SimHoTToDDy BATs

[SimFox 802]

Gleni:

You can say "in real life" ONLY if you do, or at least did see it in real life. Photographs are notoriously dangerous (for those who are not dealing with them on a regular basic - eg making them) to pass such judgment.

here:

building is shot against partially overcast sky and against the light. So it is actually very underexposed. But because it is pretty light you don't see it. To understand the level of underexposure look at the foliage. It is almost black. Now if you make it appear normal (as your eyes would see it) this what we would have:

About parapet wall... well let's take a look:

it is about 20-30 cm tops... if you translate it into BAT it would be about 1-2 pixel tall... So...

also you're right this biding hasn't been re-painted in 20+ years... So it's of natural weathered concrete color. BTW this shoot is also slightly underexposed. Still you can see the gray here pretty well. Keep in mind that this is a SHADOW side.

I know you like dark colors all your work is very very dark... and that is just a personal preference, nothing wrong with that, but you shouldn't make claim that it is a realistic picture...

PS. take a look at the building in the background...

[Jasoncw 11,841]

I super agree with SimFox.

Also, I agree about photography, especially with buildings like these ones which have so much "baggage". These buildings are often depicted as being very dystopian, and dirty, when in reality the architecture is utopian, and the buildings themselves are actually quite ordinary in real life. We all need to be careful when looking at photography of buildings and places as they are very charged. Photography isn't objective, after all. This happens in Detroit a lot. Some photographers will try to make places look as cheerful and healthy as possible, to promote a good image of the city. Some photographers think blight and urban decay is interesting, so they try to make these places look as bleak as possible. But in reality, grass is grass, whether it's growing in an empty lot or a well manicured lawn. A brick in an abandoned house is the same as a brick anywhere else. The leaf on a tree growing inside of an abandoned building is a leaf just like that on the tree in the beautiful garden. In real life everything turns out to be very ordinary, as long as you let yourself see things for what they really are.

Also, seeing the photograph, it looks like those two blank walls are more pronounced on the real building. It looks like they stick out past the main facade, and are also taller than the rest of the building, while on yours they look pretty flush.

[Gn_leugim 858]

I do like more the Lighter version indeed.. or maybe a mid case..

[kant01 5]

I like them both But if I was going for something that looked liked it belonged in a R$ category than I would probably favor the darker version.

[art128 4,618]

I like the two version, I really like the second one ! great work !

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

The color of this building was a bit of an enigma to be honest. It is less a painted white structure as much as it was a clean, light colored concrete. So, you are both right to be honest. The painted buildings are still quite bright and white, as Simfox noted in that last picture, but this is not one of them. My building was a bit dark, but I did that because I was concerned that it would look too bright. Realistically, the wall would be shorter, there would be almost NO roof junk, and the roof itself would be very dark (tar paper from the looks of it), but I took some liberties to keep it interesting and not strange looking.

And to be honest, I based my textures on pictures that were rather white in comparison (especially considering the painted buildings), so that isn't the issue with me

Jason: hmmm, I might have to exaggerate it a bit more then, there is a half meter+ difference between them, I guess it doesn't translate at this angle.

Brightened it, not white, but I think it is good enough. I just have to figure out how I am going to make the decoration without killing myself.

[mosin33 5]

WOW!!!!! the building on page 8 Todd is simply amazing. For its style and low wealth look it is.....easily one of the best buildings I have ever seen created here!!!! (at simtropolis) I dont know what it is but the details are perfect and not to much of anything.

Roof looks amazing!!! Textures are very good.....and the windows are insane!!

But....Its too dark..............but I think simfox's version is way to light. Both light and dark look cool but I think imbetween would be perfect..

Best Building I have seen!!!!

-Mosin  i love it!

Ps--My last post was referring to the very front page buildings...just ignore it!

[spa 970]

Love the roof junk! Isn't there a halfway between Simfox's super white and your dark version? I think if you brightened yours just a notch it would be close to perfect (at the end of the day it's all a matter of taste). Jason raises some interesting points regarding lieing photographs. It's interesting how colour changes depending on time of day and whether it's sunny or cloudy. I would add though the flip side of the coin, that many people who are downloading this type of building are actually looking for that exaggerated bleakness to fill that mental image that biased photographs have planted in our collective subsconscious. I guess it's kind of the chicken and the egg in a way

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

I think I matched it up pretty well with that picture in simfox's last post, I like where it is now and I don't plan to make it any lighter (sorry Simfox, you gamma fiend you!)

Anyway, thank you for the existential examination here, quite enlightening

Oh, and I finished a detail that has been plaguing me for days now, not that it is subtle.

I think I like this one, I think I'll Upload it first (once I'm done with nightlights of course)

-Todd

[SimFox 802]

Well, still too dark :-) (btw you have to remember that picture shows effectively SHADOW side of the building)

but...

you're the man... so, my only request be - make 2 versions - one with the crest and one without. It would look silly if there will be crest on every building since it is one that is mass constructed..

[Gn_leugim 858]

is better the building with the crest hsoul be a landmark one, while the others growable

[scotty222 549]

i agree about the crest, it wouldnt be quite so awesome if it popped up everywhere

BTW i love this building

[Jasoncw 11,841]

About the side walls, I think they stuck out far enough before on top, but they are also supposed to stick out from the side as well (horizontally).

I think the brighter version is better, but I think it could be brighter still.  I think in the game it will still read as a dark building.  But if you say so... 

The crest is looking good.  It's hard to see though.  Maybe you could make that slightly brighter as well, to help contrast it with the framework?

Anyway, looking great. 

[kant01 5]

Just beautiful The crest turned out so nicely. I am really looking forward to seeing that lit up.

