Worst City Planning

[thepokemaniac 18]

Nick9099: Dang! I just looked at 'confusion corner' on google maps. It looks pretty bad, but i'm sure its worse in real life!

[thepokemaniac 18]

Durham, North Carolina

The Highways are everywhere and on and off ramps are mixed up. Some take you back where you started!

[xChicago 0]

Worst Planned Cities:

L.A <- HUGE Disaster. Cant get anywhere without a car

Houston <-so sprawled its sad

Phoenix <-...pathetic.

Worst Planned Metro Area:

Dallas/Fort Worth

[Sapulator 0]

New Jersey seems to be one of the worst-planned areas in the country! (I speak of northern NJ) - It has a few cities scattered throughout, but most of it is overflow - unplanned sprawl from NYC. So as a result, you have all these cities in NJ surrounded by randomness...i cant even describe it! Take the meadowlands area for example. Just west of Manhattan is Hudson county - Hoboken, Jersey City, etc. - Most of that is in a grid format, has its own light rail, and is very well planned out - in and of itself. But to the west of that, is un-developable wasteland (the meadowlands) - so NJ was forced to spread to the west of that....and here is where Newark and Paterson lie. They are originally independant cities in their own right. But as NYC and Hudson county got full, the commuters move out here, and building in the 1950's era was so rampant and hasty that roads were not planned out, residential areas were built next to factories, and traffic is terrible. The NJ Transit is very efficient, and is the only state-wide commuter train system in the country. But NJ would really benefit from expanding their subway system - PATH. If they could expand PATH north and west of Newark/JC, I think commuting would be much better. Oh, and because there are only 3 ways to get into manhattan (Holland, Lincoln tunnels, GWB), the millions of commuters have only 3 roads to take. BUILD ANOTHER BRIDGE!!!!!

[xChicago 0]

Originally posted by: Sapulator

New Jersey seems to be one of the worst-planned areas in the country! (I speak of northern NJ) - It has a few cities scattered throughout, but most of it is overflow - unplanned sprawl from NYC. So as a result, you have all these cities in NJ surrounded by randomness...i cant even describe it! Take the meadowlands area for example. Just west of Manhattan is Hudson county - Hoboken, Jersey City, etc. - Most of that is in a grid format, has its own light rail, and is very well planned out - in and of itself. But to the west of that, is un-developable wasteland (the meadowlands) - so NJ was forced to spread to the west of that....and here is where Newark and Paterson lie. They are originally independant cities in their own right. But as NYC and Hudson county got full, the commuters move out here, and building in the 1950's era was so rampant and hasty that roads were not planned out, residential areas were built next to factories, and traffic is terrible. The NJ Transit is very efficient, and is the only state-wide commuter train system in the country. But NJ would really benefit from expanding their subway system - PATH. If they could expand PATH north and west of Newark/JC, I think commuting would be much better. Oh, and because there are only 3 ways to get into manhattan (Holland, Lincoln tunnels, GWB), the millions of commuters have only 3 roads to take. BUILD ANOTHER BRIDGE!!!!!quote>

The reason for NJ's troubles is because the entire state became a suburb to NYC.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

I would agree that LA is bad because it's probably faster to walk there. Any european city with narrow streets and mad 21st Centry congestion is bad. From Australia, I'd have to say Sydney. The roads sprawl randomly and they are also narrow.

Melbourne is crap because there is only 1 main cross-town connection (The West Gate Bridge). This becomes a virtual parking lot in rush hour and 1 crash on it can stop traffic at Stud Road, Dandenong, 40km away.

[Z77 3]

personally i think my hometown of pekin illinois would be...its like they took a bunch of one way roads and stretched them the length of the city(all going the same direction) then chucked some random roads in there. so it takes about 30 minutes to get from down town to the shopping district. (Population....33,000) plus here in central illinois, we tend to take pride in our pothole ridden streets for some reason.....but the reason for the roads is until the 1940s, the main traffic to and from the town was by steamboat....

