Evillions BATs

[Evillions 552]

Welcome to my BAT workshop! Mainly, I'll BAT anything that comes to mind.  Currently, I'd like to start modeling some Middle Easten buildings because there is a lack of them in the STEX.  Therefore, I need some help getting some images of a building.  For instance, if you have a image that just shows a building in the middle east that is useful for modeling.  Please post it here!

Stats:

---------

Using 3dsmax2011

Past works:

---

To the orignal post:

Here's my first try at a grimy European building, what do you think?

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Like you said, good base, but this is lacking details in almost every sense! Try adding window frames and mullions, decorations around the entrances and roof line, not to mention work on textures a bit.

I would find a picture of a building you like and then make every last detail you see on that building, that should give you an idea of what this project needs (unless of course this is that building in the picture )

Best of luck,

-Todd

[Evillions 552]

I'm not really good at making the really little details. Can you show me how to?

[gottago 24]

You make the little details just like the big ones, only smaller, lol. They don't have to be very complex; most detail will be lost in-game. You just need patience but it will pay off.

Check out phillipbo's BAT beginner's tutorial in the ST omnibus section; it walks you through creating a simple building step-by-step and covers all the basics. Excellent starter tutorial on gmax/BAT, highly recommended.

[Evillions 552]

My rendering was a tad bit messed up.  Like the textured areas were all white even though they were all UVW mapped.  So I had to do it this way like so...

I redone the wall textures so it would look the one in the picture I used.

So any more help?

EDIT: To be honest, It looks like I'm never going to get better since I'm stuck with gmax and I can't make a darn mullion and other complex figures.

[madhatter106 3,903]

Originally posted by: Evillions

To be honest, It looks like I'm never going to get better since I'm stuck with gmax and I can't make a darn mullion and other complex figures.quote>

Read through and digest phillipbo's BAT tutorial.  There's mullions and other "complex" stuff in there, all done step-by-step, and all done in good old gmax.  I happen to be "stuck with gmax," too, and I manage to do okay...

[Evillions 552]

Since this model isn't that good as a base. Should I start a new model? Or just keep on revising this until it looks good?

[simcity4fan12 13]

If you don't really like gmax, you could try the sketchup/gmax method like I do. I can help you understand sketchup. Just PM if you are interested.

About the model. You could try to keep revising it, but it may help a little to start over. It's up to you.

[Evillions 552]

I started to think that it was impossible for me to change that building. So I started another BAT, but this time this one is better.

I know how to add mullions to the windows now and an encaved door. Anyways, any tips you can give me?

[dafiden 11]

I'm just starting, but first you need to extend the roof so it overhangs.  This will give the building some shadows to make the roof look real.

Then, I would pick the easy mullions like putting the "horizontal bars" above each of the three sets of windows.

Then, you'll need to do the windows.  There is a good tutorial on this.  It's not that hard especially if you copy by reference.  You only have to build it once, then just move the copies around.  Here are my windows on my current BAT.  They should be ok for your European building, though.  The easy way I made the windows is using a line with a mesh setting.  That way you can make the window lattices easily look thick with just a single line.  You might be able to use this for your mullions, too.



The cool thing is you can specify the number of sides, so mine had four which would be a square post.  The more sides, the more it looks like a round post.  And, three sides should give you a triangular post.  Can't go any lower than three.

 

[Evillions 552]

Thanks for the help! I added mullions to by edited post above yours, so you could see the mullions only by small pixels tho.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

When in doubt, make them bigger! There is nothing saying that you are stuck with one size (let alone realistically scaled) objects. For my little details, I usually go .05 to .1m thick MINIMUM, or else you run into the problem you are having now. I think you might also want to increase the depth of your details some more, it looks like you have frames on the windows, its just hard to tell because they are in plane with the wall itself.

Now, get back and finish that building

-Todd

[Evillions 552]

Well I'm not finished just yet.  I added balaconies and added the side walls.  There's two problems that I currently have,

1. My rendering is messed up even though I applied UVW mapping to the shapes and etc.  So most of the rendering are pretty much white. But, some parts does apply normally.

2. Texturing is a HUGE problem for me.  I want my walls to be 1 texture, and doesn't repeat and such. Even UWV mapping doesn't even help me out one bit.  Where can I find a texture that I don't need to photoshop on that looks grimy?, Since I don't have photoshop at the moment due to harddrive failure, and just got a new harddrive and RAM.

 Anyways, here's the rendering:

I need help on backyard stuff such as stone fences, flora, sheds, etc. Also, I need to make this look good with having it to be W2W style. So any help out there that I could use?