Also, I think it would be fine if this version with the crest was growable but I can understand why some might not want it that way.

Keep up the good work!

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

I'm not sure how many time I have said it already, but I suppose I can say it one more time.

*ahem*

I am going to make two separate versions, with and without the crest on top. Not all of them in Pripiat have the crest, so all of in them SC4 will not have one (plus I know how tacky some details get when you grow the 50th one in your city )

By the way, I looked at it in game and it looks, well, in the middle as far as brightness goes. Not quite as wild as Simfox's, not nearly as dark as mine. I think that's fair I'll play with the color of the crest a bit more, I originally had a brighter version, but it looked too foreign on top of the building. I'll defiantly make it stand out when I light it though.

-Todd

[Gn_leugim 858]

haven't you started with the lights yet? is all that keeps you from uploading this right?

[granto93 4]

very nice work! i think the textures are just right and i really do love the crest your attention to detail is also exceptional. looking forward to maybe seeing this one on the STEX!

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

Thanks guys, and yes, I hope to get this one on the STEX soon.

And then Todd said, "Let there be light" And there was. Actually this was much easier than I though it was, just tell me what you think because I'm still not sure about some of it.

-Todd

[beebs 129]

I never noticed the reflections on the roof when you showed us in chat. That looks great! Can't wait for this!

[_Atticus 10]

Wow, that truly is amazing. Really. The brilliant light that the commie insignia casts on the roof, coupled with excellent nightlights and a great everything-else definitely make this your best BAT.

Great job, but for real though.

-Pingangster

[scotty222 549]

That is awesome especially the roof thingy light

the lights on the main building may be a bit too yellow but its not a big deal

[mosin33 5]

I will say it again..........this is my favorite building!!!!! Everything looks so good and wouldn't change any of it! Great job!

Also how do you make those windows so cool looking at night!!

[SimFox 802]

Hue of the windows lights is quite good, but it is, again way oversaturated. Could also be brighter a tad...

But the spread of the light is off - what supposed to be reflected glow from windows on the balconies is in fact often as bright as the windows themselves. I know practically everyone will (is) going oh-ah... but ... I think you would see my point.

The crest lighting is... well all wrong... sorry. It just doesn't do a justice to the modeling.

[deathtopumpkins 43]

Wow, Todd, fantastic! Love the roof... and did I hear mention of this hitting the STEX soon? That'd be a miracle.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

SimFox, ahh, I was waiting for you to roll around. I was thinking of putting some light on the balconies, but I was sure I would do it some backward over-complicated way that would probably be wrong anyway. The crest is something I completely made up, because I, honestly, have no idea how it should be done. I knew it was wacky from the moment I started it. Any pointer would be extremely helpful.

[Odainsaker 2,135]

Wow...how should we light up the crest? I would not know if light should be cast on it, or if the crest should be made up of shiny reflectors, or if perhaps the elements in the crest were lights themselves. The totalitarian in me somehow imagines some stark white spotlights focused on its flat metal surface from somewhere immediately below, perhaps from somewhere just hidden behind the parapet railing in front of the crest and/or to both sides. The Quadriga sculpture above the Brandenburg Gate is the best example I can think of for gloomy lighting sculpture from below, though often some of that lighting comes from nearby buildings and lightpoles.

Now that I think about it...maybe the daytime crest could use some tweaking to get just a hint of gleam along the edges, as though sunlight was glinting off some edge angles along the gold wheat wreath. Hence, not necessarily brighter per se, but still more sharply visible. Maybe, if we are lucky, they will also reflect the nighttime crest spotlights as though there were metal facets being overlit.

But rest assured, all the communist and socialist themed City Journals are going to love this!

[kant01 5]

Great job with the lights! Unfortunately, I know nothing that would help you sort out of any of the lighting issues, but I think it looks pretty darn good

[SimFox 802]

About the crest... few things come to mind

1. if you want to use the lights than you could and I would say should exclude everything else from that light

2. you can do it with self-illuminated materials -the whole thing

3. you can go and re-create the original - do the those neon tubes - probably greatly simplified and apply self-illuminated mats to them. This probably the most tricky since to find the balance between level of detailing and the time spent plus reasonability as to want will actually be seen.

4. experimental one. Maya has posibility in MR to use any geometry as a light source. this isn't the same as to apply to it a self-illuminated material. different calculations are at work and, as a result markably, sometimes REmarkably better results. Since it is basically same MR under the hood some of the dll's could be swap and this functionality brought to MAX. Personally I haven't done it, but there is fair amount of info on the subject on CGtalk.org

[spa 970]

It looks done to me. I personally think the main wall texture is perfectly suited to the building and will probably look just fine in game (not too bright and not too dark). I like too that there is just some hint of cracks and damage to it. The only thing that stands out to me that you might want to think about is the top of the walls. They might be too bright in relation to the rest of the building. I would ease them off a shade or two, but that's a pretty small detail to quibble with. At some point, now that Simfox, Odainsaker, Jason and I have taken an interest, you're going to just have to put your foot down and say "I'm done"

On the night lighting, I don't have anything much to contribute. I use gmax for my models (I don't have max) so the techniques simfox is talking about are completely foreign to me. I just point lights at things and hope for the best It may not be realistic persay, but I personally like the shadowy effect coming out from the commie sign. You might want to rethink though. I would expect, with all the supporting structure behind the commie emblem that it would be lit on only one side so there would be no shadows or reflection going towards the back.

[Glenni 1,444]

Now it looks great!

Oh and.. lil request, mind doing a completely clean, either grey or white version of it?

because this may damn well be Soviet, but we have many similar buildings in Norway too. So a nice clean version would be nice of the decadent western sim nations. XD