OH! i almost forgot...dont forget the speed limits....30 mph on main roads so that pedestrians dont have to run across the street.....

[Z77 3]

oh and btw.. for people ranting about washington D.C not having any skyscrapers, or having that 'urban feeling'....

it was because city law mandates that no building may be built taller than the washington monument. it helps glorify the monument and good ol' george washington if you will

plus anyway its an amazing city just how it is...why would you want a NYC for the nations capitol????

-end informative 'discussion'-

[SoltStan 0]

I'd say NYC and LA. So much smog, and unorginized

[RedImperator 16]

Originally posted by: SoltStan

I'd say NYC and LA. So much smog, and unorginizedquote>

Wait--New York is unorganized?  The city with the relentless grid from SoHo to the Harlem River?  And more grid in the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens?  THAT New York?  Unless you mean lower Manhattan or the Jersey suburbs, your criticism makes no sense.

As for Jersey: yes, New Jersey has been almost totally ruined by unplanned suburban development.  North Jersey got the worst of it, but in the Philadelphia area, western Camden county is a crudscape nightmare and until the housing crash stopped them, the developers were in the process of ruining Gloucester and Burlington counties, too.  Fortunately, SE Pennsylvania and New Castle County absorbed more of the suburban overspill from Philadelphia, and the Pine Barrens are protected state forest, ensuring SJ will always have wild, undeveloped land. 

Still, I wonder why Jersey gets so much crap from the rest of the country.  It's always either, "HURF HURF, JERSEY SMELLS", based on the refineries and chemical plants along the Turnpike up near Elizabeth, or else, "HURF HURF, JERSEY IS SPRAWLVILLE".  Well, yeah, Elizabeth does stink (I used to work in those refineries), but they also provide thousands of well-paying, blue-collar jobs--the kind of job you can't find in a lot of places anymore (I'll bet Michigan would welcome a few refineries with open arms right about now).  And yeah, we're a suburban crudscape, but guess what?  So is virtually every other part of the country with people in it.  I dare you to tell me the difference between a subdivision in Pasadena and a subdivision in Monmouth County.  The difference between Jersey and everywhere else is that we're so small and next to such big cities that the crudscape has metastisized from one end of the state to the other.

[John Kirby 1]

Originally posted by: thepokemaniac

Durham, North Carolina

The Highways are everywhere and on and off ramps are mixed up. Some take you back where you started! quote>

Durhams roadways are a huge mess, I was driving through there the other day and I thought the horror was never going to end.

[DCMetro34 577]

Originally posted by: John Kirby

Originally posted by: thepokemaniac

Durham, North Carolina

The Highways are everywhere and on and off ramps are mixed up. Some take you back where you started! quote>

Durhams roadways are a huge mess, I was driving through there the other day and I thought the horror was never going to end.

quote>

We've driven through Durham, coming back from the Outer Banks. Instead of going west like we should've, there were no signs for our road, so we ended up going to south east to Wilmington. Added an extra 2 hours to our drive.....

[redrummage 9]

Originally posted by: RedImperator

Originally posted by: SoltStan

I'd say NYC and LA. So much smog, and unorginizedquote>

Wait--New York is unorganized?  The city with the relentless grid from SoHo to the Harlem River?  And more grid in the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens?  THAT New York?  Unless you mean lower Manhattan or the Jersey suburbs, your criticism makes no sense.

As for Jersey: yes, New Jersey has been almost totally ruined by unplanned suburban development.  North Jersey got the worst of it, but in the Philadelphia area, western Camden county is a crudscape nightmare and until the housing crash stopped them, the developers were in the process of ruining Gloucester and Burlington counties, too.  Fortunately, SE Pennsylvania and New Castle County absorbed more of the suburban overspill from Philadelphia, and the Pine Barrens are protected state forest, ensuring SJ will always have wild, undeveloped land.  