[Sam 163]

I suggest photoshopping your textures, even though you seem to have an aversion to it. You don't have to use photoshop itself, there are other graphics programs. With photoshop or paintshop pro (I don't know much about other graphics programs) you can take an image and add more layers to it. So you can start with an image of a clean texture and add "dirt" layers to it (you can adjust the opacity of the dirt layers to get just the right effect you want). I find clouds work well for general dirt.

"Photoshopping" however is very much a part of batting, as you are unlikely to find the perfect texture anywhere.

For Textures like your grill doors you can also use alpha maps to specify transparency on some parts of your texture (like the rounded parts of the arch and between the bars).

Also for w2w there are set standards for things like size, distance from footpath etc that people adhere to so that their buildings work together to make a believable w2w style. I don't know exactly what those dimensions are as I don't use the style myself, but they'll be listed somewhere.

Don't forget to add to your BATs little details like downpipes, window sills etc.

And there's nothing wrong with gmax. People make some fantastic creations with it, and not just in the SC4 community. There is nothing to be ashamed of in having only gmax.

Another tip that might be helpful - I look at magazines like Model Railroader that have sections on how to make buildings for model railroad sets (ie cut out of plastic, timber etc). They usually have dimensions, elements and steps that are easily converted to 3D computer modelling. If you run through a few of those it will give you some practice, especially as the objects are already broken down to basic shapes. For example, my BAT on the STEX is from a 1970's issue of Model Railroader (I think).

[gottago 24]

Originally posted by: Evillions

1. My rendering is messed up even though I applied UVW mapping to the shapes and etc.  So most of the rendering are pretty much white. But, some parts does apply normally.quote>

I had this problem starting out, and another BATter said "gmax has Alzheimer's." But it's pretty easy to fix: create a simple box and apply all your textures to it before you render, then delete the box. That way it will save them in memory--at least for your current session . You have to redo that every time you muck around with your textures, gmax's memory for textures is lousy.

2. Texturing is a HUGE problem for me.  I want my walls to be 1 texture, and doesn't repeat and such. Even UWV mapping doesn't even help me out one bit.  Where can I find a texture that I don't need to photoshop on that looks grimy?, Since I don't have photoshop at the moment due to harddrive failure, and just got a new harddrive and RAM.quote>

You can download gimp for free; I use PS but tons of people prefer it. In any event you'll have to bite the bullet and learn to use an image editor; it's essential for texturing, which is even more important than the BAT itself in many ways. Look at CS textures and arroway on the web; they've got tons of excellent textures, a lot of them are grimy from the start, but even then you're going to have to modify every important texture on your BAT to have a decent outcome. Again, check out the tutorials!

I need help on backyard stuff such as stone fences, flora, sheds, etc. Also, I need to make this look good with having it to be W2W style. So any help out there that I could use?

quote>

Dont worry about the stuff that's not on the building itself--you'll detail the lot later in LE with other people's props (but keep track of what you use for listing dependencies).

[madhatter106 3,903]

The whole texturing thing comes up quite often in new BAT threads, and it needs to be restated again and again...

Great textures are made, not found.

Never, ever, do I end up locating a texture online and using that texture directly in a BAT without first altering it in some form or fashion - reducing the contrast, adding shading or shadowing, changing the color, tweaking the saturation levels, adding gradients, pulling and pushing little details in and out of it, adding and arranging layers of grime or paint or dirt or wear. And then testing it in the preview mode, and then going back to refine and refine some more. Hell, even the textures that Maxis provided with the BAT of their brick walls and shingle roofs - I've used those as a base once in a while, but manipulated them in some way as to arrive at a "good" texture.

Simply put, you're not going to find a treasure trove of perfectly suitable textures that you can immediately use for your BATs. There is no magic bullet for getting around this - as an earlier poster said, image manipulation is a big, big part of texturing for your BATs, and I often find that textures can make or break a BAT. I'll take a building with mediocre modelling and fantastic textures over something that has great modelled details but flat color textures (or even worse, gmax colors.)

[nofunk 1,933]

^ madhatter106 makes some great points above. I'd go one step further: make your own textures! Very rarely do I use textures found online. The textures on most of my BATs were made completely from scratch. Making them from scratch gives you the freedom to tweak your textures however you want, and also allows you to custom design textures for different parts of your building. For example, you can find a texture of an old, dingy wall online, or you can make one from scratch, so that the rust marks and aging correspond with roof flashing and window sills. The second approach will undoubtedly give you better results.

Take a look at JasonCW's texturing tutorials for some pointers!

That said, I think you've done some really great work so far, and I look forward to seeing more!

