whenever possible.

2) Lagging and Choppy. This is not a small game. The only logical way for you to say that its performing poorly would be if you or I had experience with other *EQUALLY COMPLEX* games and saw the other ones performing on average machines significantly better. Maybe someone who has such experience can comment. In my limited knowledge, this game seems like a Behemoth of real-time interconnecting functions. If there was one type of game on earth I would expect to struggle a bit, it would be one this elaborate.

3) "Basically, these pain factors are cancelling out whatever fun there is." For you.

4) "All po functionalities (incl special rewards) available offline". You can't expect this. Incentives make the world go around. It's not unreasonable nor unethical to expect Monte Cristo to retain special perks for PO players - after basic functionality is duplicated in both areas.

5) "Show sincere commitment & increase responsiveness to existing customers" - MonteCristo has been heavily involved in this site, and Philippe himself frequently jumps into the Lions Den online to chat, field questions and get input from players. I've been thanked for my input numerous times by MC staff, and they've welcomed any bug lists that I can send their way. I'm rarely online and I've personally crossed paths with MC staff at least 10 times since the game was released. On the forums, in my PM box, and on the game Chat.

6) "Monte Cristo needs to get its act together" - Yikes. MonteCristo is a very small operation with limited developers, working on something massive. Resource availability is a RELEVANT factor that should be taken into consideration when people start yelling. I don't know what type of work you do, but if you've ever managed development projects as I have, you know its a slow, miserable, painful process for everyone involved. I do this kind of crap every day of my life. Even a bug / enhancement list of 20 items can take upwards of a month just to get programmed. Even longer if they put it through proper testing. I was blown away at the bug fixes and enhancements MC spat out last week, only a couple weeks after a major release. That's an impressively fast turnaround time for any development team, especially on a game this complex.

I sometimes feel like in order to appease folks like you, they kick new things out too quickly, then rely on us to be their test team. But even that is okay, because within 48 hours, several of the bugs people had reported, were received, acknowledged, and fixed by MC real-time. So from the perspective of a professional in the product / software / internet development world - MonteCristo is doing a damn good job so far. I wasn't expecting any patches or enhancements until at least 6 months down the line. They beat my estimate by nearly 5.5 months.

7) Amen on the PO Mode Pause Button request. Amen. My biggest "PAIN" is the pressure I feel to "Hurry Up" with this game. If you're playing a 20% difficulty city, you won't run into this as much. But when I physically begin to SWEAT because I can't get a road bulldozed fast enough, and the new one being built keeps showing up as "RED" - while my contracts are expiring - as I am repeatedly trying to figure out whats so bad about my terrain, or why its too steep to lay a road there - then I know a Pause button is in order. This is aside from what *I* personally believe is the true fun factor of this game. The ability to stop everything, kick it into postcard view, and walk your own streets. Truly experience your city. That, to me is the reward, and with an extremely fast-clicking never stopping clock always going, you never get to stop and smell the roses.

"I'm giving this game some time to meet these expectations before calling it yet another wasted-potential Fail" - Im confounded that you'd even be comfortable coming remotely close to calling it a "FAIL". They've done an amazing job for a 1.0 version and they're actively fixing things every week. Its nowhere near a "potential fail". Its brimming with potential.

9) To those who could afford monthly sponsorship of CitiesXL team - what would it take for you to sign up to Planet Offer?"

a) An involved development team - CHECK!

b) A game that is 90% amazing already and in need of 10% improvement - CHECK!

c) Frequent updates and patches - CHECK!

d) A dirt cheap monthly price - CHECK!

e) The challenge. The fun. The satisfaction of success. - CHECK.....

-SB-

[SoftcoreGamer 352]

Hi there Simburger

In response to your point (1)... Not sure if I'm a good writer but hey you're supposed to be play-acting as a city-building game site member. So avoid linguistic snobbery whenever possible. Nuff said nuff said nuff said lalalalala lol

Your loyal love for the game and especially the game makers is self-evident...even glaring!

To the more detached observers, I'm just a casual on-the-fence half-in-love semi-indifferent gamer, spelling out what I want as clearly as possible, as biased or fair as I see it. To you, however, I represent an imaginary group of "folks like me". Whatever that means. Reread my first post and note that I speak FOR MYSELF AND MYSELF ONLY. Try to avoid kneejerk projections online. It doesn't look good on a chunky burger.

4) "All po functionalities (incl special rewards) available offline". You can't expect this. Incentives make the world go around. It's not unreasonable nor unethical to expect Monte Cristo to retain special perks for PO players - after basic functionality is duplicated in both areas. quote>

What? Of course I CAN expect this. This IS THE INCENTIVE for me to sign up...hello? And I'm gonna repeat it here simply because......I CAN??!!