Still, I wonder why Jersey gets so much crap from the rest of the country.  It's always either, "HURF HURF, JERSEY SMELLS", based on the refineries and chemical plants along the Turnpike up near Elizabeth, or else, "HURF HURF, JERSEY IS SPRAWLVILLE".  Well, yeah, Elizabeth does stink (I used to work in those refineries), but they also provide thousands of well-paying, blue-collar jobs--the kind of job you can't find in a lot of places anymore (I'll bet Michigan would welcome a few refineries with open arms right about now).  And yeah, we're a suburban crudscape, but guess what?  So is virtually every other part of the country with people in it.  I dare you to tell me the difference between a subdivision in Pasadena and a subdivision in Monmouth County.  The difference between Jersey and everywhere else is that we're so small and next to such big cities that the crudscape has metastisized from one end of the state to the other.

quote>

I tend to think the majority of South Jersey is rather nice (of course with the exception on dilapidated Camden).  The roads are generally easy to follow and getting to and from Philadelphia is easy.  Taking the ferry from Cape May to Lewes Delaware is enjoyable.

[tks3162001 3]

As a planner in Florida I would have to the North and Central Florida areas are pretty bad....the cities that many of you have mentioned are for the most part tame compared to Florida cities....we don't have very good alternate transportation methods and many of the planning codes are outdated. We don't have subways for good reason,  bus transportation is ineffecient at best, and rail transportation is non-existent for the most part. Not too metion the legislature recently watered down the growth management laws even further this year...so here comes more sprawl in the name of "jump starting the economy".

[petey32989 0]

YES (also in all caps to denote exasperation) boston is the WORST!!! honestly. i live in brooklyn, ny and driving there is a ***** because of the amt of traffic but i can't figure out boston for the life of me! and the motorists don't help - if you're turning left, half the time traffic the other direction wants you to go first and the other half of the time they take off like a rocket. either way, it always ends with people pissed off and honking. oh yeah and note to self, apparently honking in boston actually does denote anger unlike in brooklyn where it just means move your slow ass lol

[petey32989 0]

actually i personally think MSP's done a pretty awesome job with planning. besides the mentioned 169 lights at 494, which are still hell, and a little further down on 494 around france ave, it's not too bad anywhere. and the new 35W's gonna change everything.

but i only know the SW burbs, because i go to visit my parents who recently moved to Chanhassen. maybe things aren't so bright on the st paul side but honestly i'd have a hard time believing that because all the really heavy commuting goes to all the corporate HQ's both downtown and in bloomington.

oh yeah, just don't get stuck in any northbound lanes anywhere in the city on a friday afternoon in the summer. three words: cabins "up north". ha.

[petey32989 0]

my question is why would you park on a corner in paris? or anywhere in europe? or any tightly built city in the world for that matter? that's just asking for a clipping. not to say that he deserved it (nobody does), but he definitely should have seen it coming...

[MariusBleek 5]

when i went on vacation near santa domingo in the Dominican, i was astounded by their roads.....THERE ARE NO LANES! In fact there are no lines on the road at all except at stop lights. Oncomming traffic had to judge what a safe distance was to not cross into our half of the road.

It is a massive free for all to get space and come into the city. Our bus driver was a maniac, but i must say it was like riding a roller coaster.

[Fraghawk444 3]

Dallas has the wors planning in the world.

Sprawltown usa

Here is what dallas will look like in 200 years:

A more zoomed out picture:

No Further comments.

[The Bluejay 40]

Hmmmm.... Awful planning in my local town. Acres and acres of low density ugly 90's suburban houses in a root shape linked to only one main road (Like a stem with leaves, only about 100 leaves on a too thin stem) with massive front gardens that serve no purpose other than to be trashed by the local chavs. Plus, every single house looks exactly the same, it's impossible to find my friends house, for that matter, impossible to fine their particular leaf

You know planning is messed up when it tkaes 30 mins to drive through and 5 mins to walk through

England on the whole is okay, however, The road layout is mostly radial (I think thats it. Roads stretching out from the centre like from a roundabout?) with good inter-town public transport. The rail is very good, it's a shame Beeching blew half of it up. I think the victorian and edwardian suburbs had the right idea. Mediumly low density, with little to no front gardens and large back gardens with quite wide roads, close to railway stations.

