Cockatoo's BAT Thread

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Sorry, I've gotta do this one again with better night-lights...

[bixel 1,223]

Oohhh!!!! Looks good!

[art128 4,618]

excellent lights !!

[paulvmontfort 616]

I like your new version, I wonder what's next...

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Hey, is anyone seriously thinking about doing the Standard Charted Bank Building? If not I think I'll give it a go. I’ve got some wicked ideas I want to try out for night-lighting.

I'm gonna try and use the dimensions from PvM's HSBC tower .SC4Model (I assume it's scaled perfectly) as a point of reference (it’s directly adjacent to this thing), but I can't find any decent dimensioning / plans for the actual building. Can anybody help? I need a floor plan and / or side elevation of the thing with some basic dimensions so I can get a feel for the shape and size of it. Thanks if you can.

[bixel 1,223]

I tried getting some specs on this building myself. And failed... You are just going to have to it by photo reference only.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Okay then, no big deal.

Using some rough dimensions I got from Google Maps for the lot size, and those on Emporis.com for the height, and then comparing those to PvM's HSBC tower (which were spot on), I've managed to come up with this… with the help of a huge amount of reference photo's I managed to find.

Accurately scaled for real life, but not for Sim City.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. The whole idea behind this was that I could plop it next to the HSBC tower and it'd all look nice. Paulvmontfort didn't scale the HSBC tower up to 133% on the Z axis before rendering, so what do I do. Keep it at the real life height and have it look stubby in SC4 or scale it up and have it look right, but not fit with the HSBC tower???

Here’s a quick and dirty render of the stubby version – what I’ve got so far.

[paulvmontfort 616]

Lol, wI had my eyes on this myself as well, but I think it'll be released much earlier if you make it . By the way, scale all my buildings to real life scale, not 133%

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Fair enough, I wanted it to be in proportion, but still fit in with one of my fav BAT's of all time. I think I'll take your advice and leave it at its original height.

BTW, you do know about this don’t you... from BAT MegaFAQ...

How Tall Should I Model my Floor Heights?

        Maxis used a variety of scales on their buildings.  Some of the R§ houses are the same size as the cars in the street.  Other Maxis buildings have a more realistic scale.

        If you model your building using realistic dimensions, your building will look too short in the game, because SimCity 4's view is a parallel projection, and will distort the appearance of your building.  Vertically scaling your model by 133% will overcome this squashing effect.

       Modeling with realistic dimensions, and then vertically scaling by 133% (or modeling with the scaled up dimensions as you go along) will make your buildings visually proportional.  It will also keep your building's scale consistent with other buildings you do. 

       But ultimately your buildings will be used in the game.  Another way to judge your building's scale is to do a test export, and plop your building next to similar buildings.  For example, if you are making a R§ house, you might choose to under scale your building, so that it fits in with its environment of other under scaled R§ houses.

quote>

[bixel 1,223]

hrmm..cant remember if its taller or not. I do see that the bottom two extruded parts are not centered tho. Height wise PVM's Building looks good to me, his window height was never a problem. But your windows are going to look a lot different than his building. So do whatever makes it look good.

[ilikehotdogsalot 308]

I think the dimensions look really good This is looking like a great one.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Bix, those parts aren't centered, and I'm fairly happy with the height at the moment, still heaps of work to do though... better get to it.

[tankmank 853]

Should look amazing when done

[bixel 1,223]

oh! They are not? Lol my brain is so used to symmetry.

[HONG KONG 74]

The model work is very realistic so far. The base, on the south side longer than the tower itself, you have not yet attached.

The model still fits on a 2x4 Lot?  .. would be nice.. Here is a picture of the north entrance.

[bixel 1,223]

lol srry, i messed up my rig but my only backup is in the attach saved here by Simtropolis - im just using this to download it lol.

Scanline Day.zip

[Cockatoo 2,256]

HK, thanks for that photo, really helps - that was probably the one place I couldn’t find.

