American 2008 Election

[belfastuniguy 18]

Any candidate unwilling to use this type of information to avoid appearing too negative doesn't have the backbone or guts to be president IMHO.quote>

That would seem to be Obama. I know he is preaching 'Change' and all that rubbish but do not see him delivering those changes and thus his supporters and the public in general with become further disenfranchised with the election system and politics.

I don't think delegate counts really matter anymore, in fact I haven't put any importance of them for weeks and weeks now. It will carry on for months and it will be decided by super delegates, although I find that deeply undemocratic to be honest.

Just have to wait and see as the Obama-Clinton trains continues on its collision course while McCain just sits back and loves every minute of it.

[DanWalker8 3]

I don't know that infighting will result in a republican victory in the general election. A lot of people i see interviewed say they think both democratic candidates are great.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I don't know that infighting will result in a republican victory in the general election. A lot of people i see interviewed say they think both democratic candidates are great.quote>

Yeah until the war and disappointment happens once one is selected. We just have to wait and see how each camps supporters respond to the final result.

[baystatebill 2]

I don't know about to many people saying that both democrats are great candidates. I have had many lifelong democrats right here in liberal Massachusetts tell me they are disappointed in both candidates. They are very upset that after 8 years of Bush that now is the Democrats chance and they have Hillary and Barrack. Incase your not from Massachusetts, let me tell you about our Governor, Deval Patrick, the first Democrat Governor here in the Commonwealth in 16 years. He ran a campaign of promising change, always touting he is not a Beacon Hill cronie and it's time for change. His motto was "Together We Can". Well leading up to the general election, many polls on the major issues showed that anywhere from 65 to 85% of people sided with the Republican Candidate Kerry Healy on the issues. But everyone bought into the pep rally speechs about change and beleieving in the future. Well Deval won in a landslide. His first 6 months in office were a disaster. He promised the increase spending and lower taxes (always a good promise to make). When he took office there was a $1billion surplus. Deval instantly restored all the spending cuts that Romney had instituted, then Deval had to borrow $750million from the state's rainy day fund, now the state is facing a $2billion deficit. Deval proposed casion gambling. The bill went to the floor of the house and senate, on the most important day in Deval's tenure, Deval wasn't in Boston. He was in New York signing a $1.8 million book deal to write his biography. I mention this only because Deval and Barrack Obama are a lot a like. Obama supported Patrick during his gubernatorial race and vice versa. Barrack Obama has lifted Deval's campaign speeches. If you study the Massachusetts Governor's race from 2006 you will see our Presidential Race. An inexperienced man who talks about promise and to believe, promises stuff he knows he can't come through on. Both have are great speakers and motivator's but one is and one will be horrible leaders.

[Zelgadis 638]

I used to like Hillary. I was even thinking I was likely to vote for her. In the end I chose John Edwards, but anyway...

My opinion of Hillary compared with 6 months ago has slowly but steadily declined from respect -> confusion -> irritation -> dislike -> loathing.

Obama can't "close the deal" because he refuses to go as far out into the muck as Hillary has. Oh, he's thrown a share of mud. Every politician does. But much of what Hillary has been doing is way to Republican-esque for my comfort. She once decried the "politics of personal destruction" and she was right to do so. But... um, what's that she's doing now?

I've finally reached a point where if in the unlikely event that Hillary wins the nomination, I'm just not going to vote. I can't, in good conscience, vote for a so-called lesser of two evils. If I don't like either candidate, I won't vote for either candidate. I did the same thing in the last Kentucky senatorial election, where the choices were ® Jim Bunning and (D) Daniel Mongiardo. Well, I thought they were both scum, and even though I thought Mongiardo was less scummy, I just left that part of the ballot blank.

I'm very rapidly losing interest in politics. Being young and idealistic was one thing, but now that I'm older, I can see that no, my vote really doesn't matter. It's a world where a frightening number of people vote the way the right wing and left wing pundits tell them to vote. Frighteningly few people actually research candidates, attempt to find out the truth behind the rhetoric, and make an informed choice.

Then, in the end, even if a good candidate actually wins, it doesn't matter. You still end up in a situation like here in Toronto, where overpaid, surly, rude, incompetent public transportation union employees can hold a city hostage by shutting down service so that they can be even more ridiculously overpaid.

I've had enough.

ISF

[belfastuniguy 18]

Then, in the end, even if a good candidate actually wins, it doesn't matter. You still end up in a situation like here in Toronto, where overpaid, surly, rude, incompetent public transportation union employees can hold a city hostage by shutting down service so that they can be even more ridiculously overpaid. quote>

Don't even start me on unions and union bosses

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy ...Don't even start me on unions and union bossesquote>

 

Me either. One only has to look at the damage they've done to the auto industry, the airlines, and education to understand.

It's said that conservatives want to live in the 1950s, but liberals want to work there because of the unchallenged stranglehold the unions had on labor back then.

Other news...

