sim city new approach and suggestion list

[gstommylee 6]

i been thinking lately about SCS and it has a possibly of being better than sc4 and have the true name of Sim city.   TM has to start development somewhere. Now we may not like the new approach.  Lets wait and find out what TM has to show us. We maybe surprised that it might look better than we could have pictured.  Lets stop with the you killed sim city and whats not over here and over at TM boards.

TM really wants to get to know us and the sim city community and they are giving us a voice in how the final product of SCS will look like.  Now lets accept that honor and start perhaps giving ideas to them.  If we don't specifically state what we want and how we want it to look like, how would TM know what we want they could get confused and possible decide it wouldn't look good or it wouldn't work at all.

Lets start anew here and welcome TM to the Sim City Community and start giving out suggestions on what we want scs to look like.

[Poetic 0]

- BAT (Building Architect Tool - way to make customizable buildings) is a must. To make it more reasonable, since they have so little time, I'd recommend it coming with an expansion pack or released sometime after the initial product release. It could even turn them a profit.

- Other than that I mainly just want to suggestion multiple road types (not just four lane) and railroads. They have to lower the elevation of the roads... if the pics are an indication of the final result, the roads seem to be too elevated.

[Mulefisk 15]

I have a suggestion to how we should make suggestions. If someone else has posted a suggestion that you agree with, just copy it instead of writing it again in your own words. (Unless you have something very important to add obviously.) This will make it easier for tilted mill to understand what we want. So, to make an example:

Originally posted by: Poetic - BAT (Building Architect Tool - way to make customizable buildings) is a must. To make it more reasonable, since they have so little time, I'd recommend it coming with an expansion pack or released sometime after the initial product release. It could even turn them a profit.quote>

[gstommylee 6]

I was under the impression that the roads are flat but what gives the effect of it are the sidewalks.

[MrVegetable 2]

A selection of eras to work through, each with it's own building style, like a 1900's era would have buildings styled like in the 1900's, the 1950's would have building styles from then, and so on, with decor to match. We could update our city from there as time goes on.

An option to zone large areas for building if we don't mind what buildings go there, and the ability to plop the buildings too for detail should we want it. Also, be able to zone of areas we want to resevre for later so that we don't accidently build in them.

Improved transportation systems, meaning that pathfinding is important, as well as including more efficient transportation systems such as trams, and able to place El train track above roads so it follows the same path (if El Train tracks are included).

Seaports, Airports and beaches, all zonable (seaports and Airports available for ploppable should we want more detail, beaches are rather cruddy plopped as SC4 proved)

That's all I can think of. Are we going to put all this into one huge list like I mentioned in chat?

[BurroDiablo 222]

I agree, It has the possibility of surpassing all our expectations... all I want from them is the knowledge that Sim City Societies, besides being stripped of most things that make Sim City, won't be unbearably childish and rediculously easy. I also hope they haven't dumbed down the transport options either, I remember Citylife didn't have Railways. I hope Factories still need to ship frieght and commerce still demand Airports, I hope they haven't dropped Buses, Subways and anything else that seemed to make the game 'hard'... if they get rid of all additional transport stuff, they might as well drop the title 'Sim City' because that is NOT Sim City in my eyes.

[Speth 0]

a lot of people complain about the grid-based building in sc4 and would like to see it removed in any sequel. if you are going to change this in societies, please leave the option available to toggle the grid back on so you can build exact "digital" road systems where they are needed and look better than "analog" systems.

[ianpaschal 77]

I'd like it to have everything SC4 had so I know I'll be getting as much for my money when I buy SCS as I did when I bough SC4 Deluxe

[Raxter 1]

    For a long time I've desired playability with the city. Obviously the point of the game is to build cities to your heart's desire and run them as you would in reality. However, I think that there is a time when a city reaches that "perfection point" where people stop playing it due to lack of things to do.

