Unmotivated Boys

[RiverCocytus 0]

awesome thread. Please, Please PLEASE read some of this:

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm

You will find that it probably vindicates your worst fears.

Basically, one of the problems with our society in my opinion is that it is very male-unfriendly in some basic ways. One of the problems also is that the Mass Media is very corrupt and slanted.

One of the most basic ways our society is male unfriendly is anti-violence. Lets face it, schools no longer physically discipline students, and boys are rarely if every permitted to have fistfights. I had a few, but they were always off school grounds and not with a real referee. Some people might find these things to be ODD to be mentioned in this topic, but I think they are important, if you will hear me out.

Violence is a part of human nature, and fighting itself is much like dancing, a deadly dance of skill and cunning. Fight Club is really awesome to me, because it tells some real truth about masculinity. Masculinity is actually, honestly, dangerous. But only when it is left untrained, undisciplined, untaught, unlearned and left without moral guidance. Violence I think is a big part of masculinity, but it need not be in a way that is harmful to society. The problem is, we systematically deny that violence is part of masculinity while at the same time feminizing society and telling men that they are expendable, violent, troublesome, etc. The result is the same as when you deny that you make judgements, your judgements get poorer. The result of this trend is that men are becoming less capable. Our lives are too easy, or our discipline is too weak, or our role models are terrible, etc.

Guess what; think of the Great Men of history... many of them we would in modern standards look down apon, yeah? Bigots, abusers, violent, wrathful, lustful, lecherous, greedy, foolish, the list goes on of how our male role models are systematically denigrated. I for one hold to a Christian principle about the great men of history, and that is, every man is a work in progress. We are all rough around the edges in some way, that is why we are men!

What we really have in large amounts is strength, courage, ambition, cunning, quickness, even men who seem to be somewhat feminine have these things in decent supply. Sadly, most of these things are discarded in favor of others. Compassion in favor of strength, caution instead of courage, cooperation instead of ambition, honesty instead of cunning, patience instead of quickness. I always felt caged in, and for many years suffered from severe depression. Even now I want to get out, get away... I want to build a rocket and soar into space; I care not whether I will ever return. What does it matter? Does what I do here really even matter? Why not do something that does?

Obviously, there are implications; men are restless and lazy, like a male lion that has been coddled and cared for by a pride of lionesses. I think that inside many guys the spirit calls out, "Freedom!" We are not opressed really, but coddled to death!

Men seek out the military because it is hard... because it is meaningful...

I routinely seek out challenges, while I try to allow Christ to form my life, He seems to call me to challenge myself and seek difficulties...

I don't know if I'll ever get married. I have a decent paying job, but I am unsatisfied. I will be satisfied when I have done something momentous; even if only I know of its completion. Working for pay is only worth it for a family to a man... Family is worth your life, your blood, your faith and your honor. But I have no family; no girlfriend; I am adrift. The Church and Christ help me from floating away, but this ship is meant for sailing... it is meant to seek out new lands. Will I plunder or conquer, or make peace? I don't know. It doesn't matter. What man thinks really of what he'll do when he meets the people he meets when he explores? He probably will trade with them. What else?

I drive really fast, as fast as I can get away with. I know it is dangerous not only to myself, but to others. I try to limit the hazard I create for others; when I totalled my last car, both the 72-year-old lady who illegally pulled out into full traffic and I were uninjured. (Our cars were a different story.) I drive fast because of adrenaline, but I also drive fast because it challenges my senses, my mind, my reflexes; I feel more alive when I can feel G-force pulling against my body.

Honestly, I have been and still am an abuser of pornography. Sounds nasty, and it is. Most men probably are, even Christians; it is too easy to get your hands on and too easy to hide. You learn to be clever about your habit. I have been trying to quit since the beginning of college, but God has never removed this thorn from me. No doubt it is to teach me humility and discipline. Like I said, I'll bet many men are abusers as well (or users if they do not share my opinions) but are unwilling to admit it. It is unimportant to admit it in my opinion; men know when another man uses it, and when he doesn't. Its all about his habits, personal odors, etc.

It is a huge issue, and in a sense it has a cooling effect on men, but is temporary and really only creates trouble in the long run. Men are temporarily satisfied with the false relationship, but in the long run it only creates bitterness and restlessness.

If those two paragraphs are unsuitable for this forum, I can remove them.