I have always said Obama would not beat McCain, and the Dems are starting to realize this. A recent poll [link] says HC would do better against him. I'm just loving this battle, and I still believe neither one will beat McCain.  

[Micah 16]

I have always said Obama would not beat McCain, and the Dems are starting to realize this. A recent poll [link] says HC would do better against him. I'm just loving this battle, and I still believe neither one will beat McCain. quote>

Haha... I personally think Clinton has a better chance to win over McCain. A lot of people in the middle like some of the things she's proposing such as green jobs and, until McCain comes out with an economic plan, Clinton will appear to be stronger than McCain there too.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[yoder7652 21]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa I found this article to be entirely appropriate:

Linkie

I think that McCain's chances of winning are becoming more realistic everyday and the Democrats will shoot themselves in the foot.  As is known, I am an Obama supporter and I do not like Hillary Clinton very much, at all.  Besides, I do not support dynastic politics... I do not want to see Bush > Clinton > Bush >  Clinton.  I support whole-heartedly the idea of Change and a breath of fresh air to clean out these musty old men (and women).

Anyhow, if Hillary gets the nomination, as much as it grates against my bones, I just may not vote this time.  I certainly will not vote for McCain, but I do not know, now, if I can stomach a Hillary presidency.

Barbarossaquote>

 

Ditto...

[anik 14]

Well, I still like Obama/

He's much more honest,

and all over the world, hes the main guy whos getting peopleinterested, and I think he can change america's reputation aroung the globe, in addition to changing the economin policies.

Obama 08

[Easy Bakes 253]

Obama seems to be trying to distance himself The Good Rev Wright

Probably a bit too late though

Link

[Meg 368]

Yeah, I think it's a bit too late.  Wright is either an idiot or supports Clinton or McCain.  I'm going with idiot.

Oddly, I'm starting to see anti-McCain commercials.   The basic gist of them is health care needs to be fixed and he doesn't know how.   At the end, where it usually says "I'm so-and-so and I endorsed this ad", it says it's from a group for health care reform, not a particular candidate.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Im thinking the Rev Wright   is just playing his moment in the sun to the fullest.

mabey with urging from the likes of Farrakhan.

Shame realy to undercut the first  African-American to realy have a chance to win.

[Shingure 56]

To be perfectly honest Iam slightly dissapointed that Hillary won our state. But then again remember. The governer endorsed her an the mayor of the largest major city endorsed her. ( Even though alot of Philadelphians voted Obama. ) I don't understand how she is still in this race. And to be honest it is the gang up and beat up thing that they are doing to Obama. They bring all the dirt on him. Hillary is a known , mispeaker ( if you can call it that , I call it an untruth or otherwords lying ) and she loves to act a certain way when she isn't getting her way. ( When she cried in New Hampshire when clearly Obama was in the lead there in a matter of a day there was a last minute switch in voting. Hillary has some good plans , But I think Obama is one of the more modest and candiates who knows what he is doing , he knows damage control , and best of all he is honest. The way politics works in the country unfortunately calls for alot of lying. I wish that politicians could just own up and be a man or woman about the dirt they have swept up under the rug. Sooner or later if they don't get out with it there will be a huge lump in the floor and the lies will catch up with them at once. Also here's another thing. If Hillary is aware or her surroundings and has experience ( Being the wife of the president doesnt qualify for expirience , I call it just being there and doing some minimal diplomacy work. ) Then her husband and Miss Moni would have never occured had she been aware of the situation and was aware of her situation. If she can't manage her house how can she manage 315 million people. The answer is she isn't of requirement. If she did more and acted like a vice president during Bill's presidency I can buy her story about expirience.

Once again , You may have heard this you may have not. But this country is slowly allowing presidencies to remain in the families. We are slowly sinking into a monarchy of somekind. And that is what we wanted to escape as a country when it was first founded. There should be a rule that if the father runs for president there must be a two generational wait until someone from that direct family will run. Because the Cycle has been Bush - Clinton - Bush - if we have Hilary then we have a possible pattern. In short give it to someone else who is experienced , has went overseas , and has talked with other nations on relations , because that's where America is sucking right now.

To add, McCain is the oldest canidate ever to run. I don't like him and his demeanor and he follows failure just like an idiot does. McCain needs to take a look around. Smell the coffee of everyday workers and people who have jobs , houses , mortgages , bills , and children and do for them instead of the oil pigs who sit in Washington counting their money. They won't be satisfied until America will end up like a couple European nations at one time or another. Money will have no value and the money that is used to buy the firewood becomes the firewood. There is no way I would vote for McCain even if my life was staked on it. I would not do it. Because I think that it will drag us down further into the grave that we have dug for ourselves with this war , this economy , and all in all the political system it'self. 

And this is coming from Someone who is turning 15 on the 28th . Yes Iam politically opinionated and young and I think it is a good thing , Don't you agree.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I don't understand how she is still in this race. And to be honest it is the gang up and beat up thing that they are doing to Obamaquote>

Oh please..