    Now, we saw an introduction to what I'd like in Rush Hour. The U-Drive it missions and free drive are great, but I think Societies could really develop this, for the obvious reason that it's a new game, but remember it's a 3D game, which makes stuff like this even better. U-Drive it should be continued with new additions(perhaps pedestrian travel and flight?).

Mini-games are a cool idea too.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Here's my biggest letdown with SCS so far: NO ZONES? NO UTILITES? NO PIPE LAYING?!

They really just can't ditch the zones idea can they- It's going to take forever to build just a single city and what about demand and all the stuff that goes with it?

They are going to have to stop marketing this to two year-olds and listen to the fans because I've seen the polls and we all want the new SC game to be better and even more challenging than SC4.

Now that I'm finished with what I want back I'll start with what I'd like as a new feature:

1. Changeable weather (Like rain, sun, snow ect...)

2. An Asian set of buildings like SC3000 had but where left out of SC4.

3. A more realistic subway system e.g. small and large subway pipes and stations that are something like 10x8 underground but only have say 4 1x1 above ground entrances (If the grid is included, I don't really mind if it is or isn't)

4. No u-drive it or any of that sort of stuff- If I want that I'll go buy some other game. Sim City= City building, that's it!

5. Just call it Sim City 5 please: we don't need stupid titles, SC5 is fine.

6. Improved graphics. They don't have to be in full 3D, just make them look nicer than SC4

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

The main thing I want is an elaborate transportation system. We have the basics plus some additional options in SC4, but we could use diagonal streets, dirt and gravel roads, large, sprawling highways 8-12 lines wide, more interchanges, bike lanes/trails, pedestrian plazas and walkways, more bridge and tunnel options, customizable bridges, huge railyards, trolleys, and more. Oh... and construction. As a Pennsylvanian, I'm used to construction... a lot. Traffic needs to reflect that plus some visuals would be nice. And 100% transportation funding shouldn't mean no potholes since wear-and-tear on our streets, highways, and pikes are a part of life.

The second thing is scaling. Scale has always been a problem in SimCity mainly due to technological restraints, but I think we can make SimCity at scale... and not just in the physical sense... houses with an average of 3 or 4 people, not 12, finances that are more accurately reflect real life, utilities that are more representative of real life in actual usage... for example, there are nuclear power plants in the United States can power a million homes as opposed to the much smaller amount in SC4.

Third, more building options, especially when it comes to civic buildings, utilities, etc. It shouldn't hurt to have 6 or 7 police station models... or 6 or 7 libraries or hospital buildings. That would give your cities more character. One that note, parks need more customization where you have the ability to add, delete, or move props in-game. You can start with a park template with paths and all or start from scratch with a blank grassy field.

Also, the passage of time should reflect how the cities look. A city in Art Deco style 1930 will look much different than a city in postmodern 1990. We've seen time play a part in what roads or buildings can be built. It should also play a role on the structural integrity of a building. Face it, buildings don't last forever and after many years, some become dilapidated. Structural integrity should be factored in based on wealth, age, and the amount of time the building was abandoned.

My last suggestion. The Simtropolis 1000 topic had this great idea by joerg to keep the grid system, but to shrink the grid to 1 square meter so building can be more flexible... meaning more angles in road building or building placement. It's a fantastic idea that can be implemented now.

I just want the most realistic city simulation possible... and although it might be tedious and boring for some, it will be fun for me and many in this community.

[sixers33 3]

Placing objects in non-flat terrain or near rivers and oceans are a pain in the arse. I would like that improved.

[Gman55 0]

*Better regional management tools, like designating certain cities as bedroom communities or industrial parks. Such meta designations would tweak the RCI demand for the given map, allowing you to better streamline regions. There should also be a way to plan highways and airports from the regional level.

*More transit options, but traffic and trips should be streamlined, if only for performance sake.

*Ordinances, ordinances, ordinances. They should have a huge impact on how your city operates. For example, London charges people who want to drive downtown. As a result, traffic has decreased dramatically. NYC is considering something similar. I should also be able to enact such an ordinance to increase revenues, reduce traffic, and promote mass transit use.