I play the piano, organ, and keyboard; I do so because it challenges my mind and reflexes, it gives me purpose, and allows me to worship God in a way that I understand. Learning a sonata or fugue is a challenge of dexterity, speed, intelligence, and cleverness.

I lift weights because I feel less tired the more I exercise. I enjoy being strong, and I find the action of moving and pressing heavy objects satisfying.

This is my long post on the subject, fellows and authors, submitted for your reading.

I feel that one step to help improve the lives of men would start in elementary school; returning to an amount of physical punishment and allowing fistfighting might help, but it might also be far too late for any of that.

All I know is the first rocket I can take to the moon, I'm takin' it. I'm just... so.. restless. (sighs) Society perhaps does not understand this.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I wonder if the fact there are now no frontiers is contributiong to this problem, As RiverCocytus was saying , the adventurious ones are feeling boxed in with no outlet for those urges except for mabey the military which if we keep going the way he describes will no longer be an outlet acepted by society. All the mountians have been climbed,all the seas been crossed , all the solo flights around the world have been flown, the poles have been reached, the moon walked upon, manned missions going to mars is a pipedream at this point because its now cheaper and "safer'"to send robots to explore then men.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: RiverCocytus

. . .

This is my long post on the subject, fellows and authors, submitted for your reading. 

. . .

  quote>

Thank you for sharing that, RC.  It is probably the most eloquent, communicative thing I've ever read on the topic.  Some of the points you raise are a bit troubling but thought provoking.  I appreciate your sharing your perspective.

[RiverCocytus 0]

Thanks, Ski.

Here is an interesting article relating to the subject:

http://www.blog.speculist.com/archives/000718.html

Its about the overmedication of boys in schools. Here is a quote:

This New Scientist article caught my attention. Apparently the diagnosis of ADHD and prescibing of Ritalin and related drugs to children and youths is nothing short of rampant -- more than 4 million kids nationwide. In an otherwise straightforward article, this bit of weasel-speak up front got my attention:

Just as worrying, large numbers of children who do have ADHD are going undiagnosed.

Seeing as how -- a few years ago -- all cases of ADHD went undiagnosed and yet we somehow managed to function as a society, I'm going to have to allow that I'm just a tad more concerned about the questionable drugging of millions of American kids than I am about the few bona fide ADHD cases which have somehow managed to slip between the cracks.quote>

An interesting read for parents, future parents and people who were and are diagnosed with ADHD.

I posted some comments on my blog.

[Joesocwork 4]

I've long been of the opinion that a little ADHD is not such a bad thing if it's managed appropriately enough.

[hym 358]

One of the most basic ways our society is male unfriendly is anti-violence. Lets face it, schools no longer physically discipline students, and boys are rarely if every permitted to have fistfights. I had a few, but they were always off school grounds and not with a real referee. Some people might find these things to be ODD to be mentioned in this topic, but I think they are important, if you will hear me out.quote>

If I've got this right, you feel that physical discipline is important to someone's development (especially guys) and that the lack of physical discipline has to a certain extent, softened men. I would have to agree that this is possible. Having been the recipient of the fist (metaphorically speaking--I've never actually been punched), I can say that it is a very powerful motivator. Granted the motivation is external, as opposed to the more preferable internal motivation, but the external motivation will fire the internal motivation if the external motivator is strong enough.

Violence is a part of human nature, and fighting itself is much like dancing, a deadly dance of skill and cunning. Fight Club is really awesome to me, because it tells some real truth about masculinity. Masculinity is actually, honestly, dangerous. But only when it is left untrained, undisciplined, untaught, unlearned and left without moral guidance. Violence I think is a big part of masculinity, but it need not be in a way that is harmful to society. The problem is, we systematically deny that violence is part of masculinity while at the same time feminizing society and telling men that they are expendable, violent, troublesome, etc. The result is the same as when you deny that you make judgments, your judgments get poorer. The result of this trend is that men are becoming less capable. Our lives are too easy, or our discipline is too weak, or our role models are terrible, etc.quote>

I would agree that masculinity is dangerous, assuming you're speaking about the lower functions of the brain (i.e. aggression, survival, and the like). Because they are basic instincts inherent to every human (but stronger in men), they are something that one has to learn how to deal with. But men and women often approach the issue of violence in two radically different manners. Most of the women that I have been in contact with over the years feel that violence is wrong, end of story. Most men that I have spoken to over the years feel that violence is only wrong if it is misapplied or misdirected. In the early 1900s, most boys would not back away from a fight. Nowadays, many boys (myself included as I wouldn't strike someone unless it was in self-defense) would run from a school bully or someone else because they have been taught that violence is something that shouldn't be. They have been taught that you should talk about you differences instead of coming to blows. This has traditionally been the female attitude toward violence and this attitude displays itself in many of today's boys. (I'm not blaming women for this; in reality, this is primarily the fault of the father not providing more guidance in a boy's growth and development.)

