The Trans-Texas Corridor

[jmjselect 0]

I'm against a north american union. this would be one step to that.

[Odainsaker 2,134]

NAFTA has been something of a long-term mixed-bag. However, for the San Antonio area, which has always stood to gain the most, it has been a boon helping to attract industries and pulling the city out of its former days of "poorest big city in the U.S." and into a new economic building boom, openning opportunities the city likely would not have otherwise. Indeed, the San Antonio-Austin corridor has for the past several years been among the top, and indeed THE top, fastest growing urban corridors in the United States.

Anyone who has sat in the truck-filled traffic jams of I-35 between San Antonio and Austin has seen the results of growth firsthand. You have the long haul truck freight moving to and/or through the urban areas between Mexico and destinations north, the intercity commuter traffic between San Antonio-New Braunfels-San Marcos-Austin, and the intracity traffic within those individual localities. The urban sections are gridlocked bottlenecks, and the rural sections are too underdeveloped and lack capacity.  The TTC suggests bypassing through traffic around and outside the urban areas, however, I am not so sure how well such a bypass route would serve the intercity and intracity traffic, for although they are parellel, there are still distances of whole counties in between. The size of the right-of-ways strikes me as grandiose megaplanning without restraint, for which TXDOT is notorious (they once suggested levelling half of downtown Austin in order to make I-35 a quadruple deck highway with access flyovers reaching onto Congress Avenue 8-blocks away). Runaway planning with taxpayer money indeed!  Also, I almost worry that too much traffic bypassing the urban areas would in turn also bypass the economic potential.

On the other hand, anyone familiar with I-35 knows that development and expansion along it has always been chaos between all the competing and overlapping local governmental authorities, and the distances are so long and urban land complexities so entangling that the costs get skyrocket, that bypassing might make sense. The costs from the length alone keeps undermining the schemes, be they standard commuter rail or high-speed rail, so much so that we are still haggling after 20+years over a viable rail scheme connecting San Antonio to Austin, let along Austin to Dallas-Ft. Worth.

If realized, this could be the Texas version of the Tokaido, the powerhouse economic spine of the state and oneday even the nation, for be it sooner or later we will realize Latin and South America are the world's biggest untapped potential markets, with Mexico at the crux. The geography will make development and the economic ties inevitable. Those of us in San Antonio knows Toyota built its latest plant here with an eye to soon selling trucks south; seize the opportunities! But I don't trust Perry, who was elected without a majority, to pull such a vast scheme off. The scale and attitude would please Pharaoh.  Like his predecessor and patron Bush, Perry is the "decider" who makes closed-door unilateral decisions on his own without input (even Texas Republicans upsettingly get left out of the process), and for which the rest of us in surprise must dig through the backpages to figure how those decisions were made. The result is that nobody trusts how the process has been vetted, how the plan is being railroaded through the legislature and forced onto local communities without input or oversight, how the financing is being done without effective watchdogs leaving us locked into completely skewed contracts pouring billions into a single company's hands while tying the hands of local planners for 50 years. This all comes ontop of the ongoing controversy where existing intracity highways are going to be converted to tolls, while development on nearby alternative commuter options which could draw away paying motorists are banned under threat of fines against us levied by the single toll company to protect its profit monopoly. Frozen monopoly planning channelling billions into private hands without real infrastructural improvement has been seen for what it is, and the Mighty Bureaucratic Monster TXDOT has overplayed its hand again, sabotaging themselves by stirring-up such widespread across-the-boards public animosity. Few trust them, their motives, or their plans, so it is no wonder we don't trust their current execution.

[blahdy 21]

I've been following this project since 2003.

First of all, much of the cost is private sector investment (this may most likely turn into world's largest BOT franchise or similar (Build->Operate->Transfer)), with little burden on taxpayers to pay for it, so that's a good start there.

Anyhow, other than the fact that a foreign company is being awarded contract instead of an American company, I fully support this project. It also includes a bullet train proposal, which is quite frankly, badly needed in the U.S. in my opinion as transportation and mass-transit advocate (it is true however in US, air traffic is far more advanced and utilized than that of rail transit).

I hope they break the ground soon and build it.

[Creathir 3]

blahdy:

I agree...

High speed rail is LACKING big time in the US. This could be the start to a new system...

Cintra-Zachery is half US owned, so I am okay with that. (If it was 100% foreign owned I would be against this project)

The TTC is an awesome project, which hopefully will happen VERY soon. The idea of traveling 90mpg and not a single tractor trailer near me is quite exciting.