*Residential zoning should be improved. Example: subdivisions should automatically appear if I zone a swath of light res and surround it by a road system. By subdivision I mean houses with a common architectural style and boxed in by those low residential walls.

*As mentioned above: readjust the game's scale.

[Garek Maxwell 1]

Originally posted by: Mulefisk I have a suggestion to how we should make suggestions.

If someone else has posted a suggestion that you agree with, just copy it instead of writing it again in your own words. (Unless you have something very important to add obviously.) This will make it easier for tilted mill to understand what we want. quote>

Actually, it would be more efficient to simply create a list that is organized in several ways, primarily editted by the thread author. Or if not the thread author, then the author of another thread. (Edit button probably exists on this forum [never needed to use it yet, so I don't know] but this would make it more easier for Tilted Mill to view this information, especially if it was just below the first post!)

As for categorizing it, I'd recommend categorizing first by importance, then by color coding (if possible) to the type of changes wanted. Thus, something that deals in graphics would be in blue, while something that deals with features would be in green. However, it could also be color coded by importance. Red being a major interest to the community, green being low priority.

However, I would recommend that all suggestions added to the list be realistic. Asking them to make the whole game so intense in graphical beauty that most computers won't be capable of running it would obviously be not a good idea. Ditching the cartoonish style and just retexturing some of the old buildings isn't quite the same however, and more realistic.

-----------------------------

As for my suggestions....

1. Ditch the green pollution and go for a more browner color. Keep the green for radiation zones, just have it more long the ground more. (And obviously tweak it for visual appeal.)

2. Less cartoonish buildings. It doesn't have to be incredibly realistic, just more "normal" looking.

3. Moddability. (Extremely important in my opinion.) I'd go as far as saying allow the users to add more of almost anything, even terrain textures, ordinances, or ...what was that? "Social energies"?. This will give the game a very long lifespan if done well and easily. (Must be user friendly!) Of course, just allowing the ability to modify other aspects of the game more easily would be nice, outside of the buildings and such.

4. (I doubt they won't do this, but just to be safe...) Improve the graphics! Terrain doesn't have to be perfectly smooth, and the sky doesn't have to be so realistic you can spot Orion's Belt, but just have it look nicer than it is.

5. Keep the power plants and water supplies. If they've gotta be turned into more simpler forms, that's fine. Just don't remove them completely because I haven't heard of a city that doesn't have a need for power and water... (And waste disposal! ...Plus, it's not like they need to be "social energy" specific anyway...although that would be an interesting change...)

6. Zoning. I understand that there may be a removal of zoning. If this is to make way of a more City Life style of building where, while you controlled what was put down and could drag it out so more of the same was built, then at least make what you're plopping down more general. (Different kinds of houses grow from what you plopped, not the exact same cookie cutter house every time) Densities would be nice as well, as having that kind of control can very nice for many players who don't want a giant metropolis and simply want a small town.

7. As mentioned before, weather. We're not asking for hurricanes, just a drizzle and snow. It'd be nice if snow could pile up and rain could form puddles, but I don't think it'll be that much of a loss if those a left out for a nice weather effect/system. (Especially one in which it doesn't snow in the desert.)

8. As someone else mentioned, more ordinances, and more effective ordinances. (Hey, ya'll could make some of them effect those "social energies" and even have some of them unlocked by the same thing.) I would think a very "obedient" city would offer things like "cameras at every corner" but also things like "government controlled television and radio" or even something crazy as a "no electricity past midnight" ordinance.

That's all I can think of... Like I said earlier though, a list that's color coded and organized by importance would be better... I also just realized that I talk way way too much.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

I've got one last idea that seems a bit far-fetched, but it might be able to work. How about a MMO option? Some of you might remember SimCityScape on the official site and it was a first step towards that, although that simply didn't work that well. The game can combine regions and we can have a virtual SimCountry. There can be some interaction between regions and maybe a sister cities function where you can become associated with another city or region.

