Jump to content
v701

New graphic card, C:S worked better before...

41 posts in this topic Last Reply

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone,

So I just bought this graphic card: https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060-AERO-ITX-6G-OC.html#hero-overview

Previously I had a AMD Radeon HD 7800 series bought around 5 years ago, but I don't which one exactly of the serie though... But it has around 2GB of video memory, against 6 for the new one.

Concerning my computer I have 8GB DDR3 of RAM, and an Intel Core i5 3.1GHz, the motherboard is a MSI Z77A-G43 (MS-7758)1.0.

Except the new graphic card, all the components were bought together around 5 years ago.

So my problem is: 

With my former graphic card, Cities Skylines was becoming slowly, as I use a lot mods and add-ons. 

So after a while, I decided to buy a new one, not among the most expensive and performant ones, but one that will probably do the job way better. 

And it's not really what is happening. 

I attached the screenshots I took, on which we can see the weird graphic bugs I encounter while loading a city, and when it's loaded. 

When loading, the writings have a weird aspect, which is the same once the city appears. The screen and in-game low menu becomes normal when I click on whatever sub-menu I want, like the roads or the parks one... 

But then, I can put the graphics of the game at the maximum (still 1920x1080 because of my screen), or in lower quality, the game will still lag and freezes frequently, and more than what I remember with my former card. 

In the first place I realized I hadn't deleted well the drivers from the former card. So I deleted them all, uninstalled then reinstalled C:S and reinstalled the drivers of the new card, I even deleted some assets and mods from the game on my steam account. But nope, doesn't change anything. 

So I come asking the help of all you people, if someone knows why I encounter these problems, and how could I solve them. 

Thank you all, and long live Simtropolis!

*:ducky:

 

Loading.jpg

In Game.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • The graphic problem of the begining seems to be gone. But the game is still very slow.

    Here are tests of the FPS and GPU utilisation:

    58d2ea7ca4a65_FPSGPUingame2.thumb.jpg.c5ffb840ffdf369f9ae9e919d8a3dcdb.jpg58d2ea847631d_FPSGPUingame3.thumb.jpg.a94eb82034a3be8e197bd03ce73418ed.jpg58d2ea88c07d4_FPSGPUingame.thumb.jpg.9467c664700328aca9ce28864f0e2014.jpg

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    In my experience City Building games run better with more RAM and 8 GB seems to be on the mid side of specs for C:S

    Also, what assets and mods are you subscribed too? Some mods will inherently push up the CPU and RAM usage considerably. For loading C:S I had to get an extra 16 GB on top of the existing 16 GB I had to make 32 GB on my machine for the 81 tile mod.

    So, with that in tow, I would run the Resource Monitor on your system (It comes naturally with windows so no extra downloads required) and run that alongside the loading with C:S to see what resources are being used to capacity.

    IIRC you only need a new GFX when there are new fancy graphics mainly aimed at FPS and RPG games.

    Any game however that utilizes a large space geographically will inherently use more RAM to store material since when you build a city, until you save the only fast area you can store it is in RAM.

    I will be keen to see what results you get!

    -eggman121 (NAM Team member and part time C:S player)

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Mmh, thank you for your help.

    So the ram capacity of the graphic card actually doesn't change a lot for the fluidity of the game ?

    I still find it weird that the games goes slower and lags more with this new card than the previous one. I just hope that if I buy more RAM it'll actually make the card being used at more of its capacities, and not just keep the same problem with a slow game...

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    On 23/03/2017 at 11:46 AM, v701 said:

    So the ram capacity of the graphic card actually doesn't change a lot for the fluidity of the game ?

    Depends, how much of the RAM were you using before? That said moving from a Radeon 7800 to a modern NVidia I would expect better not worse performance, there are three reasons I can foresee that might cause this effect:

    • A new Graphics Card may not yet be fully optimised in terms of it's drivers. In any case make absolutely sure you've the latest ones from the Nvidia website for your card installed.
    • What type of vRAM the two cards have? i.e. which DDR revision, probably 4/5 in the case of the Radeon/Nvidia respectively. But if the NVidia was somehow a lower revision, it's memory may be greater, but it would be slower too.
    • Windows has a feature WDDM which in conjunction with DirectX manages a lot of aspects of your computer. Part of this is managing the available memory to a Graphics Card, since all of them may use system memory and/or share the vRAM of the card with the system in certain circumstances.