- Creathir

[stereohype 0]

From what I've seen, this project has been ditched. And thank God! From a social look - the TTC would devastate whole communities. IH 35 already slices over a dozen of cities - all with a less-favorable, low income "East Side". When deciding which side to put this super highway on, lawmakers just looked at where their houses were and got a big fat marker and the plans where done. Texas is a state with some of the worst thought out highway systems. A loop around Austin ain't a bad idea. Ever been stuck in IH 35 or MoPac rush hour? And living in San Marcos, the city of a thousand trains - I noticed a larger need for rail transportation. The only problem with traffic in Texas is that Texans love their autos too much. Cities like Austin and San Antonio need a more logical commuter transit system. Better (and more) buses and light rail would empty IH 35 out. Another highway connecting the west and maybe anther IH 35 lane through Austin - and the thoughts of a super highway would all be done away with.

[DFire870 2]

Originally posted by: Albatross Domain Here all of this money that is being spent on more freeways , should be used on upgrading the freeways they currently have now... why not spend the money on other infrastructure, that will allow just trucks and freight transport, sort of like HOV lanes for trucks only. instead of having something that will look like a massive river of asphault from space... largely empty.quote>

That's the problem... It's impossible to widen I-35 in many places, especially in Austin. For example, in downtown Austin they did not plan the freeway correctly, so when I-35 was initially built, it was only 4 lanes. A few years later they had to add an elevated section that was also 4 lanes to ease the congestion. And since NAFTA wasn't formed until the early 90's, the planners of I-35 had no idea it would be used so much by freight traffic. Austin already has a temporary solution to the problem of too much freight traffic. SH 130 is being built west of Austin, and starts from just north of Austin in Georgetown, and will eventually continue down past the airport and reconnect to I-35 south of Austin. It will be a toll road, but it's 6 lanes total.

I'm kinda stuck on the TTC issue. On one hand, we desperately need to get the freight trucks off of I-35 (anyone who's driven in a sea of semis during rush hour knows what I mean). On the other hand, I'm not sure having this huge area for all these types of transportation is needed. I-35 between Austin and Dallas is already being widened from 4 to 6 lanes (the split just south of DFW is widening to 8 lanes I believe). And the US is one of the only developed countries that doesn't having a bullet train system. So what? The US takes up so much land that it wouldn't be economically feasible.

And stereohype, there was an awesome plan for a great freeway system in Austin. Click here to view the planned map. There was supposed to be an actual loop around Austin, and more freeways. However, in the early 90's environmentalists stopped this expansion, and now look at what's happened.

[egelder22 0]

I would have to agree with DFire870. Texas doesn't need a huge superhighway that bypasses every major city and destroys so much valuable land. They just need to upgrade the system they already have. Widen the interstates, build some commuter rail and mass transit lines so that at least you could get some of the cars off the road. This whole TTC scheme is not a method to improve transit between cities, it's just a way to bring in more cheaply made goods from Mexico further into the U.S. It's ultimately going to hurt American businesses, destroy farmland, and become a vast empty roadway with no way on or off except in major cities. I don't see a positive.

[Creathir 3]

stereohype:

Believe it or not, Austin is not the center of the world. The TTC project is not just addressing congestion in Austin, it is addressing it from one border to another. As trade grows, more and more traffic is going to be created. 35 is already PACKED... I just drove from Dallas to SA last night. 10:30 at night on a Sunday, and it is PACKED. Trucks, cars, and more trucks. Are we going to keep widening 35? Do we continue to route the main N/S Interstate for the entire state through 3 major downtowns, each of them having TONS of congestion?

The problem is not that we love our autos too much, the problem is we do not live in urban settigns. And when we do, they are SPREAD OUT. Look at the land area of a city like Austin or San Antonio. Then look at it compared to the population. The density is just not there for mass transit projects to work. Why on earth would I walk 3 miles to ride a train for 6, to walk 3 miles to my desination. Just will not work.

As far as the land value issue others are mentioning, they do not just TAKE the land. They pay for that land and pay quite well. Farmer brown can turn around and take that money to buy MORE land or can invest in a new small business or buy a new tractor.

