Simtropolis 1000

[dedgren 830]

You know, I'll just make an observation or two.

1. Writing full featured game software as a distance collaboration project is biting off a lot. I think your development time, if the project would really get going, would be measured in years. It's not that it's a bad idea, it just may not be a workable idea.

2. I see a lot of posts that talk about such a project as if it would be limited to things Simtropolis. The community is larger than ST, and a parochial point of view as to any of the issues that confront the community these days does not serve the community's interests as a whole. I truly hope all who read this are big enough to see that.

David

[aking88 7]

I dont know about the sketchupidea. I do not even know if its usable for games. You can always use it and export models to 3dsmax etc though .

Anyhow... i wanted to add another thing i noticed in the texts about the game and in the screenshots, they have like buddhist temples, churches, are talking about different cultures and stuff. Sure that is all awesome as landmarks but its not really part of the simworld.

The simworld is a fantasyversion of the world. Anyhow sure these things are not the problem in themselves but they indicate that maybe they dont really keep the concept of simcity.

Just wanted to share the thoughts its not really a big deal contentwise, but in SC4 we had like "gods house" instead of specific cultures. And even if there where to be different religions, cultures etc in SC5 i would like them to be customisable and with unique, fantasy values/attributes.

[slowerisfaster 0]

Ok I was following this thread yesterday; then I went to sleep; and now I have four or five pages to read! There is certainly a lot of excitement surrounding this idea and I hope the next surge of excitement we see is in 2 or 3 years when this project is about to be released, but that is a looong way off. I've seen lots of ideas proposed but as others have mentioned there are still some very crucial tasks to be done in terms of organization, goal setting, collaboration with other sites, ect.

One aspect I would like to address briefly would be that of funding as it will play a crucial role as to whether this project succeeds or fails. Let's face it at some point in time money IS going to be required, whether it be for 3d programs, salary for a programmer (since none have volunteered yet), server space, etc. As others have mentioned this should be a free program; not for profit! If your intentions are to make it profitable from the start then you will become the very thing you are trying to avoid (an evil corporation like EA). Also selling the game really doesn't help anyone in creating this project. Think about it for a second, why do companies sell thier games? To make a profit? Yes of course, but also to pay back all the money that was used to develop it. Where did all this money come from? Obviously they already had it or at the very least borrowed it from a bank. Here at simtropolis we do not already have a boatload of cash lying around and I doubt we could borrow the money so in the end there will be nothing that needs to be paid back therefore there is no reason to sell the game, no matter how tempting it might be.

What we do need is to collect money for this project so that the developers will already have something to work with when they begin the actually leg work. The best method to do this is the same way other volunteer projects collect money, through donations or possibly grants. In this manner there will be no one who needs to be paid back as the people who donate will know ahead of time that it is a gift not a loan. Also it is the best way for someone who doesn't have any technical skills to contribute to the project.

One thing that has not been addressed (but is very important) is who will be keeping track of these donations and how will it be done? This is imporant because every person who donates has the right to know what their money is being used for. Also if there is no accountablity then it becomes far to easy for somone to skim off the top or make frivilous purchases. Though I would love to see a setup like this based entirely on trust I realize that this is unrealistic when human emotions (like greed) become involved. That is why every dollar recieved and every dollar spent on this project (should it actually get off the ground) but be accounted for with receipts to document everything. Furthermore this information needs to be fully accesible to the community and reports should be generated on a set schedule. While this isn't the biggest issue the project faces right now (afterall it doesn't even have an official name yet) it will become very important in the near term and should be considered.

[+Guest]

For a completely 3d game, more detail will drain everyone's computer.  We need the illusion of more detail.

Here is a Case Study for Game Development from Sketchup's website...

http://www.sketchup.com/?id=21&csid=128

[jimmy92233 0]

This is soooo not cool. I can't believe this game....

NO ZONES???? That just strips away all the SimCity-ness from this game.