Kind of a longshot that will happen and the "country" will need some guidelines in order to work, but a man can dream. If you don't like that, there will always be the single player experience.

[grudy 0]

Though SMS is certainly not "simcity" anymore, and it is no longer a realistic city simulation, it might be intersting see SMS as an evolutionary branch of the simcity series.  While Simtropolis 1000 (or whatever the name ends up) will certainly be more what most of us want out of a city simulation, SMS could be fun in entirely different aspects, depending on how much the game actually focuses on societies.  It will be interesting to see if SMS will succeed as a game, not so much in city planning as in creating a civilization.  The screenshots remind me of Black and White.

I don't think there is any real point in speculating what SMS should or shouldn't include.  Those of us who want to create "realistic" cities will create our own game sooner or later, guaranteed, and it will be awesome.  I think what we are seeing is a difference in viewpoints about what simcity was designed as.  I also  think that there is creative potential to throwing Human aspects into the mix, as opposed to seeing the city as a people and money growing machine.  I have often felt disappointed in simcity because it seems like any creativity in designing the city (artistic expression) is purely for the satisfaction of the gamer, without any advantages in the actual game.  It would behoove us to at least see what SMS has to offer.

[JuliaSet 0]

Hello,

I'd hope that all of the work done on buildings could be ported to the new game.  (All of the neat buildings and/or skins).  Am not sure how it would work since we havent a clue about the format, if there will be any carry-over in files from one game to another. 

I think this will make the old fans happy, since their work will spread to another release.

[brutus the duck 0]

Snow, desert and such... you should choose your terrain

Better terraforming, sunken highwaytunnels

I don't know how to download these mods, afraid to get virusses etc.

[b3rglund 0]

I want a better way to build along coast and river banks, no larger city in the world has a big strech of grass between the city and the river. We got a lot of nice embankment sets for SC4 but I would like to be able to build buildings and parks that "hangs" out in the water. And what I've seen of the screen shots I sure hope we get more than that one bridge.

[Odainsaker 2,137]

As an approach, I would like to see more "environmental factors" play a role in city design. Right now, we can just whip out any map and sprawl any abstracted city to optimize simulation variables or suit any visual whim. It doesn't really matter what the terrain really looks like.

Consider instead:

Many of use are decrying the loss of laying out pipes. I don't miss that too much, as it was more like clerical work or chore than design. If we really want to delve into designing our water systems, we might instead look into managing water features, ground water tables, and reservoir systems. How much pumping can you realistically do, how much water must you import, how much water can you trap and store, or how much do you need to desalinate in order to meet all your city's growing needs? How much development do you allow atop your acquifers, or how much river water do you divert to serve your agricultural areas? Do your popular springs trickle out from overpumping or your diverted rivers run dry before they reach the sea? A city in a wet climate with a high water table is going to have different options anbd priorities than a city in dry desert climate. Perhaps all those suburban crabgrass frontiers come with a cost, or perhaps your desert city is rolling in so much entertainment cash that you can afford the cadillac desert. That is more interesting, as has far greater impact on cities and their design, than rote pipe laying.

Think of the geology. Building a subway versus light rail should be informed not just by the capacities of each, or the immediate cost of each, but perhaps also if the geology of the local ground makes subways under this or that tile too expensive or not. Some cities do not build subways, or do so at great cost, or route them in unusual patterns, because their ground is made of stone which must be blasted through, thus making above-ground transit alternatives more appealing. Similarly, when that next earthquake hits your city, and the buildings zoned over soft sandy soil suffer more catastrophic damage, do you enact tough building code ordinances to minimize such damage at the risk of making development prohibitively expensive and hurting quick growth?

Things like this can be fleshed out in so many different ways, but hopefully the examples are somewhat illustrative. Of course, none of these should necessarily be prohibitive or overly complicated. Any amount of money can buy teutonic engineering, and you can always ignore the minimal risks and beat the odds, for their are no "right" answers to design. Options and priorities always change over time, but it gives us another level of things to think about, or ignore, when designing an evolving city.