 

What we really have in large amounts is strength, courage, ambition, cunning, quickness, even men who seem to be somewhat feminine have these things in decent supply. Sadly, most of these things are discarded in favor of others. Compassion in favor of strength, caution instead of courage, cooperation instead of ambition, honesty instead of cunning, patience instead of quickness.quote>

While not everyone man immediately displays these characteristics, I think that most men possess them on some level of their character (or most of them anyway). I would say that compassion and strength are needed, caution and courage are needed (although the caution shouldn't be allowed to snuff out the courage as it often does), cooperation and ambition are needed, (you see where I'm heading with this). They are all necessary traits, they just aren't being treated as equally important (like they once were).

Men seek out the military because it is hard... because it is meaningful...quote>

There is great truth in that. Many men join the military because they want to prove something to themselves or to someone else. They are drawn by the allure of being among "the best of the best." While this may or may not be the right motive, once they are in, many come to see the value of the work that the military does. I once read the perfect example of this mindset: "I don't want to leave. Once I'm no longer part of this organization, I don't know how I'll get up in the morning. Right now, I get up and start my day knowing that I'm doing something important, something that actually means something. When I get back home, I don't know if I'll be able to live without knowing that." This soldier was speaking about the fact that his tour of duty was drawing to a close and the Army was wasn't going to allow him to re-enlist. He didn't know if he would be able to face life without knowing he was doing something valuable with his life.

I drive really fast, as fast as I can get away with. I know it is dangerous not only to myself, but to others. I try to limit the hazard I create for others; when I totaled my last car, both the 72-year-old lady who illegally pulled out into full traffic and I were uninjured. (Our cars were a different story.) I drive fast because of adrenaline, but I also drive fast because it challenges my senses, my mind, my reflexes; I feel more alive when I can feel G-force pulling against my body.quote>

I understand the reasons behind driving fast. Like you said, it's about the G-forces, the adrenaline rush, and the challenge. It's the same way when I'm out playing various sports, riding my bike, or when I'm with friends PvP Halo (minus the G-forces). Even if you throw the ball, frisbee, or whatever way off-course, I'm going to run for it even if I have no chance of catching up with it. Out on my bike, I'll try to push myself to break one of my old records, get in another 5 miles, or something similar. I'll hop on my bike in nearly 100 degree weather, ride down to the bottom of a nearby hill, and try to race up the hill at 20+ mph (it's a pretty steep hill, too). When I'm playing against my friends on Halo, I feel the adrenaline rush that comes from running through a mock city looking for your assailant, not knowing if you might be running into a trap. In all three cases, it's all about the challenge and the rush that comes from pushing yourself to the limits of your abilities.

I lift weights because I feel less tired the more I exercise. I enjoy being strong, and I find the action of moving and pressing heavy objects satisfying.quote>

Again, it's the physical challenge. I lift weights (I do it for the conditioning, I'm not trying to become a body-builder) and I can agree that the feeling that comes from working your muscles like that can be very gratifying. When I'm doing push-ups, and I can feel my arm muscles working in a synchronized movement, it's tough to feel more alive than that. And while this may seem sadistic, I find that the burning that comes from your muscles filling up with lactic acid encourages me to continue and push myself harder.

Having read RiverCocytus's post, I thought that I would share some of the information that it had brought to mind.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Joesocwork I've long been of the opinion that a little ADHD is not such a bad thing if it's managed appropriately enough.quote>

 

 Wow you learn something new every day .

Ritalin is a stimulant?

Why would you give a kid with hyperactivity a stimulant?

I also wonder if  ADHD is another side effect of the lack of displine in the schools/homes, i mean the cases that are misdiagonosed  not those who have real learning disabilitys.