Its politics, Obama is a big boy and can easily defend himself. She is also winning populous states, he is not. Hence she is still in the race

and best of all he is honestquote>

I have yet and will unlikely every meet or see a truly honest politician...........they don't exist, sorry to burst the bubble.

But this country is slowly allowing presidencies to remain in the families. We are slowly sinking into a monarchy of somekindquote>

Monarchy is somewhat of a total exaggeration to be honest. If the Presidents (current batch excluded) were good and did America proud then I see no problem with 'dynastic' Presidents. Americans should focus on what they do or intend to do and not on the surname.

There should be a rule that if the father runs for president there must be a two generational wait until someone from that direct family will runquote>

I believe that would be unconstitutional........heaven forbid the government try to interfere with the constitution.

I call it just being there and doing some minimal diplomacy workquote>

Well that's an understatement and its certainly more that what Obama has achieved.

Then her husband and Miss Moniquote>

Relevance to her being President is what???

If she can't manage her house how can she manage 315 million people.quote>

That's a bit of a cheap shot and somewhat unnecessary, people do not have control over another, what Bill did was purely his own mistake and no blame should be placed with Hillary. As I said cheap remark.

[Shingure 56]

In defense.

1. Obama is a politician , We live in America where politicians lie. Okay so what. But he seems alot more honest than Hilary does based off of actions. Hilary has misspoken a couple times so far. And each time she has been caught red handed.

2. Hillary has done some minimal work in terms of foriegn relations. Sure she has went to Bosnia during their little scuffle ( And misspoke about it) and a couple other trips. But Obama is alittle more focused in rebuilding the country internally. Remember, Those who cannot help themselves cannot help others. If we can't help America out of this rut in which he have gotten ourselves into how can we help other countries. We have to begin to pay off our debt which is growing increasingly by the second.Because at some point the country will be so deep into debt that every child will be born in the red financially. No matter what kind of family they are born into .

3. That cheap shot remark to make a point. Of course Bill's mistake. But the original question was " Is Hillary aware of her surroundings and what is going on in the world? " If she doesn't then maybe it means that she would not be very observant of the world we live in. To put it bluntly , Almost every country dislikes us , and we live in time where there are terrorist who will blow up part of a city to make a point. If she isn't observant then we can see another 9/11 happening in the near future with more dire consequences because she isn't taking a good long look.

[Micah 16]

But this country is slowly allowing presidencies to remain in the families. We are slowly sinking into a monarchy of somekindquote>

So did we become a monarchy when John Quincy Adams or Theodore Roosevelt took office?

[Shingure 56]

No... But that's what we want to avoid as a country running from that. I mean what happens if another Bush wants to run for the presidency in 2012 or 2016. Then what will you think? I think that after a while if a constant pattern of people from the same family is going into the presidency like we have seen in the past 20 years then what will the public think, More than likely they will think that America is keeping presidencies in a circle of families , hence saying it's time for someone else's turn.

[Frankie_Grove 32]

Denying people the right to presidency based on their family/past family president is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If they've done what every other candidate has done, why deny them the right? Plenty of presidents come out of the blue (think, Jimmy Carter). If another family member gets elected on down the line, then obviously their predecessor did something right.

[Shingure 56]

I can admit that with Clinton though. Bill did the country well while he was in office. But he got himself into some trouble behind closed doors a couple times. Iam not sure about Bush though. What did George Bush the First do ? Iam not sure. I was a year short of existence when he was out of office.

|| Iam so sorry for double posting like this. Ugh Maybe I will wait before answering so that way I dont double post ||

[Micah 16]

You didn't double post. Double posting is when you send a message right after your last message without anyone else's in between.

George Senior won on the success of Reagon.

[Shingure 56]

Okay and how did his son win?

[hym 358]

Because Al Gore lost the Electoral College, thus, he wasn't able to secure the Presidency.

[JakeMD 107]

Note:

The below may or may not be true, this is a rumor I have heard over this weekend.  If this is true, this is very serious.

Barok Obama cannot be president due to the simple fact that he was not borne in this country.  He was borne in the Panama area.  So according to the US constitution, that prevents him from becoming a US president doesn't it?

[hym 358]

If Wiki is to be believe, he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii.

And as Easy Bakes said, there is a thread for this already.

[AdmiralCrunch 11]

Wasn't he born in Honolulu?

[Easy Bakes 253]

There is a Campaign 2008 thread already opened and Stickied

[Meg 368]

It's McCain that was born in the Panama Canal Zone. 

And I've merged this into the existing thread.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: hym If Wiki is to be believe, he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii.quote>

And before anyone asks, yes, Hawaii would have already been a state by the time he was born.

The pressing question, though, is whether being born in a US territory counts or whether it needs to be one of the 50 (or however many there were when you were born) states. The Panama Canal Zone never was a state, though it was a US territory from 1903 to 1979, meaning McCain would have been born on what was at the time US soil even if it isn't anymore.

Somehow I'd think that if he wins in November (if not before then), there will no doubt be an attempt to challenge of his eligibility in court.... though that may just be the cynic in me talking.