Where SC4 is unrealistic

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Hi,

With the route query that tells you where people are going for work, it only shows people going to work. What it doesn't show is the shoppers at commercial service places.

There really isn't a point to this, I just wanted to share my thoughts and hear yours on this.

Please give me more little examples of this.

[SomeRandomAmerican 5]

Do you mean examples of glitches in the route query, or examples in general?

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Not exactly. I'm comparing SC4 to ral life.

[Tarkus 6,934]

Originally posted by: ROFLyoshi

With the route query that tells you where people are going for work, it only shows people going to work. What it doesn't show is the shoppers at commercial service places.

quote>

Actually, arguably, it is.  If you look at the purported population density in SC4 given the official "scale" of the city tiles, and compare it to real-life cities of similar characteristics, you'll find the SC4 population is about 2-2.5x higher than the real-life population.  My working assumption has always been that this discrepancy was Maxis' way of creating an "ambient population" effect--population that doesn't actually live there but is necessary to make the simulator work in a realistic manner.

The most unrealistic aspect in SC4 for me is the default highways . . . they're actually half-scale compared to the other road networks and the real-world.

-Alex (Tarkus)

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Another one is you can't get three/four lane roads. You have to use a highway for that, and they can't connect to streets.

[D2629 3]

Actually they're only slightly smaller than real-life. The size of a tile is about 16m. The average highway or motorway, conjoined with 6 lanes is 36m wide. This makes them only 4m out. However they have no emergency lane (another unrealistic aspect) making the lanes about the right size but the road itself only slightly smaller. Also, the road capacities are waaaaaaay too low, and only peak traffic is shown. In case you haven't noticed where you are, traffic still flows all day.

[mayor_brando 8]

There are plenty of things in SimCity4 that aren't that realistic, such as the repetitive buildings, huge retaining walls, no diagonal bridges, etc.

[bigthing 35]

But i dont think sim city 4 was really ment to be a split of real life. Its just a game after all and EA couldnt have done everything.

[+Guest]

it would be nice to have diagonal briges

[617squad 52]

rail = fail

[evertonforever1 7]

Originally posted by: ROFLyoshi

Hi,

With the route query that tells you where people are going for work, it only shows people going to work. What it doesn't show is the shoppers at commercial service places.

There really isn't a point to this, I just wanted to share my thoughts and hear yours on this.

Please give me more little examples of this.

quote>

Yeah it also doesnt deversify $ - $$ -$$$... FOR EXAMPLE.  in a grocery stor it may employ 200 $ employees... 15-30 $$ (dept. Managers, Assitant Dept. managers), and 3 or 4 $$$ (Owners, Store Managers, and Human Resorces people)

It also doesnt take into effect Residential Trades Jobs...  Example the 1000s of Electricians, Plumbers, Roofer, HVAC, Framers, Drywallers, Flooring, Renovators, Window companies... Than take that number and times it by two to get the nuber of people that do Commercial Trades... and you can add more Masons, Steelworkers, and Electrictians.

What about the tens of thousands of city workers(Government) in every city?  That Number may not include City service employees in Buliding code services , And Road construction and maintence.

What about the service buisnesses that opperate mostly on the road?  i.e. Mail Workers(Canada post, Fedex, UPS  ect.) Or the companies that transport things like trucking companies, BRINKS, Private Hospital transfers..... the lists for these things can go ON AND ON!!!

sorry i love simcity 4 but in a city of 1 000 000 they ar missing out on *shot in the dark* 150 000+ jobs.

[bigthing 35]

Originally posted by: mrjoehobo

it would be nice to have diagonal brigesquote>

It would but that cannot be modded sadly 

[duack 14]

What's unrealistic about SC4? Where to begin? Maybe we should ask what is realistic about SC4 =P

[LivingInThePast 364]

The traffic system is flawed. For example, Rail. Rail has other problems, but in REAL LIFE, trains go way faster in the countryside than in busy city roads (especially when it is too close or on roads). Spurs and lesser-used tracks also go slower. Would a train barrel down http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=University+Parks+Waco&sll=31.742183,-96.262207&sspn=2.522494,4.279175&ie=UTF8&ll=31.557438,-97.125755&spn=0.001234,0.002089&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=31.557361,-97.125594&panoid=JK7VfPm5MX68Y8o5-gBa3Q&cbp=12,217.38,,0,16.67">this tracks at 60 MPH? No.