      The short answer here is that with only 8GB system memory (RAM), a card with 6GB vRAM is unlikely to perform at its best. It's like trying to put a big V12 engine in a small car, the rest of the car isn't really up to the task of handling the V12's power.

    If you want to really push the modding side, that's where a beefier graphics card may come into play. Looking at the monitoring application, you are hitting the limits of your GPU for moments, but for the most part the GPU is under-utilised.

    If you want to have lots of Cims, that's where a better CPU will be needed to perform all the necessary calculations. Find a similar monitoring app for the CPU, actually as Eggman pointed out, you can use the Windows one, Resource monitor here. Is your CPU maxed out when playing?

    Check the RAM usage too. Whilst it doesn't do the calculations nor display anything you see, it works much like a buffer between the two. I'd recommend adding another 8GB RAM minimum, perhaps going to 32GB ideally, Skylines is terribly CPU/RAM intensive, the biggest performance gains for the least money will likely come from RAM and adding an SSD (see below). Since RAM is reasonably cheap and easy to replace, I'd start there. But a new CPU is always a problem, because Intel change the sockets every couple years. So you won't likely be able to buy a new replacement, without a new motherboard. At that point things can start to get real expensive. There is always a balance here, a point where the cost of upgrading may not be worth it based on the performance gains you will see. But in the first instance you need to find the bottleneck in your system.

    But the general point here is that without a balanced system in terms of it's components, a great video card can't compensate for any shortcomings with your other hardware.

    Lastly, if you are using a spinning disk (traditional) hard drive, you can expect slower performance too. If you do, it will almost certainly be your systems #1 bottleneck, an SSD will resolve this problem, provided you've a port fast enough to utilise one (SATA3 ideally as a minimum). Using an SSD for Windows and moving your normal disk for storage can make a world of difference. Plus 100€ will be sufficient for a 256GB fast SSD, making it a reasonable cost, especially considering the performance gains.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Ok, thank you all for your help.

    Unfortunately I hqd to move abroad for work for 6 months and I couldn't bring my computer with me (only my laptop), so I won't be able to try anything new with my problem before a long time. I keep this post for when I'll be able to use again my computer and I'll see if I add more RAM to it.

    As far as I remember the RAM usage was quite high, but not necessarily at the max all the time. The CPU usage was high as well, on the 4 core (is that how we say?), so Idk if the problem only comes from the RAM, or maybe the processor, or the graphic card, or all of them...

    I'm also annoyed by the graphic weird displaying thing I had when I loaded the game, as you can see on the first pics, with the in-game menu bar on the downside of the screen. 

    Anyway, thank you again and I'll try to post again when I'll have it back, hope you'll be there.

    *:ducky:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    The way I understand it and have seen my system utilized is below, copied from a reddit post I replied to a week or so ago.  Someone was asking about the bottleneck source on his system which is only moderately related to your issue, but this may be helpful anyway:
     

    Quote

     

    The primary simulation bottleneck is CPU. That is, the ability to calculate the routes of traffic etc. for all agents in the simulation, as well as the other computations the game has to do. Many mods affect this, usually by requiring the CPU to calculate more things. C:S is surprisingly well multi-threaded, such that a 4 core processor will help you out. As has been already stated, more than 4 reaches into the realm of diminishing returns, but this is common with almost all video games at this state of development.


    I think what most people (here) are limited by is GPU , since the average C:S redditor has a bunch of assets with really nice textures, possibly a 4K theme, etc. The actual GPU processing power is not utilized as much, and this is what people mean when they say an average mid-tier graphics card will do fine.


    When the game loads it puts as many assets as it can into GPU VRAM, using RAM as a backup. For example I have around 1800 assets and I fill my 8GB VRAM easily, since the total memory usage is somewhere around 16 GB. In my case I don't benefit much from more RAM than 16GB, since I only use about 8GB of it (with the other 8GB of game storage going into VRAM). That said, I have 32GB to make sure I don't use the pagefile (using HDD or SSD for memory - super slow).