Anyway, here's some progress - yes, I know there are too many floors in the base section, They’ll be covered when I eventually model the actual base.

Bixel, lol, dude you really need to get some sorta backup system going.

[bixel 1,223]

Wow looks good!!! Consider peaching up the texture just a tiny bit and maybe adding some extra specular. Maybe even a little raytracing.

[jacqulina 162]

very nice work

[tankmank 853]

lookig good

[Ferrariguy1000 43]

Very nice. I can't wait till nightlighting (despite the fact that I don't do night mode)

[SimFox 802]

the only criticism would be the fact that in your model vertical space between the windows is smaller than the hight of the window, while in real thing it is greater. Also it is equal to the width of the "gap" between the two columns of windows on the central core (well if you can call it that... And, yeah, it could do with some redening... I mean both granite cladding and the windows themselves. In this case we are dealing with heavily metalized glass so it would be pretty much a mirror on the shadow side. To fake it you can try to assign small amount of self illumination to the window material. If you use Max 2008 + them make sure the material doesn't illuminate scene, and if you use older version make it to be Architectural material (not arch&Design) and set self-illumination to RAW-defuse.

Shape-wise... this is just a guess (from vaguer memories), I think the building is symmetrical relative to the east-west axis.

[czakof 0]

Hello!

Finde ich:

Hong Kong Asia BAT Team.dat file

24.05 Mb

Ich bin Ungarn. Leider spreche ich nicht englisch.

Mein MSN adresse: czakof@invitel.hu

18-20pm MSN

Danke: Czako

[Cockatoo 2,256]

C'mon guys, you know I'm still stuck using Gmax. I don't have ray-tracing or any of that stuff Simfox is talking about.

Simfox, I know the windows aren't in proportion to the tower. Because I've decided to leave the building at its original height dimensions - so it will be in proportion with PvM's tower (not scaling up by 133% for Sim City), if the windows are in proportion to the actual real life , they look far too thin. I experimented with it, but eventually came to the conclusion that it looked better to move them closer together - compensating for the tower's stubby appearance. But on the textures, yeah, I've still got heaps to get done on that front.

<rant>

On a (not so) side note, I'm starting to get seriously fed up with the Gmax software. My renders suck, and there's not one thing I can do about it - it's so damn buggy.

Quite often I'm getting textures showing up in the viewport, and then not appearing in a render at all (or being totally warped out of shape or have sharp black lines appearing through them). The crashes, so many operations lead to instant crashes - I don't know why it can't just give me an error message or something, and the worst part of all is that the damn thing has a bad save ratio of about 1 in 50.

On top of all of that, the software itself is about 7 y.o. (I think), so I can't keep up with the majority of the BAT community, which is now using Max (so I never know what Simfox or ANYBODY is talking about) AND everything takes HOURS even DAYS to export. The modestly sized Majestic Hotel took 14hrs to complete its export.

This model is already giving me serious grief in terms of how its render is turning out. Yes, admittedly, I could be behind some of these constant problems that I'm having with Gmax, but a well written program would make these stupid issues a lot harder to create in the first place!!

The Standard Chartered Bank Building will be the last project I'm going to undertake with Gmax. I've just had enough of it. On Bixel's recommendation, I'm trying to upgrade to 3ds Max 7, I'm almost there, but then there are issues that come with that too. (not anything to do with the program itself I hope!! *fingers crossed*) I may then, have to close this show down for a while (after the SCBB) until I can get some better software to work with.

</rant>

[art128 4,618]

Wow -- That looks really nice ! I will place this tower for sure in my new CBD.

[SimFox 802]

I see (scaling issue)... well you can still use self illumination on your window. It is a feature totally supported by GMAX. On a positive note you don't need to pay attention to other thing I've said about it (self-illumination) just turn it on and stick there same or a bit lighten version of the bitmap you use in defuse slot.

