Nightlighting Help? (thread obsolete)

[ReikaKalseki 52]

When I uploaded several BATs earlier today, a few - these three - received rather scathing criticism about the night lighting. Any suggestions? I should mention at the outset that exporting takes a long time on my computer, about 2 hours a model, so repeated exports are most assuredly not desired. One last thing - I would love to keep the brightness "wave" pattern on the middle one.

[Gn_leugim 858]

try read something on my tuturial on my siganture

the first thing I can tell you is: don't use the nightmaps

[simcity4fan12 13]

Most of the time the default nite maps aren't to good for some BATs. They are fine for some BATs however. Like, IMO, my upload, 375 Pearl Street, I used them and it turned out excellent. Your modeling is great, but they need a little more detail if you get what I'm saying. I like your imagination on your creations. They are very good ideas. Sorry that your first few uploads didn't really get a desired attention, but that's something that happens on this site for some reason.

[Simcity player 13]

for realism, you may want to randomize the nitemaps. if you are board with the current nitemaps, go on stex, and download the ndex nitemaps. i use them for my bats.

[JakeMD 107]

Sometimes windows aren't lit at night. Try to randomize, as was mentioned. I also recommend starting up a BAT thread so we can comment on your models before you upload!

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Ah, randomization may not be entirely possible. For most of my buildings, each floor is a unit (and thus an entire floor is either on or off), as modeling (and arraying) hundreds of little windows almost crashed BAT. It took twenty minutes just to zoom. And no, my computer, having a Dual-Core P4 and 3GB RAM, is not slow.

EDIT:

I think I might have a workaround.

[BlackDragonAJ89 21]

I suggest to just randomnize which windows are on or off; it's kind of unrealistic for an office building or apartment to have all the lights on at once.

[CSGdesign 27]

Hi pplz.

I have been able to preview nite-lites no probs, and can get some really nice lighting happening, but it's all dissapeared when I actually export.

I think I have the plugins installed incorrectly or incompatable versions or something.

Can someone please give me a clear list of what I need to download and install in order to get nite-lites working.

Currently I have:

1) Patch for simcity 4 that makes nitelites work (can't find link again).

2) Gmax

3) BAT4MAX v2.6 scripts (gmax and also 3ds max scripts, installed in their separate folders).

4) Can't get 3DSMAX to render hi-res, so I dont even use 3DSMAX I just create and render straight from gmax using the HD button... is this the problem perhaps?  (I can create geometry in 3ds max and import, but lose mapping... haven't tried anything with exporting lighting from 3dsmax to gmax yet).

I figure this info will help a lot of new BAT'ers including RadicalOne that reads this thread later.

Thanx in advance.

[Simcity player 13]

are you talking about self randomizing window, you don't have to. all you need is the ST-tool. it randomizes windows nitemaps.

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: CSGdesign

I have been able to prevquote>

I know what's happening. In order for a building to light in SimCity, its name must be prefaced with "nite". For example, an object named "window01" would become "nitewindow01". You'll have to either group the windows that you want lit and name the group, or name each individually, depending on whether you want variable brightness, etc.

Originally posted by: Simcity player

are you talking about self randomizing window, you don't have to. all you need is the ST-tool. it randomizes windows nitemaps.quote>

A link would be greatly appreciated.

[CSGdesign 27]

Naw that's not it - like I said they're previewing fine.

It's only when I export.

I saw night-lights on a stadium bat I downloaded, so I figure it's not the simcity 4 patch, its something to do with the gmax export.

Possibly a script conflict??

Does anyone else export high definition from gmax, or only from 3dsmax?

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: CSGdesign

Naw that's not it - like I said they're previewing fine.

It's only when I export.

quote>

No matter what the name is, they will light for the night preview if you specify the textures. However, it will not light in SimCity without the appropriate name.

Trust me, I had the same problem.

I've overhauled the middle one, randomizing the lighting and getting new textures, and here it is. It's a bit dimly lit for my tastes (any ideas on how to brighten?), but is there anything else that needs work on this one?