    I'd suggest a test to see what your bottleneck is. Open a map with a big city, lots of textures, and lots of cims. While paused, move the camera about, zoom in, etc. If you get hitches/frame drops you likely have a graphics/memory bottleneck. If you're fine there but you only get hiccups while the simulation is running, you likely have a CPU bottleneck.
    If you have a CPU bottleneck your only recourse is to buy a faster CPU (or more cores).

     

    As far as why your newer graphics card made things worse that's hard to answer because it's unexpected, especially since it has more VRAM than your old one.

    Also, I've seen that graphical glitch on my menus and loading screen as well, but it almost always goes away either after the map has actually loaded or I've played for a few minutes.  I don't have much insight on that one.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Well, that actually can help for when I will have my comp back. I'll check again into this. 

    For the graphical glitch, in my case it goes away when I click on a part of the down in-game menu, like roads, areas or whatever so it wasn't annoying while playing but just weird, in addition to the other problems, after updating the old graphic card to a better new one, which also cost me good money...

    So anyway, I'll keep looking when I can and thanks to all of you !

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Hello everybody, I just go home for this easter week-end, so I'm gonna work on this graphic card problem.

    I'm gonna read again all your comments and try different tests.

    I'll keep you informed very soon !

    *:ducky:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Ok everybody, here is the situation:

    On 23/03/2017 at 8:55 AM, Eggman121 said:

    In my experience City Building games run better with more RAM and 8 GB seems to be on the mid side of specs for C:S

    Also, what assets and mods are you subscribed too? Some mods will inherently push up the CPU and RAM usage considerably. For loading C:S I had to get an extra 16 GB on top of the existing 16 GB I had to make 32 GB on my machine for the 81 tile mod.

    So, with that in tow, I would run the Resource Monitor on your system (It comes naturally with windows so no extra downloads required) and run that alongside the loading with C:S to see what resources are being used to capacity.

    IIRC you only need a new GFX when there are new fancy graphics mainly aimed at FPS and RPG games.

    Any game however that utilizes a large space geographically will inherently use more RAM to store material since when you build a city, until you save the only fast area you can store it is in RAM.

    I will be keen to see what results you get!

    -eggman121 (NAM Team member and part time C:S player)

    I subscribed around 1035 assets on the Workshop, including around 40 mods, like Traffic Manager, 81tiles etc...

    Concerning the usages, here is a serie a screenshots I just took, usage Resource Monitor and MSI Afterburner:

    58f103fba7839_Processorusage.thumb.jpg.438f10e054bfa47163e5989aea74038d.jpg58f10464164cc_RAMusage2.thumb.jpg.e24264147272447817045fdfee606e6a.jpg58f1046cd49aa_CPUusageplaying.thumb.jpg.47bb3c1be40c923b50864526386dbc0e.jpg58f1047878ace_RAMUsage.thumb.jpg.b49706138659c01f76ca2f17d8b91e1f.jpg58f10492b9988_CPUtC.thumb.jpg.5f5d627ceb53faf1ddcfce5ecbd1bb71.jpg58f1040655509_RAMressourcemonitor.thumb.jpg.d482a0763029de11195c1d3b4834d7d5.jpg

    The CPU usage while the game is paused go down at around 60% through MSI Afterburner.

    On 24/03/2017 at 9:50 AM, rsc204 said:

    Depends, how much of the RAM were you using before? That said moving from a Radeon 7800 to a modern NVidia I would expect better not worse performance, there are three reasons I can foresee that might cause this effect:

    • A new Graphics Card may not yet be fully optimised in terms of it's drivers. In any case make absolutely sure you've the latest ones from the Nvidia website for your card installed.
    • What type of vRAM the two cards have? i.e. which DDR revision, probably 4/5 in the case of the Radeon/Nvidia respectively. But if the NVidia was somehow a lower revision, it's memory may be greater, but it would be slower too.
    • Windows has a feature WDDM which in conjunction with DirectX manages a lot of aspects of your computer. Part of this is managing the available memory to a Graphics Card, since all of them may use system memory and/or share the vRAM of the card with the system in certain circumstances.

