Philadelphia vs Pittsburgh

[Sparks1176 1]

~Agreed. I'm simply editing this part since the other post has now been deleted~ Mic

now with that said, back on topic.  Philly is certifiable 100 times better.  Without the steel industry dried up in Picksburg, there is nothing left there.  The penquins want to leave town so bad because their arena is a joke.  The Pirates havent had a winning season in over 15 years.  They have nothing to offer.  Philly on the other hand, Other than it being the backbone of this country with Independance hall, liberty bell and the birthplace of the constitution.  Has all 4 major sports teams with brand new state of the art stadiums and arenas.  Home of the world famous Cheesesteak, along with some of the most unique and interesting architecture that has been mainstreamed throughout the country, I.E. Rowhouses, Liberty One and Two.  I could go on and on, but this discussion is like comparing Apples to Oranges.  There is no Comparison.  Philadelphia is by far the better city.  All around. 

[st louis dude 6]

Now that I think about,with all of these uncultured and untrue assumptions I don't even know why I started this thread. By the way,the arena is very nice.

[Sparks1176 1]

Don't start a thread if we can't voice our opinions.  And nothing about my response was untrue.  

[aestiva 0]

I know there's some smack to be talked between the two cities, but let's not get salty. I went to college in Philly and spent most of my adult life living around it, but my best friend and his wife are both from Pittsburgh. We can all be friends.

BTW, Jim's on South Street Has the finest steaks. . . that should start the flame 

[M-SIL 2]

Well, I prefer Pittsburgh over Philadelphia. Why? The skyline compliments the terrain really well, one of the lowest cost of living in the northeast US,  below average real estate prices in region (which is great) and I always like the Steelers.

[mayorron 0]

Pittsburgh pour moi.

I love Pittsburgh, haven't been there, but by what people says about the city, I kinda like it.

The geographical location is beautiful. I love the hills, the trees, the river, oh did I say the hills?

It is a very hilly city, I guess, much more "hilly" than San Francisco, well I don't know.

But for Philly, I love the Cheesesteaks! haven't really been there, but I tasted one, although I isn't authentic.

I guess I have to go there some other time for that delicious Philly icon.

And yea, I'll visit Pittsburgh some day as well.

[Lifetime 0]

Well, I am a bit biased, since I was born and raised in Philadelphia suburbs. But I like Philly much better. It is larger, has more impressive architecture, and is just plain weirder. Where else would you find a museum with the largest human colon, or any of the other strange stuff we have? It isn't a clean city or a nice city, but it's gritty and down-to-earth, and that's why I like it. It is frustrating sometimes though, because the city has so much potential and is being held back by red tape and taxes coming from a corrupt city hall. Pittsburgh has a better government, to be sure.

[mayormark87 0]

i have never been to philadelphia, so i really can not say which city is the better city, but i love my pittsburgh. the night views of the city from any of the bridges or coming from the noth shore or from just about any road are simply breathtaking. i love it and always will and it being the city i grew up around, pittsburgh will always have a special part in my heart that any other city on the planet can't take.

[JackStraw 19]

Originally posted by: aestiva I know there's some smack to be talked between the two cities, but let's not get salty. I went to college in Philly and spent most of my adult life living around it, but my best friend and his wife are both from Pittsburgh. We can all be friends.

BTW, Jim's on South Street Has the finest steaks. . . that should start the flame  quote>

 

AGREED.... Both Pats and Genos steaks SUCK!!!!!!  Totally for the tourists set, or when its like 3am and your blasted drunk and they are the only thing open.  If you want a real cheesesteak, go to any corner pizza shop in the city or the burbs,  the worst of these are ten times better than Pats or Genos.  If your in to the thick stretchable meat wit wiz, then Id recommend Tony Luke's at  Front & Oregon.  I have had JIms, but not on South Street, I prefer the one at 62nd & Callowhill.

