Building Log: World Trade Center (Pre-9/11)

[yk322 1]

Thank You Rubik it looks great,cant wait to put it in already.

[rubik3 118]

The first release will probably just include the 2 towers and the plaza, but I do still plan on doing 3-6.  I might do 7 but it was across the street and wouldn't fit in with the whole lot.  I'll post some pics when I get further along with them and, if all goes well tomorrow, i'll probably have the first release sometime next week.

[DoubleJ2K 3]

Drew, I have seen it. In my mind, it's still Libeskind's eyesore. I really dislike Childs' design for the Freedom Tower as well as 7 WTC. And the so-called memorial is even more atrocious. 9/11 was a horrible tragedy, I believe we call all agree on that. But, in my mind, there will never be any better memorial than having those two towers rise up again in Lower Manhattan, even better than they were before. Here's the deal, the WTC was 16 ACRES! The Plaza alone was 5 acres. Now, you guys tell me, why could there not be a memorial where the Plaza was and rebuild 1-6 WTC, as they were? I would be moved much more by a memorial at the WTC Plaza, literally standing in the center of where everything came down, having those buildings rising like a phoenix. Anyhoo, many thanks again to Rubik for recreating the Twin Towers so we can all remember.

NOTE: For anyone interested in the rebuilding process and what is taking place, check out www.teamtwintowers.org.

[n74704 21]

well, i'm sorry you feel that way.

 

i actually like the new plans for the WTC.  i remember watching a documentary on the WTC before 9-11.  the plans for it, the construction, the critisism.

 

everyone in the city of New York hated these towers.  they were built in a time where the city was going bankrupt.  businesses were leaving, landlords were burning thier properties because no-one would move into the dilapidated structures.  this was a time after the destruction of Penn Station, one of the wonders of the modern world.  this was a time in which old historic buildings were easily being replaced with glass boxes.  this was a horrible time in the history of new york.

 

when the plans for the WTC were unveiled, they were spat upon.  the worst form of architecture the world has ever seen. some said.  the massive buildings sybolized the urban-development movement, in which you suck all of the life out of a city by destroying old architecture and replace it with stagnant boxes where people live and work.

 

after they were completed, they sat empty for many years.  after all - they were vertical real-estates for bussiness.  the city's budget for the towers was over a million in debt and because the city didn't earn any money off of the buildings, they collapsed the city government.  New York had to ask the Federal Goverment to bail them out.

 

it took a high-wire artist to humanize the towers.  one morning, a french high-wire artist danced between the towers at the top and attracted the city of NY at the ground floor.  the frenchman did a routine repeatedly and was apprehended by the NYPD when he returned back to the tower.  the mayor of NY ended up bailing him out and gave him private access to the observation deck of tower 1.  this event showed the city that these buildings are more than what they seem.  And slowly, NY began to adopt the towers into their everyday lives.

 

The towers didn't make any money until 15 years after thier completion.  when NY hit a boom, the city could take it because of the available office space in the towers.  The twin towers were considered a failure.  they did not do what they were supposed to do until a decade and a half later after they were completed.

 

The plaza was the worst part of the design.  this concrete monstrosity killed all life out of the towers.

 

At the twin tower dedication, in the late 70's, the architect didn't show up.  after the comlpletion, he erased those towers from his mind.  only on his deathbed did he request to see the towers and his plaza.  he thought of them as a failure.  as the rest of the world did.

 

_______________________

 

This new design is avoding the mistakes of the past.  Child's freedom tower is a wonderful piece of architecture and will find its way into ever Ney Yorker's heart.  and the newly proposed memorial is perfect.  falling water is the best way to reflect on something.  the memorial will separate you from the outside world and will let you remember without being disturbed by outside influences.  And the city isn't the bustling hub of the world anymore.

 

it isn't right to rebuild the towers as they were (in real life, not SC4 rubik).  as it was said earlier, let the sleeping dog lie.  the towers are gone.  it would be disrespectful to bring them back.  we just have to move on.

 

 

all this info is fact BTW.  if you have ever seen the documentary series New York, you know where i got my info from.

 

 

 

a lot happened in 30 years.  you have to know the whole history before you make such statements.  the new work will fit NY's skyline perfectly.

[kid_a 1]

pfft n00bie architect.

