The SimTropolis House of Worship

[sc4portugal 10]

I'm cathlic but i'm cathlic, you know what i meen i don't belive evreyting in the bible nor am I conservative.

[thesonofgray 0]

Originally posted by: frndofyaweh The Bible calls Homosexuality an abomination, but that does not mean it is called sin. Abomination means: to make one sick. To cuase one to vomit out the bad things. The Bible also calls eating shellfish an abomination.

I have a sneaking suspicion that gay men don't like clams anywaysquote>

frndofyaweh!  You've developed a dirty mind since a year ago!  Or maybe it's just me...as usual. 

And, btw, I don't like clams.

Creationism DOES NOT BELIEVE, THAT THE WORLD IS 6000 yrs OLD.quote>

Maybe not, but doesn't it claim the Earth and everything on it was created in 7 days?  I think we established that on page 452823947439 of this thread.  And I think that is more outlandish than the whole 6000 years old thing (I thought it was 7000?).

Anyways, I'm not on this forum anymore.

*slowly backs out of room*

[mikex182 0]

PRAIIIIISE THE LORD!!!!!!!! lol

[Deever 23]

It's not like these various sects of Christianity have differences that are so great that they are treated as totally different religions as well. The only difference I see is that the believers look at Christianity at a different point of view from each other, but if you think about it we're just viewing the same thing.

Case and point?

Protestants, Catholics, Born Agains... what the heck is the major difference--we're all CHRISTIANS just the same. We may exercise our faith in different ways or forms, but we practice them in the name of the same higher power.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Thesonofgray: Well I may believe in God and all, but my mind isn't perfect, it gets dirty all the time and I have to clean it out.

I agree Deever.

 I state loudly my point of view, but in the end we are all just Christians. All that really matters is you accept Jesus for who He proclaims He is. The rest falls into place for those who want it.

It's a personal thing and like DOXXP29 said also; It's a free world. We are just offering our Philosophy on it, I suppose.

EDIT: I would like to say something, I am not really trying to convince anyone that Christians are right or God Exists.

What I really am trying to say with all my wild statements is; Researching the possibilities of the Bible as fact, is astounding. It's the coolest prophetic stuff you will ever read.

People who love to read horiscopes, philosophy, Nostradamus even, should find the Bible ten times more intriguing. The things that match up and raise the hairs on your neck, are far more convincing than any of Nostra's Qautrains.

Oh yes, I have read them and the one about two twin buildings twisting in the wind and falling is very eerie. Nostardamus was Catholic/Jew among many other things.

[Deever 23]

AHEM! To the folks at the religion thread in current events, I would suggest you move your friendly argumentations here. I just did.

Just to clarify: All the things written below, down to the word 'rolling', are my opinions, okay?

Anyway, on the Christian Bible topic thing:

Some of you might say that these things or events depicted in the bible are 'miracle grade' events, to the extent that some would think: "It's a miracle!", or maybe: "Dude, that's exaggerated. That can't be true. It's wrong."

The info I gathered (whether it came from my own research, school, or National Geographic), made me come up with one conclusion: the stuff written in the bible shouldn't be understood literally, instead, they should be understood figuratively and at the same time merge those events with down-to-earth explanations (or as some of you would rather hear: science). Exhibit A: The parting of the water Moses event thing. What you understand as a body of water splitting itself into two, I understand as low tide. Exhibit B: The creation event thing (And on the sixth day, God made this and that etc.). What you understand as a higher power painting the skies and making rocks float to the surface, I see as the Big Bang.

I'd present more 'exhibits' but that would mess up my statement.

El punto: When you read the bible, learn to read between the lines. Everything in that book shouldn't be understood literally. The writers of the book just wanted to present their knowledge in a figurative manner. It must have been the fad of their day or something. And another thing, you don't have to find a scientific explanation for everything that is written in the bible. What is important is that you understand the morals, values, and lessons shown by those stories.

Ok, this is my agnostic/deist side talking now (I'm really thinking of converting).

Looking at the higher power from an agnostic/deist angle (what's the difference between the two anyway?):

God (capital G God) may not exist, Buddha may not exist, Allah may not exist, but I'm 100 percent sure that there's a higher power out there.