      The short answer here is that with only 8GB system memory (RAM), a card with 6GB vRAM is unlikely to perform at its best. It's like trying to put a big V12 engine in a small car, the rest of the car isn't really up to the task of handling the V12's power.

    If you want to really push the modding side, that's where a beefier graphics card may come into play. Looking at the monitoring application, you are hitting the limits of your GPU for moments, but for the most part the GPU is under-utilised.

    If you want to have lots of Cims, that's where a better CPU will be needed to perform all the necessary calculations. Find a similar monitoring app for the CPU, actually as Eggman pointed out, you can use the Windows one, Resource monitor here. Is your CPU maxed out when playing?

    Check the RAM usage too. Whilst it doesn't do the calculations nor display anything you see, it works much like a buffer between the two. I'd recommend adding another 8GB RAM minimum, perhaps going to 32GB ideally, Skylines is terribly CPU/RAM intensive, the biggest performance gains for the least money will likely come from RAM and adding an SSD (see below). Since RAM is reasonably cheap and easy to replace, I'd start there. But a new CPU is always a problem, because Intel change the sockets every couple years. So you won't likely be able to buy a new replacement, without a new motherboard. At that point things can start to get real expensive. There is always a balance here, a point where the cost of upgrading may not be worth it based on the performance gains you will see. But in the first instance you need to find the bottleneck in your system.

    But the general point here is that without a balanced system in terms of it's components, a great video card can't compensate for any shortcomings with your other hardware.

    Lastly, if you are using a spinning disk (traditional) hard drive, you can expect slower performance too. If you do, it will almost certainly be your systems #1 bottleneck, an SSD will resolve this problem, provided you've a port fast enough to utilise one (SATA3 ideally as a minimum). Using an SSD for Windows and moving your normal disk for storage can make a world of difference. Plus 100€ will be sufficient for a 256GB fast SSD, making it a reasonable cost, especially considering the performance gains.

    As yo ucan see on the pictures, the RAM usage is too high for the capacity I have, as the usage of CPU. My new graphic card has a DDR5 memory type, and my 8GB RAM are DDR3. The game and Windows are both installed on a SSD SATA 3, as well as Steam.

    On 03/04/2017 at 8:55 PM, Rotype said:

    The way I understand it and have seen my system utilized is below, copied from a reddit post I replied to a week or so ago.  Someone was asking about the bottleneck source on his system which is only moderately related to your issue, but this may be helpful anyway:
     

    Quote

     

    The primary simulation bottleneck is CPU. That is, the ability to calculate the routes of traffic etc. for all agents in the simulation, as well as the other computations the game has to do. Many mods affect this, usually by requiring the CPU to calculate more things. C:S is surprisingly well multi-threaded, such that a 4 core processor will help you out. As has been already stated, more than 4 reaches into the realm of diminishing returns, but this is common with almost all video games at this state of development.


    I think what most people (here) are limited by is GPU , since the average C:S redditor has a bunch of assets with really nice textures, possibly a 4K theme, etc. The actual GPU processing power is not utilized as much, and this is what people mean when they say an average mid-tier graphics card will do fine.


    When the game loads it puts as many assets as it can into GPU VRAM, using RAM as a backup. For example I have around 1800 assets and I fill my 8GB VRAM easily, since the total memory usage is somewhere around 16 GB. In my case I don't benefit much from more RAM than 16GB, since I only use about 8GB of it (with the other 8GB of game storage going into VRAM). That said, I have 32GB to make sure I don't use the pagefile (using HDD or SSD for memory - super slow).


    I'd suggest a test to see what your bottleneck is. Open a map with a big city, lots of textures, and lots of cims. While paused, move the camera about, zoom in, etc. If you get hitches/frame drops you likely have a graphics/memory bottleneck. If you're fine there but you only get hiccups while the simulation is running, you likely have a CPU bottleneck.
    If you have a CPU bottleneck your only recourse is to buy a faster CPU (or more cores).

     

    As far as why your newer graphics card made things worse that's hard to answer because it's unexpected, especially since it has more VRAM than your old one.

    Also, I've seen that graphical glitch on my menus and loading screen as well, but it almost always goes away either after the map has actually loaded or I've played for a few minutes.  I don't have much insight on that one.