I Will Sign Up with PO if all PO functionalities becomes available in offline mode.

I Will Sign Up with PO if my online cities becomes playable in offline mode.

I Will Sign Up with PO if I get to own and keep all MY online cities in my machine.

And don't act surprise about THE DEMAND FOR OFFLINE FULL FUNCTIONALITY - city-builders are not the shoot-them-up gamers. They tend to think and behave more like creative types who CREATE IN SOLITUDE and like to OWN THEIR OWN CREATIONS. This concept should not be too hard for a manager to grasp, right?

Look at it this way.... Even if the not-so-shy "ambiverts" like me sign up for PO, it's not because I really enjoy chat boxes on my city screen. It's really A COMPROMISE ON MY PART to support and acknowledge the genius and hardwork of CXL team, feeding their cashflow. My signing up doesn't mean PO is good value, not the way it is anyway. There's not much incentive for me otherwise to go online for all sorts of game design and practical or psychological reasons which I and many other solo types have repeated ten thousand times. Summary - FOR ME TO FEED THE CASHFLOW, ABILITY TO PLAY MY ONLINE CITIES OFFLINE IS A MUST.

And for me to become very very active online, there should be OTHERS incentives. Sorry to burst MC's fantasy bubble - but visiting other cities or some landmarks just ain't sexy enough.

I suspect ability to trade CUSTOM BUILDINGS and MODS will excite me and "my folks". But that is stuff for another topic.

But anyway, since when you've been contracted by MC to speak on their behalf...of what I can or cannot expect from them? Stay in character, please...

On a more serious note - yes I can understand where you're coming from. The protests so far are louder than the fireworks and confettis, and the "invested" players will attempt to damage control with lots of trumpeting. The "betrayed" players would tend to go to Amazon or Metacritic and trash the game. But the third type, the less passionate "on the fence" players, like me, will either just wait and see, or attempt to NEGOTIATE.

And you know what Simburger? It is my PEROGATIVE to ask for what I want!

In fact, I am doing MC a favour, by being PROACTIVE, HONEST and UPFRONT with them. By being ARITICULATE and communicative. Giving them a chance to SATISFY A DEMAND. (if only the in-game city manager are as coherent with their feedback!)

OTOH, can't say the same of MC's level of communicativeness or honesty so far, based on their thus far passive-aggressive coersive "BAIT, CRIPPLE & STALL" tactic? But no worries, I'm still giving them a chance.

Look... MMO appeals to the Biggest Muscle types. BUT this is NOT a mindless competitive Darwinian muscle game. As a casual city-builder for many years, I would even say the Simcity players are The Most Creative of all Gamers. Creative sorts have more subjective AND occasional privacy needs. Their needs obviously have not been addressed hence all the protests. It is time MC change their passive aggressive strategy a little, in the name of the success of this potential gem?

There's no need to panic, dear invested ones. I repeat - the only reason I am posting this, is because I still have LOVE, well, a bit anyway, and still hope for the success of this game and the makers. If this means monthly sponsorship, so be it. But at least - give me what I want!

So, TEMPT ME, EXCITE ME, Please!

[cheuk18me94 0]

1. City-building game is not an MMOm there is no character, no fighting,war,shooting or action scenes, only for the chat box and trading windows then requested me to pay 6 dollars for a month.

A good game should not be expensive, 6 dollars a month is not much, but after 10 years, it will be 720dollars. It is a lot of money.

Selling single-player game is not profitable? No. If selling singer=player mode can't earn money, EA would have bankrupt long time ago.

Planet Offer is just a money grabber. They developed PO because it can earn money. They ignored PO because it didn't earn money? It is wrong.

Buying sing;e-mode cities xl is a kind of support, no need to pay for PO to encourage MC grab more money. It will make MC more greedy.

[Soviet779 1]

Nothing, ever. Thinking about it i would never ever build a city online, its something i created something thats mine something i want to look back on and mess around with from time to time when its finished, a piece of art. In contrast to other games where you create say a character online, the characters there to serve a specific purpose generally which is either to tear through the game real fast (PVE) or beat the hell out of other players (PVP) and if you want your character to be any good you better get it decent items which dictate how it looks. Its not a piece of art. Its maybe something you may like to go back and mess with from time to time but ultimately its just a tool, a means to an end. A city is nothing like that.

I want my piece of art on my hard drive, to copy/delete/move/keep or do whatever i want with, i dont want any part of it to be tied to an online component of any sort, i dont want to lose it when MC goes bust or releases cities XL 2 and shuts down the original servers etc. Plus ive seen this BS happen before with other things, online music stores specifically, i never got ripped off by losing all my music when the activation servers or whatever shut down but i read about those who did, anyone who thinks a company will "take care" of their customers in the event of a server shutdown or whatever is very naive, you wont get to download your city etc, and even if you did its build upon multiplayer trade, how will that work in single player? The city will fail.

