RAM usage quick question

[Michael1980 0]

Does RAM taken up by SC4 depend on the city loaded or is it always going to be Main game + Plugins folder?<br />Trying to see how much plugin data I can download before I max out my 1.25gb of RAM.<br />Thanks

[tungston 19]

The memory is used for the computations the game makes, and the stores of new additions to the city, mainly. The size of the plugin folder would not be a good guage of the memory used, as not everything in the folder is loaded into the game [memory].

Some data will be stored in the swap file.

[Michael1980 0]

That is interesting.

So is the population of the city correlated with the physical memory used?

Like now, I have some 500mb free with a city of 60k, would a 700k city take up all the ram completely?

[Buster 9]

I'm wondering about this too. Does the size of the region matter, or just the size of any one city that is loaded at one time?

[Michael1980 0]

Actually I am wondering about the size of the city. Logically thinking, size of the region should not impact RAM since nothing is going on in region view.

[Indisguise 0]

basicly simcity4 hogs all the RAM it can under most cases CPU proccesssing also....it's a hog, it wants it all, any time I try to multi task while the game is running....everything lags...even ST chat or pages loading in the threads

I've learned to deal with this and come to the conclusion...if your going to play the game, don't surf the net unless you have a dualcore processor or a computer with fantastic spec...your asking for trouble

I don't believe you can narrow down how much a particular city will use up by just it's population (though the higher a city or region pop is...the more the game seems to require) There are too many other factors including plugins...graphic settings...your page setting, talk to N_OBody about setting them correctly ( he seems to be the master in the area)or search the bugs and  tech issues forums for more info on it

[Millionaire2K 0]

I don't think that is true. I play SC4 all the time while doing other tasks. The city I play with has 1.2 Million people and everything on my pc still runs fine. This site included.

The most SC4 has ever used of my sys memory is 1384mb.  I have a total of 2gb.

[prince_of_sims 0]

there are several processes in SC4 that take up RAM. FYI, ALL plugins in the plugin folder are loaded into the RAM at initial load. why is that? because if a plugin is a mod, it's automatically loaded. if it's a mod, it's loaded so it can be put into the menus. at initial load time, ALL plugins are loaded. if your system doesn't have enough RAM, these values are written to the page file. when these values are read from the hard drive and brought into the RAM, SC4 can get really sluggish if you have a standard IDE hard drive because of their data transfer speed.

yes, population values crime rates, etc. etc. are all in the RAM. but once again, if you don't have a lot of RAM, the game will write these values into the Page File provided you have a big enough one. the problem with this is that these values need to be accessed so often the hard disk usage of reading them from the page file, clearing RAM, writing them to the RAM, and then clearing RAM again makes the game sluggish.

as for the processes like pathfinding and stuff, most of that is done by the processor. but, if your processor can't handle enough functions at a time, these functions are temporarily stored in the RAM till the processor can get to them. so SC4 taxes even your processor.

additionally, if you don't have enough graphics power, SC4 will rely on your CPU as well as your GPU, causing even more lag. running a large city on High on a 1.8 GHz machine with 512 RAM and a integrated GFX chip will prove extremely sluggish.

so in short, SC4 taxes your CPU, RAM, and your GPU, as well as a few other parts of your system. how much it taxes each depends entirely on your system configuration, city size (including population), the plugin folder size, and graphics detail.

[tungston 19]

Not everything in the "plugins" folder is a plugin.

[prince_of_sims 0]

true, but the game loads everything at initial load time, throws out what's not a plugin, and keeps the rest.

[tungston 19]

So, even if you knew what you were talking about, that would mean that it was not taking up memory, right?

[prince_of_sims 0]

if you read the original post that i made, i said that at initial load time the game loads all files in the plugins folder. i've put in a 2GB ISO file into mine and the got a 20 minute load time. without the file, i was down to 5 minutes. so i do know what i'm talking about when i say the game loads everything in the plugins folder at initial load time, regardless of the extension. i don't know if these files stay in memory or not, but i doubt it. after the initial loading lag, my game seemed to run as it normally does.

so yes, in a sense it is not taking up memory, if it is indeed true these files are scrapped from the memory after initial load. but it is still taking up memory at initial load.

P.S. - i've heard stories conflicting to mine about putting in non-plugin files into the plugins folder. i think it was you who did a test similar to mine and came up with different results. so the initial load problem may be depended on on the system as it seems to vary from person to person.

[tungston 19]

The game looks at the file extension, to determine with file is relevent, it will ignore extensions like .txt, .zip, .htm, .jpg and a host more. There are maybe 4 or so file extensions it looks for. I have no idea of the size of my plugins folder, but there are over 60 folders, and subfolders.