[SimFox 802]

Definition has nothing to do with your problem, none what so ever.

Problems are caused by your failure to follow the instructions. which in turn, Imho, is caused by your habit to read diagonally.

If you fail to get lights working you your models entirely exported from GMAX then you've failed to read instructions for GMAX BAT. if you fail to get lights working on your modles exported from MAX then you've failed to read instructions in Bat4Max thread's first post.

HD export is possible from GMAX, or GMAX/MAX combo.

[ReikaKalseki 52]

OK, I've figured out how to brighten it, and done so. Are there any other fixes I need to make?

[SimFox 802]

Unfortunately, plenty.

First thing you have to do is to seit and take a long look at your creation.

Then try to built in your head explanations for the things you are doing.

There are way to many illogical spots stating from the lattice... Also there doesn't seem to be any respect to sizes and proportions... It all looks unjustified, arbitrary.

As a result the final creations is odd, no more then that.

[simcity4fan12 13]

I think you should have some spot lights going up on the glass shard thing on the roof rather than use nite maps for it.

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: SimFox

Build in your head explanations for the things you are doing.

There are way to many illogical spots stating from the lattice... Also there doesn't seem to be any respect to sizes and proportions... It all looks unjustified, arbitrary.

As a result the final creations is odd, no more then that.quote>

Please be more specific about the lattice being "illogical". As for the "arbitrary" design, you are referring to the roof spire - which I'm putting my foot down on keeping, though it is open for optimization - or the floor height scaling, which I've read much about? If the latter, please say so, as that is a fairly quick fix.

Originally posted by: simcity4fan12

I think you should have some spot lights going up on the glass shard thing on the roof rather than use nite maps for it. quote>

I'm having some trouble - though I am making progress -, but that is the goal.

[simcity4fan12 13]

Having trouble hm? Maybe I can help...are you having trouble for the spotlights being bright enough?

[CSGdesign 27]

Originally posted by: SimFox

Problems are caused by your failure to follow the instructions. which in turn, Imho, is caused by your habit to read diagonally.

quote>

Umm.  Hoping that wasn't directed at me?  Cuz the bluntness of it and the judgement in it is a bit bad taste if it is.

I've installed gmax, 3dsmax and even sc4 several times, and followed the instructions very carefully.  I find them a bit confusing - I am not as familiar with scripts and stuff as many are, but I'm sure I have a lot more knowledge about it than some.

I'm thinking that perhaps the problem is that I installed BAT4MAX v3.0 and it's left scripts in the script folder that are conflicting with v2.6 scripts...?

I'll try installing all three again from scratch and empty folders and see if that solves it.

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: simcity4fan12

Having trouble hm? Maybe I can help...are you having trouble for the spotlights being bright enough?quote>

Not really. I'm trying both Omni and Spot lighting, and with the former, the whole tower is garishly lit, and with the latter, the spire is mostly dark with one bright spot. But I think I've got a possible workaround by making the spotlight omni-like. (120^o field of lighting.)

Once I get this working, I'll try my hand at fixing the scale, and then upload another image.

[BlackDragonAJ89 21]

I don't know if it's exactly the lighting that's causing the problem; but maybe because the building is a little too bizarre maybe? I mean it looks really out there and far from normal (of course, what am I talking about, the building set I'm almost done working with looks like it came from the Simpsons due to my rather cartoony textures, but then again, I'm going for the SC3K kind of feel). =/

Work with the scaling, but also try to make things look a little more subtle too; that's all I can say.

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: BlackDragonAJ89

maybe the building is a little too bizarre maybe? I mean it looks really out there and far from normal...try to make things look a little more subtle too; that's all I can say.quote>

Everyone has their own architectural style, reminiscent of their tastes. This is mine. Texture work and modeling detail are open to suggestion and recommendation, but my style is static. I design what I see to be aesthetically attractive. I've seen comments both in favor of and against this style (both here on the STEX, to addons for other games, for YouTube music compositions, etc.), either praising it as being futuristic - "from 2250", according to a friend - or claiming it to be too modern/too new/too different/too radical.

