The Simtropolis Closet

[subedei 3]

Date: 10/9/2005 5:37:07 AM Author: jmusshorn

Ah, the old myths of 'gay-ness'.

~ You can recruit people to it.

~ It's a choice.

~ It's only a lifestyle.

~ Gays will chase 'anything in pants' (again to use the old phrase )

First off, I will agree with Joesocwork on one thing. As with any group of people with a grouping definitive factor, there are indeed some norms associated with homosexuality. However, these are the same types of norms that African-American people get associated with (insofar as they can be blatantly insulting and sometimes downright untrue). So, please, to anyone who wants to discuss what they perceive as 'normal' of gay people, watch it: Just tread lightly, because you never know when you could say something really derogatory and hurtful.

Perhaps with these certain stereotypical norms that society (ESPECIALLY the media) has given us gay people, we [gay people] are more reluctant to identify with them [stereotypes] at all because when a gay person is associated with such practices and habits (hyper-grooming, 'fabulous' fashion sense, decorating abilities galor, et cetera), people often times look down upon these people as being weak and overly-effeminate. People, including even me, won't take such a person seriously. You see, with gay people it's definitely different from every other sort of group in the sense that you can never tell right off the bat who is who. With some people, you would never guess in a million years that they are gay. Others, you wouldn't guess in a million years that they were straight. You just can't be 100% sure, even with what they tell you. A closeted person could tell you that they were straight, and even then you wouldn't know the truth.

With this group, one must be especially careful not to sling around false fact and derogatory terminology, as there still seems to be some debate of the overall validity of such a group. 'Oh, it's a choice' 'it's just a mental illness' 'it's Satan in your body' (yes, I've heard the last one. It was screamed at me by a preacher who was trying to turn me straight. I'm dead serious.) What really annoys me is the fact that no-one seems to actually ask, or take the word of, the people who are actually gay! It always seems to be two heterosexual people who are arguing over whether homosexuality is biological or not, and to what extent is it real. Never have I heard a gay person give their point of view on the subject whilst the other members of the debate are actually listening to them and honoring their thoughts and facts.

It all comes back to the stereotypes. People have seen gay people as being weak, effeminate, and inferior for a long time, so still no-one is yet to truly take us seriously. Everyone needs to put their stereotypes and prejudices aside, and really think about this... Have you ever thought yourself to be gay? If not, then what is it any of your business telling others that gay people are wrong? Walk a mile in their shoes, and then re-think whether or not you want to open up that futile can of worms ever again.

Thank you.

~Jamie~

P.S. @Subedei: Well, of course people got upset at you. Your string of posting was the most insulting and rude thing that I've ever witnessed on this thread. Try being civil, and maybe try something you didn't try before: Have some fact (preferably scientific) to back up your opinions. Thanks a bunch.

quote>

 

I simply stated that in my opinion it is wrong. It appears to me that you all get upset when someone does not agree with your lifestyle. If you want/expect people to agree with your viewpoint than you must agree to others as well. Thanks

 

 

 

Subedei

[6underground 11]

But even in your counter-argument sub you're generalising a whole minority into a lifestlye, does every one on earth adhere to a single lifestyle, no they do not. So why think differently when it comes to homosexuals or bisexuals?

popular media hypes a contorted and grossly exagerrated caricature of gay men (in Queer as folk, queer eye for the straight guy ect..) Not all gay/bi men adhere to that type of lifestyle. If you are going to make a counter-argument such as what you have attempted to do, the least you could do is not generalise an entire minority. So please don't believe everything you see on T.V.

[Zelgadis 638]

Date: 10/10/2005 1:36:59 PM
Author: subedei

I simply stated that in my opinion it is wrong. It appears to me that you all get upset when someone does not agree with your lifestyle. If you want/expect people to agree with your viewpoint than you must agree to others as well. Thanks

Subedei

quote>

No, you didn't. Once again, you're missing the point. You barged in without saying hello, without trying to get to know any of us, insulted everyone here, and then expected everyone to play nice with you. It totally invalidates your viewpoint because you make no attempt to understand any of us.