If your not paying attention, not taking notes, staring out the window, not focusing, ect its not ADD its lazyness.

[RiverCocytus 0]

Yeah, My point is basically the things that boys need to learn they don't.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: Joesocwork I've long been of the opinion that a little ADHD is not such a bad thing if it's managed appropriately enough.quote>

 

 Wow you learn something new every day .

Ritalin is a stimulant?

Why would you give a kid with hyperactivity a stimulant?

I also wonder if  ADHD is another side effect of the lack of displine in the schools/homes, i mean the cases that are misdiagonosed  not those who have real learning disabilitys.

If your not paying attention, not taking notes, staring out the window, not focusing, ect its not ADD its lazyness.quote>

Adults that have taken generic Ritalin have reported that it increases the brain's ability to focus.  The idea is that you give the kid Ritalin, get his attention on something, and he's OK.

quote>

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: hym

 Most of the women that I have been in contact with over the years feel that violence is wrong, end of story. Most men that I have spoken to over the years feel that violence is only wrong if it is misapplied or misdirected. quote>

 

There is much here that I would like to reply to but don't have the time at the moment.  but I have to ask . . .  can you give me an example of when violence is properly applied and directed?

I also wonder if  ADHD is another side effect of the lack of displine in the schools/homes, i mean the cases that are misdiagonosed  not those who have real learning disabilitys.

If your not paying attention, not taking notes, staring out the window, not focusing, ect its not ADD its lazyness.

quote>

 

In some cases, maybe, but in many cases it is not.

When I was a kid, we had a few kids who would be called ADHD today but not all that many.  I think the increase is partly due to over diagnosis and partly due to something we haven't yet identified.  Red dye #2 or some food preservative or something stupid like that.

[Joesocwork 4]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: Joesocwork I've long been of the opinion that a little ADHD is not such a bad thing if it's managed appropriately enough.quote>

 

 Wow you learn something new every day .

Ritalin is a stimulant?

Why would you give a kid with hyperactivity a stimulant?

I also wonder if  ADHD is another side effect of the lack of displine in the schools/homes, i mean the cases that are misdiagonosed  not those who have real learning disabilitys.

If your not paying attention, not taking notes, staring out the window, not focusing, ect its not ADD its lazyness.

quote>

Sometimes poor self discipline, stress,  ADD/ADHD, and learning disabilities often share the same symptoms.  The latter ones, however are hard-wired neurological conditions where the brain has problems sorting out stimuli.  Some people who are considered hyperactive are that way b/c they don't have the complete neurological controls to block out everything they think, feel, or get from their senses.  What stimulants do is block out some of those internal and external distractions.  That's part of what helps some people who drink coffee to better concentrate.  But ADHD is very easy to misdiagnose.  The condition often compounds other problems due to stress or lack of self-discipline and adults often use ADHD remedies to babysit instead of teaching youth the skills needed to gain self-control.

[RiverCocytus 0]

Yes; I believe they have determined that real ADHD (the neurological condition) is caused by certain neurotransmitters not firing; the stimulant stimulates those. (That is what my father, who is a Psychologist told me...)

A friend of mine is a real ADHD case, but takes no meds. His explanation is that ADHD people can hyperfocus. Trouble is, kids can't control what they are hyperfocusing on, (I would say the climate is unfavorable for boys to learn self discipline.) so they hyperfocus on whatever thing is most interesting. He discovered that as he got older and more disciplined he could control what he was focusing on, and thus it became an aid to him; he could study for 3 hours without distraction (something that I am unable to do.) On the other hand, while I can play the piano, sing, and tap my foot at the same time, doing all three at the same time for him would be difficult. Of course, I can't block out things the way he is able to do. I suppose that the climate of our society disfavors these boys, and thus their mental configuration which may or may not actually be damaging is considered a disorder and medicated. To make it worse, boys who act LIKE they are ADHD are also medicated.

I think that the opening of the new frontier of space could be a mitigator for our current woes as men. I for one (as I have said earlier) and gung-ho. Sure I know how to write, speak, paint, draw, sing, play music, program, debate, etc. I mentioned this in another thread; Ben Franklin's father was a candlemaker, but he was also a skilled debater, historian and violinist. My feeling is that if we let boys be boys we will find that there are an astounding number of them who are talented in many ways. But its not a waste for any man, whatever talents he has, to decide to devote his life to something. Some pooh-pooh men who had promising careers but went to fight in wars, like Iraq, and were killed. (Think of the famed football player.) We all are seeking purpose, and we have our own way of finding it. The finer things in life are not an end unto themselves.

