!OIL!

[jammy 0]

Hey

Right this is stupid, oil prices are nearing $140 a barrel (£80) and there is talk that we will soon bw running out of oil, there is currently just under 1 trillion barrels of oil left in the world, Saudi Arabia 1/5 of it, but is this true   NO!

There are actually 3 trillion barrels of oil on the planet, that is how much oil has ever been extracted, and guess who has the most oil, the USA, 

In the Green River Region which is in the Colorado-Wyoming-Utah area there are large deposits of Shale Oil. This is basically oil which has not quite formed yet, it is still in the process of changing from sedimentry rock deposits into crude oil.

On top of this find the calculations are wrong, due to the density of this unformed oil you can get an amazing 2 million barrels of crude oil from one acre of this land, there are 16,000 sq miles of this oil shale and as each square mile contains 640sq miles this means . . . . . 

There are 640 qcres in a sq mile; 16,000 sq miles = 10,240,000 acres. 10,250,000 x 2,000,000 barrels per acre = 20,480,000,000,000 (20 trillion barrels!!! !!! !!!)

^^(this information obtained from www.oilcrisis.com/shale/) 

So, in my opinion, we should not have an oil problem we just need to allow the extraction of this, obviously there is a process involved for turning the shale oil into light sweet crude oil but $20 a barrel will be profitable! 

Oh, and by the way, 20 trillion barrels would meet current US demand for oil for .. 2647 years!!

I SEE OIL MANIA !

[ilikehotdogsalot 311]

I know I'm probably going to get smacked for saying this, but in some ways, I think the rise in oil prices is sort of a good thing.

The oil crisis is shedding light how badly we need to start developing new sources of energy, and break use of the same energy source that we have been using for the last century. A few years ago, nobody ever talked about using energy wisely, using their cars less when they can walk or take public transportation, but now people are taking every chance, discovering that 'Hey, this public transport thing really does work for me' and keep using it even after the oil prices begin to decrease. All you see now on television are ads about trying to help out with the energy problem. My small town has even recently gotten a bus line/route pass through here to pick up people, and there are new transportation talks going on all around the country. (That Maglev line between Las Vegas and Anaheim, California sounds neat).

My home country of Brazil has been using sugar-cane based ethanol for about 20 years, it costs half of what gas does, but you do need twice the amount to get the same mileage that gas would provide (equaling out the price), but it's much cleaner, and allows Brazil to stay independent from other countries for energy. When I visited last year, my aunt joked that it's the only thing the government there has done right in the last 30 years. I think it really has helped. When I visited last summer, we only filled up the cars with ethanol

Honda just recently unveiled their new hydrogen fueled car, but there is a catch, even though you don't have to pay for gas, you have to pay 600 dollars a month. Hopefully prices will soon decrease so others can get one, but this is a good sign that things might be changing. It's about time we have returned the favor back to Saudi Arabia and nations who have been giving such high prices for oil when there is much around.

[beebs 129]

How much of that oil is recoverable, though. The Athabasca tar sands up here in Alberta hold an estimated 1.7 trillion barrels of oil, but only about 10% of that is actually economically recoverable.

[jammy 0]

ilikehotdogsalot - yeh, i agree we do need to start ginding alternative fuels, but the global economy is simply noy ready yet, it is not economically viable to use anything other than oil, and by the way ethanol is evil, it takes up farmland which we need as there is not enoigh food for people living in poorer countries, the only option in my opinion is using hydrogen, like you said and OMG $600 per month ... but wait how much does the average person pay on petrol these days a month? lol

beebs - im not sure to be honest but considering its a form of rock you would have to kinda mine it I would guess rather than drilling it hmm :/

[hamsterTK 93]

My only question is that how much does it take to extract this oil, in terms of outside energy, cost, and of course the enviromental impact of digging all of that out of the ground.

But whatever. If the price is right and it becomes economical why not right? Maybe Denver will get some cool new skyscrapers out of it.

[jammy 0]

Ha yeh your right Denver, Salt Lake City and erm... a city in Wyoming might become the Dubai skyline of North America and it is not the most enviromentally friendly of things but... yeh its money lol

In comparison to extraction of crude oil it is extremely cheap, probably around $10 a barrel if refining is made more available for the capicity. so $20 will be profitable

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Moved to Current Events since it's an event currently in progress.

If it can be extracted cheaply and without doing much damage to the environment, sure.

[Goldfish4209 9]

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_LlamaIf it can be extracted cheaply and without doing much damage to the environment, sure.quote>

But this is oil we're talking about. How are we gonna use it without damaging the environment?

At this point in time, we're all suffering from high oil prices, which gives us a good incentive to develop renewable energy. If oil becomes cheap again, we'll just go back to committing long term suicide. Leave it to be and put the cash into solar, wind, etc.