My suggestion is this - If you have suggestions on how to model something, or how to light/texture, etc, go ahead. Constructive criticism is welcome. But if you don't like an architectural style, just don't download it when it goes online. I wouldn't post to BATs that would fit the "Chicago 1890" and "New York 1940" tilesets by calling them "old-fashioned" or "obsolete"; I just ignore them because I don't like that kind of architecture.

And trust me, the night lighting is by far the most criticized aspect of my BAT modeling.

[BlackDragonAJ89 21]

I understand; sorry for the rudeness. =/

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: BlackDragonAJ89

I understand; sorry for the rudeness. =/

quote>

No need to apologize; you weren't being rude. Granted, I may have worded my post rather flatly, but I can't envision any other way to word it and leave the message unhindered.

[Jasoncw 11,843]

It's hard to feel like it would be worthwhile to critique someone who's being defensive.

[SimFox 802]

OK, here few points I meant:

1. This fin. the whole thing is out of place, like, fittingly fish out of water. Neither stylistically, nor compositionally anything in the rest of the building supports it. It's design and realization (as modeling goes) are very crude. As a result it doesn't make you overall building better, but worse since it simply shows that you don't have either clear vision or skill to realize it. As such it could be an internal test... but why to give it to the public?
2. This paper thin roof that appear to float in teh air being unattached to anything else. It's not 2050. it's just bad design...
3. This discrepancy in the shape between wall and the roof is absolutely unjustified. In fact it sort of screams: - i can't do complex shapes... It may be all wrong, but that is an impression it makes.
4. This 100 floor "bay window" is a questionable design choice. You can't just take an element from small architectural form and blow/clone it up 100 times, no more than you can blow a toad to the size of a bull.
5. What is it made of? Please don't tell it is 2250.., or magiK
6. The size of this... I'm not quite sure what it is suppose to be is a bit awkward... It it way to fat for a simply column or support and way to thin for anything else I could think of...

This last element highlights overall problem of this model... Sizes...

What size it is? how tall is the typical floor? Where are technical floors? What is the thickens of the roof? Right now it look like it is paper thin and not attached to the building itself. What is thickness of the lattice? it's cross-section? I mean it's thick enough to be concern of cross-section. What is a width of the window? How is it glazed? What is you lobby hight and why have you chosen it?

CSGdesign:

it was directed at you, naturally...

If some particular point in instructions is unclear then ask about it. if everything is unclear then... well then the problem is most likely with you.

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: SimFox

1. This fin. the whole thing is out of place, like, fittingly fish out of water. Neither stylistically, nor compositionally anything in the rest of the building supports it. It's design and realization (as modeling goes) are very crude.

quote>

I'm not removing the fin altogether, but what suggestions do you have to improve it?

2. This paper thin roof that appear to float in teh air being unattached to anything else. It's not 2050. it's just bad design... This discrepancy in the shape between wall and the roof is absolutely unjustified. In fact it sort of screams: - i can't do complex shapes... It may be all wrong, but that is an impression it makes.

quote>

The asphalt roof is the exact same size and shape of the building itself, and it rests directly on top of the main building. That said, I'll thicken it, given that that is probably a good idea.

3. This 100 floor "bay window" is a questionable design choice. You can't just take an element from small architectural form and blow/clone it up 100 times, no more than you can blow a toad to the size of a bull.

quote>

Tell that to NDEX. Their building, "Chronos Palms Condos" - which yes, is much better than mine in terms of modeling quality, I freely admit - was the inspiration for the shape.

4. What is it made of? Please don't tell it is 2250.., or magiKquote>

That sounds like an attempted insult, distorting my previous statements into a strawman argument. The way I've envision this tower is a glass facade, with the lattice made of steel vertically, and concrete horizontally. The problem may arise from poor textures. Any ideas on where to get good ones?

5. The size of this... I'm not quite sure what it is suppose to be is a bit awkward... It it way to fat for a simply column or support and way to thin for anything else I could think of...

This last element highlights overall problem of this model... Sizes...