    I still had the graphical glitch as usual, which went away when I clicked on a menu.

    Concerning the post you quoted, I would say I have both issues. When I just loaded my city, I paused it and zoomed in and out, moved around, and I got a lot of hitches and I guess the frame rate was low. When the game is running, I got a lot of hiccups, like these traffic cams which deliver an image per second, except that here the vehicles don't move between two pictures.

    So according to your different posts, and what I get from MSI Afterburner and the Resource Monitor, is that I seem to have both problems of RAM and CPU.

    Which doesn't please my wallet...

    I still don't understand why is this problem more annoying with a new and more powerfull graphic card, than with the one I had.

    Anyway, just tell me what you think about it, I'll ask into some computer/components shops to have more opinions as well, and I'll see what should I do.

    Thank you all again, sorry for the long post, and easter week-end for the ones who celebrate it, for the others just a good week-end in general !

    *:ducky:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    It does look like your main bottleneck is the CPU. There is some free RAM available, but I wouldn't count that out without seeing more detailed information. I.e. what's happening over a longer period of play.

    As for why the new Graphics Card comes off worse than your old one, actually that could be explained by the fact that it's more powerful. In order to inter-operate with the machine it requires more work from your CPU than the old card did. Hence it's adding to the bottleneck in the system as a result. Almost everything your PC does needs to go through the Bus on your motherboard and will take runtime from the CPU to work. Even though for most dedicated hardware, that places minimal strain on it a few percent could mean all the difference. Having the shiny new graphics card isn't doing a lot for you, because it would seem the rest of the system can not keep up with it's capabilities.

    For example, how does game content get from your HDD onto your VideoCards VRAM? It would probably need to be buffered through the RAM of your system. But if your system has only 8GB, and the GPU has 6GB, considering the O/S and other overhead requirements at play. In practise you'd not have sufficient RAM to process this data into VRAM to fully utilise it. In short, this is why it's important to balance your system components for optimal inter-operability. It's probably more of an issue with C:S, since it's so CPU intensive. GPU intensive games would probably fare much better under this setup.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Damn, so to solve this CPU problem I should change my processor ? What kind of processor should I put ? I guess this gonna cost me a lot... 

    I can start by adding RAM to see if it helps a bit...

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    What exact CPU are you using right now? Because you can't just change a processor. The socket on your mainboard will only support CPUs from about 1 or 2 years usually. So if you want to go from a 1st Gen Core i to a new 7th Gen part, that'll mean a new Motherboard, because that won't fit in your existing board.

    If you have something low end, then you might find an upgrade (to a second hand compatible part) a cost effective solution. But let's know exactly what we're dealing with first.

    What we need is something like this:

    Core i7 4770

    Which you can get from the System properties in Control Panel (quick way, press Windows Key + Print Screen together).

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I agree with @rsc204, it looks like your CPU is slammed which will cascade onto everything else in the system.

    It looks like you're on a MOBO with an LGA 1155 socket.  It's somewhat old, but if you're trying to upgrade without buying a new MOBO you could probably look for a decent CPU that will fit and realize improvements.  Let us know what you have now and we can advise further.  You're not super future proof that way but it is likely the cheapest way to find the next bottleneck :).

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Ok rsc204,

    11 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    What exact CPU are you using right now? Because you can't just change a processor. The socket on your mainboard will only support CPUs from about 1 or 2 years usually. So if you want to go from a 1st Gen Core i to a new 7th Gen part, that'll mean a new Motherboard, because that won't fit in your existing board.

    If you have something low end, then you might find an upgrade (to a second hand compatible part) a cost effective solution. But let's know exactly what we're dealing with first.

    What we need is something like this:

    Core i7 4770

    Which you can get from the System properties in Control Panel (quick way, press Windows Key + Print Screen together).

    Here is what I have (sorry it's in french):

    58f1d4df62a61_InfosPC.jpg.9571c3dc6bd756b8621673562c738ad8.jpg

    The Socket is a 1155 LGA, @Rotype you were right and the processor has 4 cores.

    Concerning the MOBO, it's an MSI Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) 1.0, with a BIOS version 2.5, in date of 08/31/2012.

