China 08'

[yoshikoroyimara 5]

Yep...I wouldn't think Chinatown...that would be awful...

[patriots_1228 51]

I doubt it will make it out of america. I just hope any protests don't cause problems between us and china.

[yoshikoroyimara 5]

San Francisco made the torch path public today...now the entertainment begins!

[skyliner22 16]

Route along Embarcadero, sucks its on a Tuesday, can't see it. Justin Herman Plaza? Its a protesting Mecca!

[Simfan34 11]

Haile Gebreselassie is worried about pollution!

Being half Ethiopian, I can TELL you how hard the mountain air makes running! If HE'S worried, we all should be!

[yoshikoroyimara 5]

skyliner...same here...can't see it...sad...and it's in the right city, too....

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

From BBC News

Scuffles mar Olympic torch relay

Ex-Blue Peter presenter Konnie Huq surrounded by security. Torch grabbed

Fifteen arrests have been made as clashes between pro-Tibet protesters and police marred the London Olympic torch parade on its 31-mile route.

Protests started soon after rower Sir Steve Redgrave began the parade.

Demonstrators tried to snatch the torch from ex-Blue Peter presenter Konnie Huq and a fire extinguisher was let off.

And in a late change to the route, the Chinese ambassador carried the torch through Chinatown, after fears her presence could be a flashpoint.

'Wholly inappropriate'

Gordon Brown has lifted the torch in Downing Street despite coming under pressure to boycott the parade and the Beijing Olympics opening ceremony.

I do hope people recognise that this is actually a celebration of sport and Olympic values Lord Coe In pictures: Olympic Torch relay

Ahead of the procession, Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg branded the prime minister's participati

[GingerBlokey 30]

This is fantastic, I am so happy to see so many Pro-Tibet protests. It is about time this got really in the public view. I will admit the stupid protesters wanting to stop the flame or put it out is wrong. The flame is not what needs to be stopped. The torch is the symbol of the Olympics. It is just China where the protests need to be aimed. If I was in London I would be protesting.

I was very proud to hear Konnie Huq's quote about condeming China and about how the Olympics are a platform for change.

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

Originally posted by: GingerBlokeyI will admit the stupid protesters wanting to stop the flame or put it out is wrong. The flame is not what needs to be stopped. The torch is the symbol of the Olympics.quote>

I disagree. China is using the Torch Relay as a propaganda exercise and by allowing the torch to come to London we are supporting this. People who say that Politics shouldn't come into this are just being stupid, it's not about politics it's about Human rights. What is more important, a sport event or the lives of Chinese and Tibetan people?

Because of the way China is using the Torch, it currently isn't the symbol for the Olympics, but a simple of oppression. China plans to take the torch through Tibet, to show its power over the area, it has become a political symbol.

[GingerBlokey 30]

Originally posted by: TheQuiltedLlama

Originally posted by: GingerBlokeyI will admit the stupid protesters wanting to stop the flame or put it out is wrong. The flame is not what needs to be stopped. The torch is the symbol of the Olympics.quote>

I disagree. China is using the Torch Relay as a propaganda exercise and by allowing the torch to come to London we are supporting this. People who say that Politics shouldn't come into this are just being stupid, it's not about politics it's about Human rights. What is more important, a sport event or the lives of Chinese and Tibetan people?

Because of the way China is using the Torch, it currently isn't the symbol for the Olympics, but a simple of oppression. China plans to take the torch through Tibet, to show its power over the area, it has become a political symbol.quote>

I totally agree that it shouldn't be going anywhere near Tibet. The Olympics should never have been given to China in the first place but now they have they are still an amazing international sporting event no matter where they are held.

The torch has been made into a political symbol when it shouldn't have been.

[Hahayoudied 3]

Also, some food in China have dangerous chemicals in them. One day, a person discovered that some of the chickens in a supermarket has chemicals in them that causes people to be tested positive for steroids when the they never used steroids.

