When is it OK to use violence?

[Muck308 55]

The question at hand here is; When, if ever, is it acceptable to use violence? 

The reason I raise this question is due to an incident that occured last night. 

It was shortly after midnight here in Pittsburgh. The Steelers had just won the game against Baltimore. Pittsburghers all over the city were finishing off their pints and heading home. 

My girlfreind works in a sports bar type of restaurant and as you would expect, had to work for the game. She called shortly after OT began to let me know she would be ready to be picked up in about a half an hour.

Now, it should be noted that I remained sober for the evening. I don't drink much anymore and a football game is not  reason enough to go nuts at the bar... at least for me. 

I got in my car and traveled to the bar where my girlfriend works. I entered the parking lot and headed over to one of the parking lanes lined with spots on either side. The parking lot had been full, I assume, but now had only about twenty cars in it. They were parked all over. As I was rounding a parked car I noticed a man and a woman walking up the lane. I saw them but they apparently didn't see me. I came around the parked car at approx. 18mph. IMO a perfectly acceptable speed at midnight in a parking lot. The couple was visibly intoxicated. When I rounded the parked car, I discovered that they had chosen to walk smack in the middle of the lane. I attepted to go around them to their right. At the same time, they shifted to their right. I had no choice but to cut the wheel and pass them on their left, never coming within fifteen feet of them. 

The gentleman, and I use that term lightly, then went out of his way to run over to my car as it passed he and his fiancee (he later informed me this was their relationship)

He then pounded his fists onto my trunk. Naturally I stopped the car. He was at my door in half a second. He then opened MY door and began to shout.

He said, "Hey ***hole, you're driving like a maniac and you almost hit my fiancee!" 

To which I said "Hey, buddy I tried to go around and you darted to the right, so I compensated. Why don't you get out of the driveway?"

He insisted I was driving eratically (sp?) I told him I was doing 20 mph.

He says... 40 miles per hour is way too fast...

I cut him off and said "you're not listening, I was doing 20."

Now, keep in mind my car is still in drive and I am buckled. This jerk has opened my car door after hitting the trunk. He's drunk. He's mad. Infuriated. His fiancee was plaeding with him... "leave him alone, you're being a jerk, let's go home." My girlfriend is at the front door of the place... with her boss. I could see that just fine as they were only about 50 feet away.

Enter the dilemma. I didn't want to make a scene at my girl's place of employment. Nor did I want an unfair fight. This guy was so drunk I could have stood there and let him swing and miss for ten minutes until he passed out.

Now in my younger days, I scrapped all the time. It was just part of growing up. But as this was happening I'm telling myself. This guy is just a jerk. He's over reacting. He might not even remember it tomorrrow. But I couldn't ignore that voice in my head saying. He put his hands on you car, maybe even damaged it( he did BTW, I discovered when I got home) He has insulted your honor and he needs to be taught a lesson. But I refrained. I looked over at my girlfriend, who had been held back by her boss. I thought about how I'm too damn old (well 28) to be fighting in parking lots after midnight. 

I stayed put, but not after I told the guy to put away his beer muscles and go sleep it off. His fiancee was begging him at this point to take her home. 

He retracted, and I went to the front door and scooped my girl. We went home. When I got out of the car I noticed he in fact did dent the top of my trunk... a little. Honestly, the dent will probably pop out on it's own after a few weeks. No biggie.

This brings me to the point. Would it have been OK to beat this guy's ass? I know that it would have been justified, but is taking the high road the best idea? Sure maybe the universe will even things out... but there's no guarantee to that assumption. My girlfriend and my father say I made the right decision to not make a big deal over small potatoes. My friends disagree and say I should have knocked him out. He was bigger than me so there would have been no shame in doing so. I feel I made the right choice, but can't ignore the voice in my head that says "remember that guy... and if you ever see him again, make him pay."

What do you guys think. Is it OK to fight over something stupid just because someone calls you out? Or should you take the high road and let it become nothing more than a drunken fool mouthing off? 

[Joesocwork 4]

Did anybody at all call the police?

[Muck308 55]

nope. Nobody that I was aware of.

[coolotter88 2]

WWTRD?