[asd195 1]

what about parking lots

[SteveMSim 275]

I can name you dozens of things that are unrealistic about SimCity. If you want a realistic city, you should download the entire STEX collection, create some buildings through BAT, and download and produce mods.

[dedgren 830]

This is like listening to someone who saw Jesus walk on the water whose first reaction is "yeah, but there's nothing to show that He can swim."

Folks, if you see a limitation in this game- CHALLENGE IT. Were there wide radius curves, fractional angle roads or single track rail until someone woke up one morning and said, "I want this enough to create it?" Steve (SteveMSim) has it exactly right (although I'd include SC4D's LEX, PegProd's PLEX, SFBT's Exchange, and any number of other fine places in the community where you can obtain virtually anything you might want). And, if you can't find it, make it. And if you don't have the skills to make it, take the time you'd otherwise spend lamenting what you're missing and learn how.

At the end, if the lack of realism in SC4 still bugs you, go play Real Life. My guess is that you'll find things about that which you don't like either. Trouble is, though- they are a lot harder to MOD.

My 2c.

David

[RedImperator 16]

Originally posted by: Tarkus

Originally posted by: ROFLyoshi

With the route query that tells you where people are going for work, it only shows people going to work. What it doesn't show is the shoppers at commercial service places.

quote>

Actually, arguably, it is.  If you look at the purported population density in SC4 given the official "scale" of the city tiles, and compare it to real-life cities of similar characteristics, you'll find the SC4 population is about 2-2.5x higher than the real-life population.  My working assumption has always been that this discrepancy was Maxis' way of creating an "ambient population" effect--population that doesn't actually live there but is necessary to make the simulator work in a realistic manner.quote>

I've always assumed that SC4 cities are "selectively compressed", the same way model railroaders will describe their model main lines as "selectively compressed" (I got my start in city simulation on model railroads, so I know a little bit about this).  In model railroading, unless you have club layout in an aircraft hangar, even a tiny scale railroad will have towns too close together and "main line" runs only a scale mile or two long.  You have to suspend disbelief enough to pretend that it's actually ten miles between whistle stops and the main line is one hundred miles from yard to yard.  I do the same for SimCity; in my imagination, a large city tile is 8km to a side and my 6x4 blocks are actually 12x8, while the population of the houses is halved (I tried the residential halver mod, but my custom content just crowds out all the Maxis houses it affects).

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Wow, I wasn't expecting such a response. The more you think about whats unrealistic, the angrier you get, then you finally appreciate what SC4 has done for realism. To sum it up, the main things that bug me are ones that can't be patched, like:

* Sims don't like to travel crosstown

* Lack of diagonal bridges

* The fact that every thing is square (roads, buildings etc)

But I love that the game is SO MODDABLE!

[D2629 3]

I think it's also important to realise what IS realistic, or at least close. And you also have to realise that the community has made it sooooo much better, remember when you first got the game and things like roundabouts were impossible and everything looked the same? It's different these days.

[north country dude 207]

Originally posted by: ROFLyoshi

Wow, I wasn't expecting such a response. The more you think about whats unrealistic, the angrier you get, then you finally appreciate what SC4 has done for realism. To sum it up, the main things that bug me are ones that can't be patched, like:

* Sims don't like to travel crosstown

* Lack of diagonal bridges

* The fact that every thing is square (roads, buildings etc)

But I love that the game is SO MODDABLE!quote>

Like David, I would like to add my two pennies here.

The three things you list as being un-moddable, can be or have been modded to some extent.

Sims don't like to travel crosstownquote>

The Sims will travel crosstown if encouraged to do so. This parameter can be changed with the NAM. Try the "Z" simulator explained here: NAM Traffic Simulator Z and Data View Support Thread

Lack of diagonal bridgesquote>

Although this is the most difficult thing to mod, it can be done. It just cannot be done the way ordinary bridges are created in SC4. Diagonal bridges would have to be made as an overhanging model (which cannot be pathed properly) and of a set span distance. In other words; a plopable Lot or puzzle piece spanning a predefined number of tiles.