How would you like it if I barged into your party and started telling everyone how your lifestyle is wrong?

Either make an attempt to get to know us or go away.

@jmusshorn: Luv the avatar. I made me a Final Fantasy one too. But I did think that me also using Cloud while you are would be tres gauche. Sooo... everyone meet Vincent. Shoot, he's cuter anyway. And mysterious...

BTW, does anyone here besides this weirdo (me) often find modern CG characters more appealing than real-life people?

ISF

[subedei 3]

Date: 10/10/2005 3:14:34 PM Author: zelgadis

Date: 10/10/2005 1:36:59 PM Author: subedei

I simply stated that in my opinion it is wrong. It appears to me that you all get upset when someone does not agree with your lifestyle. If you want/expect people to agree with your viewpoint than you must agree to others as well. Thanks

Subedei

quote> No, you didn't.  Once again, you're missing the point.  You barged in without saying hello, without trying to get to know any of us, insulted everyone here, and then expected everyone to play nice with you.  It totally invalidates your viewpoint because you make no attempt to understand any of us. How would you like it if I barged into your party and started telling everyone how your 'lifestyle' is wrong? Either make an attempt to get to know us or go away. @jmusshorn:  Luv the avatar.    I made me a Final Fantasy one too.  But I did think that me also using Cloud while you are would be tres gauche.  Sooo... everyone meet Vincent.    Shoot, he's cuter anyway.  And mysterious... BTW, does anyone here besides this weirdo (me) often find modern CG characters more appealing than real-life people? ISF

quote>

Actually I have to do niether. I have the right to express my viewpoints (as long as they are civil) whenever and where ever i want to. If memory serves my initial statements were about wether a gay thread is appropriate on a game website. Thanks

 

 

Subedei

[horrorkid64 0]

Date: 10/12/2005 7:37:18 AM
Author: subedei
If memory serves my initial statements were about wether a gay thread is appropriate on a game website. Thanks

[vidioman 21]

@sub: would you be happy if we started a Christianity fan club then? That way, you'd have your own place, seperate from us, to trash us all you wont.

 

They're quite sucessful at other forums, it might work here.

 

PS: enjoy the rest of the thread

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 10/12/2005 10:22:49 AM Author: vidioman

@sub: would you be happy if we started a Christianity fan club then? That way, you'd have your own place, seperate from us, to trash us all you wont.

They're quite sucessful at other forums, it might work here.

PS: enjoy the rest of the thread

No threads on religion or politics pls...

[vidioman 21]

Date: 10/12/2005 10:34:54 AM Author: Joesocwork

Date: 10/12/2005 10:22:49 AM Author: vidioman

@sub: would you be happy if we started a Christianity fan club then? That way, you'd have your own place, seperate from us, to trash us all you wont.

They're quite sucessful at other forums, it might work here.

PS: enjoy the rest of the thread

No threads on religion or politics pls...

quote>

Now, that's where it gets him. We can talk about our beleif but he can't talk about his, because it isn't allowed here..

 

Well, now he knows how most of us fell. Or have felt. Depending on where you lived.

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 10/12/2005 10:40:48 AM Author: vidioman

Date: 10/12/2005 10:34:54 AM Author: Joesocwork

Date: 10/12/2005 10:22:49 AM Author: vidioman

@sub: would you be happy if we started a Christianity fan club then? That way, you'd have your own place, seperate from us, to trash us all you wont.

They're quite sucessful at other forums, it might work here.

PS: enjoy the rest of the thread

No threads on religion or politics pls...

Now, that's where it gets him. We can talk about our beleif but he 'can't talk' about his, because it isn't allowed here..

Well, now he knows how most of us fell. Or have felt. Depending on where you lived.

Yeah, but the point, and the reason the thread is being kept, is not to stick it to somebody else or to tell/ask/request/demand others to hold certain ideological beliefs of any sorts, but simply for Members to share a little bit about their lives.  If it breaks down stereotypes in a noncoercive manner from anyone's perspective, then that's icing on the cake. 