In 1976 (or 1974) when the towers had opened up the observation deck the towers became an instant NY attraction virtually overnight, and when they opened windows on the world in the 1970's it became a landmark restaurant. Yet you're telling us the tower's didn't make money till 15 years after? I guess all the tenants paid no rent.

Yes, i've seen the documentary too.

How can you explain the plaza was dead, considering when in the 1990s it became largly populated with visitors from all walks of life?

The architecht you refer to wasn't the architecht at all. You're referring to Austin Toban, whom was the head of the port authority. Minoru Yamasaki was the architecht.

Taking perspective into childs and Liebskind's ideas The new tower virtually sucks, it has no great architechture in it. Heck, there's no open observation deck to actually attract visitors, what's up with that? There's no room to hold any concerts like the old wtc did. The only way it's going to attract tourism is because the old WTC stood there. I find the design but ugly and a swift kick in the nuts to all New Yorkers, If you practically visit any other architectual forums everyone agree's themselves. It's just a 2,000 foot glass tombstone with stupid windmills and lattice at the top which no function can come from. Dear God, what have we come to.

[rubik3 118]

In 1976 (or 1974) when the towers had opened up the observation deck the towers became an instant NY attraction virtually overnight, and when they opened windows on the world in the 1970's it became a landmark restaurant.  Yet you're telling us the tower's didn't make money till 15 years after?

 

An observation deck and a restaurant won't make a building profitable.  It's the large companies that rented whole floors in the boom of the late 80's that brought the building out of the red.  Though the lobster dinners helped, it wasn't enough to offset the millions and millions of dollars it cost to build.

 

How can you explain the plaza was dead, considering when in the 1990s it became largly populated with visitors from all walks of life?

 

In the 90's yes, it became a tourist attraction.  But the 15 years before that it was just considered a waste of space and a concrete eyesore.  Without the thousands of daily tourists the 90's brought, it really was a dead space.

 

pfft n00bie architect.

 

Please take the attitude elsewhere.  This thread is for the re-creation and the rememberance of 2 great buildings and the people who perished inside, not for petty arguing.  Debate the new design all you want just leave the personal attacks at the door.

[n74704 21]

The architecht' you refer to wasn't the architecht at all. You're referring to 'Austin Toban', whom was the head of the port authority. Minoru Yamasaki was the architecht.

Taking perspective into 'childs and Liebskind's ideas' The new tower virtually sucks, it has no 'great architechture' in it. Heck, there's no open observation deck to actually attract visitors, what's up with that? There's no room to hold any 'concerts' like the old wtc did. The only way it's going to attract tourism is because the old WTC stood there. I find the design but ugly and a swift kick in the 'nuts' to all New Yorkers, If you practically visit any other architectual forums everyone agree's themselves. It's just a 2,000 foot glass tombstone with stupid 'windmills' and lattice at the top which no function can come from. Dear God, what have we come to.


thanks for the support Rubik.

yes you're absolutley right. it was Austin Tobin and the Port Authority. names were slipping in my mind when i wrote this.

as for the design, you're right again. it is a large shard of glass that serves no function but to be pretty. Would you have rather had the open-air cylinders with rooms suspended in mid-air? in this WTC design commitee, they had to please everyone in the U.S. on this project. this wasn't a time to re-invent architecture and create something the world has never seen. This was a time to pull out the generic year 2000 designs and slap a name like freedom on the title. If you really look back at the original twin towers, they weren't anything incredible. for god's sake, they were two tall, grey boxes with no detail whatsoever. NY will adopt the new freedom tower eventually. this is simple, pleasing architecture that everyone in the world can enjoy. not just architecture buffs.

look at the modern scrapers that are going up in the world. WFC in china. a simple box with a hole at the top. London. cylinder with a dome on top. Freedom tower. large triangle aimed towards the sky.


i haven't seen great architecture in a long time. and with this new trend, i probably won't see anything until architecture is re-invented. what we want now is something simple and shiny.

[rubik3 118]

i haven't seen great architecture in a long time.  and with this new trend, i probably won't see anything until architecture is re-invented.  what we want now is something simple and shiny.

