Subway Lines

[luijo100 0]

 

It'd be cool if SC came with a way of doing differerent underground lines like with diffreent collors and interchanche stations and than trains wouldn't just take the next available curve! like adding different depths for each line and a color and name cos the way is set up right now is way too unrealistic for simcity! I mean.... Cos Sims are worth it! lol

[Fax 0]

Not only subways, but also the whole transportation system should be revisited and made much more realistic than it's ever been in all SimCity versions. For example, I think it's just ridicolous (I find it the most unrealistic thing in the game!) that buses drive along just every street/road/motorway they want... They start from each stop heading to any other stop in the whole city, no matter routes and which kind of roads. I always get quickly bored when building my transportation system, what's the use in such an anarchical system? Planning a mass transportation system is like building a road system, you have to find the perfect path for the road (or the transit system) to serve most of the population keeping an eye on building costs. You just don't build a thousand road from a suburb to every possible destination! And similarly, transit systems are organised in lines. What stops actually at the bus stop in front of your house? Surely it'll be a bus/tram line heading to the city centre or to an important interchange point (train/subway station). But just ONE line! Or can you find a thousand lines for any place in your city?? Buses/trains/trams aren't just taxis heading freely for their destination, depending on the drivers' or passengers' mood! It's an obvious everyday experience for anyone, all over the world, that bus (and any other kind of) transportation is organised in lines, numbers and fixed routes for each line. Trains, subways and trams are also handled quite messy in the game, like Luijo said. But at least they go on their own path, so they preserve a (minimal) amount of reality (subway will travel in its tube, trains/trams on their tracks). About trains: one can try to isolate the single lines with some care while building, with over/underpasses or similar tricks; but that's again simply unrealistic. I'd be glad if I could at least just set up bus/trams/subways/trains lines and assign all stops/stations for each line, regardless of the path the vehicles want to follow from a stop to the next. If an expansion pack or a new version should ever appear, they'd have to think about that, definitely.

[landen99 0]

Now that's customer service! I would ride a bus system which picked me up and dropped me off at the places of my choosing. Unfortunately, inflexible routes and "layover" times throw off my schedule. Such a system would probably include van shuttles to and from main bus stations, and express bus routes from one area bus station to the next.

Anyhow, back to subway lines. What do you do if the subway system is quite extensive and yet still overloaded? The lines cross everywhere, oftentimes without a station at the intersections, many lines go between main residential and business districts, and the bus system is quite extensive (almost every block) also and very overwhelmed still, especially in my very dense commercial area. Do subway lines have a capacity or is it just the stations? Should the lines be kept separate at times, and if so, then when. Is there such a thing as congestion due to subway traffic on the subway lines or even congestion due to bus traffic on the roads? I once heard that buses don't add to congestion, but I don't hold a lot of confidence in that rumor yet. Can anyone verify that one? I can see high volume on all the lines, but does the subway traffic register on the congestion map? Is there a way to turn off the buildings so that one can better see the transportation system and match the subway and bus system together while viewing traffic density?

Thank you.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

subways can be congested, mine are all red

busses add to the road congestion, but I think for the number of people they move, it's less than cars.

I completely agree with Fax about the transit lines.  I try to make routes with my subways, and I even fake curves (real subways don't turn at 90 degree angles!).

In any large city, the underground has it's own life, from natural tunnels, utility (water, gas, electric) pipes, parking garages, basements, subway lines, etc. and over time all of these things combine into a complex web that affects where new underground things go, and even how heavy a building on top can be.

[simzebu 19]

Very true Jasoncw. I would love to have a more realistic underground and DEFINATELY more realistic transit.

[Duke87 1,070]

With Simcity 5 "going back to the basics", not likely. Yes, it would be cool, but it would be another layer of complication that non-avid players would not want to deal with. I know a lot of people who prefer SC2 or 3 to SC4, since the newer games "just got too complicated to be fun". Which is why Will Wright wants to backpedal the sophistication.

[gurrgkud 2]

Originally posted by: Duke87 With Simcity 5 "going back to the basics", not likely. Yes, it would be cool, but it would be another layer of complication that non-avid players would not want to deal with. I know a lot of people who prefer SC2 or 3 to SC4, since the newer games "just got too complicated to be fun". Which is why Will Wright wants to backpedal the sophistication.quote>

 

Maybe he should make another SimTown for them, and SimCity 5 for us, who not only take this as a fun game, but also as a hobby and lifestyle.

[landen99 0]

You know, I like the complication/realism, if only the game's gui was improved to reveal the proper mechanisms and aid in the control of the city, then it wouldn't really seem that complicated.  The hardest part is undertanding how each item works and realizing that Sims don't use common sense when it comes to many transportation issues.

So here are my suggestions:

1)  Allow mouse over any item in the consol to reveal a pop-up with the basic mechanisms and stats.  Improved access to more complete, clear, and concise help from the mouse-over of each respective item in the consol or on the ground and from the main help.  A Simtropolis interface within the game for in-game discussion and even image sharing for community support/recognition.

