The Simtropolis Closet Thread - deux!

[astronelson 339]

It seems that with all the discussion about crossdressing Asians, we missed the US's National Coming Out Day, which was on the 11th. Just thought the day should probably be noted as having occurred.

[Duke of York 23]

 True a little late but...Happy National coming out day ! 

-DOY

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Originally posted by: s.i.X

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Originally posted by: s.i.X

I had a weird dream and now I am pretty sure that Snap, Crackle and Pop are homophobic but Count Chocula is cool and he'll give you a kidney if you need one.quote>

You've got to be kidding.  I always though of them as a ménage à trois.  As for the Chocolate Count, I wouldn't let those fangs anywhere near me.  His theme song is "Fangs for the memory".

quote>

Just because someone is homophobic doesn't mean they're not gay. They might be a ménage à trois but they hate themselves for it.

Sad.

quote>

That sure is a lot to get from a cereal box and some animated commercials.  Are you sure you are not nosferatu yourself?

[s.i.X 13]

Maybe...

[Duke of York 23]

  Wow you know I just noticed we are lacking in the music department in the Closet. So therefore I am placing a boom box on the second shelf ....Oh yes this will do.

Long Live Queen 

-Yorkie 

[Wrightguy0 40]

woo! heh, new game i'm laying, Fallout: New Vegas has a special trait you can add yo your character, confirmed bachelor which gives you special dialogue options with male NPC's, it comes in quite handy, and it's nice to have that unique bit of personalization

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Wrightguy0

new game i'm layingquote>

Epic typo, or freudian slip?

[astronelson 339]

*Opens the door, sending up clouds of dust*

*Coughs and wheezes for a few minutes*

*Grabs the vacuum cleaner and duster and cleans up the cobwebs and dust*

Just came in with some promising news from Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/15/3067122.htm?site=news

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/16/3067694.htm?site=news

Not much as of yet, but we'll see where this leads.

[Meg 368]

A local story that made Sports Illustrated:

Acceptance of GW transgender basketball player a good life lesson

[Duke87 1,070]

The facts are that we live in a world where gender is fluid: biologically, psychologically and socially. Sports, with its rigid separations of locker rooms, bathrooms, and teams, will need to figure out a way to confront this reality in the years to come.quote>

The locker room problem is the toughest one. People out of functional neccesity strip down to levels that are not decent for public in there, and avoiding awkwardness is dependant on no one being attracted to anyone else in the room. The existence and acceptance of the LGBT crowd utterly demolishes this system and there isn't an easy alternative. Sure, you could make it normal for people to go into individual stalls to change their clothes... but that would take up so much space as to be impossible to retrofit. There's also the issue that plenty of people will find even just being in a stall next to someone who they know is arttracted to them to be outside of their comfort zone, although that can be gotten over. It's tough to say where this one will go.

The bathroom issue is the easiest one: there really is no pressing reason why we need to have separate men's and women's rooms. Indeed, many places already don't. So, in the future you may see public restrooms where there will simply be one larger one instead of two smaller ones. Then again, this issue really only affects the Ts, not the Ls Gs and Bs. So, a simpler system of "use the one that matches your physical gender" or "don't let it bother you if someone who appears to be of the opposite gender enters your restroom" may suffice.

As for teams... well, men's bodies are naturally bigger and stronger than women's, so it isn't necessarily fair to make them compete against each other. In contact sports, you get issues of sexual harassment. And in particularly rough sports, it could even be downright dangerous for women to mix them with men (could you imagine women playing in the NFL? Not a good idea). And having adult women in professional sports also brings up the potential problem of "what do you do when your star athlete gets pregnant?"

But coed teams already exist, and they could become more prevalent, even if they never take over completely.

[jakehh 52]

Is quite entertaining here. I might like it here

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Duke87:  You make quite a good set of points but with the current breaking down of barriers, isn't it time for the sillinesses of body modesty go to the way of the great Awk?

