Canals/Waterways - Image

[zingboy 0]

Agra, so when you decide to make a change after the tunnel or bridge is already built EXACTLY how you 'd like it, how do you make that change without destroying everything with the levelling tool?

[S.A.C 20]

Well, first of all I cut off the road but remember, don't run your bulldozer on the first tile in front of the tunnel entrance, otherwise the tunnel will be left but the road will end immidately at the entrance without any possibilities to connect it to the infrastructure. I managed to connect it once, but I can't remember how I did it. So, bulldoze FROM or TO the second road tile and you'll be fine.

Second of all I use the terrain tool, smallest size with SHIFT+1, and do a test somewhere on an open spot to determine which part of a tile will be affected by a tool click, (when rotating the city map it can get confusing sometimes ), Once confirmed I start modelling, carefully with a soft hand, tile by tile. You can go really close with the tool, in fact, you can work even on tiles located next to and above a tunnel entrance with no problems what so ever, but that depends on the position of the terrain tool - and the choice of terrain tool. It's always easier to work with the one flattening everything out, but you can use the lowering or the raising tool as well. A little trick; place the terrain tool, (flattening one), somewhere on a sloop and watch how the cirkel kind of disappear into the ground. Click the tool but don't release the click, instead continue with it on the tiles situated next to this first tile and watch how every single one of them forms into a perfect line - something that's useful when developing canals as shown in my images!

However, it cannot be said too often - always work with extreme causion - and don't forget to save, both before starting and whenever you've completed a task regardless of how small it is. Making a mistake makes you avoid a heartattack if you know you saved the game a second earlier

As mentioned before, open a new city map, build a tunnel or a bridge and start testing every possible move the game allows. This will give you strength and power to load your actual city and start some serious terraforming without damaging every building nearby

[n74704 21]

very nice, but some areas of real cities do have steep slopes. and because the game doesn't transition from slope to grade very well, you're saying that it shouldn't be done? sometimes when you build, you don't have the option to make a nice easy slope. there are so many neighborhoods in the foothills here that have very steep slopes. and when they reach an intersection, they curve out rather smoothly, instead of the horrible terracing that the game provides. and there was this one road in Azusa (a city in the foothills) that was so twisted and bumpy that if you were traveling too fast on it at night, you could easily lose your life. so the fact of the matter is, as elevations change, roads have to get a little twisted. the option can't always be to move the land. many many cities would go bankrupt if this was the case. and you can't tunnel everywhere. tunnels as well as bridges are generally a last resort.

some examples -

Lombard street (San Fransico)
some of Hawaii's highway system.
the roads leading into Big Bear (in CA)
and really...
any road on a mountain.

wherever there is a steep grade there is a creative way to overcome it. and that is generally a sloped road. what you say is exactly right. you usually wouldn't see that many slopes in a road, but actually they are all over. and if the game could build a little better ground conforming roads, the terracing effects wouldn't be so drastic.

but also as i look back at it, i couldv've eased the foundations of the rowhouses a little better. and i think that's what i'll do.

what you have is great. but i don't think any city could fund a project like that. with the amount of tunnels and bridges, city developers would've built roads on top of the land. tunnels are million-dollar projects and no city would make that thier first resort. bridges are billion-dollar projects, but it seems to me that you have the proper amount. tunnels - in a real life mayor's mind - are a very very expensive way to travel from point A through an obstacle to point B. so they would be avoided at any cost.

but they do make your city look a whole lot more interesting.

and i'm sure if SC4 had a proper financial system, you would've avoided them as well. SC4 doesn't account for the materials to make the tunnel. the man-labor to build the tunnel. and the true costs of running the tunnel. just like the bridges in SC4 as well. there are no labor costs.

so anyway, in a sense my city is unrealistic and your city is unrealistic. but that's because of the limitations of the game. not everything is accounted for in the game.

can we agree to that?

ok, im done.

[S.A.C 20]

I totally agree with you In fact, I can even add that I find it hard to believe that serious people both now and back in the dawning would have chosen the spot I choosed for my city

Despite the cost I do find these tunnels in my city effective in several ways, especially when considering space!

[+Guest]

Lol this is like a contest between (IMO) the two most beautiful city builders.  One favors realism on that they don't build tons of expensive things, the other just uses looks no matter what the cost.

[fire47251 0]

Maybe there should be a city contest thread so that the best cities can be shown off.