[ScaryMonkey 0]

Damn, I'm no surprised no one's mentioned Tokyo yet... ten times bigger than most European cities with all the same "grew up organically" problems. Add to that:

1. TINY, narrow, curved streets which follow no logical pattern.

2. Streets do not have names

3. Addresses are assigned totally at random based on which house was built first

4. Multiple independent train companies with competing systems (although it does mean there's lots of mass transit)

Also there's loads and loads of ugly architecture, although I don't know if that counts as poor planning.

[ghurka 0]

I'm not new at Simtropolis, but this is my first message in the forum

I vote for Madrid, Spain

Wonderful subway system

but....

a horrible and crazy trafic in all the metropolitan area

[dodzi86 0]

I bet all of your nominated cities have their problems. However, my vote goes to Beirut, Lebanon.

I have lived there for 16 years and still go there from time to time. God knows I love that city, although it does have the worst planning I've ever seen (I live in Belgium today, and every city I see here have good urban planning), even compared to other Lebanese cities!

I know that history has a lot to do with it, but almost 20 years after the end of the civil war, it is still bad!

1- Plan? There is no plan, it's all improvised without real study (I'm guessing if studies have been done, the first one isn't very old.

2- No real public transport system: no train network in Lebanon, no subway or tramway system (althouth trains and tramways did exist before the civil war), there are a couple of bus lines, both private and public, and while they do follow a specific trajectory, they are uncoordinated (no efficient transit network), they stop anywhere they see potential passangers (bus stops are useless), they don't have time-tables, they compete with each other (which means if 2 busses of the same line are one behind the other, they will try to take as many as possible from the other driver. It also means that if the bus is empty, it'll stop for 10-20 minutes at a certain intersection to get more passangers), and they only serve important areas (subburbs are totally unserved)...

3- Traffic system sucks: no efficient public transport network means everybody takes his own car. A city with a lack of space, inhabited by 1.5 million people, plus more people coming in to work everyday... Highways, avenues, all are inefficient, and everyday, one has to deal with an hour of driving for what is supposed to take no more than 20 minutes if the roads were empty!

4- No green areas. There are only two very small parks in Beirut, a couple of trees... Green spaces are always destroyed to build new buildings...

5- Unregulated building: when someone builds a building, he doesn't respect a certain code, laws, etc. Just build! There's no too high, too ugly, to unethical or esthetic...

6- Historic monuments are not respected. On many occasions, when building, people discover ancient ruins. The entire city center (rebuilt in the 1990s) is built on a big number of ancient ruins, from the Phenician, Greek, Roman, Byzantin, Crusadors and Ottoman times, but the PM just ordered the building to go faster than planned to cover the entire thing...

But I still love this city!

[zahrul3 472]

Jakarta

I have been here may times to visit relatives, and traveling there is a hassle

Here's why:

1. The airport highway that actually runs below the sea level around it(storms and over flooded shrimp farms spill on the road), making it flooded in 30 cm of water

2. Simply bad management. A railway line was constructed for commuters. Unfortunately, the developers had no money to get rid of a traditional market, so they simply 'cut' through it, with villagers and peasants doing business in danger of being crushed by fast commuter trains.

3. Dirty villages and clogged sewers; There are no incentives to keep the working-class areas clean. causing the entire city sewers to be dirty and eventually clogged.