It is all a matter of education.  I agree that physically, women in general don't work out in many contact sports like football, but there are mixed hockey teams.  The thing about U.S. football is all the hypertrophied man-meat on the field.  If mass were not a criterion in the football line, I don't think there would be a barrier to women.  American/Canadian footbal is about mass and muscle, and these are really not femine qualities as a rule.  Though some lady wrestlers (amateur and pro) could be an exception that proves the rule.

[Zelgadis 638]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Duke87:  You make quite a good set of points but with the current breaking down of barriers, isn't it time for the sillinesses of body modesty go to the way of the great Awk?

quote>

I have to say I agree with that 100%.  Anytime I hear the "oh noes!  Teh gays are gonna see me nekkid in the locker room!" argument, my first and only thought is, "For Heaven's sakes, get a grip."  

ISF

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

  Thanks for the belly laugh, Ian.  You've made my day when things are not going well. The days of seeing gays as sexual predators must end.  -john

[Chptrk 86]

Originally posted by: jakehh

Is quite entertaining here. I might like it here quote>

Yea, I think I can re-affirm that...even just after the last few posts.

Welcome! Make youself at home! Unles you're messy at home, then make yourself at a friends house, when you (hopefully) don't leave it as messy.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

The days of seeing gays as sexual predators must end.quote>

I don't think that's really the issue. No sane person is worried about getting molested by a gay guy. There are, however, plenty of people who are uncomfortable showing off their body to someone who may be aroused by it. Not because they are afraid of anything happening to them, but merely because the situation is awkward.

Nobody blinks an eye at women not wanting random straight man #34 to see them naked, and nobody suggests that they're thinking of straight men as sexual predators. How is it really any different if men (straight or not) don't want random gay man #23 to see them naked?

We can't have it both ways. Either the rules of modesty apply to both heterosexual and homosexual interactions, or they apply to neither.

Yes, this is just a societal norm and not an inherent issue, so it absolutely can change and to some degree will have to. But no double standards, please.

[jakehh 52]

Originally posted by: Chptrk

Yea, I think I can re-affirm that...even just after the last few posts.

Welcome! Make youself at home! Unles you're messy at home, then make yourself at a friends house, when you (hopefully) don't leave it as messy.

quote>

I can always try.

[Zelgadis 638]

No double standards here at all.

You are forgetting one very massive difference here. A gay man or woman in a locker room is going to see bits and pieces that he/she has seen every single day of his/her entire life. A gay person in that situation is not going to get aroused unless he/she is actively trying to become so.

ISF

[Chptrk 86]

Actively trying to become aroused? Isn't that kinda saying their choosing when to get arroused? Which kinda leads down a path I don't think is true...

[Duke87 1,070]

I think the point Zel is making is that for a gay person there is nothing special about seeing their own kind of naughty bits, so they aren't going to be getting all sorts of urges to "check people out" in the same way straight people do.

I can believe that that may be true of some people, although I'm having a tough time believing that it's true as a general rule.

Fortunately, we have a sample group we can poll here. Well guys, would you say that describes you?

[Vahr 341]

I've never checked out anyone in a locker room, I just change and head out. Most people do here, its not a big deal.

Though I dunno about the locker rooms elsewhere, but the most you'll see in a school or public wellness center locker room here (other than arms, legs, head, etc) is someone's chest and their underwear.

[Zelgadis 638]

Yes, that's what I'm getting at. I'm definitely well aware that arousal can happen pretty much anytime, anywhere, for any reason with guys, and that goes for gay or straight. So, aside from the occasional "whoopsy" caused by a stray naughty thought that could happen to anyone, a gay guy would have to be making an effort to check out the other guys in the locker room.

Since you have your sample here, I've spent quite enough time in both locker rooms and bathhouses and there is a mountain of difference between the two, despite the fact that they're both full of nudity. I've personally never found locker rooms to be the slightest bit stimulating and in real life are absolutely nothing like the fantasy you can get on DVD in some stores.