I believe most of texture issues are in fact mapping once. just can try using UVW map unwrap on it. It would be very beneficial on the buildings with so may angles. and still quite simple since it is all planar.

But upgrading to MAX is a good idea. If at all possible try to get yourself MAX9 - first one with new age Mental Ray. It is a really, really big thing.

[nihonkaranws 88]

SimFox, I heard that you managed to get BAT4Max to work on Max9.... with a lot of hard work. I use Max7, but I am thinking of upgrading (although I probably wont'). If Cockatoo goes for max9, will BAT4Max work?

[SimFox 802]

People... I think there is a lot confusion here created by sloppy use of words. There Max versions up to 9 eg Max 4, Max5, Max6, Max7 (even Max7,5) Max8, Max9. Then Autodesk decided to switch to different system and Max2008 (or Max2K8) has been introduced, after that in desire to created 2 different products out of one then have came up with Max2009(Max2K9) and Max2009Design. This April this double-headed lineup will continue with Max2010 and Max2010 Design.

Current export script is compatible with Mental Ray upto and including Max2008. Next version(s) of Max saw introduction of new version of MentalRay - vers3.6 which has a lot of great features that could be handy in BAT. Unfortunately framing that is essential in terms of keeping Max LODS framing identical with one in GMAX Bat doesn't work with MentalRay 3.6. This is probably a bug of sorts since I see NO reason why it would be by design. but nobody will really "fix" MentalRay to make it compatible with old script. So...

I have an idea of how to rework the entire process of export in such a way as to be independent of such an issue . It would offer some enchantments in terms of effects that could be applied at render time (for instance of using more hen one rendering engine simultaneously line say Mental Ray and Vue), but it is a lot of work and I haven't found a buddy to do it with... :-( Plus it may cut compatibility with older versions...

[Cockatoo 2,256]

I have some good news, I've finally installed Max.

Version 7, with BAT4Max v2.5 at the moment.

Simfox, Maybe I can upgrade to a more recent version in the future, but for now, I just want to get the hang of the basics this program.

The installation went well, no problems as far as I can tell. I've created a few nice preview renders, although I've yet to try an export an .SC4Model file (next challenge.)

At the moment, I'm just going through a few tutorials and trying to teach myself how to use some of the features that weren't in Gmax (mainly the massively different material editor). Ray-traced reflections are fantastic, can't wait to get some of those going in my BAT's.

Scanline with the default lighting rig doesn't do much for me though, I'm defiantly leaning more toward MentalRay.

I have one question though, what lighting rig should I be using? Now that I'm in Max, I can use Jason's rig? I tried, it didn't work, apparently Max 7 is not compatible with it.

What then, is the best lighting rig available for Max 7... (Bixel what do you use?) ...and how can I find how to use it properly.

Anyway, I'm going to convert some of my Gmax stuff to Max and see what sort of results I can get. I'll post again soon.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Here are the instructions to recreate the rig.  Open the normal rig, delete the lights (keep the cameras), and do the following:

1.  Make a directional light.  This represents the sun.

2.  Select the rotate tool.  At the bottom of the screen there are X Y and Z boxes.  Use X=46.091  Y=0 Z=-53.  Move the light so that it is generally pointing at the origin of the scene, but is so far away that it won't ever get cut off by the building.

3.  Select the light, and in the modifier tab, turn shadows on by checking the "on" box.  Change the shadow type to "Ray Traced Shadows"

4.  In the Intensity/Color/Attenuation rollout, change the color to R=255 G=234 B=170

5.  In the directional Parameters rollout, change the Hotspot/Beam to something like 450.

6.  Go to Create>Lights>Standard Lights>Skylight and create a skylight.

7.  Change the multiplier to .85, and the sky color to R=184 G=187 B=236

8.  Save the rig as a new file.

9.  Use this rig instead of my rig, and continue with the instructions in the tutorial as normal.

Hopefully this works out for you.  I'm glad to see you gotten 3ds Max, I'm looking forward to your new BATs.