[egelder22 0]

Well, I don't know much about Philly, but I enjoy bashing Pittsburgh. I'm from NY and go to school in Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh is no comparison to NYC. The transportation sucks. You can't walk anywhere, driving is a nightmare, and there is no mass transit to speak except for the buses that seldom show up. Downtown is nothing to be proud of. It literally closes at 5pm. Nothing is open after dark in the entire city. And as for industry, the only thing Pittsburgh had going for it was the steel industry. And now that it left, they're trying to "revitalize" the city by knocking down the old mills and replacing them with big box shopping centers. The "Waterfront" development has no visual or physical connection to the actual river!

And as far as culture, Pittsburgh is a sports town. And I hate that. It's entire population consists of crazed Steelers fans who hang around getting drunk in bars and live and breathe for their beloved football team. It's actually pretty pathetic. I've never seen such a low-class town in my life. And that's another point. Pittsburgh is a TOWN, not a city. It tries to keep it's small town feel, but all that leads to is major traffic problems and everything being closed at night.

The way I see it, despite all the fruitless efforts to save the city, it's inevitably going downhill. The only thing holding it together now are the two major universities: Carnegie Mellon and U Pitt who really only use Pittsburgh in their name and do nothing for it. Without them trying promoting the city, it would just be an abandoned steel town.

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, seeing as I've never been to Pittsburgh, I'm gonna withhold judgment since I have no personal experience to compare by....

[hamsterTK 93]

I havent been there either

So, because I think cheese steak hot pockets are nasty, im gonna go with pittsburgh

(j/k)

[Haljackey 17,354]

Um... Can we have some more facts about the two cities? I have no idea which city your pictures are from so its hard for me to pick between the two.

Frankly, I have heard nothing positive about these two cities, possibly because I don't live in the States. To the International community, Pittsburgh is known as "The Pits" because of its bad air quality and steel mills, and its low income neighbourhoods. Philadelphia is known lots of ghettos and the cheesesteak. Can you confirm these or provide some sort of information to the people on this site that are not American or don't know anything about these two cities?

[egelder22 0]

Well, I can tell you about Pittsburgh.

The steel mills are long gone but the soot remains. Buildings in the city still have black soot stains on them. It does have a lot of low-income neighborhoods, though. The rivers are horribly polluted and smell. The streets are narrow and wind up and down steep hills and with people always parallel parked on both sides, there's hardly any room to drive. Freight trains are a frequent sight bu there is no passenger rail to speak of except for one Amtrak trains which I've never seen. There are still a lot of abandoned steel mills and factories. Steel may be gone but the Steelers prevail. Everyone is obsessed with that football team. I see old ladies wearing Steelers jersies.

Overall, Pittsburgh is not a pretty place. The only reason I can imagine anyone would want to live is because it has the lowest cost of living in the country.

[roadguy 0]

Philly vs. Pitt... well, it depends on what you are looking for in a city. Both cities are trying to rebound after decades of decay. Philly has a lot of crime and certain areas aren't appealing. the city also has a larger population w/ a nice skyline and a developed mass transit system. Although Pittsburgh is a big sports town w/ a really nice skyline too, only on a smaller scale from Phillys'. But Philly is going through a revitilization period and in the coming years it should improve.

For now, I like Pitt's skyline because of its location at the three rivers and it's also safer. Granted, Philly has a more diversified culture and has a lot of different architecture from traditional to contemporary.

Philly, though, has a lively downtown enviroment unlike Pitt's some-what empty downtown.

Therefore, I really don't prefer Pitt or Philly because they both lack certain things that you would look for in a liveable city.

[c2check 0]

It's hard to compare the two since Philly MUCH larger than Pittsburgh.