Let's assume we came into being thanks to the Big Bang. According to the Big Bang, everything in the universe was compacted into such a small space (probably atom-size space) and then BOOM! All sorts of matter scattered all over the place (and you know the rest). I ask you this: where did all that compacted matter come from in the first place? It couldn't just appear like that on itself. Someone place that compacted matter there. Someone started the ball rolling.

... I wasted 45 minutes of my life on this and I love it!

[DanWalker8 3]

There are more atheists than jews in america. However there is only 1 member of the house of representatives who is open about his doubt in religion. I am not represented as an atheist. It is a damn shame that science has brought us this far, yet to take it with you into elected office is suicide.

[neder 1]

this is from genesis in the passage about Sodom:

Early the next morning the two angels tried to make Lot hurry and leave. They said, "Take your wife and your two daughters and get out of here as fast as you can! If you don't, every one of you will be killed when the LORD destroys the city." 16At first, Lot just stood there. But the LORD wanted to save him. So the angels took Lot, his wife, and his two daughters by the hand and led them out of the city. 17When they were outside, one of the angels said, "Run for your lives! Don't even look back. And don't stop in the valley. Run to the hills, where you will be safe."

Exodus:

When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.

more from Exodus:

Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.

and more:

But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.

and more:

Anyone who attacks his father or his mother must be put to death.

and:

Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

and:

Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

and  ... I can keep going, you might aswell just read exodus in full. It's all pretty much about killing others.

book of Liviticus:

If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

and:

If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

and:

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

bah ... just read Leviticus aswell

book of numbers:

They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man.

more:

Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them.  "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

actually ... I might aswell just copy the whole thing

As I remember it moses got 2 stonetablets with commandments on them and one of them reads:

thou shall not kill.

How is this not contradictive?

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: IDS2 **points at prayer cloth guy selling $1,000 "blessed" cloths**quote>

Well, that in itself would be considered a sin. You're not supposed to sell something that's been blessed. You can give it to someone as a gift, but you can't charge for it.

Goldfish4209I go to a christian school, and the teachers don't consider catholics christians. Anyone wanna comment?quote>

There are several groups of radical protestants that firmly hold that unless one follows their specific religious group they're going to hell. Such thinking never really made much sense to me, though, since that would mean that only a tiny fraction of the world's population has any chance of achieving salvation. Way too elitist for my tastes.

----------------------------

I personally (as an atheist) look at the Bible as a sort of historical fiction. A lot of it has basis in events that we know actually happened or have empirical reason to believe actually happened. But beyond that, it's either exaggerated or made up.

Frankly, I would really like to see classes offered by colleges teaching the bible in a secular light, such as an English class. If my school had one, it would certainly be my choice for an English elective which I'm required to take despite being an engineering major.

To this end, I'd also love to see a secular version of the bible published, including annotations linking the text to actual history, and what may have inspired some of the stories. Including the gnostic gospels as an appendix would also be a good idea. I've never actually sat down and read the real bible from cover to cover, though I would like to. A bible of this variety would be desirable for me, but unfortunately the idea of treating the bible as anything other than a holy book never occurs to most people. So all you get is holy book versions published.

Quotes' original location found in the Your Religion thread, in the Current Events forum.

[KingSimCity 3]

Being atheist is being Ignorant!

Let me tell you a story, true story.

There was a group of religious people and an atheist, they were hiking when John asks Tom (The Atheist) why he is atheist. He says "Because religion is fake , not posible." One min. later he falls in to a hole, yelling "God, save me, God, help!" Go figure.

I'm Catholic, call me crazy.

But please get a religion, I love simcity, but give 1 hour to your religion, at least your family. Simcity is a game not life

[KingSimCity 3]

Duke87,

Your saying the bible is "historical fiction", your right, and humans came from rocks. There is no hell or heaven(were all ghosts), and Jesus was a crazy man, AND the 1,098,366,000 Roman Catholics are just learning historical fiction every sunday. Your right, I have to think

[Deever 23]

Alright! This topic's active again! I really have lots of fun having healthy discussions regarding things like this.