[Alkaola 18]

there is no christian forum here , not allowed , but there is a gay forum so christians may express there meaning about gays

 

i have no problems with gays and i respect them as peole but i dont respect all of there thoughts............. especially how they are expressing sexuality

[GingerBlokey 30]

The fundermental difference between a gay and christian thread is that Homosexuality isnt an option. You opt for a religion or political view but you dont for homosexuality. Also as to the question wether it is suitable, it is.  <rude comments deleted> -JoeSocWork

Again, if this thread is to work, Members, pro or anti homosexual, need to refrain fr making dictates to those that disagree with yourselves or at least express your feelings in a more civil manner.

[jmusshorn 7]

Yes, exactly. Thank you.

You know, I am so absolutely sick of other people talking about gay people and their thoughts, practices, lifestyle as if they actually know what they're talking about! If you're not gay, stop bashing gay people as if you understand what they're all about.

Another thing is exactly right; This isn't anyone's choice. Religion: Choice. Political affiliation: Choice. Human sexuality: NOT choice. Quit persecuting people for having the confidence in them selves to actually admit to you who they are, especially having to do so with a world full of people that seem to think that they understand this subject more than those of us who live it.

Pfft. It sickens me, really.

~Jamie~

[6underground 11]

I couldn't agree with you more. What truly annoys me the most, and i mean it with such vigirous tenacity, is how all gay/bi people are all categorised into one lifestyle, it royally annoys me, to tell you the truth i am absouletly sick of hearing about people disagreeing with the lifestyle of gay and/or bisexual men/women.

What they do is listen and watch media portrayals of grossly exaggerated caricatures of gay/bi men, and think that's how all of the them are. Apparently to be gay/bi you must be promoscuious, be in tune with fashion trends, act camp or act very camp ect... all these very nice stereotypes.

It would be really nice to see a gay/bi character on T.V that actually serves as a decent role model, I'm so sick of the drivel...

i would go on and on, but i really cannot be bothered...

[Alkaola 18]

i am NOT NO !! NOT a homophobe ,  most gays are great people .

 

i don't wanna leave an impression as a gay hater , I AM NOT .... they just learned in my young years its a bad lifestyle , i mean i'm thinking about it i'm trying to nuance and relativate it !!!

 

im NOT a gay hater and i will never be... i'm just a christian as many of us on this site ... and a gay can be my best friend just as a straight one believe me ....

 

btw. .. here on simtrop i have also friends who are gay and i think they're great people !

 

yes we are all human and god will never have peace when christians hate gays so i never will.... honestly i like many of them some of them not just as hetero people

 

 

alk.

[Duke87 1,070]

Don't mind me, I'm just hanging up my coat....

[Zelgadis 638]

This topic should be discussed more in private then out in the open.

This was the key sentence in Sub's first post here. This is what is profoundly insulting. This is what we have had to put up with for centuries.

So I should just slither back under my little rock again and pretend to the world that I'm not who I am and that my fiance doesn't exist? Why can't I speak of my future husband just as casually as another man might speak of his future wife?

So it should be more in private... Then you don't actually want to get to know us. Why should we care about you if you don't care about us?

Yes, this is a game site, but it is a game site composed of people working together and sharing their lives, however virutally so. That's what off-topic is for and that's what this thread is for.

Everyone has the right to their views. But that doesn't make their views right. If I wanted to build a spaceship to go to Mars, I'm not going to hold the views of a rocket scientist and a botanist equally in that regard. Why? The botanist knows nothing about rocket science. And if that botanist insisted on having his/her views known to the rocket science community, that botanist would probably not appreciate the response.

Everyone has the right to free speech. And civilization depends on the individual discretion on the use of that free speech. If somebody were to say to his coworker or classmate, My, you're looking fat today! and said person got slapped, then said person would get no sympathy from others despite his claim of exercising his right to free speech.

You claim free speech, but then suggest this topic should be discussed more in private then out in the open.

Besides, Simtropolis is not a democracy.

We're here to have fun and chat with anyone who will approach us as friends.

