Brown box with PEG OWW Boat Ramp

[boxcab 5]

I have installed a few of the PEG-OWW (Old Wooden Waterfront) and all but the Boat Ramp are working fine.

The boat ramp has a brown box, and I can not seem to find the dependency that is missing. I have the CDKM Marina and CDK SUPER PACK both installed.

Does anyone know of any conflicts, perhaps with an older mod installation, or dependency not listed?

[rsc204 21,866]

Frankly the old PEG files can be a bit challenging to install correctly, all the CDK3 content has been merged into a single download with a smart installer. If I were you, I'd remove the files you have and give the installer a go, you don't have to install everything CDK3, but you can.

The installer will ensure you've got everything you need, without you having to think about it, all the contents were overhauled and you'd be better off with the newer ones in any case.

[boxcab 5]

Thanks! That worked well, and gave me more mods to use. I'll tuck some in the DAMN menu for later.

I also have the same issue with BSC-SimCityRail Utilities. Is this that these files are too old to be supported or are the files being consolidated in master downloads. I've checked for dependencies in SC4 Devotion but they are having problems with their listings. Is there a work around to check for finding what one needs?  I can find other mods for cities I am playing but am just curious. 

Once again, thank you for your time and knowledge to answer questions.

[rsc204 21,866]

36 minutes ago, boxcab said:

I also have the same issue with BSC-SimCityRail Utilities. Is this that these files are too old to be supported or are the files being consolidated in master downloads.

Support is limited on anything where the creator/team behind it is no longer around, which is often the case, however usually someone will try to help. For example the readme for this file states only one dependency, BSC Railyard Props Vol1, however since release that was merged into another DAT (BSC Mega Props DAE Vol01). The problem is that when these changes happen, it's often difficult to even know what needs updating (documentation). What I did was just Google the file name, that found the linked thread where someone had already asked the question. Often times it's the simplest solution if you aren't sure, but if that doesn't help just ask, someone will be able to track things down. Of course in the event that you have either file mentioned above and yet still get a box, come back to us and I'll take a peek at the files to see what might be causing it.

There is some work going on within the community to improve accessibility, although to my knowledge only the PEG stuff is getting the 'royale' treatment. I've argued for years that this is how we should be repackaging content to allow new or returning players a much easier path to playing with mods. Currently we've managed to get two PEG 'themes' updated in this manner, but it will be expanded to cover the bulk of PEG's content eventually. However, almost uniquely this content was created in a self-contained manner, meaning the dependencies are exclusively also from the PEG team. So that presented a rare opportunity to release a large pack in this way.

If I compare that to a random set, let's say Paeng's Parks, a pack would need to include files from a bunch of creators and the reality is we'd never get permission to do it. Even taking something like the BSC Seaports, which is no fun to setup even when the Dependency Tracker was working, I have everything needed ready to go in a 7zip file. I could, if motivated turn that into a similar installer package, but again you'd never get permission to release such in this manner, despite the obvious benefits of doing so.

[boxcab 5]

As long as there are people like you, we are truly indebted for the help given.

I did try to search the file name to find help before I posted, but did not find anything. Maybe I just don't quite understand how to use the search well, such as where to look, keywords, topics, etc. I hesitate to ask for help or open up another topic that may have already be covered when there are ways of bypassing a problem by simply find another mod to fill the immediate need. I understand that only so much can be done as far as putting together various mods from creators in one's "free" time. For this I am grateful, and do understand that the most popular and often used will (and should) take precedence over more obscure and dated items.

The problem of getting permissions for updating file did not occur to me.  I imagine that files may be taken down or just lost over time and when the game is 25 years old some things will just be gone.  Kinda like a lot of things in my personal world.

By the way, I do have the BSC seaports loaded and working, but it did take quite a bit of time.  The challenge of getting it all and in the correct files is actually a fun part of the game. No, I am not a masochist. Just like to solve the problem, even if it's already been done.

[rsc204 21,866]

On 21/04/2023 at 12:32 AM, boxcab said:

I did try to search the file name to find help before I posted, but did not find anything. Maybe I just don't quite understand how to use the search well, such as where to look, keywords, topics, etc.

