RTMT installation, dependencies and CAM

[Han Solo 34]

Paging Doctor @cogeo, a noob needs your help stat.

 

I'm currently trying to install Road Top Mass Transit but there's one bit that's tripping me up. Whilst R'ing the FM (noobs actually do that, who knew?), I'm getting a little confused when it comes to the dependencies. Specifically the "Description & datfiles" sections of the dependencies where you have to install one or the other but not both of a certain prop. For example, for Antoine Tram Stops TSC the readme list three dats. RTMTV3_PropS_GLR_TSC.dat, RTMTV3_APropBase_GLR_TSC.dat, RTMTV3_PropF_GLR_TSC.dat. The readme says "In the following tables, the single prop implementation are coloured BROWN, and the prop family implementations GREEN. Please install either implementation, BUT NOT BOTH!". The problem I'm having is that, having downloaded Antoine Tram Stops TSC, the download contains non of the listed dats or any dats for that matter... what am I missing? Do I need to extract the dats somehow?

 

I mention Colossus Addon Mod in the thread title. This is the second RTMT related issue I'm having. Due to issue detailed in the previous paragrapgh, I tried using the installer version of RTMT but during the install it asks me what NAM and CAM settings I'm using. I'm using InvisiChem's "Extended (InvisiChem)" settings which are not listed by the RTMT installer. At this point I'm not sure ho to proceed. If I'm using "Extended (InivisiChem)" does that mean that I cannot install RTMT (without compatibility issues)? Is the same true of the non installer version?

 

 

 

[rsc204 21,805]

14 hours ago, Han Solo said:

The problem I'm having is that, having downloaded Antoine Tram Stops TSC, the download contains non of the listed dats or any dats for that matter... what am I missing? Do I need to extract the dats somehow?

RTMT has a unique system that allows for easily customising many of the transit stations within it. So whilst you need to TSC files for have the model for the GLR Shelter, i.e. it's a dependency, the Prop-files it talks about are part of the RTMT package.

• PropS files are Single-Prop or where you want the same prop to always appear for a given prop type/station type.
• PropF files are Family props, i.e. use a prop family so you can have multiple props that will be randomly selected when a given station is placed.

For simplicities sake, you need the file "RTMTV3_APropBase_GLR_TSC.dat", which should be placed in the Props sub folder of RTMT. You can find this inside the .zip file "Optional Comonents.zip", inside the props folder, this file is included with the v3.60 addon for RTMT. You just need to keep the SC4Model file from the TSC Tram Shelter, although if you prefer you can keep the rest of that package and have the option to use this stop in addition to the RTMT version.

15 hours ago, Han Solo said:

during the install it asks me what NAM and CAM settings I'm using

This is because the original installer (3.5) is horrifically out of date. So just pick anything here, it doesn't matter. As you follow the instructions to add the v3.60 update, all such capacities will be overwritten with newer files, there are only two capacity setting which should be suitable for all uses now, Low or High. Refer to the documentation for a complete explanation, I'd recommend High is used however, Low will be removed from v4 for example. As we've learned more about how the game works, it's become clear that lower settings don't really make sense.

[Han Solo 34]

12 hours ago, rsc204 said:

RTMT has a unique system that allows for easily customising many of the transit stations within it. So whilst you need to TSC files for have the model for the GLR Shelter, i.e. it's a dependency, the Prop-files it talks about are part of the RTMT package.

So they are... It's a rather simple mistake but that's what I get for not installing everything in one go, I had to split it over two nights. 

 

12 hours ago, rsc204 said:

• PropS files are Single-Prop or where you want the same prop to always appear for a given prop type/station type.
• PropF files are Family props, i.e. use a prop family so you can have multiple props that will be randomly selected when a given station is placed.

For simplicities sake, you need the file "RTMTV3_APropBase_GLR_TSC.dat", which should be placed in the Props sub folder of RTMT. You can find this inside the .zip file "Optional Comonents.zip", inside the props folder, this file is included with the v3.60 addon for RTMT. You just need to keep the SC4Model file from the TSC Tram Shelter, although if you prefer you can keep the rest of that package and have the option to use this stop in addition to the RTMT version.

That all makes sense and I didn't even know there was a v3.60, so thanks for the heads up.

RE: individual props vs. prop families. This is something I've been meaning to brush up on. I'm getting red phone boxes popping up which stick out like a saw thumb in my north American style city... it's about time I found the cause and came up with a better way of organizing my plugins folder before it gets too big.

 

12 hours ago, rsc204 said:

This is because the original installer (3.5) is horrifically out of date. So just pick anything here, it doesn't matter. As you follow the instructions to add the v3.60 update, all such capacities will be overwritten with newer files, there are only two capacity setting which should be suitable for all uses now, Low or High. Refer to the documentation for a complete explanation, I'd recommend High is used however, Low will be removed from v4 for example. As we've learned more about how the game works, it's become clear that lower settings don't really make sense.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll be sure to, read the docs, install v3.60 (in one go) and use the high capacity option.

Thanks for the quick, informative and detailed answer @rsc204. This is yet another example of why simtropolis and the wider SC4 community is so great.