Punch him, and let him get back up and punch him again. Then scold him.

[masochist 111]

In this case, no.  The guy was drunk, and knocking him out, even if he started it, would've had no good consequences except a boost in your pride...and even then, the guy was drunk--it wouldn't've been all that big of an accomplishment.

On the other hand, your girl's boss was standing there, and he probably would've broken things up anyways (and told you and that guy to go home).  That guy's girl might've called the cops if you'd started fighting him, and then you're in trouble, too.

Naw...leave drunks be.  The most you should do with someone like that (when you're sober) is keep them away from you.  That's it.

Now...is there ever a case where violence is alright?  The schoolteachers say "no"...but the 21 year old college guy says I'm sure there's a couple situations where fisticuffs are the way to go .  This wasn't one of them, though.

[Duke87 1,070]

Meh. I would never have stopped. Just ignore him and keep driving. He can't catch you on foot if he somehow decides he wants to chase you. 

With distance between you a confrontation is avoided completely.

[Joesocwork 4]

The guys sounds dangerous in the condition he was in.  I would have called the authorities if the situation continued to escalate (or I would hope that any of the witnesses would have).  Unless you're suing for compensation for damages to you or your girlfriend, the point shouldn't be to "make him pay" but to make sure that he (and girlfriend) aren't making innocent parties pay for their personal issues.  Having a policeman at the scene (again if things had gotten more serious) would allow for a statement from everyone for the record and hold the guy accountable in a more civil yet serious way.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Muck308

 My girlfriend and my father say I made the right decision to not make a big deal over small potatoes.quote>

I agree with them.  Walking away from a confrontation like that with no physical injury and minimal property damage is a win.  As masochist says, punching him out would've had no good consequences except a boost in your pride. 

He already had his fiancee trying to get him to stop.   A fisticuffs might have involved her which would not have been good.  As you say, getting into it at your girlfriend's place of employment would not have been good.  and, if it had escalated to the point where the police were called, you could have easily been charged with assault.

I believe you definitely made the right choice taking the high road.

[Muck308 55]

I suppose I knew that all along... but encouragement is good company.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[hym 358]

I'm obviously not an authority, so it'd be best to ask someone that is, but from the little bit of reading I've done, it looks like Pennsylvania law would expect you to attempt to retreat if he became belligerent.

[vailo 13]

Well, this guy was drunk. It's one thing to punch an intoxicated guy, and another to punch a sober one. If I were you, then I would have cautiously led him to the bar, then waited for him to get sober. If he was flailing around, then I'd have just called the police. Keep his number (if accessible) and call him in the morning telling him about the antics. If he curses you, I'd say then you have a right to kill him. Now you have appealed to yourself and your girlfriend.

[Hahayoudied 3]

I would stay peaceful and ignore the situation, until the drunk gets really pissed off without a reason, such as trying to drag you out, or beating the crap out of your car. By then, I would call the police.

[GMT 389]

I'd use violence only when me, my family or my close friend are in immidiate danger or already attacked.

prior to that, I'd try to de-escalate the situation by any non-violent means necessary. Best thing is always trying to avoid situations like this.

bad thing is tho that this wont work every time, there's allways enough morons out there that still think to prove they're the cooler, harder, whatever... idiot. in such cases, it's good to keep a cool head, witnesses and, most important, to be able to be the attacked one, cuz then it's obvious that you're use of violence was in self-defence.

unfortunately, I learned this the hard way...

EDIT: as for your situation, I think you did the right thing. he did no big damage as you say and, more important, didn't attack you, so you did just the right thing.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

1.  The guy was drunk and disorderly

1.  He committed assault and battery

You should have called the Police, if only to stop this guy from driving, possibly killing himself and others.

Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.  (War is the ultimate step of diplomacy.)

[PhilsCafe 8]

I think it was the most sensible thing to do not getting into a fight there. He just wasn't worth it... you on the other hand might have ended up with more trouble. And hitting him for attacking your car isn't self defense I believe. But I can understand your friends... it's not satisfying letting that jerk go just like that. But it's the right thing to do.

[Muck308 55]

We've got some level-headed people here at ST. Thanks for responding, all.