This isn't to say I don't like the societal factor either. I'm not sure I'm convinced on the "aura" or "energies" pattern that SCS is suggesting, as it sounds too vague and monolithic. What broad stereotype of "wealth" and "obediance" do I need to make a Chinese city versus a North American one? Actually, I would like to see more user-defined ethnicity play into designing cities in SimCity somehow, and the literature of urban geography is full of models on how groups interact and are distributed in a city. Perhaps like the religions modded in Civilization 4, they can be named by the players and keyed to certain buildings or tilesets, and perhaps have more visual stylistic affects on a city (rather than simulation variables like health or education), such as more temples or churches likely to appear in a city or its districts given this or that local demographic. I'm not sure, this needs much fleshing out to prevent improprieties from either certain programmed stereotypes or players themselves playing by stereotype. However, it could offer much more interesting factors to play with.

[yamaneko 2]

Streets at angles other than 90 degrees do not appear in the pictures; neglecting diagonal streets would be a throwback to before SC 3000.  If anything, sacrificing detail for appearance would offer an opening for roads at arbitrary angles. 

Let users determine the degree of complexity they want in the game.  Some users do not want to deal with water pipes and power lines while others do.  Plopping down buildings sounds more labor-intensive than zoning and letting the Sims build where they may.  Like Civilization IV, much of the game engine should be left open to modders. 

[blahdy 21]

It seems we are back to Sim City 1 in the 1980's in terms of transportation with SCS. What's up with that? :-$

[Vanasonic 49]

A tool to somehow export Sims from the Sims 2 into your city and see they end up. Although there were many more important ideas already suggested such as more transportation options.

[Giligone 10]

I think its pretty much unanimous. We all want more transportation options. lol. Even all the ones we got in Rush hour wasn't enough to satisfy our hunger.

[Silur 3,308]

Please be calm ...

There are many  poor words ... 

SCS - for little and little place with TREMENDOUS eyes !!!

[Chris Beatrice 0]

Excellent!

[Chris Beatrice 0]

Hey all,

Just wanted to say thanks for this thoughtful and detailed presentation of your insights and ideas.

-Chris

[brutus the duck 0]

I want the houses built with the landscape, not an ugly house on a mountain with that ugly thing beneath it that looks grey

And also the type of buildings, Roman houses/temples, very big sail ships like HMS Victory.

You can choose the time you build in, have custom maps etc.

[DARKO 3]

No offesne Silur, but I've read almost all of your 4oo and something posts and I always come away feeling like I just read a confusing fortune cookie.

I'm guessing its the translator your using. It's just sorta difficult to well....read some of your posts, thats all.

Once again, please do not take offense.

[DARKO 3]

I guess that I should add something about the game.

One thing I have also noticed besides the fore mentioned, is a lack of props like in SC4. I'm worried that each time a building i plopped the same exact building props/colors, and all will be there. That would make some major monotony for sure.

I'm still stuck on the terrain textures. I expected alot more. Blades of grass and different types of foliage perhaps. Trees that are taller than 3 feet. Realistic ones at that. If anything please let this be modifiable. We'll then take it from there.

Also the approach on the roads we have seen. I'm seeing alot of unaligned roads in relation ot the lots. Some Lots when flushed against roads create a few feet of submerged land. This is awfully unrealistic and annoying. If anything, raise the height of the lots or lower the height of the roads thickness.

A approach that I once had for a more indepth SimCity incarnation was the land developer aspect. Where you were given a list of buildings when plopping that were suggested by the market or planners to be plopped. This could give a balance to say how man gas stations or supermarkets are needed in a certain radius.

Above all else giving us a sense of a city experience is very important. The added touches of things like parking lots, Trees, and other aesthetics, gives a wonderful gaming experience. It lets people create what is a city to them, a certain comfort level. I feel a approach that gives the feel of adding that little overlooked real world touch is probably the most important thing to the lot of us.

Thanks for reading.