You are right about there being a lack of diagonal bridges. They are extremely rare and such examples are very limited in scope and are somewhat static,...but it can still be done, after a fashion.

See topic: "Building curved bridges"

Other relevant topics: Lot Based Bridges , and  diagonal bridges, is it possible????

To sum it up, they are not impossible to make, just limited by the "grid". Perhaps more varieties of the limited diagonal type bridges( Lot based) will appear in the future.

The fact that every thing is square (roads, buildings etc)quote>

The mold for this has been partially broken. With the latest efforts from the NAM team and others, we now have curved roads and rails, Fractional Angled Roads (and rails) and lately on the STEX, buildings and Lots have been showing up that accomodate the "non-square" transit networks.

But I love that the game is SO MODDABLE!quote>

 Me too.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Yeah, I know of the diagonal bridge trick. When I say everything is square, I mean everything fits to a 90 or a 45 degree angle. It would be nice if buildings could fit into a 24 or a 69 degree angle or such. Roads like that would help too.

And thankyou to the STEX & NAM team as it has made a whole lot of things possible. Like not having to have 200 bloody Wren Insurance's dominate your skyline.

[north country dude 207]

Fractional Angled Roads and Rails(FAR and FARR)= 45, 22.5 and 12 degrees.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Which although a few buildings do exist for FAR, you can't rotate them to fit. I suppose you could take the models and build new lots for them, but that'd take a lot of work.

The unfortunate thing is despite SC4 being highly moddable, every mod slows the game down and clutters the menu.

"If you want a realistic city, you should download the entire STEX collection, create some buildings through BAT, and download and produce mods."

Well, you could do that, but then not only would SimCity 4 refuse to run but smoke would pour out of your computer.

[GingerBlokey 30]

Originally posted by: Tarkus

Originally posted by: ROFLyoshi

With the route query that tells you where people are going for work, it only shows people going to work. What it doesn't show is the shoppers at commercial service places.

quote>

Actually, arguably, it is.  If you look at the purported population density in SC4 given the official "scale" of the city tiles, and compare it to real-life cities of similar characteristics, you'll find the SC4 population is about 2-2.5x higher than the real-life population.  My working assumption has always been that this discrepancy was Maxis' way of creating an "ambient population" effect--population that doesn't actually live there but is necessary to make the simulator work in a realistic manner.

The most unrealistic aspect in SC4 for me is the default highways . . . they're actually half-scale compared to the other road networks and the real-world.

-Alex (Tarkus)

quote>

The highways might be out of scale for your freakish American highways but for us Brits they are the perfect scale. Since coming back from California I still can't get other just how many lanes it is you guys have.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

The highways look pretty good. In Australia they're 3-4 lanes, 5 tops.

[scifanata 1]

Okay, here we go.

About SimCity 4, it's really annoying how when you make neighborhoods, it all depends on the demand, so you can have one neighborhood with low, middle, AND high wealth...it's not like u can just designate it to one.

Everything is too square along with buildings being repetitive (Though i know it CAN be modded)

evertonforever1 made a good point about jobs and i agree.

The traffic flow is inverted, being more crowded in the suburb streets than on the highway.

There are no weather/climate changes!!

And all the civic buildings look the same: FOUR identical churches? A city hall 5-floors tall for 12,000? My city i live in has 15,000 and only 1 story city hall. No theme parks, racetracks, or particularly LARGE-SCALE development.

[MandelSoft 2,775]

Some other unrealistic points in SimCity:

- Region-wide motorways and other main routes should have lots of traffic in real life, but in SimCity 4, they can be completely empty. In one city of mine, that borders a city of almost 300K, there's no traffic moving towards or from the larger city on the motorways.

- The stoplights setups are not so advanced as in real life.

- The roads are too wide, even for american terms I believe (10 meters/over 30 ft. for a two-lane road? No way!)

Best,

Maarten

[toxicpiano 125]

It's a game. 

[jmusacha 2]

One feature that struck me as kinda ridiculous is that a region can have a major-league stadium in every city.  Now I dont care how big the metropolis is, there is no way any area in real life is gonna have like 10 stadiums in it the size of Yankee Stadium!

The same thing has been said before about every city having a large university, but to me that's not unrealistic at all.  The Boston metro area (6 million) has many many large universities, most of them taking up more land space than the maxis campuses!