[combot 0]

Id have to agree with the other people here. The oil crisis clearly shows how much we need to find an alternative source of energy. Finding and burning more oil is the easy way out, but there clearly needs to be an alternative.Lets say theoretically that the US decided to begin extracting all that oil shale, and the price of oil dropped significantly. That would be horrible news because as you stated you would be free to burn oil for another 2647 years. Research in alternative forms of energy would all die out because the cost of oil has become so cheap there is no way for the alternatives to compete. The extract of oil shale should be kept banned because it gives people an incentive to find an alternative. If the ban was to be lifted i seriously doubt that people would still be alive for half of that time because of the amount of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases would shoot right back up and spell the end for humanity.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Goldfish4209

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_LlamaIf it can be extracted cheaply and without doing much damage to the environment, sure.quote>

But this is oil we're talking about. How are we gonna use it without damaging the environment?quote>

Too much, he says. Besides, where's the free market? It should surely be able to correct a rise in energy prices, and come up with something ingenious. We've done it before, and we're not really monkeys, are we?

[Jazzmaster 716]

While I agree that we do need alternative fuels for the long term, that is a very long process of converting into (how many people in the world still drive gasoline powered cars vs. hybrids for example...and for that matter, how much longer before nobody does?).  In my opinion, we should slowly transition into the "new age" of giant fans, solar panels and electric cars but at the same time, use what oil we can to drop the gas prices, and put more money in people's pockets to help stimulate the economy.  Because if we go into a depression , there won't be much money left for anything will there?

[Goldfish4209 9]

Originally posted by: YoshiislandIn my opinion, we should slowly transition into the "new age" of giant fans, solar panels and electric cars but at the same time, use what oil we can to drop the gas prices, and put more money in people's pockets to help stimulate the economy.  Because if we go into a depression , there won't be much money left for anything will there?quote>

I agree with you, but I also disagree. Yes, a full transition away from oil will take a looooong time, but dropping oil prices will just stop the development of alternative/renewable/sustainable energy sources due to economics. Oil at the prices it's at right now is absurd, but I don't think we should make an effort to reduce prices that much. Gas at say, $3.50 (it's at 4.15 around here, scale my figures depending on where you live) will give you sticker shock and pain when you fill up, but you'll still go on living and have enough cash to keep the world turning.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_Llama Moved to Current Events since it's an event currently in progress.

If it can be extracted cheaply and without doing much damage to the environment, sure.quote>

 

From what i remeber about why they stoped shale oil production was the process they used to extract the oil from the rock.

It involved heating the rock to force the oil out. However this had the side effect

of expanding the left over rock . So when you remove all shale you have much more

left over rock then you started with . Were do you put the waste?

[Jazzmaster 716]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_Llama Moved to Current Events since it's an event currently in progress.

If it can be extracted cheaply and without doing much damage to the environment, sure.quote>

 

From what i remeber about why they stoped shale oil production was the process they used to extract the oil from the rock.

It involved heating the rock to force the oil out. However this had the side effect

of expanding the left over rock . So when you remove all shale you have much more

left over rock then you started with . Were do you put the waste?

quote>

Is that so...more landfills anyone?  Or even the ocean?

Damn, that is a problem...

[fukuda 351]

and there is talk that we will soon bw running out of oil,quote>

Ah yes, one thing, we are not running out of oil at all, new huge reserves have been discovered in all parts of the world, it's just that.. There's no more easy to well oil in the world, the costs of extraction, production, of oil are rising everyday, as we have to well it from deeper or even more extreme places.

My only question is that how much does it take to extract this oil, in terms of outside energy, cost, and of course the enviromental impact of digging all of that out of the ground.quote>

Yep, that's actually the main problem

Is that so...more landfills anyone?  Or even the ocean?quote>

3rd world countries, as we always do.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_Llama

If it can be extracted cheaply and without doing much damage to the environment, sure.quote>

I read an article about this thing in US News and World Report a couple of years ago and in it was a proposal from the people at Shell, who thus far have probably come up with what the industry has deemed as the most practical way to get it out with the least amount of cost and environmental damage.  The plan needed a nuke plant to provide enough energy to freeze the surrounding ground for something like two years to provide a barrier against oil seepage into the surrounding water table and then heating the oil shale to make the extraction process easier.

Originally posted by: beebs How much of that oil is recoverable, though. The Athabasca tar sands up here in Alberta hold an estimated 1.7 trillion barrels of oil, but only about 10% of that is actually economically recoverable.quote>

Citing the same article, it mentioned that the people at Shell had calculated that the majority of it was economically recoverable once oil hit the $120 per barrel threshold (if I'm remembering the figure correctly).

jammy: You wouldn't mine the stuff in the oil shale.  Because of the nature of the oil shale, extraction would be through a process of heating the ground and pumping out the liquid.