[n74704 21]

what you do Agra, is quite amazing.  the way you nit-pik your city to perfection.  the way i do it, is if you can't build on it, then cover it with a PEG forest!  but now that i look at this.  this dedication, this tweaking everything to your liking and not settling with what the game gives you, it's very cool.  everything that you have done - realistic or not - has been great.

 

and actually, i was going to start a contest.  not between Agra and me, but between anyone who wants to try it.  look for it in the upcoming days.

 

 

the fact is, you brought a new way of thinking into the game.  and that's cool.

 

congrats.

[S.A.C 20]

Thanks But I think it's important to realize that whatever I'm doing with my city - or in it - is something that's not as difficult as it looks! Anyone, and I mean anyone, can do it! All it takes is patience! The only thing I would add as a requirement would be a sense of realism - or at least a good portion of astethics, (is that how it's spelled?)

When I build my city I'd like to imagine I want to live in it myself! I try to feel the souls of all the people driving on the streets or walking down the pedestrians, and by building a city that I know real people would love to live in, then I'm satisfied!

On another note, n74704, I too put down tree parks or similar to hide ugly things or tiles I simply cannot work with - at least for the moment!

Anyway, count me out if there's a contest! I have tons of work to do in my current city and have no intention to start a new one right now! I might participate if I'm allowed to use this though - if there's a contest coming up...

[Smack Sim 0]

Well you don't have to enter the contest Agra, I'm sure someone would enter your pics for you. And fire##### and others, there have been some contests already, and even Trixie awards. Agra will get a Trixie this year, I'm sure of it, but what kind of contest were you thinking of? How's about: 'most breathtaking and eye-catching close-up of a city'. That's how I think of Agra's pics.

And Agra, no matter how many times you say 'and it's not that difficult either!', noone is going to believe you. You are just on another level of 'meticulous' than most people. For SC4, that's a good thing indeed. I don't think most people read the City Journals and think 'Most mayors don't pre-terraform their roadways properly'. For the most part, people just wing it. Please, never visit my region! No, I take that back. How about developing a city for me, pretty please? I've got 108 of them.. If that's not a possibility, how about loading up a small or medium city to Simtropolis? I'd love to plop a city of yours down and work from there. Just some ideas. Keep on brother...

-Smack

P.S. Spelling stuff (though I misspelled meticulous and others).

aesthetics is belonging to the appreciation of beauty
ascetics is about leading a simple life.

sloop is a ship
slope is a gradient

-Smack

[n74704 21]

well actually, it would be a contest of regional proportion.

 

i will pick a region from the LEX.  and then anyone who wants to participate in the contest state your name and download the region.

 

after, you can do whatever you want to the terrain, use any modds you want and cheat however you want.  this would be a contest to test the skills of the people here to build aesthetically pleasing regions.

 

requirements of at least 1 downtown, 1 industry, 1 suburb, and 1 slum.

 

you can use whatever lots you want.  and if there is something you want to do, you can make a lot for it.  the only thing restricting you from a cool looking region is you.

 

this is only testing the citizens here on aesthetics.  i won't ask for a budget or any data maps.  you have total freedom to turn a region into a work of art.  this won't limit you at all.

 

after submission period, mayors have about 6 weeks to turn a lifeless piece of land into something.  the regions are then displayed for about a week and are voted for after.  the one who has the most aesthetically pleasing region will prevail and will gain recognition.

 

____________________________

 

so it won't be a premade contest.  you will actually have to test your skills using the same map as everyone else in the competition.  this will be the way to truly see some great city builders.

 

 

if you are tired of developing your current region, then check this out in the upcoming days.

 

by the way - the map used for the contest will be fairly small.  so you won't have to expend a lot of time doing this.  and it will probably be an island.  and please, no skyscraper forests.

[S.A.C 20]

You're to kind SmackSim but I'll hold on to my believe that this isn't difficult to do https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif border=0>

Not sure about developing a city but I do have the specific city map where my city is resting upon! https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif border=0>  If anyone is interested in this city map and would like to give it a go - just let me know!  It's a large city map btw, and here's an image;

[Ded 30]

I'd love a try at developing it.

 

Its a very unique landscape, but it has some amazing building spots...https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif>

[stp243 8]

how did i miss this thread for so long? that city is absolutely beautiful! I love the use of the tunnels in it. great job and keep up the awesome work!