I'll just quote what I said on the previous page so you wouldn't have to go there.

On the defense of the Christian Bible:

originally posted by: Deever Some of you might say that these things or events depicted in the bible are 'miracle grade' events, to the extent that some would think: "It's a miracle!", or maybe: "Dude, that's exaggerated. That can't be true. It's wrong."

The info I gathered (whether it came from my own research, school, or National Geographic), made me come up with one conclusion: the stuff written in the bible shouldn't be understood literally, instead, they should be understood figuratively and at the same time merge those events with down-to-earth explanations (or as some of you would rather hear: science). Exhibit A: The parting of the water Moses event thing. What you understand as a body of water splitting itself into two, I understand as low tide. Exhibit B: The creation event thing (And on the sixth day, God made this and that etc.). What you understand as a higher power painting the skies and making rocks float to the surface, I see as the Big Bang.

I'd present more 'exhibits' but that would mess up my statement.

El punto: When you read the bible, learn to read between the lines. Everything in that book shouldn't be understood literally. The writers of the book just wanted to present their knowledge in a figurative manner. It must have been the fad of their day or something. And another thing, you don't have to find a scientific explanation for everything that is written in the bible. What is important is that you understand the morals, values, and lessons shown by those stories.quote>

On the defense of the existence of a higher power:

originally posted by: Deever Ok, this is my agnostic/deist side talking now (I'm really thinking of converting).

God (capital G God) may not exist, Buddha may not exist, Allah may not exist, but I'm 100 percent sure that there's a higher power out there.

Let's assume we came into being thanks to the Big Bang. According to the Big Bang, everything in the universe was compacted into such a small space (probably atom-size space) and then BOOM! All sorts of matter scattered all over the place (and you know the rest). I ask you this: where did all that compacted matter come from in the first place? It couldn't just appear like that on itself. Someone placed that compacted matter there. Someone started the ball rolling.quote>

Please don't kill me.

EDIT: One more thing...

You might ask where the higher power who started all this came from. I myself no longer bother to answer that question. Only he knows were he came from.

[Mikeaut1 261]

Originally posted by: KingSimCity Being atheist is being Ignorant!

Let me tell you a story, true story.

There was a group of religious people and an atheist, they were hiking when John asks Tom (The Atheist) why he is atheist. He says "Because religion is fake , not posible." One min. later he falls in to a hole, yelling "God, save me, God, help!" Go figure.

I'm Catholic, call me crazy.

But please get a religion, I love simcity, but give 1 hour to your religion, at least your family. Simcity is a game not lifequote>

I wouldn't call atheists ignorant. They believe what they want to believe. But I can see where you can find that they're ignorant.

My question to all the atheists are: How can you live in this world, breathe the air you breathe, look up at the sky everyday, look at all the planets in the universe, look at the trillions of stars, look at the ocean, the earth as a whole, mountains, valleys, the human race, every other animal and life on this earth, the complexity of their bodies, and not see God?

Probably, the atheists here will say "well thats an example of evolution and science." But we can't limit the creation of this earth to just science. Just as atheists draw their evidence from science, which isn't 100% entirely factual anyway, Christians draw evidence of the creation of earth through the Bible and things that require faith to believe. Athiests labelling the Bible as something that isn't evidence of God is rediculous. That is what the Bible is about anyway! The Bible is not historical fiction at all, its the truth! And if you are going to deny that it's the truth, don't label the Bible as not being factual, because a huge portion of the Bible is based on historical events that actually happened.

[Palpatine001 57]

First of all about the Big Bang, one thing that will always Science to say the least, until we fully understand the universe and Black and White Hole Theory we just have no idea how things came to be from dot.

KingSimCity

Errr sorry mate I won't be getting a religion anytime soon, I already do my part in contributing to family, fellow people, society and of course Science, the economy, the nation and the world and I am a agnostic that knows right and wrong

As for a remark on boring sundays, Sundays are never boring as I am usually working in the day followed by the Sunday get together for the Roast and some good old Fashion CSI and what ever rolls round on TV one

KingSimCity

Again that population figure you quoted is roughly 1/6 the world population, I would like to point out the also 1/6 world is classed as non religious (and is growing)

Although I acknowledge traditional religion has formed the core values and morals of society in which I live, however while I have never stepped foot in a church for 16 years I still know right from wrong, that murder and stealing is inexcuseable and that I help a fellow human need.

