jcarlilesiu

If this game fails, it will be the last Simcity we will ever see. It took EA 10 years to reboot the series on a whim, and try to make it appeal to a larger audience. If this game goes down, I don't think you will ever see another true city builder out of this developer. Its purely business.

Actually, it is probably more accurate simulation this way. A local town really has no control over highways in the real world. Those are owned, operated, and controlled by the state. Same with railroad lines. Certainly the local municipalities can petition the state for desired changes, but local villages cant just make a decision to take out part of an interstate highway.

I agree, those few changes would make my list nearly complete. With a couple of expansion packs... BAM! no complaints from me. Keep it up Maxis!

So you wouldn't have an issue if the game didn't download the items that weren't paid for?

I have a rant of my own, but its quite different than most other ones here. I am just as excited as the next guy to get my hands on the new Simcity, and certainly there are things in the new version that I wish were different, expanded on, or better thought out. Even more so, I wish the developers would concentrate more on the city-builder aspect than the micro-management and economic aspects. I understand that most gamers and enthusiasts have little understanding or care about the economics of running a business. Their focus is on the final product and rightly so. We all want a great, next generation, city builder. However; failing to understand the dynamics and process which the game developers must work (MUST) is hurtful to true objective criticism and suggestion. EA and Maxis have dumped MILLIONS of dollars into the development of this game. A complete risk, just like every other game development. Its a reboot, meaning they didn't simply take the core of Simcity 4, continue to add features, and relaunch. Instead, they started from scratch, so that future generations of the game are better. Remember that concept. Lets look at the very first Simcity: Remember that doosey of a game. It was GREAT. It was something completely new and orginal, and the support that it got from the community eventually led to this. Look at the difference. The level of advancement of the final game, in relation to the first is extraordinary, It was possible because there was a base of fans behind it that encouraged (with their wallet) the developers to continue to make the game (excuse me, simulation). The first image is stage 1, while the second image is something like stage 4. Do you know how many millions of dollars it cost to take the game from stage 1 (very risky) to stage 4? Those millions were invested because the support from the community led the business aspect of Maxis to believe that it was worth the development. Now, lets consider where stage 1 is for THIS GAME. Sure, it has some limitations, it has some design considerations. It is a starting point. But just like the first Simcity, the expectation that the game START at level 4 is an unreasonable expectation. They expectation that Maxis and EA invest 4 times the amount of millions they already have into the game, because of your expectations of the relaunch is unreasonable. I played the beta, sure the maps are small. I have voiced concern about this, but I am SURE it is something EA will fix in Simcity 2015 or later. The point is, and in conclusion.... please be reasonable in your expectations. Throwing a fit because there is no subways in the game? There was no subways in the first Simcity, nor terraforming, nor really anything. Its a starting point. Lets all be objective in our expectations, but do so in a reasonable way which will encourage the franchise to continue to develop. Can you imagine what Simcity 2025 would look like?

I agree with you about being able to zone different densities. As far as zoning lot depths, I like the old model where you established the plot size and as it developed new bigger buildings take up more lots. I can see how that would be problematic because zoning now follows curves. So I can see why the zone is just established at the street edge. That isn't a big deal to me.

Great post. Me personally, agree with the reboot and the new engine. I think that it allows much more possibility moving into the future and eventually, the perceived limitations will be more easily overcome than sticking with the old model.

Exactly right. Marteen... your list of wants isn't terribly bad, and I think you comprehend the idea of sacrifice in the name of a new type of game engine. This post is more in response to people like Jim. They will be critical of any type of sacrifice. From my point of view, think 10 years from now, what computers will be capable of. When we have that much power, think about how great glassbox will be. Simcity 4 will look like picture #1 in my original post in comparison. Forward thinking causes a little heartburn once in awhile.

Alright. Valid enough. That's your prerogative.

You are being unfair from the prospective that you expect all of those things in the initial release. Ocean said, and he is right, they have to rebuild everything from the ground up. This game shares no programmatic foundation with any of the previous games. These features that you desire could be added in expansion packs, DLC, or subsequent releases. You are right, critical thought is important. Critically thinking... people are being unfair in their expectations. I am just about done dealing with you Jim. If you don't like my tone, don't read my posts, and don't respond to my comments. Not sure who you think you are, but I don't owe you a thing. My tone is in direct relation to your smug arrogant comments. Got it. So you want it "All". As I assumed (and rather conclusively and accurately as it appears)

That isn't why they didn't have subways in the first game. They had trains. The only difference would be a different graphical representation of subways. The reason they didn't have subways in the first game is because they excluded them to save money. Make the game more affordable, and move units. Even in Simcity 4, things were missing. THey could have included the Rush Hour Expansion with the main game. They didn't for the same reason. People on this forum really appear to be wearing rose colored glasses in regard to Simcity 4. Nobody said anything about scaling it to make more money later. What was said, was scaling to keep costs down, and make the main game affordable which sells more units. That means, they receive profit on their initial investment, and it encourages the suits at EA to continue to develop expansion. There appears to be some claim of nefarious action at hand with EA/Maxis on this forum... and the point is. It isn't there. Alright. I don't work for EA/Maxis, not hurting my feelings. Don't buy the game. Ill buy it and then buy the expansion content as well.... JUST LIKE WE DID FOR SIMCITY 4 HA! Too true. My bad.

Ill address the rest of your statements after you clarify yours. You say that you don't have an "all or nothing" mentality. That must then mean that you are willing to compromise on some of your expectations. Above.. you claim that you want Simcity 4, but better, i.e. moving forward. So... please do point out what things you are willing to be without so that we can conclude that your perspective isn't as it seems.

My comments in red.