[eangulus 3]

What map did you use in all those screenies?

[S.A.C 20]

----------------

On 1/17/2004 11:38:30 PM eangulus wrote:

What map did you use in all those screenies?----------------

The one you see right above! Sure, the map doesn't look exactly the same anymore, but the city is growing and developing - thus are the terrain to fit the city's needs

I'll try to arrange for you to get this map i c ded pplz

[simmfx 34]

agra, I too would be very intreseted in obtaining that city map as it is very similiar to another city in the region I am currently working on, except it does not have as much water area. That map could be very useful in helping creating a tutorial city in learning how to deal with sloping angles when building roads and infrastructure! I would be very curious to see what the region greyscale image looks like!

[S.A.C 20]

As mentioned before this particular map, large city map, is from the original San Fransisco region. It's located approx. in the middle of the region, but I can't remember if I changed the config in order to get this middle part large.

Anyway, there isn't a gray scaled map available since this city map was further terraformed before the birth of the actual city - I wanted a more mountainous map!

[simmfx 34]

thanks for the info. I looked at the San Fran map after creating it in sc4 and wasnt too happy with the mountains as they were. ( I only have one map and it is a map of the Bay Area and do not have a per say map of San Fran) I also looked at LA County map which I think had a little more peaks, but still wasnt getting the effect that I was looking for. So, I created an entirely new map with better peaks and more mountaineous coverage by combing pieces of the San Fran map with pieces of the LA County map in psp7.

[stamp 4]

perhaps you could make a backup of your city, the obliterate it, sounds kinda harsh, but it will enable our grasping hand to get ahold of that gorgeous map!

[Minotaur420 2]

Damnit agra, you're gonna make me abandon my current region to start one in hilly location........grrrrrr. I was hoping to stick to my region for a couple more months, but now I might start working on a new one. Oh well, not your fault. I totally know what you mean about seeing uneven roads in other people's cities too. It irks me everytime I see a nice city with ridiculous roads. I always like to conform to the terrain too though. Whereas you like to start with a terrain but then basically tear it up to make everything fit it. So your roads are slightly more angular, and neat, and perfect looking, whereas mine are just smoothed out so that in the real world you could actually drive on them. Of course, I've never tried building with such steep hills, and I'm going to have to now. Excellent work though.

 

(I was just kidding about being angry at you)https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif>

[Rcee 0]

AGRA,

My compliments also for your realism. I like to go back to the first picture and comments in this thread. The waterways with the tree-lined embankment, how do you create them?

I did read your explanation further on, but don't know what lot you used for this particular embankment.

[sandrasim1 2]

Well, minotaur420, you're not the only one to abandon a region. After following this thread and downloading a lot of Pegasus' work my brain has been racing with new ideas. Soon my boss will ask me why I'm always half asleep at work.

Anyway, I have been testing some new ideas based on your work, agra, and I must agree, that the mechanics of solving a problem isn't that difficult. I just think that we all need to have our butts kicked from time to time to start thinking differently and being able to see new ways to overcome obstacles or solving problems.

I tend to stick to the old and tested but this has really been a kick for me. I may not go for the extreme terrain you have chosen,agra,as you stated yourself, but I will definitely try to build my next region in a more spectacular location.

In the meanwhile, keep the images and comments coming. They are an inspiration to us all and I'm using them to show my boss that playing video games is not always about violence and destruction but can also be used to develop creativity and problem solving abilities, some things that are really useful in my daily work. (Hm,I wonder if can use SC4, as an excuse to get a better raise in the upcoming performance review? )

[Smack Sim 0]

Yeah Minotaur and Sandrasim, I know what you mean, but it's not for everyone, this 'super-realism'. It takes bags of patience and can get a bit dreary if not mixed with some good-old zone and forget play (just my perspective). I've found a fairly good balance wherin I expand my region and then go back and re-do one or two areas that seem promising. I've even gone back and obliterated whole large map cities that were in too important an area to be left 'uglified'. I say, 'start large', as large a region as your 'puter can handle. Then back it up. You can always go back and improve your first cities later. Just look at Eddiesville, Terracina, Nairobi, etc.. They kept going, even on 'boring' terrain. It's the mayor, not the landscape, that makes for fun regions!

-Smack

[DarkMatter 21]

Agra, you are truely a city-building genious. I've never seen such a beautiful, well-though, and meticulously built city before. I wish I had more time to comment, but I have to go right now. I'll make some more comments later. Thanks for the great screenshots!