But: Pittsburgh does have a beautiful landscape and some great architecture. The people are awesome and the culture is great (maybe just because I'm used to it living here, I love all the Italians and Slavs!) Prices are low, people are authentic, and while it cannot match NYC in transport in any fashion (NO city in the US can most likely, so I don't know why you would even begin to comapre Pgh and NYC) it's pretty good and extensive compared to other mid-sized cities. You can indeed walk places, provided you live in the city (not suburbs, which just suck EVERYWHERE) Pittsburgh has made a remarkable turnaround in only 50 years from having the sky literally black as night at noon to having pretty clean air and water (the rivers don't smell, though they're not shining carribean blue either)

Driving is tough, unless you're familiar with the area. But it's a fun challenge :-) and it's bounds better than driving in DC! (where I go to school). Pittsburgh drivers are pretty nice.

A downtown closing at 5pm is common throughout mid-sized cities. Pittsburgh has cool neighborhoods though: the strip, oakland, south side, etc. Outside of the city, you can indeed see the strain from the collapse of the steel industry (ex Braddock, Versailles, McKeesport, etc)...and those places are crapholes. But so is South Philly.

SO: Pittsburgh is an pretty cool mid-sized city, but a crappy large-sized city (since it's not one).

Philly can have more transport becuase it is simply much larger. With that size also comes more cultural establishments, etc. Because Philly is older, it has more history and older, denser architecture. But I really don't find Philly's skyline as nice as Pgh's at all. No way. The smaller architecture is interesting and cool (ie rowhouses, etc) but the skyline is not spectacular. Besides, it's so flat! And it gets all smelly for Jersey! (jk jk :-p ) Though the neighborhoods in Philly are full of architecture and are happening. A recent train layover in Philly was perhaps the scarriest time of my life...although I don't hold it against the city. AND Philly benefits from being in the northeast corridor between DC and Boston. Overall, I'm sure Philly is a good large city, though (from limited experience) I prefer Boston.

Anyway, Pittsburgh is not that bad so stop bashing us! At least we're better than Cleveland!! :-p

[c2check 0]

Oh, MstrViolinist2:

If you hate tiny, winding streets, cars parked on both sides, hills, and people who would die for their sports teams, you must hate Italy, Spain, Germany... yes, Europe is full of god-forsaken crapholes indeed!

And Pittsburgh (at least inside the city, except the Hill) is very beautiful if you ask me. The parks are really nice too. I miss them a lot, even with the Mall in DC...it's just not the same.

The people are great...you don't get the friendly old lady from Penn Mac or the old Greek guy at Stambooli's getting your cheese or meat or whatever in DC...and if you did, it would cost 3x more.

[crazyyaya 4]

Pittsburgh is the pitts, i much more like philly, i only hope that city can rebound from decades of urban decay and crime.

[c2check 0]

From a local newspaper i think: 

"Pittsburgh itself is a small city (2,385,695 people called the city home in 2002). It might be more helpful, though, to think about Pittsburgh as a big small-town, a perspective you'll understand as soon as the clerk at Co-Go's calls you "hun".

Be prepared to throw away any misconceptions about the Steel City. While Pittsburgh is proud of its industrial past, it's now a national financial and technological center. (The city has more doctoral scientists and engineers per capita than Boston, L.A., or San Francisco.)

The food throws some newcomers: french fries on sandwiches, french fries on salads. The driving habits throw others: when a light turns green, watch for the car facing you to take a Pittsburgh left across what you might have assumed was your right-of-way. Then again, drivers are so friendly here that they will actually let you merge without taking off the rear half of your car.

Pittsburgh accents and language take their share of potshots. (eg. Win yinz go t' tahn, watch fer the sputzies in Market Square n'at.) It gets easier after the 100th visit to the Jynt Iggle! And the weather's nothing to brag about: only Seattle has fewer days of sunshine.

But it doesn't take most people long to fall in love with the place. Not only does the city have personality, it has character. One of the local television stations recently ran an honesty test on Pittsburghers. Fifteen wallets -- with cash -- were dropped around town. Guess how many were returned, contents intact?

All of em.

Welcome to the Burgh!"

