Pope visits the United States

[belfastuniguy 18]

Warm US welcome for Pope Benedict

The president made the unprecedented gesture of greeting the Pope's plane

Pope Benedict XVI has received an unprecedented presidential greeting from George W Bush after arriving for his first official visit to the US.

Mr Bush and his wife Laura were waiting on the tarmac at Andrews Air Force Base when the Pontiff's plane touched down.

During his six-day visit, the head of the Catholic Church will address the UN and lead prayers at Ground Zero.

Before arriving the Pope told reporters on board his plane that he was "deeply ashamed" of sexual abuse by US clergy.

Pope Benedict, who was elected three years ago, vowed to work against a recurrence of the crisis, which tarnished the Church's reputation, saying "we will absolutely exclude paedophiles from the sacred ministry".

In recent years, the US Catholic Church, which has around 65 million followers, has paid $2bn (£1bn) to settle clergy sexual abuse cases.

The BBC's David Willey, who is travelling with the Pope, says that damage limitation over past scandals is not the main purpose of the Pontiff's first trip to the US though.

Our correspondent says he wants to deliver a message of Christian hope to American Catholics and non-Catholics alike, describing his journey as a pilgrimage to a "great people and a great country".

Pilgrimage

Hundreds of spectators had turned out for Pope Benedict's arrival at Andrews Air Force Base, near Washington.

The crowds cheered and clapped as he made his way onto the runway to be met by Mr Bush, his wife Laura and daughter Jenna.

On Wednesday, the Pope will pay a formal call upon Mr Bush at the White House.

It is more important to have good priests than many priests Pope Benedict XVI Pope's tour: Reporter's diary

[Bumdark 3]

Meh...

I've never been too fond of Popes (or religion, for that matter) – simply humans with way too much power (anyone with more control of people than the President of the US himself (or, dare I hope, soon... herself?) is bound, sooner or later, to be tempted by power abuse...

At least John Paul II (that was his name, right?) was respectable, even honorable, doing everything he can to resolve whatever came up peacefully – even heard he'd prevented a full-blown war once (anyone that does that ought to be proclaimed a hero...). Heck, I even liked him (even though, being 12 or so, I only first heard of him on his deathday... ah well...).

But this new guy, Benedict... Heck, he even looks like an evil figure. All he does is try to oppress his following – trying to outlaw gay marriage worldwide (why not outlaw being gay at all while you at it!?), passing new "commandments", boasting all sorts of claims (anyone who publicly denounces Harry Potter as evil ought to be slain by Dante or Van Helsing or something in my opinion  just j/k...),etc... Not quite as fond of him meself.

Ah well, all those religious people that like him, your choice... just keep that caution bulb lit... They always said the Devil would appear as someone good and important until he showed his true colors... (As if...!)

[Mikeaut1 261]

It's pretty cool regardless that the Pope is visiting the country. Here in New York, they are preparing for his visit by closing many streets in Manhattan around the UN. Traffic is going to snarl its way through the city this weekend because of it.

[JakeMD 107]

Wow, the pope. Its all over the news here!

[lucky7 73]

Bumdark is right, the Pope somehow looks like... the Emperor from Star Wars...! I mean, there are some similarities...

However; great, now it's two strange figures in the White House- as if one wasn't enough. Hope that the funky president doesn't take the pope's visit as a support for his weird policy, although it's very likely to justify his actions in the 'name of God'- come on, even god's... um.. right hand is coming for a visit... lol (wonder what the left hand is doing in the meantime ).

Take care everyone,

lucky7

[Meg 368]

The crowd that was there when he got off the airplane sang "Happy Birthday" to him. It was your typical, spontaneous crowd singing, not all that understandable if you didn't know what they were doing.  It seemed to confuse him a bit but I couldn't tell if it was because he couldn't make out what they were saying or didn't know the song.  

This was the first time a US President met a visiting dignitary getting off the plane.  He says it was because the Pope "isn't a political figure".   So why does the Vatican has an embassy here?  I always thought that was a bit odd.

Edit:  But then, I think it's a bit odd we had a colonial style fife and drum corps meeting him at the White House.  and a singer who sang the Protestant version of the "Our Father".  but he smiled at the birthday song this time.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek This was the first time a US President met a visiting dignitary getting off the plane.  He says it was because the Pope "isn't a political figure".   So why does the Vatican has an embassy here?  I always thought that was a bit odd.quote>

Because Bush's remark is partly wrong; the pope is a political figure, he's actually one of the few remaining absolute monarchs on (God's green) earth; apart from unreckognised tribal kingdoms in Africa and Asia I can only think of the king of Bhutan, who has ceeded much of his power to an elected parliament, much o the population's and politicians dismay. The Holy See is a soverign state with diplomatic relations to over 170 countries.