And anyone who thinks this thread shouldn't be here needs to examine Gingerblokey's growth as a person over the past few months. He's on track to becoming a very fine young man, responsible citizen, and dare I say, good catch when he's older. No doubt, starting this thread helped him on that road.

ISF

P.S. @Gingerblokey: way cool new avatar.

[Joesocwork 4]

I like your avatar too GB.

[GingerBlokey 30]

I have to say this thread has bought me to tears on a number of occasions and this is just a new one. Zeg. Your bang on with everything you said in that post. And thankyou for the last bit, Im very complimented . Maybe Sub should just stay away from this thread ... forever.

ps. My new av, I made it myself . Bit rubbish really.

[Zelgadis 638]

As the Simtropolis Closet's resident old fart, I feel compelled to be the Official Simtropolis Closet Purveyor of Wisdom.

(Actually, I don't really mean that. I just wanted to use the words old fart and purveyor of wisdom in one sentence. I want the history books to take note that I was the first to do so. Now if I can only figure out how to get geopolitical anxieties and rootin' tootin in the same sentence...)

Anyway...

@Alkaola: I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you simply made a bad word choice. Perhaps I don't agree with them would have better expressed your views rather than I don't respect all their thoughts. If that's the case, fair enough then. Have a seat, have a cup of coffee, and we can all talk about a lot of nonsense and get to know each other.

@GingerBlokey: Not rubbish. It's so you!

I love this thread and I would really like to see it stay here and thrive. It is especially heartening to see the younger folks who are having the life that I couldn't have. On the other hand, it is also saddening that some people here are still paying for it, as I once did. (Look back on some of jmusshorn's posts for some good examples.) Still, it's better than it was 15 years ago. (OMG, has it been THAT long since I was 14??? Doesn't feel like it was that freaking long ago...)

ISF

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Good discussions, everyone. I especially commend you, Zelgadis... for telling it like it is so to speak.

Anyway, I just came across this article that I thought I might share... it's not all that surprising, but an interesting read nonetheless.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/12/health/webmd/main938234.shtml

[Aran 10]

Date: 10/12/2005 10:42:25 PM
Author: MallowTheCloud
...it's not all that surprising...

quote>

To you, perhaps. Jerry Falwell is probably wetting his bed just thinking about it. I'm always appreciative of positive media coverage about us, though.

There's been one constant in this country since it was founded: generational attitudes are shaped in large part by the media. The supportive books, web sites, magazines and other media today of today are spiritual decendents of Paine, Nast, Marconi, Hearst, and other movers-and-shakers of communication culture. These are the people that saw something wrong with the system (specifically or in general) and set about the task not of attacking that wrong, but of publicizing it.

Granted, yes, in some cases the wrongs were never addressed. In a lot of others, however, they were. Media coverage of the Vietnam conflict caused a public outcry; it remains to this day the only war in our country forced to an end by the public, not the political system. Media portrayal of the peaceful demonstrations against segregation led to public support of legislation that ended that as well. Maybe I'm being an optimist here...after all, people tend to blame the media for the degradation of values in our society today...but I believe that coverage of the second-class citizenship* that we gays are forced to endure in this country can only strengthen support for our own search for equal rights.

When our (all right, my) parents were children, segregation of black** citizens (citizens under the 14th amendment!) was considered acceptable and women were still relegated to secretarial-type jobs or expected to stay at home, raise a family, and obey their husbands like some sort of domestic animal. Excepting certain parts of the Cotton Belt, these attitudes have changed across the country. I expect that the same will hold true of the gay bias in this country. Could you imagine if, say, Will & Grace had been broadcast during the era of I Love Lucy? Or if Trick had been released to theatres alongside Citizen Kane? I can't. But we live in a far more modern, far more progressive era. Not a great time, mind you, but certainly getting better. It may not happen until I'm gone, which pains me more than I can really say, but I expect that the generation following mine and the one after that will see a marked difference in the treatment of gay people in this country.