[Abmet 0]

Originally posted by: SoftcoreGamer

 Frustrating even on LOW graphics setting on my advanced 3D gaming optimized machine. quote>

Just lol  on that. Cities xl is not a demanding game in terms of hardware. You must have a very crappy/old pc in order to run Cities xl like that…

 

 For example I run Cities xl extremely smooth at 1920x1200, 4xAA, max settings, in a city with a 3.000.000 population. 

[USA_Pride 49]

Make it $15 or less per year and I would consider it.

I pay Mozy only $4 a month to backup 40 gigabytes of data for me.

I'm still upset with the single player. Monte Cristo has made the trading prices so far out of whack on the single player game so that once you run out of resources you can no longer build your city. Everything seems to be 10 times more expensive than the going rates in the PO. This is done to further force you into the PO. Basically, the $40 game you bought is just a limited demo of the Planet Offer, it's really dissapointing, because I was starting to like the solo game and once I used up all my resources I found out I couldn't get reasonable prices for additional resources unless I paid money for the Planet Offer and rebuilt my city online.

Just gets me to no end how money grubbing Monte Cristo is being and how they've given the raw deal to all the people that don't want to subscribe to a $9.25 a month chatbox and clunky trading system.

[Abmet 0]

Originally posted by: USA_Pride

I'm still upset with the single player. Monte Cristo has made the trading prices so far out of whack on the single player game so that once you run out of resources you can no longer build your city. Everything seems to be 10 times more expensive than the going rates in the PO. quote>

I have a city in single player with population 3.000.000(and still getting bigger) and I sell (officers, high-tech industry, farming, oil) and I buy everything else, and my income is approximate 150.000 every turn. 

 

Ok the single player is more difficult than Planet Offer but if you know that you are doing a city with population 3.000.000+ is not very difficult to achieve.

 

[zwr100 2]

Anyone who thinks the current PO game is limited needs to check out some other cities.  Last night there was a bunch of commotion about a German city with 24 million people (I didn't check for myself).  I understand and agree with dissapointment about the lack of mass transit to date, but it's really not the limiting factor everyone makes it out to be... and neither are any of the other bugs, missing content,  whatever.

There are 20 maps and countless ways to build them, I'm really amazed by the complaints about lack of anything considering the endless possiblities in the current 'limited' version of the game.

You can't play solo.  It's an MMO.  Get over it.  The whole point is that you need help to accomplish your goals.  Refuse to work with others?  Build another city so you can trade with yourself... but realize that someone else is probably able to provide tokens more efficiently and therefore cheaper.

TLDR: What it took for me? Visiting other cities has made me realize there are amazing possibilities already in the current annoying 'limited,' and 'buggy' game.  If I find that I'm building cities to the max, and there are no new ideas to try then I will need something more, or a new game

[USA_Pride 49]

Originally posted by: zwr100You can't play solo.  It's an MMO.  Get over it.  The whole point is that you need help to accomplish your goals.  Refuse to work with others?  Build another city so you can trade with yourself... but realize that someone else is probably able to provide tokens more efficiently and therefore cheaper.quote>

Yes, but many people buy the game thinking that there $40 purchase would at least get them some single player action.  Because the single player game is designed to limit your possibilities, you're forced to either be resource limited or to subscribe to the PO.

This can easily be fixed by making Omnicorp more reasonable when it comes to negotiating in the solo mode.  The reason they currently aren't is obvious, Monte Cristo wants to force you to subscribe to the PO.

Paying $40 for a demo isn't acceptable!

Too often here people who don't want to pay for the PO are dismissed as being cheap or crybabies, but for many of us there's a very good reason.  I'm not a hardcore gamer, I'm not a kid in high school anymore.  I work, have a home, have a wife, and before the end of the year (I hope for tax purposes) I'll have my first baby girl as well!  I don't have time to get my money's worth from the PO, nor do I have extra cash I'm willing to commit to it.  I usually play games once a week, during the weekend for maybe 5 hours.

For all the people that think the PO is a good deal for them, that's great.  But for many people this game is too expensive or not a good enough value for them.  I think the reason why people don't let it go is because some folks already paid their money for the game and are now being robbed if they want the rest.  Also, we're all dying for a replacement for SC4.  CXL could be that replacement, but only if they ungimp the single player game and add mass transit in for free or add it in as a pay-once have forever expansion pack.

[Livin in Sim 83]

Hmmm, I have just been alerted by the handy dandy Duplicate Thread Detector Device that there is yet another thread about the Planet Offer.  Please discuss the Planet Offer, what would it take, will you do it, etc, etc,  here, or here. 

Thread locked.