[rsc204 21,805]

3 minutes ago, Han Solo said:

I'm getting red phone boxes popping up which stick out like a saw thumb in my north American style city... it's about time I found the cause and came up with a better way of organizing my plugins folder before it gets too big

Look inside the Props folder of your RTMT folder. Just like with the tram shelter, there are many options. Look at how many files you have here which start "RTMTV3_Prop_PhoneBooth", you only need one such file, the idea is to remove those you aren't using. There should be an American one amongst the options, just make sure you have the dependency for it, though not all options require extra files. See the documentation for details on that.

[cogeo 960]

Thanks @rsc204 for replying.

A small correction here, to use the TSC tram stop in prop-family mode, you need:

- RTMTV3_APropBase_GLR_TSC.dat and RTMTV3_PropF_GLR_TSC.dat in the Props subfolder, and

- The model of the TSC tram stop. It is included in the package uploaded by the author, and used as a dependency in RTMT (and as @rsc204 said, you may keep or not keep the rest of the files, ie lots or sc4desc included in the package).

The two .dat files contain the prop exemplar, and they are almost identical, the only difference is that the latter includes the prop into the family, while the former does not. For the props you ARE using, the _APropBase_ files must be permanently installed in the props folder. The _PropF_ file determines whether the prop can be selected in the next plop. Take a look in SimGoober's bus-stops to figure out how it works. In the case of prop-families. the game selects the prop randomly. This is nice for props like parked cars or planters (variety), but for RTMT it looks bad, if you have so many different bus-stops in the same city - and especially two different props on the same bus-stop tile. If you have only one RTMTV3_PropF_Bus....dat file installed, the game will select this one in the next plop, because it will be the only member of the family - again, remember that the RTMTV3_APropBase_ file must be permanently installed. I use this to achieve a consistent look of bus stops, using one bus-stop model downtown, another one in the suburbs and probably different ones in special areas. The mechanism is quite awkward, I have to admit (requires saving, exiting and installing/uninstalling plugins), but does allow to select the model to be used in the next plop.

So, you can install the two TSC files now, use it, and if you later want to add another one, eg that very nice HD tram-stop by SimFox, you can just install its two files. The props on existing tram-stops will still be in place, while new plops will be using either TSC's or SimFox's one - or any of the two, depending on which RTMTV3_PropF_GLR_...dat file(s) is/are present while you plop the station.

As for the phone booth, as @rsc204 explained, you can select a different one. I prefer the smaller blue/yellow one, it's more discreet, its colors are not that bold, and has a much smaller visual footprint. You can even decide to have none (remove the phone booth prop-file), or reinstall or change it later; it's a single-mode prop only, and this will thus change the phone-booths in all RTMT lots in your city, new plops and already existing ones.

[rsc204 21,805]

22 hours ago, cogeo said:

The two .dat files contain the prop exemplar, and they are almost identical, the only difference is that the latter includes the prop into the family, while the former does not.

Thanks for the clarification, I got confused because I couldn't locate the PropS file which was mentioned in the documentation. Having just double-checked, that file "RTMT_PropS_GLR_TSC_Road.dat" does exist inside the file "RTMT Interim T-RAM Stations.zip". So if you prefer to single-prop version, then this is the .dat you should keep.

[Han Solo 34]

On 2/7/2018 at 9:51 PM, rsc204 said:

Look inside the Props folder of your RTMT folder. Just like with the tram shelter, there are many options. Look at how many files you have here which start "RTMTV3_Prop_PhoneBooth", you only need one such file, the idea is to remove those you aren't using. There should be an American one amongst the options, just make sure you have the dependency for it, though not all options require extra files. See the documentation for details on that.

I knew there was something I forgot to mention in my previous reply... I'm about 80% certain that the red phone boxes started popping up before I installed RTMT. So I think the phone box is part of another prop pack I've installed but when I have the time to install RTMT properly, I'm going to change the organization of my prop folder.

On 2/7/2018 at 10:24 PM, cogeo said:

*snip

Thank's for the quick reply @cogeo and the detailed explanation. I'll be sure to refer back to this reply next week, when I have the time to install RTMT and DAMN, which is somewhat complicated by the fact I use a Limited Windows account for security reasons and I'm syncing my game between two computers an my server (using Syncthing). So there's a lot of considerations I need to take into account on top of the learning curve of being new to the more complex plugins.

Also I must say thanks for your mention of using different prop models in different parts of the city/region... I hadn't thought of that but I'll definitely be using that idea. It should give that extra level of depth that I'm striving for.

 

[cogeo 960]

On 2/10/2018 at 12:00 AM, Han Solo said:

I knew there was something I forgot to mention in my previous reply... I'm about 80% certain that the red phone boxes started popping up before I installed RTMT. So I think the phone box is part of another prop pack I've installed but when I have the time to install RTMT properly, I'm going to change the organization of my prop folder.

The red phonebooth is a Maxis prop, used in many lots, either as a simple prop or included in a prop-family (along with the blue/yellow one, and another one which hardly looks like a phonebooth) and the game selects one of the three randomly. I remotely remember that they are wealth-dependent (the red one is $$$), but i'm unsure whether this actually works or is implemented this way). It is the same in all versions of the game, not only the European one.

[deanva 70]

Is there a left hand drive version (USA)? The one way bus stop is for right hand drive it looks like.

[rsc204 21,805]

Just so the information is here for posterity, the stops labelled as UK are for LHD users, I.e. where you have the cars driving on the left. RHD is the standard configuration, the names of these files omit the UK part.