I can only hope that the media can help the general public become more accepting of us. It certainly helped the racial minorities in this country and it definitly helped the cause of women's rights. Now it's our turn. When will we be free to live as we will under equal protection of the law? It seems only fair that if people cannot be persecuted on the basis of other genetic factors (skin color, gender, hereditary disability) than sexual orientation shouldn't make a d--- bit of difference.

-----

*second-class citizenship: any situation in which people are treated unfairly in society because of law or the unjust interpretation thereof. I might be able to marry in Massachusetts, but if my partner is in the emergency room in Toledo on our honeymoon, I won't be allowed in the room to comfort him.

**black: I use this term because a) I really deplore the usage (insert racial heritage here)-American and b) that's how dark-skinned people call themselves where I grew up. If you're living here, you're an American. Period. Other than white-supremacy groups and various religious sects...who cares what color you are? I seem to recall some phrase about judging a book by it's cover...

[BlackStar 0]

I'm interested in hearing where people from the last few posts live.
I mean, somewhere like the United States in theory should be ahead of the rest of the world with TV series such as Will & Grace, Queer Eye for the Staight Guy coming out from there. That, and the progressed social demographic the... overbearing media have created there, would lead me to believe that if anything, the US in general is an understanding place.

The last few posts from US/Canadian members lead me to believe otherwise.

However, on this small pointy county which sticks out into the middle of the Atlantic, I find that the homosexual acceptance is very high, and that we have no problems with such

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 10/12/2005 7:37:18 AM Author: subedei

Date: 10/10/2005 3:14:34 PM Author: zelgadis

Date: 10/10/2005 1:36:59 PM Author: subedei

I simply stated that in my opinion it is wrong. It appears to me that you all get upset when someone does not agree with your lifestyle. If you want/expect people to agree with your viewpoint than you must agree to others as well. Thanks

Subedei

quote> No, you didn't.&amp;nbsp; Once again, you're missing the point.&amp;nbsp; You barged in without saying hello, without trying to get to know any of us, insulted everyone here, and then expected everyone to play nice with you.&amp;nbsp; It totally invalidates your viewpoint because you make no attempt to understand any of us. How would you like it if I barged into your party and started telling everyone how your 'lifestyle' is wrong? Either make an attempt to get to know us or go away. @jmusshorn:&amp;nbsp; Luv the avatar.&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; I made me a Final Fantasy one too.&amp;nbsp; But I did think that me also using Cloud while you are would be tres gauche.&amp;nbsp; Sooo... everyone meet Vincent.&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp; Shoot, he's cuter anyway.&amp;nbsp; And mysterious... BTW, does anyone here besides this weirdo (me) often find modern CG characters more appealing than real-life people? ISF

quote>

Actually I have to do niether. I have the right to express my viewpoints (as long as they are civil) whenever and where ever i want to. If memory serves my initial statements were about wether a gay thread is appropriate on a game website. Thanks

Subedei

quote>

 

Date: 10/12/2005 4:43:16 PM Author: zelgadis 'This topic should be discussed more in private then out in the open.' This was the key sentence in Sub's first post here.&nbsp; This is what is profoundly insulting.&nbsp; This is what we have had to put up with for centuries. So I should just slither back under my little rock again and pretend to the world that I'm not who I am and that my fiance doesn't exist?&nbsp; Why can't I speak of my future husband just as casually as another man might speak of his future wife? So it should be more in private...&nbsp; Then you don't actually want to get to know us.&nbsp; Why should we care about you if you don't care about us? Yes, this is a game site, but it is a game site composed of people working together and sharing their lives, however virutally so.&nbsp; That's what off-topic is for and that's what this thread is for. Everyone has the right to their views.&nbsp; But that doesn't make their views right.&nbsp;

quote>

 

zelgadis: To be honest, I fail to comprehend how such a neutral, bland statement could be interpreted in such a way, as would make it insulting to the degree that you've described it. Certainly, one could probably extricate, with great difficulty, some sense of intense hate in that message, but as afore-mentioned, I really cannot see that.