[yoshikoroyimara 5]

hahayoudied...um...nice point...but not in the right place...but it's fine...

yes, the torch has become a symbol of politics...and I hope SF will be more "drastic"...it will be the last chance without heavy aggressive security

[GingerBlokey 30]

Im glad to see more and more European leaders boycotting the opening ceremony. Merkel, Sarkozy and the Polish president are all boycotting the opening ceremony.

[belfastuniguy 18]

The torch has been made into a political symbol when it shouldn't have been.quote>

The torch has always been a political symbol. The torch relay itself was created by Hilter and his murderous Nazi's as the ultimate symbol of their own perceived greatness...lets not all forget that one..

I'm very pleased they had a hard time in London, annoyed the Prime Minister welcomed it, that was to be expected seeing as we host the next game. Though somewhat pleased he did not hold the fame. Also please Konnie Huq expressed her true feelings about China and what it is doing.

[thesimbug 0]

let me make a rather differing opinion on the subject.

its not about moral or immoral.

its not about human right caring or not human right caring.

its not about pro beijing or pro tibet.

i do sympathize the tibetan people n the oppressed chinese.

but, against my idealism on what everything should be too, the world often runs in its indifferent "might is right" own way.

china is strong n keeps getting stronger from year to year.

its economic growth is always double digits in a quarter century, its military expenditure growth is double digits too for the last decades, it already takes over italy n uk in gdp term, its ready to take over germany n japan a few years later, n it will exceed the us n become the no.1 super power in 2040.

to make it more down to earth, its goods invade our markets, forcing many firms to cease running, disemploy millions of workers, n, for us case, takes over japans position as the no.1 state to which us has biggest trade deficit.

it is with those real economic power base does this communist "peoples" republic capture many of its opportunities: from buying taiwan allies, becoming the back stage patrons of north korea, myanmar, nepal n even far away authoritarian african states, n the opportunity to host this universal olympic games too.

we may disturb the symbolic torch relay for a few days, but hows to "disturb" the attractiveness of very cheap but educated n, above all, obedient chinese workers in the eyes of our own capitalists?

i do support your sympathy for the culture "genocided" tibetans.

but we need more in depth talk on the concrete economic stuffs rather than, im sorry if its too frontal, talking about the rather superficial symbolic things like disturbing torch relay.

das sein, perhaps, not only das sollen as i also always idealize. 

[panthersimcity4 162]

China's government is awful. Not only do they oppress the Tibetans and Taiwanese, but also they are indifferent to their own people. Do they even care that some areas are so extremelly polluted that residents are literally covered in dust when they walk outside?

The Chinese government has no consideration for the well-being of any human beings besides themselves and their pro-government fan cult.

[tyhz 0]

Interesting how you are an american yet speak of ordinary chinese being oppressed by the government. I was born in that "awful" country yet don't feel any of that, even after I moved to Canada. You speak of them not caring for any human-being other than themselves, but clearly there are no less that 1billion people in that country with good living. I'm not trying to change the way you feel, but it's interesting how the western world think china is bad while nobody trys to go there and take a good look. 

[tyhz 0]

I wonder if you have ever set foot outside good old america

[belfastuniguy 18]

it will exceed the us n become the no.1 super power in 2040.quote>

China as a super-power is debatable. Several factors are needed to become a superpower and be classed as one, china is far from super-power status. Lets all remember despite the shiny new buildings and middle class an unbelievable amount of people life on basically nothing in china, what farmland it does have has been polluted, turning to desert or being developed upon....as well as countless other things...China is not as close as some seem to think to becoming a super-power.

Interesting how you are an americanquote>

This is an international site, not everyone that posts is America..

but it's interesting how the western world think china is bad while nobody trys to go there and take a good look. quote>

I've been to China and seen all those lovely symbols of modernity and economic progress...fact hundreds of million in China suffer extreme poverty and are subject to the whim of an oppressive, corrupt and murderous regime. China can built however many stadiums and skyscrapers it wants, though would be nice if they tried to clean the rivers and air first, but that is not going to hide their activities and the brutal force they inflict upon their people to keep order.