Because the development of a game doesn't exist in a vacuum. The cost (and possibility) of integrating every last expectation of all members of this community (or the fans elsewhere) would cost an extraordinary amount of money and increase the risk. Risk is prohibitive. Your expectations increase risk, which decreases the possibility of ANY game being developed. The all or nothing attitude of the fans here screams of immaturity and lack of comprehension of how things actually work in the real world. Why not? Because its regional organization isn't exactly what you expect? Give me specific features that prevent this game from being considered a true city builder. If you were making this claim about Sim Socities, I would agree with you. But this is clearly a true city-builder. And Ill be sure to point out that DLC is how we get the base game for $49.99 rather than $129.99. Its funny, because some of you clearly operate outside the realms of reality. WHAT YOU WANT, is for EA and Maxis to develop a game that would cost about $169.99, but you only want to pay a fraction of that. The expectations of the "fans" is what is called to question here, and you have created a perfect example of why those expectations are unreasonable.

Disagree. Schools in Simcity 4, which suddenly supported increased capacity to the tune of 1000%, simply by sliding a scale up was not realistic. Traffic jams on a 4 lane boulevard, when an expressway adjacent to the road sits empty is not realistic. Airports with runways that are about 1/8 the size they should be to accommodate landing a commercial airliner is not realistic. Simcity 4 had a tone of flaws, both graphically, but also in its simulation. The engine was old and I am sure unable to cop with the current and future expectations of reality. YOU might have been satisfied with this unrealistic simulation caused by an outdated engine, but I believe the developers are betting on a better engine that will utilize bigger computer processors and memory to be even more realistic. This type of change though, and the development of this forward thinking engine, takes time. First of all, we are talking about GAME. This is not about exact mathematical models. There is no such PC for such complex tasks like exact simulation of the city. No way. And I think it is not needed to be absolutly realistic. It is about ability to play with something. To play things different, about possibilities. Its about thinking when I want to do something IMO. Those are YOUR priorities. My priority is an accurate (or as close to one as possible) simulation.

Disagree. Schools in Simcity 4, which suddenly supported increased capacity to the tune of 1000%, simply by sliding a scale up was not realistic. Traffic jams on a 4 lane boulevard, when an expressway adjacent to the road sits empty is not realistic. Airports with runways that are about 1/8 the size they should be to accommodate landing a commercial airliner is not realistic. Simcity 4 had a tone of flaws, both graphically, but also in its simulation. The engine was old and I am sure unable to cop with the current and future expectations of reality. YOU might have been satisfied with this unrealistic simulation caused by an outdated engine, but I believe the developers are betting on a better engine that will utilize bigger computer processors and memory to be even more realistic. This type of change though, and the development of this forward thinking engine, takes time.

Agreed. It will happen.

Agreed. THe game is too focused on micro details than macro urban development. The glassbox engine has limited the size of the city, because of the level of detail applied to individual sims. The only think I can figure is that in order for the engine to work, it needed to be monitoring each sim individually, which provides for a more accurate and realistic engine. As such, since the engine is already processing these details in the name of realism, then why not just show the outcome to the player? A more realistic engine is a good thing. Simcity 4 had some serious issues with realism in the sims behavior. As computers continue to process more information, the limitations should be reduced. I think the glassbox engine is a little ahead of its time, and thats why we are seeing some restrictions.

Its really not a big departure from simcity 4. When (yes when) the region is more continuous, tile size is larger, terraforming is implemented, and things like utilities and public transportation are expanded on... its going to be Simcity4 but with a better engine. Patience. I am 34, and played the very first Simcity. After 10 years of thinking the series went they way of the dinosaur, I am ecstatic. I am ready to see where this new series will go.

An open letter to Maxis To Whom it May Concern, I can't express to you how important and influential Simcity has been for me in the development of my life and my professional career. When I heard of the new Simcity reboot, I was felt like a kid again (my wife is still rolling her eyes). Lets be clear, I am still very excited. One thing though that I am pretty bummed about is the limited tile size in the proposed game. Based on what I have seen, the limitations in continuous city size is too restricting, even considering things like scaling. It isn't even about the size, its about continuity. In previous versions, it didn't really matter where the edge of the tile was. We were required to jump to across the border to another city tile in the same region to continue development. The smaller sized maps in this scenario simply means the player would have to jump around more while building inside the simulation. But the continuity of urban sprawl was maintained, and that made it realistic. In this new version, it simply isn't realistic. Looking at Google earth and viewing at any large metropolitan area in nearly any city in the world. They are all continuous. The little "dots" of cities in the region as is currently presented in the reboot are just that, individual little towns. These cities may interact with each other, but they certainly aren't what would be considered the same metro area. Because of that limitation, I simply don't see how any of these small towns could ever have more than 10 - 20K sims and still be realistic. Having a 2km by 2km area filled with sky scrapers surrounded by green space is a huge downfall of the current design. When I purchase the game (as I certainly am still excited to do), my cities will never exceed population levels of 10, 20, maybe even 50 thousand people, because I will refuse to build unrealistically due to limitations imposed by an inaccurate simulation. I really hope Maxis addresses this problem in this edition, either through an update or from launch. I understand that they have put a huge amount of focus into micro-management in the game, something that was lacking in previous games. The same high school serving 30 kids that serves 800 because of a slider? That isn't realistic. Thanks very much for addressing these micro-management issues, but please not at the sacrifice of macro-management of the urban environment at large. Sincerely, A 33 year old Architect & Urban Planner (a resultant due in part to previous Simcity editions)

Yes, because in Simcity 4, having a traffic jam 14 blocks long in a small city when the street one block over with the same terminus is completely empty is a better alternative. /sarcasm