the use NAM makes of menu

[Citizen Sim 0]

I'm just a $%&^! and reading about the cluttered menu's that are causing so much aggrevation,(getting there myself now...) and that there are no easy solutions. But is there?

I was wondering how the NAM team did the single Icon submenu's you can scroll through using tab. I thought that was very useful, imagine every NAM piece in the menu; disaster!

So I know the knowledge is there, it should just be applied to such things as peg's streamkit and the canalsets. Probably all the seperate packs need updating, not a general patch. 

What do yall think?

[prince_of_sims 0]

unfortunately, i was told that the TAB rings can only be applied to network pieces.

[Citizen Sim 0]

network pieces or the network menu?...I guess you must be right otherwise all of this would've been done already.

[prince_of_sims 0]

yeah, i asked about this a while back when the new NAM first came out with the TAB rings. i was told that for a piece to be included in a TAB ring the core RUL file of the NAM would need to be modified, and it would need to be modified everytime a new version came out. i think i was told that it's possible to put non-network lots in the rotation rings. but think about it: with the hundreds of lot sets out there, is it really practical to go through and edit each lot in each set to be included in a TAB ring, only to have to repeat the same process with each new NAM?

[Citizen Sim 0]

well....it might be very handy for some things to be included that are used by alot of members...like the trafficsign, trail, pond and canal packages. If I think that NAM basically "hijacked" this feature, would I be right?...LOL NAM as the microsoft of the SC4 community

[jplumbley 5]

Hi Citizen Sim,

NAM didnt "hijack" this feature because it in the first place was only available to transportation items (puzzle pieces). Unfortunately single lots like stations arent able to be put into a rotation ring, well atleast I dont think so. And then if you can the user themselves would have to do mod thier own lots because not everyone has the same lots.

The problem is that all of the construction set files would have to be made into a transport puzzle piece of some sort before they can be put into a rotation ring. This would be a good idea for some things but not others. I have seen a thread by I think Goaskin who was experimenting with the canals and pond packs to make a water taxi mod with them. If he can get it to work maybe then it would be possible to put them into a rotation ring but dont hold your breath. That mod hasnt even made it past experimentation. Also, another idea might be to allow pedestrian traiffic on the trail lots, but this again would take alot of modding for just getting them to handle pedestrian traffic, and then even more to make into a rotation ring.

I hope this helps a little bit.

JPlumbley

[toxicpiano 125]

There is no way that you can have rotation things on anything other than puzzle pieces. It is impossible, and noone is prepared to try and make it possible.

[jplumbley 5]

That's basically what i was trying to say toxicpiano. But, it is possible to mod those lots into a a puzzle piece... but it is too much work.

[qurlix 20]

Well, I can't blame you for saying that the NAM team did sort of "hijack" the rotation rings and pretty much all of the RUL files...but they really didn't have a choice, as the game only recognizes one copy of each file. Of course, considering modding ability, I'd be willing to say 90% of the people who are able to edit rotation rings and const layouts either have been or are currently on the NAM team.

GoaSkin currently is still experimenting with the canal pieces, but they are not lots but totally puzzle pieces. At last update they seemed to nearly be completed, as both traffic and automata were working correctly, but there has not been recent talk of release in the NAM. Of course it's not a matter of "if" so much as "when".

It is true that you can only put network items (puzzle pieces and interchanges) in rotation rings. Now someone brought up hybrid lot-network pieces...well it's sort of possible to create such items, but very little research has been put into it. I don't know if anyone else has conducted research, but I have experimented a bit with applying lot properties to network items. The NAM team has not officially discussed it, but hybrid items are pretty clearly breaking three key NAM content guidelines: "No lots," "Limited personal selectivity of content," and "Organized and condensed content". So for that matter they are temporarily considered out of the question. Either way, should research come to fruition by an independent team, it would not include hybrid versions of regular lots purely for menu shortening; it would only be used for acheiving effects or properties not possible with regular lots. Which so far have been found to not yet exist.

Thankfully, ingenious scripters came up with the MML technique which is rapidly incresing in popularity. Notice that I didn't call it a mod, because it isn't a single modification, rather a method to acheive an effect. But that doesn't mean the creators weren't top-class modders who deserve shrines.

-qurlix

[Citizen Sim 0]

sounds like it's easier to program a whole a new game.....enough artists around, some good programmers too methinks...  hmmm could be the greatest game of all time

[Andreas Roth 639]

qurlix explained the issue very clearly, so I don't have to add much. Of course it would be great to have rotation rings for lot sets, but it's not really practical at least. The MML technique is the closest what we were able to implement for reducing the number of menu icons, and I must say it serves me pretty well. Of course it takes some time to select the individual lots by clicking on the menu buttons every other time, but then again, using puzzle pieces for the GLR network is quite tedius as well (although there might be the chance to make them draggable sometimes in the future). But using the one technique or the other - the fact is that Maxis simply haven't thought of the possibility that so many custom items would have been created over the time. IMO, the best would be to have dialogue boxes like we had in SC2000, i. e. for the power plants (or like the bridge selection dialogue in SC4 Rush Hour). Hopefully, SC5 will have this feature, but for now, we have to stick to the things that are available now...

[vester_DK 477]

Well lets hope that EA, will give the source code free, so we could modifed the code for the menu.

[Citizen Sim 0]

Originally posted by: vester_DK Well lets hope that EA, will give the source code free, so we could modifed the code for the menu.quote>

 

LOL if they did that, SC5 would evolve by itself, just imagine!

Andreas and qurlix thanks for your explanations, it is pretty clear to me now.....nice to meet you both too

Bas

[Karybdis 34]

Short technical answer is that rotation rings are stored in a file we call 'Cell intersection Rul', or just 'intersection rul/ini'. Its designed to be able to search through network pieces, and happens to contain the network rotation ring code which rotates by piece id. Applying it to things outside the game has bad results:

For instance, anyone heard of the crash caused sometimes with transit enabled pieces? The game doesn't know how to handle hybrids, and goes into an infinite loop while trying to rotate them.

[sirgeoj2 1]

I know its been quite a few months since this topic has been posted to, (I havn't been here in a while but I always try and make time to come to simtropolis at least once in a while.  This is a big issue cause once you have alot of plugins it takes you like 10 minutes to scroll down to the lower plugins on the list (well, im exaggerating).  But I was thinking, is it possible to instead of having that arrow, making a scroll bar that you can use to 'slide' instead of waiting for that arrow to scroll you down?  I know, its prob. a stupid question, its only something that can be programmed into the game itself, but there are alot of talented ppl out there that have found ways around things, so I just thought I would throw that idea in. 

[Andreas Roth 639]

Since we don't have access to the source code (yet), that's impossible, unfortunately. You know, the problem doesn't exist only since yesterday. The modding gurus put a lot of effort in researching this issue, but without much luck. To speed up scrolling, you can use your mouse wheel, once the cursor hovers over the menu, but that's the best you can expect from faster scrolling. Another possibility is to use the BSC Menu Management Lot (MML) Mod, which will hide certain icons, until they are really needed. Everything else: no chance...