I am disappointed; maybe shouldn't have set such high expectations for SC5.

Long live SIMCITY4 and all you awesome Simtropolians!

[Duper 0]

I think a lot of you are being too skeptical and overly practical about the whole thing.  Lets just do it for fun, see if it works out, if it doesn't then oh well. Its not the end of the world. I think Simtropolis 1.0  needs its own sub-Forum to be honest. At least so people can quit talking about what SCS is lacking and focus on the real project!

[munchkin5 0]

I'm still suggesting a website, it would create a more organised base for this, maby even just a sub-site connected from simtropolis, or at-least it's own forum.

[ianpaschal 77]

Originally posted by: munchkin5 I'm still suggesting a website, it would create a more organised base for this, maby even just a sub-site connected from simtropolis, or at-least it's own forum.quote>

 

For the THIRD TIME!  WE HAVE ONE!  HERE!

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Or more appropriatly, we have one HERE!

Oh by the way im totally in on this, who else is going to do the rail infastructure

[ianpaschal 77]

Originally posted by: ILL Tonkso Or more appropriatly, we have one HERE!

Oh by the way im totally in on this, who else is going to do the rail infastructure quote>

 

That would be funny tonks if we didnt' actually need one.  This topic is way too cluttered.  We need a seperate forum to keep it organized.  And since BLaM has been working on it the most in the last 2 days, onlyplace4 started a forum we can use.  If you have another forum that works better, then we can use that, but right now dev.simcities.com works best.

[JCarter 0]

I just want to say that this project is cool!!!! I myself have absolutley no MODing, BATing, or LODing skills whatsoever but I hope I can help out with other things. We also need to pull in people outside of ST too so we can get a good start. Lets use the summer to get ahead

[munchkin5 0]

so is the work in this thread moving to the new forum.

[ianpaschal 77]

Originally posted by: munchkin5 so is the work in this thread moving to the new forum.quote>

 

So it would seem.  We need a better way to organize this than this one topic.

[the olive 0]

I think there should be a group made to collect any suggestions and to come up with as many as possible, then all the ideas would be altogether.

[mjig_dudy 11]

well, i would recommend that the development team keep the rest of us updated in a thread, such as this. So that we can all still have some say in what happens.

Also, is that forum open to anyone, only those that the leaders of the project ask to join?

[ianpaschal 77]

I think it's open to anyone but you have to be approved. I'll ask onlyplace4 when he gets back. There's maybe 2 sections, parts that all members can post in and parts that only developers can post in.

[the olive 0]

I still have not be approved, whats taken so long

[ianpaschal 77]

Originally posted by: the olive I still have not be approved, whats taken so long quote>

 

Mike is at work for another 2.5 hours.  Have patience.  If you want to talk to me on MSN, feel free.

scipiothethieflord@gmail.com

[Ntq€310 1]

if we do this, it would send a message to EA, and MAXIS, and even TM, what we want in simcity, and that we will not let it die

[BurroDiablo 222]

This project is starting to sound really really awesome.

BTW... Scipio said '17 views'...whats that... North, East, South, West, Underground, a few zooms (SC4 has 5 or 6, can't remember) what would the others be? Ground level? Birds Eye (Old GTA type)? A ground level view would be great but it would probably lag to hell given the amount of detail this game could possibly have.

[the olive 0]

other then the 4 views there are now in SC4 you would probubly be able to see down a street, so another 4 views but not diagnal.

[ianpaschal 77]

The 17 views are:

1. Top down. Like a map. Might be nice to play like this sometimes.

2. 8 views on diagonal, looking at corner of building, traditional SC style, 4 of them at 30 degrees and 4 of them at 60 degrees to the ground.

3. 8 views facing the sides of the buildings, also in the 30 60 method.

This creates 4 arcs of viewing angle. Almost as good as 3d however still using pre rendered images so we can have lots of detail and good quality while still having a lot of viewing angles.