What size it is? how tall is the typical floor? Where are technical floors? What is the thickens of the roof? Right now it look like it is paper thin and not attached to the building itself. What is thickness of the lattice? it's cross-section? I mean it's thick enough to be concern of cross-section. What is a width of the window? How is it glazed? What is you lobby hight and why have you chosen it?quote>

I should mention here that since uploading that image, I've scaled the model vertically by about 1.3x to compensate for projection distortion. All sizes given below are for the stretched model.

Chances are, the sizes are indeed a bit akward - I've never modeled a BAT before - which may be the root of some of the problems here. I'm not aware of the unit square/meter conversion ratio, so I'll just give everything in squares.

As I said, I'll thicken to roof - which may make its shape more obvious.

The building is 21 units (a unit being the same as one dimension of a lot square) high, plus 6 more units for the spire.

A floor's usable space, the part behind the glass element, is 3.75 units high, plus 0.6 units of concrete above.

Differentiating technical floors are not a concern; from the outside, I doubt you could identify them on most buildings. That said, a good idea would be to put another 2 floors on top for elevator mechanics, which I would differentiate.

The steel vertical columns are 1.5 units in diameter, and there are 26 of them.

A window width varies (as it would, depending on the room inside). The large ones on the front - living room windows, presumably - are 6 units, and the smallest ones - bathroom windows? - are approx. 1 unit.

Window glaze is something that's been giving me real trouble. I can't get textures to be glossy and the like, so I've just been leaving them with the default options. Help in this regard would be appreciated.

The lobby height is one floor, though that floor does not look any different from the others - perhaps a bad decision, I'll look into it. The lobby is also in cojunction with that glass overhang, which serves two purposes. One, to shield the entrance from rain, and two, obsure the door itself so I don't have to model it. Yes, that's cheating, but it is one that will ultimately be justifiable.

How are my dimensions of the components? Suggestions for this are welcome.

I'll probably post a new image soon, showing the result after the vertical stretch (already completed), a new lighting system for the spire, the new floors on top, and the new look for the lobby.

[BlackDragonAJ89 21]

Actually SimFox, the bay window thing is actually pretty common place in real life; after all, nobody wants to be in a glass and steel box all the time, so architects figure out how to make them interesting yet still supportive of the building. It's been happening since the Gilded age of the US.

Now, for me, my suggest is first at, where's the doors to get in? I say add a set of doors on the bay window part of the building, as it's both centralized and will make the building look more realistic and functionable.

[JakeMD 107]

Tell that to NDEX. Their building, "Chronos Palms Condos" - which yes, is much better than mine in terms of modeling quality, I freely admit - was the inspiration for the shape.quote>

You can download that model, and learn from it.

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=11357 Notice all of the modeling techniques, there's several layers of windows and much more detail. Also, the mullions are not round, there's a roof.

I have to agree with Simfox, in that the fin at the top just turns me away from this BAT. It would be nice on another model, but i don't think it fits on this one. Keep trying, this is a nice start.. Just not release quality quite yet.

Also, I just wrote this guide that you could use for your night lighting. Good luck!

[ReikaKalseki 52]

Originally posted by: swat-medic

Tell that to NDEX. Their building, "Chronos Palms Condos" - which yes, is much better than mine in terms of modeling quality, I freely admit - was the inspiration for the shape.quote>

You can download that model, and learn from it.quote>

I plan to, though there's so much that I don't know where to start. I have a great deal to learn. Either way, thank you for the link.

I have to agree with Simfox, in that the fin at the top just turns me away from this BAT. It would be nice on another model, but i don't think it fits on this one.quote>

Is it the shape, color, construction, or what that makes it inconsistent? Coming from a very...unique...background on this, I have trouble with this kind of thing.

Also, I just wrote this guide that you could use for your night lighting.quote>

Thank you very much for this. Unfortunately, this is a residential tower. Office night windows would look weird. Worse, I can't export twice - that would take a full day for a building like this. That said, it will probably help on some of my smaller upcoming buildings.