I suspect the key is to use a search engine, rather than search on Simtropolis itself, in this example the answer was on SC4D, so a search using the tools on Simtropolis could never find that, only a similar post (assuming one existed) here. But this is really part of the problem, over the years things have gotten a little fragmented and in an ideal world most users wouldn't have to deal with these issues, everything would be clearer and simpler.

On 21/04/2023 at 12:32 AM, boxcab said:

The problem of getting permissions for updating file did not occur to me. 

The basic problem is that some creators are so against this, they have threatened to remove all their content if it is done.

The reality is this, I wouldn't be here with the knowledge I have today, were it not for the selfless efforts of others to document and explain everything. My mods would not exist on a easily found exchange where the cost of hosting, bandwidth and running said site is shared among a few generous benefactors for the benefit of many. Sure I made everything I have uploaded, but to what extent should I have complete and total control over that? Isn't there a point where the interests of the community at large should be given more weight than those of a few creators?

Technically any SC4 mod is the sole property of EA, it states that pretty clearly in the EULA, although EA were quite happy to allow modding to flourish, to a point - it was made clear messing with the .exe was a line we can not cross. Now EA have to date not come and taken ownership of such mods and I don't think they ever would, but on paper they have that right, it's not mine but EA's work because I used their tools to create them.

On 21/04/2023 at 12:32 AM, boxcab said:

By the way, I do have the BSC seaports loaded and working, but it did take quite a bit of time.  The challenge of getting it all and in the correct files is actually a fun part of the game. No, I am not a masochist. Just like to solve the problem, even if it's already been done.

So first I should note, you can't use them and the PEG (functional) Seaports together, although you can't really miss the warning I put in the installer for that .

Sure though, I hear you, I am often quite similarly minded, nothing motivates me more than a little challenge to track things down and figure them out. I personally spend countless hours messing with my Plugins suite and I am reasonably happy to do so, because I want that level of control. That said, I have done Tech Support professionally and one thing you quickly learn is that a lot of people don't want to know about computers, they just want to use them. The same is true of say cars, it wasn't until they had uniform controls and no longer required constant tinkering, that cars really took off for the masses. So imagine for a moment not being all that comfortable with files and folders, then going through that process. I think more people would ultimately use the Seaports, if it were easier to install it, ideally it would be install and go, everything would. For example, it's not really mentioned, but you don't actually need all the dependencies, unless you use all of the included Seaports, a great guide exists here, but was never even linked to from the download? But using this information, users may find they need far fewer files to get it working as desired. This sort of complex setup is for me the best time to employ an installer, because it just boils everything down to, select which options you want, then takes care of the rest.

Sadly it's much quieter around here than at the peak of the community, but many people come and see what is possible playing SC4 and really want to be able to do similar things. Then they realise how many hours it would take to just put the content together and lots of folks then get de-motivated. Some of those won't stick around, yet these are people who if for access to the wonders of modded play were easier and less time consuming, might become active contributors or even new modders one day. So it is really in the interests of everyone who cares about the community, to support the attempts to improve this area.

As you can see from here though, the debate on this just goes on and on. It's not all bad though, for the first time we can now fix up problems and make some changes to existing content, without needing explicit consent. But I truly believe we could do so much more, if it weren't for those people who can't see beyond their desires being unwilling to consider the bigger picture.

I'm really proud of the work done on the CDK3 Collection, because I felt it was my chance to finally show just how much better we can make things, if we are just allowed to, which really is the barrier.

[catty-cb 4,412]

On 21/04/2023 at 9:51 AM, rsc204 said:

If I compare that to a random set, let's say Paeng's Parks, a pack would need to include files from a bunch of creators and the reality is we'd never get permission to do it.

Given I had Paeng permission to re package his files and upload as a single pack I did actually look at creating a Paeng Pack but the number of dependencies was such that in the end I gave up working on it for that very reason

[boxcab 5]

Wow! I didn't know this was (is) such a can of worms.

I have been trying to craft a statement of my thoughts on all this, but am just a bit overwhelmed right now.

As you have worked Tech Support you are certainly much more aware of issues with copyright, authorship, redistribution, protection, accessibility, etc.  I also can see from the other side where opening it up to all could create total chaos, especially when it comes to supporting individual mods.  Just moving files in Plugins can cause problems and solutions. (Ask me how I know.)