It is a roadway, being built to eleviate a situation which is getting worse every day. Ever sat in traffic for 3 hours (in the middle of NO WHERE) due to an accident being caused by too much traffic? Had there been less traffic, what would have been a simple accident turned into something MUCH larger due to the domino effect of high speed and high density of cars. This roadway is getting more and more dangerous, and those that think nothing needs to be done have never driven on it. Think of rush hour in your town, MOVING, but still crowded, at 80-85 mph, at all hours of the day. This is Interstate 35 in the state of Texas.

The TTC is a wonderful project, and I can only hope it will be brought to Texas.

 - Creathir

[Haljackey 17,302]

Well In my eyes, this "TTC" is like another ERIE CANAL. Apparently, New York State had to go it alone to build the longest canal in the world (at the time). The Canal's completion is what made New York City the major port city it is today. With being a major port city, New York City then evolved into one of the world's 3 major global cities. Without the Erie Canal, New York City may have been a much different place today.

This is exactly what the "TTC" can do for Texas. If you guys go through with it, it could add prosperity to that geographic region. Sure land acquisition and demolition is needed, just as it was needed to build the Erie Canal.

Thats my opinion on this matter. Only time will tell if this idea will become reality.

[Micah 16]

You know, there is another solution...

Some parts of the TTC could go underground. If it were to do that, it would at least save some businesses, homes, and farmland. And since it's not the government paying for it, taxpayers wouldn't be hurt.

[Fresh Prince of Wmbg 44]

The governor going to destroy economy the of the state by giving a FORIEGN company the power to create a toll booth with limited on and off ramps along a major interstate that already has many businesses.Why don't they just add a upper level to 35 where trucks and high speed rail can run . The did something like that to in San Antonio where 1-10 merges along 1-35. Perry's a idiot.

[PvtDieOLot 0]

Both the TTC and the I-69 corridor are need in this state. Not necessarily in their current planned form but in some form. The I-69 corridor will be the first time that Houston will be connected to Mexico with an expressway. An alt. to I-35 is needed desperately to relieve the horrible congestion between Dallas/Fort Worth and San Antonio. What blows my mind is that within a few years the I-45 corridor between Houston and Dallas will need to expand also. For those of you that don't know Houston and Dallas are the 4th and 8th largest cities in the U.S. respectively.

[Creathir 3]

Originally posted by: Fresh Prince of Wmbg The governor going to destroy economy the of the state by giving a FORIEGN company the power to create a toll booth with limited on and off ramps along a major interstate that already has many businesses.Why don't they just add a upper level to 35 where trucks and high speed rail can run . The did something like that to in San Antonio where 1-10 merges along 1-35. Perry's a idiot.quote>

 

As stated before, Cintra-Zachery is half owned by a San Antonio based company. Half of the companies in this country are owned by foreign share holders...

What is new?

 - Creathir

[hawkpride147 1]

this also addresses issues in DFW. I-35W (through Fort Worth) and I-35E (through Dallas) are incredibly crowded. I-35W takes most of the freight traffic because it is a much shorter route than I-35E. the TTC35 plan that most in the metroplex support is actually the most recent proposal that creates an outer loop around the area with all the spoke freeways connecting to it. there is also a second TTC plan called the TTC69 which extends I-69 into Texas and down to mexico. there is not as much opposition to that plan.

[Haljackey 17,302]

Originally posted by: hawkpride147 there is also a second TTC plan called the TTC69 which extends I-69 into Texas and down to mexico. there is not as much opposition to that plan.quote>

Isn't that part of the NAFTA superhighway?

If yes,

Then that route would also include other lines like rail, truck lanes etc up to Highway 100 and TC-1 in Winnipeg... But I-69 heads northeast into Michigan, eventually transferring to Highway 402 in Sarnia, Ontario. Whats going on here?

If no,

Never mind I guess.

[M-SIL 2]

I remember this issue about about 2 years ago and hated the idea. Why build a ridiculously large highway next to an exist one and they could simply just utilize other existing highways. My solution is to either widen I-35 with alternate routes going around cities like Austin or to finish expand I-69 from Indiana to Texas. This is how the route of I-69 post to look like on the map below:

 

 

 

[ExiL3 10]

I would say, invest in rail, perhaps the german fast moving monorail modified to carry goods would be an idea? It is much faster than cars, thats for sure! (and better for the environment!)

take care,

[DFire870 2]

M-SIL, that's a good map. Personally, I hope if they finish I-69 they use the entire route in blue, because in recent years Corpus Christi has really gone down in appeal, and if that new freeway were to be built along that route, it would boost Corpus Christi's appeal and increase tourism.