No, I have never done a test to see what loads into memory, I know of no possible way you could see that. The time it takes the game to load would be affected by the size of the region that loads first, but that would not be much.

Do you know what an ISO file is? I can guarantee the game did not load it. ISO files are disc images that are used to write CD/DVD's.

If you have program that reports memory usage, like Norton, you could go though that to see how much memory each program is using at any one time.

[prince_of_sims 0]

i do know what an ISO file is. the reason i used it is because that was the biggest file i had existing on my hard drive. if the game didn't load it, how do you explain the fact that i got a loading time of 20 minutes with it in the plugins folder?

i will take your suggestion and look at memory usage logs for SC4.exe when i try the test again. but like i've said, i've seen and heard of different results from different people who ran the same type of tests.

anyways, other than personal reasons, i dont know why we're continuing this discussion in this thread. it's not like the load time actually affects game play.

[tungston 19]

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing personal about our disscusions. But if you contradict me with erroneous statements, expect me to stand up for what I know.

I have followed your post for over a year, and you have some good ideas, but the one you stated above is not one of them.

[cogeo 960]

The game will attempt to load everything under the plugins folder at load time. It does NOT look at the file extension, so .dat, .sc4lot etc files are treated the same as .zip, .jpg etc. It actually opens every file, checks if it's a valid DBPF file, and if yes it loads it, otherwise it scraps it. This is why the .sav or .bak files (backups of the tools) sometimes forgotten and posted to the STEX in plugins, can prove harmful (cause conflicts).

Non-plugin files (.htm, .jpg, .zip etc) files under the plugins folder consequently cause a load-time, but I don't know how much; it would be interesting if someone measures it.

Another point, the plugins files remain opened after loading.

Items not used at runtime (eg non-instantiated BATs) theoretically stay in the swap file and cause no additional swapping. However this is only in theory, as the minimum item the computer can swap is a memory page, and a memory page may contain multiple SC4 objects, or a SC4 object may be stored in more than one memory pages, ie the organisation of memory pages does not exactly correspond to the organisation of SC4 objects, so this is something the user cannot affect.

Thus the only practical advices that can be given to players are:

- Move the documentation files under the STEX_Downloads folder. This may reduce load time, though it's unknown how much.

- Delete some old, useless and forgotten plugins. Also delete old individual prop pack files if you are using the mega-packs they have been included into.

- Consider incresing the swapfile size (esp if the game fails to load). The memory available to applications is the virtual memory, not the physical one.

- If you have a second newer/faster HD, consider configuring your system so that the swapfile is created there, this will make your computer faster. It is also highly recommended that you deftrag the HD or volume that will host the swapfile (before changing the swapfile settings). You may need to run the defrag utility several times before the volume is really OK (and despite if it tells you that no defrag is required), you should see large contigous free areas.

- The physical memory should be upgraded if you notice much HD activity.

[SC4BOY 20]

Oh for pete's sake,.., it's pretty well known that SC4 absolutely parses EVERY FILE IN THE PLUGIN FOLDER.. It doesn't "dismiss it" if it doesn't have the right extension. It assumes that what you put in the plugin folder  is relevant.. it grinds trought each and every file and gleans the relevant info (even to the point of overwriting stuff it has loaded before).. the end result is a memory load built of the final result.. So the advice to keep your plugin folder clean is excellent advice, even if the final memery size isn't affected. And further SC4 is not the most bulletproof program I've known either.. so why not remove "temptation"?. Who wants to wait for a load time when it isn't necessary.. most people aren't into waiting.. But as also pointed out, it SHOULDN"T affect whether SC4 loads or not, but as I said, SC4 seems to careen on two wheels too often.. why push it?

Also, when SC4 fails, it isn't very graceful.. and it is often painful to try to figure out what the problem is.. and it can fail for MANY reasons.. why add one more?

Edit: Ahh.. good points cogeo.. looks like we simul-posted.. hehe

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, I think that just about beats this horse to death.  Even though every file is opened, the parse only need to look at the first sector of a file and I hope that's what happens.  Otherwise, I think it would be a lot slower loading.  I try to keep everytning that is not a game file out of my plugins.  Unfortunately, having the NAM installed, the person who wrote the installer was a little lazy and put the .htm files in the Plugins folder.  Not a big deal.

[Bones1 96]

I have run tests on what the game loads in the plugin folder, and I can positively state that it does NOT keep non-game files (such as jpegs and zips) in memory. It does appear to look at them to see what they are, which increases initial loading time, but it does NOT increase memory usage.

Sorry to be blunt, but people who claim otherwise have obviously not tested it.