 

Date: 10/12/2005 10:40:48 AM Author: vidioman

Date: 10/12/2005 10:34:54 AM Author: Joesocwork

Date: 10/12/2005 10:22:49 AM Author: vidioman

@sub: would you be happy if we started a Christianity fan club then? That way, you'd have your own place, seperate from us, to trash us all you wont.

They're quite sucessful at other forums, it might work here.

PS: enjoy the rest of the thread

No threads on religion or politics pls...

quote>

Now, that's where it gets him. We can talk about our beleif but he 'can't talk' about his, because it isn't allowed here..

Well, now he knows how most of us fell. Or have felt. Depending on where you lived.

quote>

 

I think that's exactly what he and many other people feel.

 

Date: 10/12/2005 11:13:07 AM Author: Joesocwork

Date: 10/12/2005 10:40:48 AM Author: vidioman

Date: 10/12/2005 10:34:54 AM Author: Joesocwork

Date: 10/12/2005 10:22:49 AM Author: vidioman

@sub: would you be happy if we started a Christianity fan club then? That way, you'd have your own place, seperate from us, to trash us all you wont.

They're quite sucessful at other forums, it might work here.

PS: enjoy the rest of the thread

No threads on religion or politics pls...

Now, that's where it gets him. We can talk about our beleif but he 'can't talk' about his, because it isn't allowed here..

Well, now he knows how most of us fell. Or have felt. Depending on where you lived.

Yeah, but the point, and the reason the thread is being kept, is not to stick it to somebody else or to tell/ask/request/demand others to hold certain ideological beliefs of any sorts, but simply for Members to share a little bit about their lives.&nbsp; If it breaks down stereotypes in a noncoercive manner from anyone's perspective, then that's icing on the cake.

quote>

 

joesocwork: Forgive me if I seem a little obtuse in my interpreting of that highlighted statement, but it seems to me that this is a thread to share a little bit about each other's lives.

 

If so, then is it really necessary to embellish such a thread with the word 'closet', which has, as I'm sure most are aware, has a gay/homosexual (subject to personal preference) connotation? I would've thought a simple thread title something to the effect of 'Sharing our lives' or 'Grandmother Bunny's dreadfully dull tales of a non-sensitive and divisive nature' would have sufficed.

 

The word 'closet' and the numerous discussions of 'non-mainstream' lifestyle afford a rather different air to what is supposed to be a place to 'share a little bit about (your) lives'.

 

Also, it's not often that a moderator gives a personal indulgence and guaranteed protection to a thread, especially to one, it would seem, so divisive and sensitive.

 

After all, I was always under the impression that religious and political threads were taboo here at Simtropolis precisely because of their 'divisive' nature and the supposed vitriol and flaming that came along with it.

 

I must confess my confusion and slight indignation that a thread on gay/homosexual (subject to personal preference) life, advice and comfort and its associated elements is allowed to flourish, yet threads on religion and politics, with their innumerable adherents, largely mild nature and positive elements, are shunned and looked upon with the greatest of scorn. Surely we have a larger religious community or even a larger body of voters than this thread has.

 

I pray that my little article will not provoke an overly negative response. Furthermore, I trust that I am being adequately civil in my expression of my personal views and opinions, the exercising if which, as I am told by zelgadis, will surely not attract any undue criticism.

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 10/14/2005 6:41:30 AM Author: ephorex_77

 

Date: 10/12/2005 11:13:07 AM Author: Joesocwork

Yeah, but the point, and the reason the thread is being kept, is not to stick it to somebody else or to tell/ask/request/demand others to hold certain ideological beliefs of any sorts, but simply for Members to share a little bit about their lives.&amp;nbsp; If it breaks down stereotypes in a noncoercive manner from anyone's perspective, then that's icing on the cake.

joesocwork: Forgive me if I seem a little obtuse in my interpreting of that highlighted statement, but it seems to me that this is a thread to share a little bit about each other's lives.

 

If so, then is it really necessary to embellish such a thread with the word 'closet', which has, as I'm sure most are aware, has a gay/homosexual (subject to personal preference) connotation? I would've thought a simple thread title something to the effect of 'Sharing our lives' or 'Grandmother Bunny's dreadfully dull tales of a non-sensitive and divisive nature' would have sufficed.