[S.A.C 20]

Again people, many thanks for your comments! I'm very proud about being able to get people to jump further into SimCity 4 and trying out its mechanics more properly. I know far from everything can be achieved, but as stated so many times earlier - with a bit of a patience and a gentle and soft touch with your hand - incredible things can be performed!

I know you want some more images! However, I've been struggling with the downtown area, (which basically is split in three parts thanks to the canal), whereas one of these areas, the north downtown, climbs up the hill towards the PEG waterfall park, and this has been hard work to say the least. Still, I'll try to upload some new images for you tomorrow, showing more of the downtown area

And I have to agree with you Smack Sim; I often go back to developed areas to make changes. Not necessarily because they need these changes, but because I've been involving myself in some major projects in other parts of my city which eventually calls for some improvements in already developed areas. The monorail, to mention one large project, forced me to make some heavy changes in S Downtown in order to give it at least one stop there before continuing to the suburbs. The monorail connects two larger suburbs with the International Airport. Images of this project in S Downtown are available in earlier posts within this topic! And due to the complexity of my city I cannot simply start bulldozing here and there! I need to carefully check the infrastructure so I don't demolish tunnels hidden by buildings, and with each new improvement made in a certain area, the more complex it gets.

Anyway, look for new images to come soon...

[sandrasim1 2]

----------------

On 1/20/2004 6:47:01 PM Smack Sim wrote:

Yeah Minotaur and Sandrasim, I know what you mean, but it's not for everyone, this 'super-realism'. It takes bags of patience and can get a bit dreary if not mixed with some good-old zone and forget play (just my perspective). I've found a fairly good balance wherin I expand my region and then go back and re-do one or two areas that seem promising. I've even gone back and obliterated whole large map cities that were in too important an area to be left 'uglified'. I say, 'start large', as large a region as your 'puter can handle. Then back it up. You can always go back and improve your first cities later. Just look at Eddiesville, Terracina, Nairobi, etc.. They kept going, even on 'boring' terrain. It's the mayor, not the landscape, that makes for fun regions!

-Smack----------------

I don't disagree with you on that. It's true that it's the mayor that creates an appealing region. In fact one of my new cities is developing on an absolutely flat terrain and it has to be flat to suit my plans for the development of that particular city. But what agra has shown us is that it is possible to create something beautiful even in a very challenging terrain with some vision and patience. I am eager to try my hands on something like that as well just to add some new dimension to the game. If the result is half as good as this one I will be more than pleased.

[S.A.C 20]

Well, I know you've been waiting for some more images of my city, so I thought I should show how the hilly area north of the S Downtown has developed into the N Downtown.  To refresh your memories I've decided to show an image of how it looked before I decided to move on with the very tricky project.  As shown it's quite a hilly and somewhat steep terrain with a few delicate problems in the shape of rails and roads!  The only thing actually developed - according to my previous plans were the two res buildings near the edge of the biggest waterfall in the city's waterpark!  The TV-tower was also in place, but that's about it!

Well, commercial demands were - and are high - so initial plans had to be abandoned for other purposes;



And here's the very same area today, the N Downtown area climbing uphill - or downhill if you prefer - towards the canal and S Downtown.  The two res buildings have been demolished to make room for commercial buildings - although the mixture of C and R continues as in S and W Downtown. The steep terrain in some of this area have naturally forced some new tunnels to be constructed in order to allow intercity trains to pass without requiring expensive land - which therefor could be used for further development of the inner city;

 

[S.A.C 20]

The same area but from another angle, (from S to N), showing tunnel works!  Speaking of tunnels, anyone remembering the specific lot I created just to mark tunnels no longer needed but still left un-demolished?  Well, this project required the space so the tunnel had to be demolished anyway.  All that was left is the railroad tunnel with the road-top-station - part of my local city train. Another new thing is that I decided to extend the canal a bit more.  I like to have some open spaces here and there so it's not a clutter of buildings only, and I figured a canal also on top of this mountain would be great. https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif border=0>;

[S.A.C 20]

A close-up of the plaza in N Downtown. It

[S.A.C 20]

Yet another close-up of S Downtown, showing the tunnels for the inter city trains.  It may look a bit odd to have it placed in tunnels apart from this little spot, but due to terrain issues along with lokal development this was necessary! Besides, there