    Idk if these last infos will be usefull for you.

     

    Thank you all for your help, once again !

     

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    So after a little research, I don't think there is anything inherently bad about your CPU, it's after all a fairly decent Ivy Bridge part. In practise what this means is that even if you go totally nuts and replace it with a top of the line i7 from today, you are looking at maybe 20-25% performance gains. The cost of such an improvement, around 500€-600€ or put another way, a total waste of your money IMO.

    It does seem that your MSI board was a budget offering, as a result it's performance is amongst the worst performing z77 boards when tested. But, rather than read the hype in the reviews, which knock the board for being slower than others, you need to consider it was also much cheaper. You get what you pay for, but that doesn't mean that a board upgrade is really going to make a world of difference either. There is a place for cheaper, slower boards, the entire world doesn't need to overclock and get every ounce of performance from a system. Many people just want a reliable cost-effective PC. Yes a better quality Ivy Bridge (1155) board would likely eek out more performance from your current system. The price could be reasonable too, since realistically you are looking at a second hand part. But, let's say that's 10% improvement for 100€, that board still wouldn't take a newer CPU. There is an argument that it's better to spend a bit more on a modern board that supports the latest 7th Gen "Kaby Lake" parts. But then we jump back to the 500€-600€ cost again, because you'll need a mainboard, CPU and possibly new RAM too. Since modern systems support DDR4 RAM, you'd be mad to invest in one and settle for slower DDR3, once again bottlenecking your system from the get-go.

    The real question here is how badly do you want, or how much are you willing to pay, to play C:S with better performance? Because unless you are running a bunch of other software that is also not running as you'd like, that's really what this boils down to. In the meantime, I'd look into the following:

    • Make sure you are running the NVidia GPU in the correct PCI-e socket, it will fit into 2 of the slots on your board, but performance will be ruined if you don't use the primary socket which has more bandwidth to the main system bus.
      It's the top one you should be using, nearest the CPU. Since the lower one has only 2 lanes of the system bus, opposed to the 16 of the top socket.
    • Disable all your C:S mods, how does this change performance? Some mods which aren't well coded can eat stupid amounts of resources. It's worth checking at this stage you don't have such a mod causing problems.
    • Consider adding another 8GB RAM. Whilst it may not look like the cause of your problems, you may be surprised at the difference. By comparison, this will cost you about 50€ and should be a worthy investment. Assuming you don't plan to buy a new PC.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Pretty good advice above.  The only thing I'll expand on is the fact that with 8GB RAM and I'm guessing a good amount of assets from the workshop you're definitely using the page file (system uses a storage drive for RAM). This will be very slow.  In general I'd say up your RAM (just buy another stick of the exact same kind you already have to avoid compatibility issues).  It will help some, but as @rsc204 said you're at a point where a system refresh may be needed to realize significant improvement.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Ok, @rsc204 & @Rotype, thanks for your help, I'm gonna try a new empty map, without the assets/the mods/ none of them and check the differences. I certainly won't have the money to change CPU and MOBO in the follwing months, and it'll take me time to look at it deeply to avoid any other mistake in the selection. So I guess I'm gonna start by adding RAM in the first place, which doesn't seem to be very expensive. 

    I'll keep you informed very soon, thanks again !

    *:ducky:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    No problem.  If you do (eventually) get to building a new PC feel free to ask for advice (either publicly or PM).  I really enjoy spec'ing out and building PCs.

     

    Good luck!

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • And without anything58f641334093c_Nomodsnoassets1.thumb.jpg.a256e6250a7a62050f13dd15c0a45429.jpg58f6412558797_Nomodsnoassets2.thumb.jpg.e8e09690724ffc24e2a599c77ab929c7.jpg58f641174f53f_Nomodsnoassets3.thumb.jpg.b868932a85690d2c188e46afe2b90e29.jpg

    So, I went to a computer shop, and basically the guy didn't know C:S and was surprised I needed more RAM or new CPU according to the basic needs for the basic game. I explained him that the problem was with all the mods and assets, etc. So he showed me DDR3 RAM which would be 60€ for another 8GB (in 2 x 4GB, to occupy all the slots, better apparently). He also suggested to check if the graphic card wasn't "too much" for the game, which I don't think. And concerning changing the CPU and MOBO, that would probably reach about 500/600€ easily, as said before from @rsc204.