At least here in the 'western world' we have the right to protest and air our views about China...shame that can not be said for those in China

I wonder if you have ever set foot outside good old americaquote>

Don't live in America and yes I have seen many parts of the world thank you...

[Micah 16]

tyhz, I have personally talked to a Chinese woman who has lived there all her life (she is almost 70) and her name is Ms. Cho. I'm not sure if she has a website or not, but anyway, she is raising awareness all around America, Australia, and other places about the suffering in China. She talks about the religious persecution of religious people in China which is heavily severe. There are underground or hidden churches, synagogues, and temples within China and if they are ever caught, it could literally be the end of their life as they know it. There are millions upon millions of Chinese being persecuted for their beliefs in China. Ms. Cho hosts one of the largest churches in the world at over 1 million people; however, it's mainly broken up factions from here and there. My point though is that China is still Communists. I don't care how many times I will hear the saying "Oh no! It's only Socialist." I will never believe it until the day that the people of China have more power than the government. Even in America, while I consider the government quite corrupt, I still believe the people have more power than the government... we just don't unite and actually do something about it. Just because the nation has capitalism doesn't mean that it's not communist, and that's truly a tough concept to grasp.

[SimRabbit 48]

patriots_1228: im sure it will make it out of the US.

[yoshikoroyimara 5]

tyhz...been there many times...in fact...I have family there...and to say that...

there are no less that 1billion people in that country with good livingquote>

...that statement needs more defining...by what standards do you mean good living...last time I went there...heck...I would say at least 4/10 of the country is suffering...meaning they could be living in a much better environment and society if the government actually "cared" about its people...and by care I mean giving the simple natural liberties such as that in America (and elsewhere)...and encourages it...

tyhz...since you are new...I hope you are not one of those Chinese bloggers that try to convince people that the West is actually the brainwashing factor and China is superb against everyone else...if so...please...stop...

if not...then I welcome you...

[skyliner22 16]

Thyz: How can you say everyone is living all dandy there? Although I haven't been there, living in San Francisco, I am around Chinese people at school, on the streets. There is extreme poverty in China, a sole reason why a lot of them immigrated here. I also watched a documentary about this poor farm girl who went to the city and worked in the factory. The conditions are horrid, they have to work insane hours and get paid very little. In fact this girl didn't get paid enough to go back to her family in the New Year, which a lot of companies do to keep the workers. Why else does that nation have the highest migration? Where people from the distant provinces work in major cities throughout the year and return home with the money they earned? China is booming and building skyscrapers and such but still, a large majority are poor and live in unsafe areas with little to no human rights. Oh yeah i forgot to mention, the girl was 15.

[Haljackey 17,302]

Thinking about it as a whole, I don't care, I want to see the opening Ceremonies!

But, let me defend my statement before everyone tackles me:

This is the time for the athletes to shine. As the march along the Stadium, this is a time to see all the countries in the world. As athletes from all (most) nations represent their country, it shows that the Olympic Games are considered a major promoter of global identity. Sometimes we forget that there are more than 200 states in the world, and each of them have a chance, every four years, to represent themselves among all other states during the Opening Ceremonies. Seeing athletes from all nations in the centre after is just awe-inspiring!

The host country is responsible for making all this happen. It is a privilege to host the Olympic Games and thus there should be no action to intervene with it, either being the host country or other states.

-Boycotting my favorite part of the Olympics will not make me very happy. Seeing that torch lit in the spirit of international unity is just something so cool it only happens during the Olympics.

That's all I have to say for now, about it. We will see "What happens next" regarding this issue.

---

Oh, and by the way, does anyone know if they Olympics are being brodcasted in High-Definition? Or is China's CCTV the only one who is able to film the games?