The word 'closet' and the numerous discussions of 'non-mainstream' lifestyle afford a rather different air to what is supposed to be a place to 'share a little bit about (your) lives'.

Also, it's not often that a moderator gives a personal indulgence and guaranteed protection to a thread, especially to one, it would seem, so divisive and sensitive.

After all, I was always under the impression that religious and political threads were taboo here at Simtropolis precisely because of their 'divisive' nature and the supposed vitriol and flaming that came along with it.

I must confess my confusion and slight indignation that a thread on gay/homosexual (subject to personal preference) life, advice and comfort and its associated elements is allowed to flourish, yet threads on religion and politics, with their innumerable adherents, largely mild nature and positive elements, are shunned and looked upon with the greatest of scorn. Surely we have a larger religious community or even a larger body of voters than this thread has.

I pray that my little article will not provoke an overly negative response. Furthermore, I trust that I am being adequately civil in my expression of my personal views and opinions, the exercising if which, as I am told by zelgadis, will surely not attract any undue criticism.

I didn't choose the title of the thread.

And yes, so far it is difficult balance; this could indeed be one of the most controversial threads that SimTropolis has ever permitted.  And it is definitely one of the most difficult ever to moderate by SimTropolis standards.  This, like other threads, requires self-monitoring and a mutual respect of differences of opinion without making or taking things personally.  Fortunately, self-monitoring, IMHO, and for the mostpart,  has  been one of greatest strengths of the SimTropolis Community as a whole.

As to the other types of threads you mentioned, they have been tried before and not been successful b/c members sometimes did make things personal.  Let's see how this one goes before the Dirktatorship (and the staff at Off-Topic) decides about allowing other potentially controversial subjects to pass.

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Date: 10/14/2005 6:41:30 AM
Author: ephorex_77
joesocwork: Forgive me if I seem a little obtuse in my interpreting of that highlighted statement, but it seems to me that this is a thread to share a little bit about each other's lives.

If so, then is it really necessary to embellish such a thread with the word 'closet', which has, as I'm sure most are aware, has a gay/homosexual (subject to personal preference) connotation? I would've thought a simple thread title something to the effect of 'Sharing our lives' or 'Grandmother Bunny's dreadfully dull tales of a non-sensitive and divisive nature' would have sufficed.

The word 'closet' and the numerous discussions of 'non-mainstream' lifestyle afford a rather different air to what is supposed to be a place to 'share a little bit about (your) lives'.

Also, it's not often that a moderator gives a personal indulgence and guaranteed protection to a thread, especially to one, it would seem, so divisive and sensitive.

After all, I was always under the impression that religious and political threads were taboo here at Simtropolis precisely because of their 'divisive' nature and the supposed vitriol and flaming that came along with it.

I must confess my confusion and slight indignation that a thread on gay/homosexual (subject to personal preference) life, advice and comfort and its associated elements is allowed to flourish, yet threads on religion and politics, with their innumerable adherents, largely mild nature and positive elements, are shunned and looked upon with the greatest of scorn. Surely we have a larger religious community or even a larger body of voters than this thread has.

quote>

Hi Ephorex.

First of all, and I apologize if I personally read it the wrong way, but I thought joesocwork was not saying that this thread is the ONLY thread for people to share a little bit about each other's lives. It's for the gay/bisexual community to do that. There are other threads that allow the same type of thing... i.e. the picture thread, the birthday thread, and any number of small threads that aren't pinned like the hey weirdo... thread. This is simply one of the MANY threads that allows people to share a little bit about each other's lives


Second, and here's where I think I have a problem with what you and subedei are saying, comparing religion or politics to sexuality is not fair at all. Sexuality is not a choice, religion and politics are. People who 'do not agree with the Hindu/Christian/Jewish/etc. lifestyle' have somewhat of a valid point, because religion is a choice. Therefore, a topic started on religion is going to have any number of valid arguments against it, and become controversial.