 

I'll second that thought.  Actually there is some great architecture coming out of the Middle East and is perhaps the only new style of architecture in the past 10 years.  Buildings like the Burj al Arab and the Petronas Towers have really brought Arab designs into the mainstream.

 

If you really look back at the original twin towers, they weren't anything incredible.  for god's sake, they were two tall, grey boxes with no detail whatsoever.

 

Well they started off being mediocre but as the years went by they did become incredible.  Personally I loved how the buildings fit in with the skyline of Manhatten.

 

When it comes to large buildings I'd rather have a big concrete mass then a glass tower that looks like it would blow over in the wind.  Concrete, granite, stone all give the impression of permanence while these huge glass structures look fragile and weak.  And as we all know New Yorkers are not fragile nor weak.  The people of New York deserve a building that represents their strength and determination, not that glass 'freedom tower' which does nothing but remind me of the fragility and sense of fear this country had on 9/11.

 

 

[Woulfe 1]

Here... Here...

The more I look at the 'Replacemet' the more I like the original buildings that occupied the space, sure they were 'Simplistic' but perhaps that's why they fit into NYC's skyline so well....

Of all the skylines in the world NYC's is the most easily reconized as there's just a certain senery to it, the original WTC bulidings added to that senergy, the replacement will be a distraction from that senergy, giveing the skyling a rather oddball look....

I base this on computer renderings of the skyline from NJ from the same location as possibly one of the most famous photographs of the NYC skyline w/ the old WTC there, it just seems disjointed with the new WTC there, like they tossed together something verry un-new-york-like in the middle of Lower Manhattan....

The problem I have & well as folks who actually live there do i'm sure, is that we all view NYC's skyline as a whole, not just this buliding or that buliding, but an entire collection of bulidings that give it that instant 'Hey That's New York, Isn't It ?' look & feel....

The 'replacement' screams 'Hey Look At Me, I Don't Belong Here' feeling as it stands out TOO much from the rest of the skyline as a whole, the old WTC never did that, it just blended right in as if it was allways ment to be there....

Speaking of which, if anyone has any issue w/ this project....

No one is twisting your arm to download them....

This is a verry personal projest & shows signs of care & attention to detail as ever square inch of the WTC in all it's glory is recreated, not an easy task as i'm sure a lot of things have been lost over time, like details of what was on each & every floor of them & so on, but you have to give credit were credit is due, this more than any other project has had both it's supporters & it's nay-sayers, but thank goodness he didn't listen to the nay-sayers as the supporters outnumbered them & continue to tell him to go right ahead & keep reaching that goal of a nearly perfect recreation of what was once there on that site in Lower Manhattan....

Besides I personaly think that once we see them in the game we will be speechless

Woulfe

P.S. I visited NYC way back in the middle of the 80's & have a fond memory of standing on top of the South Tower the world far below me, the sky so close one feels that all you have to do is reach out & you'd touch it, I wanted so bad to go there again, but at night, alas now that they're gone i'll never have that chance, ever....

[n74704 21]

i am all for the project.  don't get me wrong.  i remember going to NY and taking a picture of the towers.  it was funny cause they were so tall, you had to lie on your back on a hill to get the full building.  i still have that pic...

 

anyways, yes.  the new design does not fit in with the skyline.  but the skyline might change, you never know.  if you look at London, the skyline is changing rapidly and the old stone structures are being replaced with new glass structures.  everything is moving back into the glass and steel buildings of the post-modern era.  this trend of inexpensive structures is taking hold in many cities.

 

when i said - i haven't seen any great architecture recently, i lied.  now that i look at the China Bank Tower up close, i see it is an incredible piece of work.  the angles, the simple complexity.  it is a wonderful form of modern architecture, maybe the only wonderful form.

[kid_a 1]

I agree, by the way, sorry to anyone whom may have been offended by my previous post. Not to make excuses, but i've just caught the flu and have a short patience level, etc. You know how it is. =\

I agree that the new tower doesn't even resemble NY what-so-ever, it looks almost out of place, like it belongs somewhere else, not the great island of manhattan.

Rubik, how are things coming with the towers?
If anyone doesn't mind, when I get the stupid gmax installed (keeps giving me errors) and the BAT that was released, i'll take a shot at building the WTC 7 building. Perhaps if it goes that well, maybe the Deutsch Bank, and the WFC. Who knows. It's a goal

Um, yeah...