[krbe 193]

The good people at Statoil have estimated that the mining the oil sand (the same as shale?) in Alberta would profitable at USD 40/barrel (estimates are a couple of years old, so let's say 50-60 for good measure). However, the method isn't pretty and certainly not easy on nature. It would however provide a boost with today's prices (which are more driven by fear than actual shortage).

Let's for God's sake hope that Israel and Iran can shut up and mind their own business, while the Iraqis get back to work and the Americans can start drilling in their back yard soon:

Deals with Iraq are set to bring oil giants back

Bush calls for end to ban on offshore oil drilling

EDIT: If this goes through, oil shale production will be allowed too.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Goldfish4209

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_LlamaIf it can be extracted cheaply and without doing much damage to the environment, sure.quote>

But this is oil we're talking about. How are we gonna use it without damaging the environment?

At this point in time, we're all suffering from high oil prices, which gives us a good incentive to develop renewable energy. If oil becomes cheap again, we'll just go back to committing long term suicide. Leave it to be and put the cash into solar, wind, etc.quote>

Yes, we have a good incentive, though we still have no viable solutions.  Mathematically, solar power holds the most promise for alleviating the reliance on non-renewable energy sources.  Problem is, for it to become more widely economically viable, solar cells need to reach 50% efficiency; they've been trying for years and years now and aren't even at 40% yet.  In fact, progress has been so slow on the increased efficiency front that some in the research field have completely scrapped the efficiency idea and opted to look for another method of implementation.

The same story holds true for many of the other fields of renewable energy production; promising potential but getting there is testing the limits of current engineering ability.  So while renewable energy offers an appealing future, it will be decades yet before it is ready for primetime.  Something has to be done in the interim, which means a push back towards relatively cheap oil.  Or, to put it another way, the pendulum swings back and forth, rarely stopping at a sensible midpoint.

[Easy Bakes 253]

We need room temperature super conductors.

that would improve a lot of things  with solar power and electrical delivery in general.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: krbe The good people at Statoil have estimated that the mining the oil sand (the same as shale?) in Alberta would profitable at USD 40/barrel (estimates are a couple of years old, so let's say 50-60 for good measure). However, the method isn't pretty and certainly not easy on nature. It would however provide a boost with today's prices (which are more driven by fear than actual shortage).

Let's for God's sake hope that Israel and Iran can shut up and mind their own business, while the Iraqis get back to work and the Americans can start drilling in their back yard soon:

Deals with Iraq are set to bring oil giants back

Bush calls for end to ban on offshore oil drilling

EDIT: If this goes through, oil shale production will be allowed too.quote>

Just as an FYI, the oil sands in Alberta are not the same as the oil shale in the US.  Sand is, well sand and the oil shales are a soft, rock-like compound.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I don't agree with just going out and finding more oil wells to drill. The longer people stay asleep to the FACT that oil is going to run out then they will not address the problem. Just drilling for more oil is not going to solve the current price situation as it will take years for production to begin and by then prices may have already fallen and the more complicated drilling becomes uneconomical.

The current price of oil is of course painful for many, especially those on lower incomes, but I also believe they have a positive. More people are travelling less, a report by the AA in the UK showed that people have started to use their cars less and some have stopped using them for shorter journeys. Businesses are nnow thinking and using alternative methods of energy generation and cutting down on wasteful packaging to cut the overall weight and thus transport cost of food and goods.

Oil prices are going to be high for a long time and I fail to see the long term advantages for just prowling the world looking for more reserves and milking the planet dry so to speak. It has to come to a point where we need to start to reduce our dependence on the stuff.

[jammy 0]

well right now the world economy cannot survive without oil, we can only think about funding alternative fuel sources when we actually have the money to do it, it may sound strange but we need to use oil to eventually become green.

Another thing that has crossed my mind is wondering why on earth we dont spend the amount of money we spend on alternatie fuels on developing something that can take excess CO2 out of the atmosphere.

Oil, for the last 90 years or so has been the backbone of modern civilisation, when the world markets are booming and inflation is down to a normal rate it is usually because oil is cheap and plentiful. We can consider alternative fuels when oil is cheap, btw since the soaring oil prices this year the Dow jones stock market has fallen from 14000 points to 11000 and the FTSE (UK stock exchange) from 6600 to 5700.

WE NEED OIL it may be a shame when you consider the green side effects but life is life.

[BurroDiablo 222]

Currently, this is all I can hear about the Oil situation -

'We need to stop using Oil or we'll all die!'

'What about the Economy?'

'Oh crap, yeah... now what?'

'I dunno... keep using Oil regardless?'