4. Bad traffic; they simply hop into the busway line(making it congested and the busway out of schedule)

5. Lack of safe public green areas; most green areas are in walled communities and the public spaces are full of pranks.

[edwarjo89 4]

OK, lol... i've lived in jersey almost my whole life(south jersey that is, the nicer end.. actually right on the beach) but any ways i love jersey and hate it wen ppl bad mouth us, btw those guido loud--mouthed a**-w***** are from either far north jersey or ny and aren't true new jerseyens! but even tho i love jersey i have to say that the traffic planning is the worst in the country!!! i mean come on, "jug-handles" they're a joke, and if u dont kno wut one is i'll explain: if you want to make a left turn u have to pass the light you wanted to turn at, yeild right, go around a loop that puts u onto the street that crosses the one u were just on then wait at the light and hope that if its winter the sensor caught your car(or else the light will never change) and if it didn't u have to back up and pull back up to the light and hope the light changes!!! then u can proceed in the direction u wanted to go in... but the funny thing is every once in a while u do get a left tuurn lane but by the time u realize this ur in ur right lane looking for signs for the correct jug-handle. so you keep going to the next jug handle make a u-turn(which are illegal at most spots) and double back! but i have to say jersey light rock... green means go, red means stop, but yellow means well who cares keep going. u see our yellow light are like 2 - 3 times longer than most otheer places. and anotheer thing is there are NO street lamps any where but to many cars on thee road to use ur highbeams.... and one more thing Does route 9 HAVE to be single laned through Tuckerton?!?!??!?! my god judt drivving to walmart is a pain in the ass especially wen all the bennies and shoobies come to town... have u ever sat at a light while it changes 4 times b4 u can actually get through it??? an sll the buildings are historical landmarks so its nearly IMPOSSABLE to wwiden thee road! not that the city councle would approve that any was cuz they're to worried about the damn duck and decoy show!!! lol sry i'm ranting but yea jersey traffic sucks. but the people are cool. OH and only people who learned to drive in jersey can actually drive good! AND PLEASE!!!! USE UR DAMN TURN SIGNALS PEOPLE!!! i hate out of state drivers lol... and remember i'm from jersey, i dont pump my gas... i pump my fists! thanks for listening haha

[alexcheetah 35]

I don't know If anyone has mentioned this yet but I think Mississauga, a Toronto suburb is the worst city.

I mean it would be easy to say any suburb of Toronto is a bad city but Mississauga is the worst since because they keep on proudly announcing that they're a 'city' yet there is absolutely no concept of urban planning whatsoever since the city has been building nothing but sprawl and shopping malls for the last 30 or so years.

The only part of Mississauga that could be called urban is it's 'city center' whch looks like a city with it's numous condo under construction and office towers they're all built around a giant shopping mall with miles of parking lots and not the traditional building up to the curb.

I also don't understand why people are so proud of the mayor, I mean sure it has 700,000 people but that's because it's so close to toronto, and sure it has parks and ravenes but after hurricane hazel, who would want to build a house next to a river?

[Deathcat001 8]

 Ok guys id have to say Jakarta is porberly the worst but this is a good runner up 

Athens Greece 

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=Athens&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Athens,+Greece&ll=37.978845,23.720856&spn=0.065896,0.110207&z=13

Some parts follow the basic Grid but The mast majority is one way roads everywhere.. 

Also with a population of 4 million the city gets extremely crowded easily through to lack of highway systems.

[Da_Nuke 0]

I know the two opposite ends of the spectrum. On the disorganized planning, you have Guadalajara, Mexico. On the good planning, you have

[dementyev 2]

Orlando has a privately owned and operated bus system, and it is not very effective due to crappy coverage and long route intervals. When gas prices start peaking over $10/gal (it'll happen soon enough) this whole area is going to be doomed because cars are the only effective way to get around.

Then again in 100 years a third or so of the state will be submerged. Drinkable water is also relatively scarce here and barely a single aspect of the local economy is sustainable. In sum most of Florida was and is a stupid place to build anything.

[Nick9099 2]

thepokemaniac: indeed.  look at the signs approaching from the south on osborne street

great, isn't it!