One should also remember that Pope Benedict XVI's stance on most issues are similar to those of John Paul II's—as God's direct representatives on Earth, they're not likely to have that much differences between them; remember that the pope is protected by the Holy Ghost from making mistakes when he declares the dogmatic teaching.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[JanYpe 17]

He's technically a political figure. It's not however his main function: there's nobody who sees him and thinks "hey, there goes the king of the papal state!" He is the pope, spiritual leader, first and the head of his state a distant second. That the pope can involve himself with political situations doesn't mean that he's the same as a regular head of state. So he really isn't a political figure in the conventional sense.

[panthersimcity4 162]

I think he is a political figure - as he is after all, the head of Vatican City, which is a sovereign state.

But I have to admit, Benedict XVI wasn't as bad as I was afraid of. I was expecting a fanatic when he was first elected but when he was speaking he actually sounded kinda.... nice *hides in a corner* 

But he is kind of weird, I mean - prada shoes? Was he dizzy from incense or something?

[Duke87 1,070]

The Pope also paid tribute to the fact that there was no state religion in the US, adding that a secular state where all religions can be welcomed is a positive model from which Europe can learn, our correspondent adds.quote>

Wait, wait.... the head of the Catholic church, historically known for considering all other religions evil and for being the de facto ruling body of much of Europe... just spoke unequivocally in favor of freedom of religion and separation of church and state.

Well, now I've seen everything.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Wait, wait.... the head of the Catholic church, historically known for considering all other religions evil and for being the de facto ruling body of much of Europe... just spoke unequivocally in favor of freedom of religion and separation of church and state.

Well, now I've seen everything.quote>

The most important word in there is 'historically'. The modern Roman Catholic church has moved on somewhat. They haven't dominated European life for a very long time.

[panthersimcity4 162]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

Wait, wait.... the head of the Catholic church, historically known for considering all other religions evil and for being the de facto ruling body of much of Europe... just spoke unequivocally in favor of freedom of religion and separation of church and state.

Well, now I've seen everything.quote>

The most important word in there is 'historically'. The modern Roman Catholic church has moved on somewhat. They haven't dominated European life for a very long time.quote>

Exactly - the Church has changed dramatically since then, to the point some even say it's too liberal and that the current post-Vatican II popes are frauds.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

The Pope's power is derived from the wealth of the Catholic Church, not its membership nowadays. There are now more Muslims than Catholics in the world. Catholicism is losing ground worldwide, to Protestantism in Asia and S America, and Islam in other places .

The Vatican is one of the world's largest if (not the largest) real estate holders, and the commercial properties owned by the Vatican and overseen by the Pope are concentrated in large cities where the land is very valuable. It also has the world's largest and most valuable art collections, etc. 

It's not unusual for a representative of such a financial powerhouse to be well-received by a president of any persuasion.

The word 'pontiff' come from Pontifex Maximus, the title Caesar took as High Priest of the pagan church of Rome. The p and x crossed in the symbol reflect this, he wears a repudiation of Christianity right on the top of his pointy hat. The whole of my opinions on Catholicism are well covered in my other posts, so I'll digress. It's all a dog-and-pony show IMHO.

[Meg 368]

"Thank you, Your Holiness, awesome speech"

Like, way to go, dude.

Guess language really has changed.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

"Thank you, Your Holiness, awesome speech"

Like, way to go, dude.

Guess language really has changed.quote>

 

Seriously he said that? that was some one dubing the voice right?

Hmm Our ads are for cathloc Singles.....

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

"Thank you, Your Holiness, awesome speech"

Like, way to go, dude.

Guess language really has changed.quote>

 

Seriously he said that? that was some one dubing the voice right?

Hmm Our ads are for cathloc Singles.....

quote>

Well,

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23553164-601,00.html

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

"Thank you, Your Holiness, awesome speech"

Like, way to go, dude.

Guess language really has changed.quote>

 

Seriously he said that? that was some one dubing the voice right?

Hmm Our ads are for cathloc Singles.....

quote>

Well,

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23553164-601,00.html

quote>

 

Wow.

I wonder who stays in the papal residence in D.C. when he isnt there.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

I wonder who stays in the papal residence in D.C. when he isnt there.

quote>

It's an embassy.   We have lots of them here.   I think it's up to the individual embassy who does what there since technically, it's foreign soil.

On another note:

Here in Britain, we don't do God

Can some of the Brits here give me a read on this paper and columnist?   I know the papers over there are organized differently than here but I don't know where this one fits in in the scheme of things.

[carson775 10]

Hes a good man.

[KamiKaZantA 1]

And now for something completly different: The buyer of my second computer was blessed by the former pope when the pope visited Sweden several years ago. The buyer was just a baby in a carrige then and his mom was walking around in Vadstena when the popes car stopped at a traffic light or some such. The pope saw the mother and the baby in the carrige and made the sign of the cross. Thats kind of cool imo. Very off-topic I know

[belfastuniguy 18]

@Skigeek.

The article is addressing several issues. Firstly politics in the UK is not influenced by religion, politicians are not openly religious as the people don't want or like it. We do not allow interference by religion in the politics or government of the UK.