Best,

-Haljackey

[tyhz 0]

wow, so many replies, wasn't expecting that. I'm glad that you guy said something, they are all are good opinions and facts, widened my vision a bit. Anyway, to the point, first, I am not trying to convince anyone, personally, I'm really just waiting and hoping that the chinese government don't do something stupid. Secondly, I think we should consider its sizable population. being the country with the most population in the world could make it difficult for any government to prevent poverty and even if one do reduce poverty in the mojority of the population it would take time. It is also notable that the people have better living condition and quality than before, it's far from perfect but it's still improving. As for the pollution problem, it's one of the things sacrficed for the economical reform, inexcusable, the same goes for freedom of speech. 

[Callbat 8]

quadruple post, nice

[tyhz 0]

plz excuse the quad posts, I had problems with my cable

[belfastuniguy 18]

Paris protests mar Olympic relay

Hundreds of protesters were on Paris's streets Paris protests

French security officials have been forced to extinguish the Olympic torch three times as it passes through Paris ahead of the Beijing Games in August.

Officials extinguished and put the torch on a bus for safety reasons, in the face of anti-China protests.

The mayor of Paris cancelled a ceremony due to mark the torch relay after activists hung a Tibetan flag from the city hall.

Police have made several arrests as protesters try to disrupt the relay.

The French protests came after 37 people were arrested during pro-Tibet protests which disrupted Sunday's relay in London.

Earlier on Monday, the president of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), Jacques Rogge, expressed concern over unrest in Tibet and the torch protests.

'Olympic values'

Security in Paris has been extremely tight, with some 3,000 police on duty, riding motorcycles, jogging or on skates.

About 500 protesters were reported to be involved in the demonstrations, mainly near the Eiffel Tower.

See the Paris route

Several hundred demonstrators waving banners gathered on the Trocadero esplanade where the relay began at 1235 (1035 GMT).

The International Olympic Committee has expressed its serious concern and calls for a rapid peaceful resolution in Tibet

[harlem123 0]

Originally posted by: tyhz Interesting how you are an american yet speak of ordinary chinese being oppressed by the government. I was born in that "awful" country yet don't feel any of that, even after I moved to Canada. You speak of them not caring for any human-being other than themselves, but clearly there are no less that 1billion people in that country with good living. I'm not trying to change the way you feel, but it's interesting how the western world think china is bad while nobody trys to go there and take a good look. quote>

1. Here are not just Americans i think it is a international forumwith many Europeans many Asians and many Americans.

2. I know what iam talking about. My dad lived 9 Month in China to work there. He saw how China handles with poor people and how people were degredad just because they tell him the truth.

3. It is a shame that China didn`t show the West what is going on in Tibet. They behave like Nazi-Germany before the 1936 Olympics.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: haljackey

This is the time for the athletes to shine. As the march along the Stadium, this is a time to see all the countries in the world. As athletes from all (most) nations represent their country, it shows that the Olympic Games are considered a major promoter of global identity. Sometimes we forget that there are more than 200 states in the world, and each of them have a chance, every four years, to represent themselves among all other states during the Opening Ceremonies. Seeing athletes from all nations in the centre after is just awe-inspiring!quote>

I like the Olympics because it is the only time we see people from that many nations get together and do something peacefully.

Do I think the Games should be in China?  No, I think China's human rights record is too dismal for that honor.  It is, however, getting world attention on the problems over there so maybe it will be a good thing in the long run.

Do I support freedom for people over there?  Sure.  I'd love to see everyone have the freedoms I have; I think it would make the world a calmer place.

Do I think boycotting the Games is a good idea?  No, we did that in the 80s, with the Soviet Union boycotting the games in the USA and the USA boycotting the Games in the Soviet Union.  All that accomplished was putting an asterisk next to the names of the medal winners, who were athletes who just wanted to do what they spent years training to do.   Why use a gymnast or a pole vaulter as a political pawn?

I hope the Games go on peacefully.  I hope people stop and listen to what the protesters are saying.