    In addition of a potential new CPU and MOBO, I'll have to rebuy RAM because of DDR4 format, which for 16GB would be around 110€ minimum.

    So I guess I will wait to change CPU and MOBO, and I'm gonna try with an additional 8GB and will start with this for the moment.

    I'll take you informed when done, to see if there were any improvements !

    Thanks again to you @rsc204 & @Rotype

    *:ducky:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I've only really briefly skimmed through here, but I didn't see it mentioned yet so I thought I'd throw it out there:

    Have you checked your power supply? I know the 970/1070 and newer Nvidia cards actually have substantially lower power requirements than some of the older cards, but I'm not sure if the 1060 generation have the same boon or if they still need a lot of power. It could be that your older power supply isn't up to the task of getting the new GPU the juice it needs, and I've seen that actually throw off monitoring values for hardware before (though, it shouldn't). Also, along a similar line, if your GPU was a bottleneck before and it isn't any more, it can make your total power consumption worse as now the other components are the ones playing catch-up.

    A couple years ago I decided to get a new card, went from a Radeon (can't for the life of me remember which one) to a GTX 970 and saw only about a 5% performance improvement in Project CARS (the main sim I was playing at the time). I knew it wasn't right so I dug in to the issue, and while my CPU was a slight bottleneck, it turned out my power supply was ailing. It wasn't a bottleneck, spec-wise, but it was on its last legs and the new card being faster (despite needing less power itself) was resulting in the CPU now trying to keep up, taking more power than previously, and pushing my PSU over the edge. I discovered that issue too late, and when the PSU finally went it took my CPU and mainboard with it. Thankfully my brand new (at the time) GPU was fine.

    The silver lining was that since I had to rebuild anyways I was able to upgrade the entire computer. Only hardware in it, aside from the new GPU, that was in my old build is the RAM - which I'm going to replace some time soon as well as I'm upgrading the GPU again (shiny new GTX 1080 arrived this time last week :D Just need to get some freelance work off my plate so I have the time to install it).

    Anyways, if no one has mentioned it yet, just double check your PSU is up to the task of powering the new GPU, along with all your other components.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Thank you for this advice. I don't know if you saw but the CPU usage is slightly above 100% when playing on a big city, so it's probably reaching its limits anyway, but maybe then the PSU is getting just as well. How could i check this out ? 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    That's a good point, if you're power supply is unable to power the CPU it will throttle itself, which will make it look like your CPU isn't powerful enough.  I've never had an issue with PSU's but there are probably some telemetry points you can find to see if that's happening.

    First though you should probably find out what wattage your PSU was built for.  Hopefully it's on a label on the outside of the computer on (near where you plug the main power cable in).  If not, it will be on a label inside your computer on the PSU.

    As far as determining if your PSU is crapping out on you you'll probably have to find some telemetry to monitor.  I'm not sure if there are any in MSI afterburner; I use HWINFO.

    I'm at work now so I can't look into it much more until I get home and can poke around HWINFO for useful things to look at.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Hey guys,

    Sorry I didn't got that much time to check on the PSU.

    So I just checked on the description of my new graphic card and it says it needs 120W for consumption.

    I also took a picture of what is written on my PSU box:P_20170426_185631-12.thumb.jpg.33930f43b410f49a7cc54fbe6fd0a558.jpg

    Also I did this small test with the AfterBurner, and it's obvious that the card works well using only a bit of RAM, so I imagine the RAM is definitely a big issue.

    Now I remember that the guy of the shop told me to check if my card was not "too much" for the game. But I really don't think it is, because I guess some players are using more powerfull ones, especially some youtubers, and it runs very well. Anyway, I don't really know how to check this.

    5900fdf92e698_TestMSIAfterBurner.thumb.jpg.d64db8f2fe3808bcc5953ae65cfb85d8.jpg

    So I'm gonna try a small software like HWinfo to see if my PSU is reaching its limits or not.