They've already created an alternate route to go around Austin, which is SH 130. What you're not getting, though, is that they can't widen I-35 within most of the Austin area. There's simply not enough room. Heck, a portion of I-35 that goes through Austin is still the original roadway (the lower deck). It's still only 2 lanes, and it goes up and down like a roller coaster.

Exil3, it's already been proven that rail isn't that economically feasible. Even if it was fast moving rail, the distance between the three major cities of Texas is huge. There was a high-speed rail plan made back in the 80's, but was scrapped because no one would use it.

[stereohype 0]

a few responses to the Austin factor...

DFire870 - hopefully the loop is still being considered, in some smoke-filled room, somewhere...

Creathir - I know Austin is not the center of the World... It's the Center of the Universe! haha, naw but, you sound Texan... admit it, the center of texas should be the center of the the Universe! ...

oh, and I spoke to farmer Brown the other day, he's a-runnin' out of land. what with all them hollywood types coming over...

Micah - tunnels are fun, but not through any limestone aquifers...

And to many - IH 35 through Austin has been expanded, not between Oltorf and Airport (where it's congested), but beyond those two exits the traffic ain't as bad as it was...

well, this conversation is a lively one. I think the best solution to the problem is that everyone everywhere needs to have a little patience. But who am I kiddin'... this is America. ~ sigh ~

lemme know when Maxis comes out with SimUtopia. Then better solutions to all of these problems can reached by the collaborative minds of gammers like us. Right now, I think I'll turn on my SC3000 with recreation of Austin and send a swarm of UFOs into town.

cheers!

[Creathir 3]

stereohype:

I am Texan (transplant since I was 8, but Texan nonetheless)

Land is becoming harder to find... in the urban centers. Beyond that, we have PLENTY of land, in fact, more than almost any other state in the union... (Alaska still has us beat... until we invade New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Arkansas... then we'll be larger once again...

You Austinites baffle me... almost like the citizens of Houston or Dallas...

San Antonio is the center of the Universe... you know that...

- Creathir

[Micah 16]

Micah - tunnels are fun, but not through any limestone aquifers... quote>

Not all of Texas has limestone aquifers. I'm simply talking about building it where there aren't aquifers.

Creathir - I know Austin is not the center of the World... It's the Center of the Universe! haha, naw but, you sound Texan... admit it, the center of texas should be the center of the the Universe! ...

oh, and I spoke to farmer Brown the other day, he's a-runnin' out of land. what with all them hollywood types coming over... quote>

LOL... You know what the sad thing is? I live in Houston and yet nobody can tell (unless I tell them) that I'm Texan.

Edit: But annnyway. I've noticed how many people keep talking about I-35. Since the TTC will not have that many on-ramps and off-ramps, what makes anyone think this will help traffic? I'm just curious because it seems like this road will literally be for mainly Mexican goods to go upward, not to relieve traffic. Sure, relieving traffic congestion may be a product of the TTC, but I don't think it's the main objective.

[hamsterTK 93]

My opinion:

improving transport=GOOD

the current specific TTC plan as proposed by Perry=BAD

I really think what is being planned was not done democratically enough and is being shoved down our throats...I think what needs to happen is that the TTC plan needs to be shelved, and any money tucked away already needs to be saved for whatever new plan is come up with.

Anyways, here is my personal idea if I ran the state:

(well not my idea per se.... actually it would just be a mashup of projects currently proposed brought under one big piece of funding legislation)

To expand on my idea:

Blue would be upgrading existing highways to interstate level.

Pieces:

- Upgrade US 59  to Interstate 69

-Build a leg down to the valley by upgrading 77

-Upgrade 290 and 6 into a Interstate-quality road forming a alternate to I-45 as well as better connecting Bryan-College Station to Dallas and Waco

Green would be  state or private enterprise to build a completely new highway parralel to Interstate 35 with significant amount of virgin ROW. pretty much it would follow the plan that is already out for the 35 bypass

Red would be a moderately fast regional rail system linking the cities and towns along I-35 between Austin and San Antonio which is probably the longest built-up stretch of interstate in the entire state. Having rail would take cars off the road or at least give a good alternative. This plan is already in the works, the main task would be to fund it and talk about building dedicated rail and not sharing the tracks with freight.