People who 'do not agree with the liberal/conservative/liberatarian/etc. lifestyle' have another valid point, because once again, politics are a choice. Therefore, a topic started on politics is going to have any number of valid arguments against it, and become controversial.

However, sexuality is not a choice. People who 'do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle' without any basis as to why cannot and have not shown that their point of view is valid for any reason. If they have religious reasons, then, I'm sorry to say, but owing to previous rules, religion cannot be discussed. Please PM one of us if you have questions about morality and religion (is that allowed?), and you will most definately get a response there.

Comparison: somebody starts a thread for blacks to 'hang out' as it were. Why should those who don't agree with the black lifestyle (people which still exist today), even IF they were in the majority or the slight majority, have the right to censor that thread?


I guess the whole point I'm trying to make is, religion and politics fall in to a different category than sexuality.

Religion and politics are controversial because there are multiple valid viewpoints which contradict each other, and nobody has or can do a study to prove which side is better than another.
Sexuality is controversial only because of some opinions not based on anything (or possibly based on religion), and therefore is simply 'morally wrong,' a word that can take any number of interpretations. The vast majority (as in all modern) evidence suggests that homosexuality is 'natural'... as in it is not a choice. And therefore it's like skin color, except not visible. And why should an attribute of oneself be used to spark contriversy?

[Meg 368]

Date: 10/14/2005 5:51:01 AM Author: BlackStar
I'm interested in hearing where people from the last few posts live. I mean, somewhere like the United States in theory should be ahead of the rest of the world with TV series such as Will & Grace, Queer Eye for the Staight Guy coming out from there. That, and the progressed social demographic the... overbearing media have created there, would lead me to believe that if anything, the US in general is an understanding place.

The last few posts from US/Canadian members lead me to believe otherwise.

However, on this small pointy county which sticks out into the middle of the Atlantic, I find that the homosexual acceptance is very high, and that we have no problems with such

quote>

It can be difficult to generalize about Americans when it comes to opinions on controversial topics.  Pick any such topic and you will find large numbers of us are various different sides of the issue.  It is our job as citizens to speak up with our opinions and we have a tendency to do it.

On this particular topic, you will find large numbers of Americans with the view that

[GingerBlokey 30]

I have to say I chose the title of this thread. I did it for one reason. I had just come out so the closet was on my mind and I thought that it is quite a good name for a kinda gay club. Also I was not going to call it Gay Thread as it would have been shut instantlly.

[simonuts 0]

This should be pinned in fact

[subedei 3]

Well said Ephorex you touched on everyone of my points accurately.  I think it all boils down to whether this thread should be on ST or not. Thanks

 

 

Subedei

[vidioman 21]

I like gay bar names. It's always something punny, like cockpit or appollo or something dumb like that

The Simtropolis Cockpit might confuse some people, though..

 

@BlackStar : most of the major urban centres in North America are very tolerant, especially place like New york, Toronto, and of course, San Francisco. It's more the smaller places where it's less tolerant. Even in more rural parts of Canada, like the prairies, out of the way parts of the maritimes, and the northern [parts of the] Provinces are quite intolerant. My city, for example, is (according to the media, and those guys with signs by the mall) very anti-gay, on a Canadian scale (we'd probably be about moderate compared to most of the US), and some people have said I shudder to think what would happen should we have a gay pride parade! (it'd definately get covered on the Situation Room, though) So it isn't really the whole continenet, just the large urban centres.

 

There are less people in less-populated areas that talk about this sort of thing. Compared to even Duluth the gay population of all of North Ontario is miniscule, because there is high intolerance. Just 200 miles south, though, you've reached one of the most Liberal small cities in the upper midwest.

 

It just depends on where you are. And, shows like Will and Grace, and Queer Eye don't get as much air time on Tv stations in less populated areas. For the first time in about 3 years, Will and Grace is on our local station. for a while, it was only available on cable.

 

And even though their very sparsly populated, from what I've seen, the territories are quite tolerant, except parts of Yukon and suburban Yellowknife.