*goes to bed*

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: hym

 Most of the women that I have been in contact with over the years feel that violence is wrong, end of story. Most men that I have spoken to over the years feel that violence is only wrong if it is misapplied or misdirected. quote>

 

There is much here that I would like to reply to but don't have the time at the moment.  but I have to ask . . .  can you give me an example of when violence is properly applied and directed?quote>

The easiest example I can think of comes with the field of anger management.  I have a friend that when angry, takes rotten peaches and destroys them with a baseball bat.  He tosses them up in the air, and when they reach batting height, he swings the bat and the peach explodes in a shower of peach particles.  While this may seem like a ridiculous way to release anger, he has said on multiple occasions that it is rather effective at calming him down.  I would say that assuming the violence isn't purposely directed at someone (like in times of war), this kind of violence is a healthy way to release anger, tension, or stress (depending on the individual).  The main point in this example is that the violence isn't directed at anyone and therefore, is probably not causing anyone any harm.

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: EasyBakes

I also wonder if  ADHD is another side effect of the lack of displine in the schools/homes, i mean the cases that are misdiagonosed  not those who have real learning disabilitys.

If your not paying attention, not taking notes, staring out the window, not focusing, ect its not ADD its lazyness.quote>

 

In some cases, maybe, but in many cases it is not.

When I was a kid, we had a few kids who would be called ADHD today but not all that many.  I think the increase is partly due to over diagnosis and partly due to something we haven't yet identified.  Red dye #2 or some food preservative or something stupid like that.quote>

 

I've heard that the amount of fats necessary for proper function of the brain is deficient in most people with ADD or ADHD.  Most of the time, ADD or ADHD can be largely solved by giving the person more omega-3 oils.  I don't doubt that chemicals like Red dye #2 or Blue Lake #14 contribute to the problem, but from the way I've read it, lack of essential fatty acids is one of the main culprits.

[moganite 4]

River i agree with you on ADHD . Having read that article and seeing the trends in australia they follw the same pattern just a few years behind. i Probably would of been diagnosed with ADHD in the current climate probably cause i have many projects going at once .. its sort of multitasking mentally. Also mental illnesses are commonly misdiagnosed causing needless pain for the sufferer. Like you i am also coming out of depression and social anxiety disorder its a struggle but i hope i will get there.

One element that has been going on in australian schools/universities is trying to get more girls and women in science and engineering and acedamia in general the focus is on motivating girls more than boys even though it doesn't need so much of a focus now. More women are graduating than men and my local university is 60 percent women at last count. Increaasingly girls are given more and more support while boys are laregly ignored. Also the subjects being used in the final assesment to enter uni are wieghted in favour of the girls now. The boys are left to thier own devices again be a man syndrome. The result is that girls are more sucessful at school and uni than boys and they are now begining to dominate the high acheiver rankings.

The fact is that boys learn very differntly to girls and are socialised differently also. Boys are socailised to be agressive and competitive while girls are socialised to cooperate etc. This is changing now boys are becoming calmer(medication ?) and women more agressive. i really don't like the idea of medicating half the population just cuase the don appear to be able to concentrate. Maybe that is one thing we need to teach boys how to concentrate.

SkiGeek

There is much here that I would like to reply to but don't have the time at the moment. but I have to ask . . . can you give me an example of when violence is properly applied and directed? quote>

one time i can think of is when your survival is threatened

Lastly nutrition and the chemical enviroment are also potent affectors of mood and behavior and anatomy unfortunately this post is getting a bit long i think need to give people some time to thinke

[mayormommy 8]

My son was diagnosed with ADHD two years ago.  Both his father (my ex-husband) and I were appalled that a "specialist" at the pediatrician's office was willing to write him a presciption with no formal testing, only on the basis filled of a few questionaires filled out by teachers and family. BTW, this one of the few things my ex and I have agreed on in several years. So after some heroic struggles with the insurance company, the county, the public school system (ironically my son is in Catholic school), and various doctors' offices, we finally got him properly tested. Some offices even told us that such a test didn't even exist, but I knew it did because I had a friend that used to do that as a part-time job.  It was an all-day procedure that consisted mainly of fun but simple games that merely required focused attention and obeying the rules of the game. He did awful. Finally we were convinced that despite the fact he was desperately trying to be good, he just couldn't control his impulsiveness at times. So he is on Concerta and a strict home and school program that keeps him very organized. We've had our ups and downs but his last report card was straight Bs.