[egelder22 0]

c2check: You obviously don't get out a lot. The whole city is a crumbling mess and it's not "fun" to drive around for hours and get lost going up and down hills. As for a medium-sized city, it is truly a failure. It is a small town that's grown too big, and it's anyone that has to go downtown that suffer. There's no main route into the city and the buses are infrequent and unpredictable. And the rivers do smell. You can't swim in them because of the raw sewage being dumped in them.  And as an architecture student, I can say Pittsburgh's architecture is pretty generic, not interesting.  The old stuff is alright, but nothing new is really noteworthy.

I've never been to Europe but I think I would like it. Cities in Europe are much cleaner. Pittsburgh's hills are overgrown and full of trash and decrepit buildings. The only source of stability in the city are UPMC and CMU. If they collapsed (as CMU might because of it's financial problems) then the city will fall with it.

And as for that article, it all sounds pretty bad if you ask me. What character? All I see is people who hang around in sports bars all day and wait for news about the Steelers. It's quite sickening to go to place that only has one thing on their mind. It's the lowest-class place I've ever seen. If you like a city full of poor surrounded by suburbs full of white trash then you'll love that hell-hole. Not for me. I'd trade Pittsburgh for my home city of NYC any day. NYC has real class, and a city that has multiple personalities and is not just black and white.

[c2check 0]

MstrViolinist2: You can't even begin to compare NYC to Pgh. So don't try.

I'm an architecture student too. So I also know a bit about such things. I guess we have different viewpoints a bit :-p

To begin, I've at least been to Berlin. I thought it would be a utopian city of efficiency. Not so much. Filthy in many parts, covered with graffiti, broken glass, and urine, very near the city center. (that gave it a bit of charachter in any case) Rome and Paris I've also heard are pretty dirty. I've been to New Orleans. Filthy (and not just from the hurricaine). Boston..well boston was ok in most parts. DC: you have rich, overpriced places that are nice, and then filthy crime-ridden stinkholes like in NE where my uni is. Parts of Philly were the same.

The rivers smell? If you say so. Maybe I've gotten used to it. And we can't swim in them? Do you swim in the Hudson? (probably not unless you're dead) Washingtonians in the Patomac? (they've found some mutated fish in the Potomac...they're male AND female. Hm. Clean there, eh?) Do Parisians swim in the Siene or Romans in the Tiber?

Pittsurgh is overgrown? Now it's like half the size it was 30 years ago. If anything, it's undergrown now. The problem is that the area is still following the national trend of spreading outwards...so while we're not gaining population, we're moving further away. Americans boggle my mind. Freaking suburbs. It's not just Pgh either.

Main route into the city? I don't fully understand this one...explain.

New architecture is boring. Ok..agreed. ;-) There's not much of it. Though things like the Convention center, PPG place, Children's museum additions are pretty cool. And the new building on CMU's campus looks pretty cool too (I love CMU's campus...I think it's so well-planned and beautiful for the most part)

Busses: pittsburgh has a LOT of bus servie compared to other cities its size. I seriously have no clue how because it's so inefficient I don't know what to do with myself. Again, I guess you're used to tje 24hr subway and mutlitude of busses available in NYC.

It also seems you haven't visited many other cities similar to Pgh. Although, admittedly, neither have I really, but from what I've read things in Pgh aren't all that bad relatively.

Driving should be easy in DC. I mean, it was planned, is a grid, and has "convenient" diaganals as "short cuts" across town. Nope. You have to go in more cirlcles around that place to get where you wanna go than anywhere. Everywhere is one-way and it's never marked, or you assume you can turn somewhere and you can't. Anyhow, Pittsburgh has a challenging landscape and we've done our best. It's not THAT hard. Plus, we're generally friendly drivers, unlike Virginia, Boston...etc.

You don't understand the Pgh "culture" I suppose...there are stories upon stories of people forced from Pgh due to lack of work who yearn to return. I don't think any other city has such an emotional attatchment to it. I can't tell you why entirely...but it's there evidently. Evidently you just can't appreciate somplace that's different from the 24/7 hustle of NYC (no offense). I much prefer it to DC: you either have rich snooty bastardous senators, lawyers, etc; the intern who moves to DC for a few years and makes no roots; or the poor NE/SE black family who has to pay $300,000 for a house in the ghetto.