'Yeah, that works'

Funny when economics takes precedence over the future of our entire species... as you said though, life is life

[mightygoose 92]

it doesnt actually matter how much oil is left, we only really have to worry about the point at which we are using oil faster than we can get it out the ground (see peak oil) that is when prices start rising and never come down.... until we reduce consumption, this is expected to occur within the next 2-7 years, so all you 20 trillion barrels of economically NONviable unfinished oil, can quite ha[pily sit and watch as the world plunges into crisis regardless, to put it another way, if the ocean turned to freshwater, millions would still die of dehydration if you could only feed them with a pipette....

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: jammyAnother thing that has crossed my mind is wondering why on earth we dont spend the amount of money we spend on alternatie fuels on developing something that can take excess CO2 out of the atmosphere. quote>

Because companies invest on things that actually carry money

Originally posted by: jammy

WE NEED OIL it may be a shame when you consider the green side effects but life is life.quote>

We shouldn't be using oil to burn it, oil has tons of different applications that are also crucial into our modern world, burning it to make power or fuel cars is just plain silly

[jammy 0]

Just an update on the true impact the oil crisis is having and true need we have to stop it by pumping more oil, in order for the planet to become richer and able to pay for the energy source changes needed.. Oil rose by 2% in price today to $134 per barrel ... in turn the dow fell 220.40 points to well below the 12,000 mark. its at 11,800 there abouts.

we are driving ourselves to economic disaster PLEASE pump more oil for now.

[nazaguy 0]

Well, on one hand, I want to live in a world which isn't getting as warm as a guy in a jumper in the Sahara desert, but on the other, more oil means more SUV drives! (i find the ride better then smaller cars). But on a more serious note, soon, their isn't going to be more oil to pump. Saudi Arabia isn't going to increase production, not as long as their making money, most of the oil in North America is dried up, or about as healthy to burn as Arsenic is to eat. Im afraid that the only option seems to be is let the economy take a serious dent, and try and go cold turkey on our addiction to oil. Anyways, off the soapbox, with prices the way they are, i might try drilling in my yard...

[jammy 0]

....nazaguy i dont think you read the full forum, the point if this forum is that america DOES have oil, lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lot and lots and lots and lots and lots and barrels and barrels and barrels and bareels and barrels of the stuff lol

and yeh go SUV ! they are so pretty i love SUVs but I would like to see hydrogen powered suvs come on sale

[newy2 0]

I can see where you're coming from jammy, oil needs to stay relatively cheap so we can develop/ implement alternative energy resources (which needs a lot of further development  lol). Oil will however inevitably run out, the higher prices in fuel is an incentive to find new sources of energy, like others said. My bet is that if these hidden oil reserves(which im sure most countries don't declare their actual reserves) were extracted and prices fell back down to they were 10 years ago, you can say good bye to any further development on alternative energy.

If oil prices never reach a certain price barrier, development on alternative energy will never have a priority in the huge "what to do" list.

Thats my guess anyway

[Gridlock 9]

Iraq oil comes online for the west soon , you didnt realy think the war on terror was about terror d .. Apparently there is a lot more oil in iraq than any of us had realised , whatever ..

Oil prices in china raise this weekend , and the oil price hikes are starting to bite in asia . Oil prices have already come down as speculators speculate that the price hikes in china will lower demand .

The surges in recent oil price rises are speculation driven ,big players, oil companies buying back thier own stock ,peak oil increased demand blah blah blah .

Goverments should step in to regulate the cost as it appears the oil companies have abandoned capitalism ,in favour of profiteering. Only evidence ive seen of peak oil is a few graphs , is it fact or is it not ? What are the oil companies doing with the extra $70 a barrel ?, probably just buying oil with it ..

I hope we can find suitable alternative sources of energy then the oil companies can go eat socks.

The days of cheap oil are over , but not for the oil companies they still extract at around a $1 a barrel .

The earth looses around 12 million tonnes a day of mass due to oil extraction x 365 x 100 years ++ ,must be quite a lot lighter than it used to be .

I think its quite exiting ,its like an economic war , which countries can survive the rises ,and which will collapse and how high can the price go.

All of us in developed countries must look at our lifestyles , i actualy drive a little slower now , and try to waste less of everything , not that i now cant afford to waste , but i try to use less , so i dont drive up prices and demand .

Its ok us comming complaining about the cost , to some people in less developed countries its a matter of life and death , maybe 25000 died today from starvation , indirectly caused by oil speculation. I think it sucks beyond belief especialy as the guys making trillions from the price hikes could totaly eliminate world povety and suffering in a weekend.

Unfortunatley the way the world is,and us as individuals , this problem can only get worse. Or better if you own an oil comany ,depends which side of the line your on.

How many of you guys would give up the SUV  if , it meant saving someone s life in a lesser developed country , call me soft but id go for something a lil more economical , just to lower demand enough to lower oil costs , which lowers food costs that means that lil african kid will recieve aid from the UN , as they had to spend less on gas , so had more to spend on food aid , all because you left the SUV at home which lowered demand for oil .