Just some food for thought

EDIT

Mike you must of posted at the same time as I was so I am going to reply to your comment

While I sit on the fence as an agnostic I still stand by what I said in regards to morals, values and my convictions on that front

In regards to looking to the sky, Earth, humanity and the universe as a whole, science piece by piece is slowly answering everything including our existance here - although the question of why is left to you, and religion in the private sphere. Don't get me wrong, religion will have a place here until we ascend (perfect form in theory) but as science grows and we go beyond the stars in time, science as a whole will continue to surplant religion for the physical realm, but never in the abstract or mental realm, that is for you and you only.

Black holes and white holes could very well hold the answer to life in the universe as such, as matter is neither destroyed nor created

Black holes suck up matter and transport to a white hole which spews it back out - well in theory anyhow

I'll leave you to dwell on that

[hamsterTK 93]

Probably, the atheists here will say "well thats an example of evolution and science." But we can't limit the creation of this earth to just science. Just as atheists draw their evidence from science, which isn't 100% entirely factual anyway, Christians draw evidence of the creation of earth through the Bible and things that require faith to believe. Athiests labelling the Bible as something that isn't evidence of God is rediculous. That is what the Bible is about anyway! The Bible is not historical fiction at all, its the truth! And if you are going to deny that it's the truth, don't label the Bible as not being factual, because a huge portion of the Bible is based on historical events that actually happened.quote>

Thats circular logic

[Deever 23]

First of all about the Big Bang, one thing that will always Science to say the least, until we fully understand the universe and Black and White Hole Theory we just have no idea how things came to be from dot.quote>

Correct. Thanks for clarifying.

My point is no matter how the universe came into being, may it be from the Big Bang or something else, someone started it all. After all, how would you justify the existence of something if there is no one to recognize it's existence?... And that someone is that entity that started this whole thing.

[neder 1]

I'll make one post about what I think about various religions and I'll probarbly never go back to this thread again as I'm sure I'll get flamed with stuff that I consider to be BS and I'll get all aggrivated.

I think people throughout history have needed to belive in something in order to explain certain things that is or was onconcivable to them. For instance, in early nordic belives we belived thunder and lightning was caused by Thor driving a chariot across the sky. We know today this is not the case, thunder and lightning is caused by differance in electical charges and it's explainable. During the medieval times people thought sickness was gods way of punnishing sinners. Today we know it's caused by becteria and viruses and that it got no relevance if you're a good or bad person or what you belive in. Life after death or the creation of earth are still somewhat debatable issues and therefor we exlain this by simply saying it's gods work, whatever god we might belive in. In a thousand years from now I'm sure we'll know the answers to this aswell and we might even have gotten so far that we can create life on our own and revive the dead. However, I'm sure we'll have other issues to debate at that time and I don't think we'll ever be able to explain everything or we might even prove that there really is a god in the end, who knows.

Most religious books are in my oppinion created with common sence and conveniance in mind. The best example of this (in my oppinon still) is the Koran and Muhammeds words. Muhammed saw that people got sick and died after eating pig (this is caused by bacteria and not gods wrath btw) and his conclusion and solution was that pigs are dirty and may not be eaten. Many wars were fought in the middle east at this time and a large portion of the male population died at an early age while the women grew old in large numbers. Mohammeds sollution, let men take more then one wife as long as they're able to provide for them, a very pratical sollution to make sure women who at this time had to care for the kids and therefor could not work were taken care of. Prayer 5 times a day, once to wake people up, once to tell them it's time to get to work, once to announce mid day break, once to end mid day break and finally once to let people know they're done working for the day.

These are all, in my oppinion, sensible sollutions to problems they experienced at this time and to say it was the word of god and you risked eternal damnation if you didn't obey it was a very efficient way to make people obey. I want to point out that I'm not ripping on Islam here, I belive all religions where formed for these reasons, to explain what people couldn't and to make people follow a law.