AND there's no kolbasy, halusky, etc!! AND I NEED THAT!!! That and polka :-p

Pittsburgh's not the world's best city. But it's not THAT bad!! Seriously! Stop expecting it to be New York and enjoy the view B-) Although you're probably in studio all the time anyhow, so what's it matter to you!?!

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Neither one must be too great, considering that so many move into my area from there........

[egelder22 0]

c2check: say what you want you're not going to change how I think. CMU's campus is beautiful and well-planned and the new building is probably going to be the most interesting piece of architecture in the region. But that's it. CMU is not representative of the city because it is a worldly place and no one there is actually from Pittsburgh.

I guess you would have to have lived there to really like it. I think it's a horrible place with bad weather most of the year in a crumbling region of abandoned steel mills and coal mines.

[c2check 0]

Fine, whatever.

Just stop comparing Pgh (or anywhere else) to NYC.  Try to understand what the city is, why it is like it is, and appreciate what is good.  Not everywhere is perfect, but every city is special and has something to teach about architecture and urbanism.   Even Cleveland (probably).

 It's all about genus loci  :-p

[homeandaway 1]

erm...probably Pittsburgh - better architechure....

~alex~

[josefmayor 8]

Each city has its own pluses, but I would say I like Pitsburgh better because of its beautiful bridges and increadible architecture.

Philadelphia is beautiful too... But I like Pitsburgh better...

[pjmch7 1]

I have never been to Pittsburgh but it seems like a really nice city...

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Philadelphia, not just because I grew up here either though. I can't think of any other city like Philly (or really... the whole metro)... it's hard to describe. Sure we have problems, some neighborhoods are downright warzones, the schools suck, and the job market isn't moving, but most of the city is great.

Pictures:

[trackseventeen 0]

Philadelphia vs. Pittsburgh? Okay, I'll go tit for tat.

Philadelphia, once the the third largest city in America, 2.5 million at it's peak (1960) Current pop 1.5 million, 5th largest city in America. Pittsburgh's population has never been over 1/2 million.

Philadelphia, despite all it's problems is going through a major revival. People are moving back into Center City and other neighborhoods in droves. 500ft residential towers are springing up everywhere. The 900+ft Bridgeman's Tower will break ground soon. I am at a loss here, is this type of thing going on in Pittsburgh? I don't think so.

Transportation.... Philadelphia has a REAL subway system consisting of four lines...(The MFL, The BSS, PATCO, and The Subway Surface Lines). Plus there is talk(that's all it is, is talk) of building a BSS branch up the Roosevelt Blvd, and extending the Subway Surface Lines to the Delware River for the much to long overdue REAL development of Penn's Landing. Philadelphia also has an extensive Regional railroad system that enters Downtown in a Subway like tunnel. There is only one other city in America that has it's commuter trains enter the city in a tunnel and that is New York. Philadelphia's western suburbs has three light rail lines that funnel traffic to the subway system. Pittsburgh has busses.

Philadelphia is World Class, Pittsburgh is second class. Some examples... Fairmount Park, the largest city park in the WORLD, and arguably the most beautiful. The main section of Fairmount Park is twenty times larger than NYC's Central Park and two times bigger than The Bronx River park. Fairmount Park is home to The Philadelphia Zoo, America's first and one of the most respected in the world. The Philadelphia Museum of Art, a world renowned facility also calls Fairmount Park home. Fairmount Park has hosted two World's Fairs. Philadelphia has also hosted two worldwide benefit concert's... 1985's Live Aid and 2007's Live Eight... Um, I think the Stones have played in Pittsburgh, right? The Pennsylvania Ballet is in Philly, not Pittsburgh, wonder why? The Philadelphia Orchestra is one of the nation's oldest and most respected, having played for the World's most elite for over a century now.