ISF

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Last night I watched a National Geographic two hour essay on Pompeii and Herculaneum.  At one point there was a discussion of the sexual mores of the Romans, and it was quite frank.  I have studied ancient Rome very closely and found nothing to contradict what I knew.  Romans were not obsessed with sex, but just accepted it as part of normal living.  It was no big deal, and co-ed facilities of all kinds were normal.

Roman baths, however, had separate pools for men and women.  Reason not given, but one can guess that men would object to swimming with women who were in their moon days.  The pool operators probably objected too, but sometimes these things come upon one unannounced.

Of some interest was a community latrine with rows of seating with no barriers.  The water from the adjacent baths was used to flush it.

I suspect that a lot of the body taboos came about as a reaction to all this in the middle ages (after the fall in about 450 A.D).  The church people would have found lots of precedent for all this in the old testament.  The worst thing that happened in the interregnum was that bathing was denigrated.  This must have caused health problems by the bucket full, scabies being the least problem.  (Little Roman boys racing to the pond for a swim used to yell "Scabies occupet ultimo" (May the itch catch the last.) which is equivalent to our "Last one in is a rotten egg").

The program actually concentrated on the deterioration of the two sites.  They are really hurting for funding, and since the excavations, the weather has been raising the dickens with things like the plaster, the frescoes, and so on.  Since everything was baked out in the pyroclastic flows that buried the two towns, it is very delicate.  This includes wooden furniture which was carbonised, but was relatively intact.  Wooden artifacts from the high Roman era (79 A.D) are found almost nowhere else.  There is a full description of the destruction as seen from across the bay in Naples in two letters from Pliny the Younger who was present.  Both documents have survived to this day.

The old stories about Pompeii and Herculaneum being pleasure cities are false.  Both were sea ports and heavy trading cities.  The other stories came out of the Victorian era when even archaeologists were on the repressed side.

[Duke of York 23]

 Well I just went to my first all gay bar...I even had the guts to sing because they had karoke night...

I sung something I always wanted to sing and finally I did. Oh and I got a guys number as well 

 It was so cool....Thats what I sung. Take a walk on the wild side 

-DoY

[astronelson 339]

I hope you had a good time DoY! I haven't ever been to a gay bar. Bars in general aren't really my kind of thing, but I might go to one someday. You never know.

I have, however, sung karaoke. It was nerve-wracking, but enjoyable.

Good luck with the guy whose number you got. I hope it turns out well for you.

[EyeofMobius 27]

Since I feel now that Simtropolis is a healthy, intelligent and supportive online community I feel comfortable in saying that I am Bi and Polyamourous and am happy to join the conversation here.

[Zelgadis 638]

Now we know who you are!  Mwa ha ha ha!

Kidding.    Simtropolis is absolutely and utterly against bullying of any kind and unlike a lot of places, we really mean that.  

ISF

 

[Server 1]

Originally posted by: Duke of York

 Well I just went to my first all gay bar...I even had the guts to sing because they had karoke night...

I sung something I always wanted to sing and finally I did. Oh and I got a guys number as well 

 It was so cool....Thats what I sung. Take a walk on the wild side 

-DoYquote>

Love that song and love Lou Reed. Apparently the song Pale Blue Eyes off one of Velvel Underground's albums (another beautiful song) is about a boy he met in Europe.

[Zelgadis 638]

Heh.  Does any of this sound familiar?  

(Taken from Uncle John's Bathroom Reader.  Okay, not the most definitive source on the planet, but I've found it pretty reliable on most things.  )

Forks.  Before forks became popular, the difference between refined and common people was the number of fingers they ate with.  The upper classes used three; everyone else used five.  This began to change in the 11th century, when tiny, two-pronged forks became fashionable in Italian high society.  But they didn't catch on; the Catholic Church opposed them as unnatural (it was an insult to imply that the fingers that God gave us weren't good enough for food), and people who used them were ridiculed as effeminate or pretentious.  Forks weren't generally considered polite until the 18th century - some 800 years after they were first introduced.quote>

ISF

 

[Muck308 55]

So you're saying that forking was frowned upon until recently? What about spooning?