Hence why Tony Blair's press secretary said 'We don't do God' when Tony Balir was to speak about his personal faith. It just something we don't want to know, faith is private and should NEVER influence government policies.

The article was noting, and correctly, that America despite being supposedly having separation of church and state, the reality is somewhat different. Politicans in America sometimes depend on their religious population to obtain power and of course religious faith interferes in laws. An example is the human embryo debate and the veto by Bush. That would completely unthinkable here and would be received with an enormous backlash.

The UK is a Christian country and our Head of State is Defender of all Faiths, religion was important in our development and growth but many in British society no longer either accept religious teaching or believe they are important in a modern secular state.

We do, do god in the way people are still religious but we do not tolerate the religion of a politician to impact on their work and we certainly do not approve of religious organisations, churches and leading figures attempting to influence policy and debate.

Also, in answer to you other question, The Times is the best selling daily 'broadsheet' a very high quality paper with a very established reputation. It is the Paper of Record for the United Kingdom.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: manticorefan The Pope's power is derived from the wealth of the Catholic Church, not its membership nowadays. There are now more Muslims than Catholics in the world. Catholicism is losing ground worldwide, to Protestantism in Asia and S America, and Islam in other places .quote>

There's still a lot of Catholics around though. The papacy has always had mighty deep coffers though.

The word 'pontiff' come from Pontifex Maximus, the title Caesar took as High Priest of the pagan church of Rome. The p and x crossed in the symbol reflect this, he wears a repudiation of Christianity right on the top of his pointy hat. The whole of my opinions on Catholicism are well covered in my other posts, so I'll digress. It's all a dog-and-pony show IMHO.quote>

Ah, going to have to go against you there. The office of Pontifex Maximus was in place centuries before Caesar was born.

The letters don't have anything to do with the "Roman religion". They're actually the capital Greek letters Chi (X) and Rho (P) that stand for the Greek spelling of the word Christ (christos), the combination of those two like the pope wears is one of the earliest symbols for Christianity. They first came into the Roman empire, and from there the Catholic church, via the first Roman emperor to become a Christian; Constantine, who used it on his personal standard.

Now, I'm enough of  a geek to tell the whole story of the Battle of the Milvian Bridge off the top of my head, but I'll spare you. Just google "in hoc signo vinces" if you're bored sometime.

The UK is a Christian country and our Head of State is Defender of all Faithsquote>

I thought she was Defender of the Faith, as in her position as titular head of the Church of England?

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy @Skigeek.

The article is addressing several issues. Firstly politics in the UK is not influenced by religion, politicians are not openly religious as the people don't want or like it. We do not allow interference by religion in the politics or government of the UK. quote>

There are some who believe that is what "separation of Church and State" is supposed to mean.   and there are some who think otherwise.

It's interesting that part of the impetus behind the idea of separation of church and state was a rebellion against having an official religion.   and here we are a century and a half later and religion is out of British politics and becoming more an issue in American politics.

Also, in answer to you other question, The Times is the best selling daily 'broadsheet' a very high quality paper with a very established reputation. It is the Paper of Record for the United Kingdom.quote>

Thank you, that is what I was asking.

Having a "Paper of Record" is a whole 'nother issue that is way off topic so I'll skip that for now.

Originally posted by: JanYpe

The UK is a Christian country and our Head of State is Defender of all Faithsquote>

I thought she was Defender of the Faith, as in her position as titular head of the Church of England?quote>

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it used to be "Defender of the Faith" and was recently changed to "Defender of all Faiths".

[krbe 193]

The authoritaive WIkipedia says Defender of the Faith, which also is printed on the coins (Fidei defensor). However, Charles proposed his new title, and Dr Rowan was not happy. I think we can be sure that the title is Defender of the Faith (Fidei defensor).

[Duke87 1,070]

Watching il papa talk, I gotta say.... he reminds me of Dr. Strangelove. I kept half expecting him to start a wrestling match with his hand.

"Sank you for gracious vords uf velcome"

Bush also said some amusing things, as always. I laughed out loud when he mentioned America promoting peace around the world (that's right, we're promoting peace in Iraq). And when he mentioned "religion and reason coexisting", I couldn't help but think "yeah, but it's not a peaceful coexistence. The two are constantly at odds with each other...."

Leave it to a politician to sugarcoat things, eh?

[belfastuniguy 18]

My mistake.

It is Defender of the Faith...yes Charles has said he would change it to Defender of Faith.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

My mistake.

It is Defender of the Faith...yes Charles has said he would change it to Defender of Faith.quote>

ah.  so it hasn't been changed yet but Charles has said he will change it, if he ever gets to be king.

I knew I had heard it somewhere but didn't recall the particulars.

[belfastuniguy 18]

If......which he won't...hopefully

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

If......which he won't...hopefully quote>

I've heard my British friends say that.   It seems they want to keep the monarchy but skip Charles and go straight to William.

Don't know what Charles did to inspire this reaction but I hear it a lot.