2)  Provide shortcuts for the toggling on and off of: buildings, roads/streets/highways/bus stops/parking lots/etc., tracks/subway/monorail/and their stations, usage/congestion (of everything toggled on).

3)  Provide shortcuts for changing levels in order to assist layering (i.e. subway lines crossing over-under at different elevations)

4)  Integrate the two query functions, query and route query, into one.

5)  Map rotation was much smoother, so that I could follow the object of interest without losing my orientation and perspective.

[SC4BOY 20]

Hmm.. just glancing down this set of messages, one flagrantly erroneous point that is being made here is about busses.. the truth is that

1. Busses DO NOT CONGEST EVER (even tho the stations can) This statement applies to the traffic artery (roads, streets, etc) but they probably do affect intersections and crossings. (I've not seen tests on this)

2. Busses don't follow "lines" each sim gets his very own "bus" that will take him from the stop he gets on to the nearest stop where he gets off.. The bus is purely virtual..

I forget about bus polution, so I won't comment on that..

Subways have also been tested, but I forget the specifics.. for one thing, a congested subway station does not "block" traffic like a bus station or train station will, but it will restrict the entrance/exit from the subway line (imagine that the line is "below" the station, not "thru" it)

Subway lines DO get turn red in the traffic overview, but the theoretically have no limit to travel. The only solution to red lines is alternate or parallel routes of some sort. Subway congestion can clearly be seen in the traffic map overlay and queries (tho road-top stations make it harder to see) I do not recall if anyone has shown that congested subway lines delay or impede traffic.. of course you may ask "why does it turn red" .. I for one just don't know.. 

Those of you who say you have lots of "red" subway lines should be able to conduct some fairly simple tests to determine if (given no other traffic changes) adding parallel lines and getting below "red" in the lines cause the overall commute times to stay steady or drop. This I would think would illustrate fairly clearly if it has an effect.

Monorail tracks and subway lines and EL tracks theoretically have no capacity limit. (independent of stations)

These points have been proven in city experiments and can be read about in the forums.

[cogeo 960]

Some amswers to your questions:

- Mass Transit in SC4 is very unrealistic, actually it works like taxis, eg a route can serve only 5 commuters.

- Buses do generate traffic, but because of the people they serve their total effect is advantageous. They are thought to triple the roads capacities.

- All transit networks (incl rail, el, subway and monorail) do have a set capacity, and if this capacity is exceeded they cause delays (the commute gets longer) and so they become less attractive. This is also the case for stations.

[gundamdude 0]

luijowhatever you cant spell. subways are supposed to be above da ground. doy dumb.

[Linda 0]

Originally posted by: gundamdude luijowhatever you cant spell. quote>

The word "can't" (as in "can not") is spelled with an apostrophe.

The word "cant" without an apostrophe means jargon, argot, hypocritically pious language or whining.

subways are supposed to be above da ground. .quote>

"Da" is not a word. The "sub" in "subway" is short for "subterranean", i.e. underground. So "subways" are by definition underground.

doy dumb.quote>

Huh? I don't understand your cant.

Everyone: my understanding of the SimCity transportation is that busses do not generate congestion or pollution, though they ARE affected by congestion (roads with lots of cars, and/or congested bus stops.) As SC4Boy says, the simulation treats them like taxis for simulation purposes: each sim gets thier own private bus, going point-to-point from one bus stop to another.

[hamsterTK 93]

well i would assume if the game behaves the way we think it does sims will jump off and walk to a parralel station and ride that line instead.

But even if it is theoretically possible, i hardly ever have luck with parralel transit routes. sims just like to use whichever is closer even if one takes forever.'

just curious, what does this thread have to do with Architecture and Urban Planning? its a pretty engaging topic but not for this particular board

[SC4BOY 20]

Originally posted by: cogeo Some amswers to your questions:

- Buses do generate traffic, but because of the people they serve their total effect is advantageous. They are thought to triple the roads capacities.quote>

I don' t think this is true based on my experience.. for example I have a city now with a STREET which would normally have a capacity of 200 (NAM 2X) that is running 1900 busses with no congestion. If busses cause congestion it is at a VERY HIGH multiple of normal traffic limits.

 

[organicsabre 1]

Originally posted by: Jasoncw subways can be congested, mine are all red

busses add to the road congestion, but I think for the number of people they move, it's less than cars.

I completely agree with Fax about the transit lines.  I try to make routes with my subways, and I even fake curves (real subways don't turn at 90 degree angles!).

In any large city, the underground has it's own life, from natural tunnels, utility (water, gas, electric) pipes, parking garages, basements, subway lines, etc. and over time all of these things combine into a complex web that affects where new underground things go, and even how heavy a building on top can be.quote>

Just think some skyscrapers foudnation can go 100-200m down into the ground, subways have to take that into account, then there are sewers etc. and all services and stormwater storage ins ome areas.