    If not I guess I'll try to add 8Gb of RAM and see if it goes better.

    Thank you all again, see you soon.

    *:ducky:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Hey guys,

    Just to tell you that I added 8GB or RAM last weekend, which didn't really changed anything, at least on the big cities which are still too heavy for 16GB or RAM.

    The last event is that Windows just crashed suddenly and won't restart, only let me trying all the available options on the "recuperation" page, but without succeeding to restart Windows and to access my desk.

    So the computer just left to computer assistance shop to see what's wrong... I just hope it's too bad and that's it's not gonna cost me too much.

    I'll keep you inform if the time to renew the whole thing is arrived earlier than I thought!

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    On 26/04/2017 at 10:09 PM, v701 said:

    So I just checked on the description of my new graphic card and it says it needs 120W for consumption.

    That's the graphics card alone, you need to add up the consumption of everything in your PC, then it will give you an idea of how many  W your PSU should need to handle. Here is a handy site which will calculate this for you if you tell it about your PC. Your current PSU is 430W, so you should make sure the recommended PSU for your system does not exceed that.

    4 hours ago, v701 said:

    he last event is that Windows just crashed suddenly and won't restart, only let me trying all the available options on the "recuperation" page, but without succeeding to restart Windows and to access my desk.

    Since new RAM has just gone in there, my first job would be to remove it and see if everything is back to normal. If the RAM is improperly configured, or just doesn't match the existing sticks very well, that can cause instability.

    But honestly, I don't think that's your problem. Does it BSOD when you are about to load the desktop? Then go into a loop? I'm seeing this recently with NVidia cards and Windows 7 and I worry it's a windows update behind the problem. In that case, the PC could boot into safe mode, so we knew the system was fine. It would boot Windows, once the NVidia drivers were removed entirely from the system (using the Windows default drivers worked). But, even when a known-working old version of NVidia's drivers was added, we ended up back at the reboot cycle once more. I didn't get to go any further as my friend in this case needed the PC, so we chucked an ATI card in there so he could worry about it later.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • Hi,

    @rsc204 So I just checked the link you sent for the PSU and it looks like my PSU has enough power for my components. I already tried on another similar website and it was ok as well, but thanks for the link.

    Concerning the RAM I would find it weird it comes from it, as it worked few days without any problem after I installed the new one, I guess it would have stopped working directly ?

    And yes I got the BSoD while I was using it, suddenly, and since then doesn't go further, even though I tried all the options available to restart, reinitialize etc, nothing had effect so I brought it to a computer assistance shop and I'm waiting for some news...

    I'll keep you inform !

    On 05/05/2017 at 4:46 PM, Ryno917 said:

    Sorry to hear, good luck with it, mate!
     

    Thanks for your support as well ! 

    This looks like the screen I had, and then land on a "recuperation" screen, Idk how you actually call it in english. But with all the options available to restart windows and get to the desk, nothing worked.

    windows10_qrcode.png.fb78c34295e5cb4b9b3d36ff7060d87f.png

     

    *:ducky:  

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    It could be that something has broken hardware wise, but it could just as easily be the result of a software problem.

    Either way, if you've taken it to a shop, there's not a lot of point in going into it in depth. I'm sure those people will be able to get to the bottom of it better than we can remotely. Best of luck and I hope it can be restored without great expense.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an Account  

    Sign up to join our friendly community. It's easy!  

    Register a New Account

    Sign In  

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now


    • Recently Browsing   0 members

      No registered users viewing this page.

    ×

    Help Keep Simtropolis Online, Open & Free!

    stexcollection-header.png

    Would you be able to help us catch up after a bit of a shortfall?

    We had a small shortfall last month. Your donation today would help us catch up for this month.

    Make a Donation, Get a Gift!

    We need to continue to raise enough money each month to pay for expenses which includes hardware, bandwidth, software licenses, support licenses and other necessary 3rd party costs.

    By way of a "Thank You" gift, we'd like to send you our STEX Collector's DVD. It's some of the best buildings, lots, maps and mods collected for you over the years. Check out the STEX Collections for more info.

    Each donation helps keep Simtropolis online, open and free!

    Thank you for reading and enjoy the site!

    More About STEX Collections