There was another thing I wanted to add, but my mind draws a blank at the moment, so I will just leave it at that for now.

[cammo2003 20]

Those memorials are awesome.

 

I must also chime in with my support for this project and the meaning behind it.

 

I will most likely download this... When I was younger, I always wanted to travel to NY and go up those buildings. (We could never have afforded it in my family, and in fact, going over to the US is still out of reach). I was up late at night watching this happen - I just happened to finish watching a video and switched over to the TV to see the first one hit. as it was actually happening (I'm in Australia just so you know).

 

I hope to visit the US some day though.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/4.gif>

 

 

 

[rubik3 118]

Well it will still be a while until the release of the towers.  Unfortunately the BAT has problems that need to be fixed before I can finish up.  If you look at the image below you can see that the shadows stop about halfway up...not good to say the least.

 

[Smurfer2 7]

All hail the awsome looking towers!https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif>

[kid_a 1]

Pretty cool, do you have AIM that I can contact you with? I have a few things I want to discuss about this.

[4Finger 7]

With all respect for your art... GET THIS BABY FINNISHED ASAP!!

[rubik3 118]

Kid- I don't use AIM but you can reach me by pm if you don't want to post your comments here.

 

With all respect for your art... GET THIS BABY FINNISHED ASAP!!

 

Patience grasshopper.  When they're released they will be perfect...as of right now they're not there yet.

[rubik3 118]

I got my lighting problem fixed and have a better render of one world trade...images of the plaza coming soon.

 

 

[wolverine 12]

That rendering looks awesome. Great work! I can't wait until this becomes available to the public. Just a suggestion: In all the pictures I've seen of the WTC, not all the lights are on. Several floors are unlit, while half of others are. Is there any way to do some nighttime window variation or would that people unbelievably time consuming? I just thought it would be really cool if the windows looked like that.

[+Guest]

Wow, it's bringing tears to my eyes (I was in the WTC  4 days before the attacks), can't wait to see it on my copy when it's up for download.

[MayorTim 16]

Please post that on the lex as a version 1.0 and work from there! I want atleast one of those towers to grace my Downtown!https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/4.gif>

[rubik3 118]

Just a suggestion: In all the pictures I've seen of the WTC, not all the lights are on.  Several floors are unlit, while half of others are.  Is there any way to do some nighttime window variation or would that people unbelievably time consuming?

 

Yes it's going to be time consuming but it was something I had originally planned on doing.  I want to get the daytime details done first then I will work on the lighting scheme.

 

Here's a rendered image of the plaza.  With the FDNY memorial being the size it is, it's impossible to make out any detail so i'm thinking about leaving it out.  I'm also still working on a good gold texture but the fountain came out to my liking.

 

[+Guest]

I can't wait!

[rt2004 2]

you have done a great job so far, i cant wait till it comes out

[NYM1980 3]

Will you be making the smaller buildings that also made up part of the World Trade Center Complex?

[Smurfer2 7]

----------------

On 2/5/2004 11:00:31 PM NYM1980 wrote:Will you be making the smaller buildings that also made up part of the World Trade Center Complex?

----------------

Somebody didn't read this tread. Please do and I think it will answer your question.

Rubik, nice plaza, I crave more!https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif>

[NYM1980 3]

Actually I did read most of the thread, there is a lot to read, however, and since hes been answering questions, I figure I might as well ask. I realize hes making the two towers and the plaza, was recommending the other surronding structures as well. So, instead of being rude, why not try answering the question instead?

[Smurfer2 7]

I'm sorry for being rude.https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/images/smilies/15.gif> I don't want to quote him, but it goes something like this. He will finish the two towers, build world trade center 3-6 and then he might do seven.

 

Note to self: Don't act like some members and tell people to search or read. Just answer if you can.

[NYM1980 3]

Thank you. I have read quite a bit of this thread, but came in a while after it started.
I am very excited about this, these are some amazing structures and deserve to live on in Sim City!!!

[rubik3 118]

I've started on 3-6 but they won't be ready for a while so my initial release will just contain the 2 towers and the plaza as three separate landmarks.  Eventually I will release 3-6 as individual landmarks, as well as the whole complex, but that is still a ways off.