My son and two step-sons are all too young to tell if they will be parasites, as they are unkindly called in Japan. Our house is very tiny and sometimes I wonder if today's larger homes encourage the problem. But of course that still doesn't explain the boys vs. girls difference. We have a number of young women in our office who seemed to be completely unphased by taking a job in another city right after college, finding a roommate in a place where they know no one, and facing a tricky financial future. We have no young men like that, only slightly older men with families. Where are all the 20-something men? The girls in my office would like to know!

[RiverCocytus 0]

Right here, ma'am! (Tired of asking women out because they always say they have boyfriends.)

[RadioheadFan 1]

     I love topics like this...getting everyone thinking leads to such stimulating discussion, and RiverCocytus' post was one of the most enthralling things I've had the pleasure of reading on ST.

     This topic hits close to home because here, in my little ol' world, laziness is prevalent. Small-town life doesn't always have much to offer, especially in Northern Ontario, and when the snow's still around in mid-April like it is now, you can get pretty depressed. You look outside and the puddles are collecting, the creeks are overflowing, but you can't help but think, "This is unbelievable...snow on Easter!"

     Kids today (myself included) just seem to be lazy and unguided. Our schools, our homes, out entire lives are engineered to having us do things the easy way. At school, they can tell you that application is part of the curriculum, but how are you applying your knowledge? You're writing down yet another answer, you're applying pen to paper, and is that even worth the application? You could be out there, applying your knowledge to the real world, but you're sitting in a classroom with people who think like you, look like you, and have the same ideals because they're brought up that way.

     Take me for example. Right now it's moderately warm outside, not terrible weather, and I'm here, sitting at my computer, typing up this big long post about how we're lazy because we're brought up that way. I could go outside and play basketball, but I have basketball video games right here. I could do something with friends, but MSN and the phone are at arm's reach. I could go and do some cooking or play some music, but the Food Network and MTV are accessible by remote. Therefore, I'm led to believe that everything I could get elsewhere are right here; thus, why leave? And that is the root of the problem.

     This affects men especially because as others in this thread have remarked, men are portrayed as the lazy slobs who fantasize about the riches and the pretty girls while digging in to another bag of Cheetos. Is that the ideal man? Hell no. The ideal man, the role model, at least to me, is strong and independent, free-thinking and cunning, with initiative and will to spare. But we're supposed to be the bums with our parents, albeit the good-looking ones like Matthew McConaughey, who need hired help to get us off our butts and into the real world. Today's women have powerful, motivated, and ambitious women to look up to on TV and in the news, and that makes all the difference, especially in younger generation.

     You really can't blame us, for wanting to stay in our cocoons of technology. Like I said, we have everything right at our fingertips, and thus we have no reason to branch out. But if we already have everything we want, then where's the room for imagination? Ambition? Why would we branch out and achieve greater things, leave the safety of the computer desk and the couch and live, accomplish what we hadn't accomplished before? Because our Matthew McConaugheys and Brad Pitts and Ben Afflecks portray the ideal bums, at home with Mom and Pop working in fast food joints. They're what we want to be, at least I know I wouldn't mind being Matthew McConaughey, and so we sit at home, afraid to experience, to dream and to go where we haven't gone before.

     Well, my fingers are really tired now, but I just have a little bit more to say. Micah talked about how this thread motivated him to branch out and use his scholarly advantage to leverage himself. That is exactly what we want, and what this thread offers; we're motivating ourselves to go out and do the things we're not yet doing by typing our thoughts and expressing how we feel. Speaking of which, I think I'll go out and play a little basketball now.

     Thanks for your time you're spending reading this and the opportunity to speak my mind.

Jamie

    

[justanothersim86 83]

^ Hit the nail on the head. 

I've been trying to get out more recently. I've spent today indoors but I'm not feeling terribly well. Tomorrow, I think I'll go play road hockey with the neighbours.

This thread provides more motivation than anything. Thanks guys!