Philadelphia has lot's of higher education. University Of Pennsylvania, founded by Franklin himself is a school that attracts the brightest minds from all over the world. Drexel and Temple, don't have the prestige of Penn, but still you must have some brains to get accepted there. Especially Drexel, which is a well respected school in the technology sector, even if it is voted most ugly campus year after year. Out in the suburbs is where you will find yet more of the world's most elite colleges. Swarthmore, Haverford, and Bryn Mawr Colleges are all small elite Liberal Arts schools that only accept the world's most brightest and richest. Villanova, with it's ranking year after year in the top five of having the hottest co-eds is a party school deluxe, while Saint Joe's quietly takes second stage to Villanova in everything. If I were to talk about every 4 year school in the Philly Metro I'd never finish, there are to many. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure CMU and UPMC are fine schools.

Industry? Ok, well Pittsburgh was known to be the steel and glass capital of the World. Very impressive. Although I do think it's funny that Billy Joel choose to sing about the declining steel industry using Allentown as the example and not Pittsburgh. Now let's talk about Philadelphia indusrty. First off, industry is declining all over America, so most of what I am going to write here is historical in nature, but not all of it. Philadelphia was America's first truly industrial city. Sure Pittsburgh has steel, Detroit has cars, and Texas has oil. But Philadelphia has these plus a whole lot more. Philly did at one time have a few steel mills, they have since closed, but the old Bethlehem Steel mills in Coatesville and Conshohocken are still open, however under different ownership and scaled down production. Auto Production was alive in Philly via Packard Automobiles and Autocar Trucks. OIL? No there is none of the black stuff bubbling under the surface in Philly, but it is brought here from around the world to be refined. Sunoco, Atlantic Richfield, Gulf, MOBIL, BP, Conoco Phillips, CITGO, TEXACO, Getty and HESS have all had a refinery on the Delware River at one time. Sunoco has bought out the Texaco, Atlantic Richfield, and Gulf refineries and Sun still keeps them running today. Citgo, BP nad Hess have closed down while Valero now operates the Mobil and Getty refinery. The Delaware River, from Delware City DE to Philadelphia is the Nations 2nd largest crude refiner after only the Gulf of Mexico coast in the Southeast. After Katrina, the country turned to Philadelphia to pick up the slack in production. Good thing the refineries are hooked to the national pipeline system. In addition to crude refining, Philly is the Nations leader in petro-chemical research and production. Does the name Rohm and Haas ring any bells? Historically, Philadelphia has made a little of everything. She was never number one in any one product. Philly was bound to have a big industrial base, with her deep water ports and cheaper rates that made her competitive with New York and Baltimore.

Actually, I could go on but it's 3:45 in the morning and I got to work soon... I did'nt mean to beat on Pittsburgh, hey shes in PA so she's gotta be alright.... But there is no comparison... Different leagues... Philadelphia is the leagues with New York, Chicago, Houston. Pittsburgh is in the minors with the St. Louises and the Clevelands... (Hey you Baseball nuts, I'm not talking about baseball here.... just using leagues to make a point... So I don't want to hear that The Indians are in the Majors)

[Mebert 5]

Back in the 60's and 70's? Pittsburgh, all the way. There's nothing like a good factory town. But now that the mills have been reduced to hulks of metal that no one touches, I'd have to say Philadelphia.

[patriots_1228 51]

Pittsburg...no question. I got people there anyway...

Philly to me is like the rolling stones. It once was great, but now its just an old mess trying to look young. The skyline disgusts me, it looks like one of those ugly chinese skylines where none of the buildings fit together and Modern beautys and brought down by ugly pieces of concrete crap. The downtown center city is nice but theres no way to get to it because the entire circumference of downtown philly is covered in ghettos.

Pittsburg, on the other hand, may be a shadow of its former glory, but still remains physically attractive and has some stunning buildings. Asthetically it is 10x better, while it may be less important.

Also whats always bugged me about Philly is they claim to be the birthplace of America...Birth is when you first came into the world. America was born here. Philly was where it became an adult. Or you could call Philly the birthplace and Boston the Uterus...lmao....