[Duper 0]

Thats cool ive never thought of it that way but wouldnt that consume a lot of memory?

[ssfsx17 0]

Ordinary 3-D might actually be a little easier than 17 pre-rendered views.

[ianpaschal 77]

nope. It's hard to understand if you don't BAT, but a model of a skyscraper is made of often 20,000 faces or more, each one being taken into acount with the perspective and textures and lighting. That's WAY more tax on a computer than 17 images.

[edmonton_stinks 5]

Yes, I am from Calgary.

This idea is great. Getting a lot of traffic here.

One thing though: we might not want to include too much in the game itself. Not saying we go down to the level of SCS, but perhaps we could have more of a SC4 sort of setup. Have a basic, vanilla version of the game, then some of the additional stuff (like my idea for transit routes) could be downloadable extras. We don't want the basic version of the game to crash somebody's computer.

[Gman55 0]

Priority No. 1: Establishing leadership positions, delegating authority, setting goals, etc.

A project won't go anywhere without management.

[star.torturer 0]

i Pledge my full support to this idea and hopefully the rest of my developemt team will also come, all 5 or 6 of us

i also think that having a basic game is probably better to start with, though not to the level of sc4, maybe somehting slightly less intensive to start with then develop our p[rograming sckills and master the world with a mindbendingly great thing, just so that the pposibility of releasing a playable game is reduced from about 5 years to the end of this year lol

joe

[patriots_1228 51]

joergg is the leader.

everyone-even if this doesnt succeed,at least lets try.

[aking88 7]

For a completely 3d game, more detail will drain everyone's computer.  We need the illusion of more detail.quote>

I agree with this and what others have said about 3d.

Maybe the ideas with more rendered zooms/views is the answer?

Think about it, if there were to be produced a SIMCITY 5 in true 3D with the features we have had ideas for on this forum amongst others, and which would look better and have better gameplay than SC4, no PC would cope with it and therefore its questionable if its doable today.

Therefore i say we should stick to 2D and develope the gameplay, simulationqualities and different parts such as layers etc to create even more 3d experience in a 2D rendered game. And maybe maybe we could have 3D elements like a 3d photo-mode but that would mean that we would need not only .dat and .model files for the objects but also the original 3D model for every object to be loaded in photo mode (still shots).

But a fully 3D rendered game is so dependant on effects; weather effects, lighting effects, reflections, antialiasing etc that first of all it would drain so much PC power in such a huge world, and secondly it needs to be very detailed to look good. Also how would it look when a 3D building is demolished, will it have to be dynamically working, in other words have animations for such events.

Its so much work for a 3D version of simcity better than SC4RH or even equivalent. Lets have an improved gameplay (menus for example), evolved simulation and better moddingpossibilities. And some new touches to graphics and gamefundamentals, different weathers, advanced online gameplay with custom content synchronization (read more about my online gaming ideas for simcity in the "future of simcity discussion threads" or equivalent in Skyscrapercity), lets solve simple problems like the crimebug for very high density CO buildings. Give us more influence and insight in the politics of the city such as encouraging private schools, university and other educational/other services investments or instead have a city based on publicly payed services or being able to create referendums on political questions and see what the sims in the city want. Lets have more in depth environmental issue solving. All in all lets make the gameplay deeper and totally moddable.

Slowerisfaster|

Who has said that EA is "evil" becouse they want to make money. The bad thing is that they own so many divisions and produce so much that they cant possible have much focus on Simcity alone, which Maxis did to at least some extent when being more independent. Id like SC's development to be lead by a studio/company more devoted to the series that was what i was meaning.

About organisation yes i believe we need to setup a website and a good organisation with good communication which can be easily contacted by people who want to join or can contribute at some point.

Another issue that needs to be adressed early is the choice between 3d and 2d graphics. I do not believe we can render a detailed simcitygameplay in 3D.