[The Terminator 0]

whenever i hear of something like this, i cant help but think of the old punk classic "Do they owe us a living" by crass.

[Joesocwork 4]

You guys will turn out okay!

[Duke87 1,070]

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

I saw this article and thought it would be interesting to hear the opinions of people here.

In my day, we called this "Peter Pan Syndrome", when guys had an extreme resistance to adulthood.  But some of the statistics here surprised me.  

"According to the Census Bureau, fully one-third of young men ages 22 to 34 are still living at home with their parents -- a roughly 100 percent increase in the past 20 years. No such change has occurred with regard to young women."

What is up with that? 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

What's Happening to Boys?

Young Women These Days Are Driven -- but Guys Lack Direction

By Leonard Sax

Friday, March 31, 2006

The romantic comedy "Failure to Launch," which opened as the No. 1 movie in the nation this month, has substantially exceeded pre-launch predictions, taking in more than $64 million in its first three weeks.

Matthew McConaughey plays a young man who is affable, intelligent, good-looking -- and completely unmotivated. He's still living at home and seems to have no ambitions beyond playing video games, hanging out with his buddies (two young men who are also still living with their parents) and having sex. In desperation, his parents hire a professional motivation consultant, played by Sarah Jessica Parker, who pretends to fall in love with McConaughey's character in the hope that a romantic relationship will motivate him to move out of his parents' home and get a life.

The movie has received mixed reviews, though The Post's Stephen Hunter praised it as "the best comedy since I don't know when." But putting aside the movie's artistic merits or lack thereof, I was struck by how well its central idea resonates with what I'm seeing in my office with greater and greater frequency. Justin goes off to college for a year or two, wastes thousands of dollars of his parents' money, then gets bored and comes home to take up residence in his old room, the same bedroom where he lived when he was in high school. Now he's working 16 hours a week at Kinko's or part time at Starbucks.

His parents are pulling their hair out. "For God's sake, Justin, you're 26 years old. You're not in school. You don't have a career. You don't even have a girlfriend. What's the plan? When are you going to get a life?"

"What's the problem?" Justin asks. "I haven't gotten arrested for anything, I haven't asked you guys for money. Why can't you just chill?"

This phenomenon cuts across all demographics. You'll find it in families both rich and poor; black, white, Asian and Hispanic; urban, suburban and rural. According to the Census Bureau, fully one-third of young men ages 22 to 34 are still living at home with their parents -- a roughly 100 percent increase in the past 20 years. No such change has occurred with regard to young women. Why?

My friend and colleague Judy Kleinfeld, a professor at the University of Alaska, has spent many years studying this growing phenomenon. She points out that many young women are living at home nowadays as well. But those young women usually have a definite plan. They're working toward a college degree, or they're saving money to open their own business. And when you come back three or four years later, you'll find that in most cases those young women have achieved their goal, or something like it. They've earned that degree. They've opened their business.

But not the boys. "The girls are driven; the boys have no direction," is the way Kleinfeld summarizes her findings. Kleinfeld is organizing a national Boys Project, with a board composed of leading researchers and writers such as Sandra Stotsky, Michael Thompson and Richard Whitmire, to figure out what's going wrong with boys. The project is only a few weeks old, it has called no news conferences and its Web site ( http://www.boysproject.net ) has just been launched.

So far we've just been asking one another the question: What's happening to boys? We've batted around lots of ideas. Maybe the problem has to do with the way the school curriculum has changed. Maybe it has to do with environmental toxins that affect boys differently than girls (not as crazy an idea as it sounds). Maybe it has to do with changes in the workforce, with fewer blue-collar jobs and more emphasis on the service industry. Maybe it's some combination of all of the above, or other factors we haven't yet identified.

In Ayn Rand's humorless apocalyptic novel "Atlas Shrugged," the central characters ask: What would happen if someone turned off the motor that drives the world? We may be living in such a time, a time when the motor that drives the world is running down or stuck in neutral -- but only for boys.

Leonard Sax, a family physician and psychologist in Montgomery County, is the author of "Boys Adrift: What's Really Behind the Growing Epidemic of Unmotivated Boys," to be published next year.

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It could be caused by lack of self confidence, from personal experience (allthough you are aware of the situation of where i live) the males around here get a much harder ride in life than the girls, the girls get guidance and let off of things while men are left to fend for themselves, i guess their childhood and mothers are a form of security.