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I have been meaning to make a texturing tutorial with GIMP for this very occasion, the whole texturing problem comes up wayyyyy too often (and I hate typing the same things over and over ), but Madhatter and Nofunk could not be more correct.

It usually takes me twice as long to texture something than it does to actually model it, it takes a lot more patience and tries even my perfectionism sometimes. Doing it well is always worth it in the end though.

[Evillions 552]

Well I got finish the base of the building.  It looks more grimy with the help of textures and photoshopping with the GIMP.  I've also managed to render one side on high

What do you think what should I add?

[art128 4,618]

It looks good mate, but try to add more details on the roof, like some gutters !

[Evillions 552]

I manged to render the other 3 sides.  Although, the textures might be a bit sloppy, I still have to work on it.  So point out anything that I need to take care of and redo that section.  And yes, I know roof junk is a bit simple, please show me more in-depth detials that usual tips don't give.

Also, I need nightlighting help.  I know how to make nightlights and all that.  It's just the quaitly of the nightlighting is what I need help on.

[Larks2242 251]

Cool BAT Evillions!

[nofunk 1,933]

Yeah! Nice job dirtying up the wall textures! I think once you add a window texture this is really going to come together.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I'm no European, but this building just seems a bit odd architecturally with those balconies on the front. You might be able to get away with some small exterior balconies as opposed to the interior ones. Again, I'm not familiar with this kind of design, so if you are working from a real example, let me know. The roof, I think, should be entirely shingles with no flat top or have some sort of parapet wall separating the flat area from the sloped part. I think you could do without that weird green vein pulsing across your roof too, it doesn't seem to serve any purpose except loosely connect two nodes like a beginners circuitry set. Your top windows on the right most view are shifted over the the left in relation to the bottom two floors, I don't think you meant to have it like that

As for the textures, I think your wall's map is alright, its just tiled such that there is a green stain every floor as opposed to in one place like how it would be IRL( ie, the bottom), plus that REALLY dark spot at the bottom is over doing it (it must be next to a big puddle of tar or black paint ). The roof texture is not bad, but I think you should use something similar to your first building and then dirty it up and change the color around etc. All in all, I think the color of your textures are too green / yellow which, in a game with a very red/ blue pallet, can stand out like a sore thumb.

Also, you need to use one UVW map (at the bottom of the modifier drop down) to BOTH parts of your shingled roof so that the proportions of the shingles stays the same for each "level" on your building. Simply select both objects, and apply the map.

Anyway, I'll let you digest that and I'll see what you come up with.

-Todd

[Evillions 552]

Taking some of SimHottoddy's suggestions, I made a parapet wall instead of a roof and some of the textures had been cropped so that green tar doesn't show up.

Which roof is better than the other?

[Sam 163]

I like the one on the left. The one on the right doesn't have enough detail. Rooves don't tend to sit that flat with the building, there are overhangs and gutters and things.

[Evillions 552]

I made another roof agian.. Looks the same expect I added a parapet wall on the flat roof aera.  Roof junk has been added such as a HVAC unit and some other stuff.  Agian... the rendering has messed up, I've even tried some of the methods here and still doesn't work.  If you noticed, I added a ladder leading towards the flat part of the roof.

I decided not to make this a W2W since the wall demensions arn't wide enough for it.  Anyways, I did add a porch on side.  What should I add or remove?

[Sam 163]

What do you mean "the rendering is messed up"? I don't see what you are referring to, but then I don't know what state it was in before you rendered it. Perhaps a better description of the problem might get you some suggestion of how to resolve it.

[gottago 24]

evillions:

your textures aren't sticking because gmax's memory links to textures is erased every time you start a new session or change or delete a texure or uvw map. It's a pain, but as I said earlier, create a new primitive box and apply all your textures to it. Then select another element, any element, to unselect the box, then go back and re-select the box and delete it. Your textures will now be applied to the model for your current session. You have to repeat this procedure every time your model looks like that or some textures are not showing.

btw, looking good--and if you want to resize to fit w2w, select all and use the change by uniform scale tab on your toolbar to make your model fit the lot.

[madhatter106 3,903]

Originally posted by: gottago

evillions:

your textures aren't sticking because gmax's memory links to textures is erased every time you start a new session or change or delete a texure or uvw map.quote>

I don't know what  you're doing, but I've never found this to be the case - when I open an already textured model, or delete a texture for that matter, this never happens to me.  The only time I've discovered a completely textured model is "blank" upon loading is when I've moved the location of the textures files/folder, and gmax is looking in the location they previously were set to when I originally placed the textures.