[stereohype 0]

Creathir: I was born and raised in Austin - that's the only reason I'm concerned for it's growth, but I'm not movin' back. So, guess I shouldn't lose too much sleep for that whole mess. And yes, San Antonio is a great city - excellent culture, dirty river. My girlfriend lives there and soon I'll be there for grad school. So, I'll agree with you about the center of the universe. However, about the Republic of Texas... When we succeed, we should take over New Mexico and Louisiana - but - let's leave Arkansas and Oklahoma.

I'm only joking, people.

[mikeyb66 30]

Just read through most of this topic and to be honest cant really comment on the proposal as I dont know the area or the probelms etc. What I did find interesting is the huge amount of opposition to giving the contract to a foreign company (even though it is part US owned). Sometimes it helps to have an outside perspective on things, they can give you insight into things you could have missed. Its possible to overlook things that seem so obvious once pointed out. So maybe its a good thing.

[hawkpride147 1]

Originally posted by: hamsterTK My opinion:

improving transport=GOOD

the current specific TTC plan as proposed by Perry=BAD

I really think what is being planned was not done democratically enough and is being shoved down our throats...I think what needs to happen is that the TTC plan needs to be shelved, and any money tucked away already needs to be saved for whatever new plan is come up with.

Anyways, here is my personal idea if I ran the state:

(well not my idea per se.... actually it would just be a mashup of projects currently proposed brought under one big piece of funding legislation)

To expand on my idea:

Blue would be upgrading existing highways to interstate level.

Pieces:

- Upgrade US 59  to Interstate 69

-Build a leg down to the valley by upgrading 77

-Upgrade 290 and 6 into a Interstate-quality road forming a alternate to I-45 as well as better connecting Bryan-College Station to Dallas and Waco

Green would be  state or private enterprise to build a completely new highway parralel to Interstate 35 with significant amount of virgin ROW. pretty much it would follow the plan that is already out for the 35 bypass

Red would be a moderately fast regional rail system linking the cities and towns along I-35 between Austin and San Antonio which is probably the longest built-up stretch of interstate in the entire state. Having rail would take cars off the road or at least give a good alternative. This plan is already in the works, the main task would be to fund it and talk about building dedicated rail and not sharing the tracks with freight.quote>

i like your idea with the exception of the cutoff from houston to laredo...not enough traffic moves from I-10 to I-35 for that to be necessary...especially if houston connected to brownsville via the new I-69. i personally would also look at extending I-27 from where it ends in lubbock down to the rio grande valley and also possible north out of amarillo.

[bartonn 0]

Doesn't seem realistic to me. It would only benifit Mexico, and burden Texas to debt.

[Micah 16]

...burden Texas to debt.quote>

I'm not sure how. This is being paid for by a private company, not the government. The taxpayers won't be effected at all, except for maybe loosing land depending where you live.

[Odainsaker 2,134]

It's not as easy as all being magically paid for by a private company. They will offer a portion of the cost in their bid, but loans and public bonds will still remain the predominant form of financing, cleverly setup in the most complexly nebulous of public financing schemes. This is all on the projection that our share of the collected tolls and contracted concessions will bring enough revenue to slowly pay it all back off in the future, which it probably will. In the meantime, that bond money is not being used for other purposes (ie education), they still must be paid off, and guess who is ultimately going to be paying all those tolls permanently. Yes, TXDOT biggest criticism is that this and the rest of its broader tolling schemes is really less about mega transportation, and all about raking in mega revenue, which has a lot of contractors salivating at the prospect of hundreds of billions in returns, and which explains why this project is ordered forward at all costs and without delay.

Uh, just as we should have quit complaining and bought up oil stocks when Bush/Cheney were elected, we should buy up Cintra-Zachry stocks now if we can! The contracts are already made, the legislature sidelined, and construction underway. A sure winner in a few years; all aborad.  Oh, water rights too...a growing area with a new transit access and State-concessioned surrounding land development...grab the water rights!

As the hub of the new NAFTA Tokaido between the U.S. and mother Mexico, San Antonio will reclaim its rightful historic role as the Empire's true Capital.  Viva Nuevo Aztlán!  Go Spurs Go!

[Micah 16]

Yeah, but with the private company involved, the chances of the Texan government going bankrupt are very slim. That was my point.

[stereohype 0]

Think about what this network basically does - takes goods through Texas, not into Texas. The Government will be fine, the state's economy may suffer the most.

blahg, I still don't like it... nobody will convince me otherwise.