Today we're in a different situation. If something can't be explained we say it's because we haven't figured it out yet and if we don't obey the law we go to prison. I don't think humanity needs religion anymore, but we hold on to it partly because of traditions and partly because we want to belive that if we're good people we go to a wonderful place after we die and all the bad people will suffer forever. Some nations across the world also still use religion to keep their population in control. They keep a litracy level on a minimum and don't allow people to hear or read news that are unfavorable to them. In those cases religion is about money and power and maybe we should thank god (or sattelite dishes and globalism) so few countries get away with it today.

[Mikeaut1 261]

Although I acknowledge traditional religion has formed the core values and morals of society in which I live, however while I have never stepped foot in a church for 16 years I still know right from wrong, that murder and stealing is inexcuseable and that I help a fellow human need.quote>

This is a common misconception among Christians and Catholics alike. Where in the Bible does it say that if you do good, that's what'll get you into Heaven?

You do not enter heaven based on what you do here on earth. You can only get to heaven through belief in Jesus Christ. If you don't believe in Jesus, and when you die you are judged before Christ, you will not enter heaven. If you believe in Jesus, you will also be judged based on the good you have done on earth. But that judgment only comes after you have believed in Jesus and judged for that.

[Deever 23]

You do not enter heaven based on what you do here on earth. You can only get to heaven through belief in Jesus Christ.quote>

There is, however, an exception to this. If you are a Christian, you know all about Jesus, and you don't believe in Him, chances are you won't get into Heaven. But if you were someone who was born not knowing Christianity at all, that doesn't signal a one-way ticket to Hell. It's not your fault if you weren't aware of the existence of Christ.

[Palpatine001 57]

Walk softly Mike, I will warn you if you encroach into my private sphere on issues such as religion.

Again I am agnostic, not Christian and very much not Catholic therefore being judged before Christ to get into "heaven" on basis of belief is irrelevant to me.

How I make my own peace after I leave this realm is for me and me to deal with alone.

---

Again Religion plays very very little part in my life

But again I know right from wrong, to help a fellow human and contribute to society and civilisation as a whole and on that alone is merit enough for this realm - and I think even upstairs would be proud in that as well even though I am agnostic.

All one have to believe in is one's self and the self's determination to do what in the end is right with the task at hand and that the self through self belief in himself to empower him to do his or her best, that is all that one can ask of himself and his fellow human beings as well as treating others as you wish to be treated! That alone is what makes man standout and should be the driving force for civilisations ultimate goal:

And Ironically this comes from Star Trek: The United Federation of Planets (The Federation) - The ultimate goal is to better himself and help better all of Mankind (than what is current)

And that strangely is what I follow, a Sci Fi saying that holds a stark reminder to EVERYONE

[beebs 129]

Originally posted by: Mikeaut1

Probably, the atheists here will say "well thats an example of evolution and science." But we can't limit the creation of this earth to just science. Just as atheists draw their evidence from science, which isn't 100% entirely factual anyway, Christians draw evidence of the creation of earth through the Bible and things that require faith to believe. Athiests labelling the Bible as something that isn't evidence of God is rediculous. That is what the Bible is about anyway! The Bible is not historical fiction at all, its the truth! And if you are going to deny that it's the truth, don't label the Bible as not being factual, because a huge portion of the Bible is based on historical events that actually happened.quote>

So from my understanding, Mikey, you're saying the Bible is a factual piece of work because it's about God? Just because it's written about a person/higher power, doesn't make it completely factual.

[MrCinatit 30]

Originally post

My question to all the atheists are: How can you live in this world, breathe the air you breathe, look up at the sky everyday, look at all the planets in the universe, look at the trillions of stars, look at the ocean, the earth as a whole, mountains, valleys, the human race, every other animal and life on this earth, the complexity of their bodies, and not see God?quote>

Not only with great contention, but very happily, thank you.

I look at the sky every day - the sunrise and the sunset. I know this comes from our planet's revolutions, and I know where the colors come from - I know of the sunrise and sunset effects such as magnification, and the Venus Belt. Yet, knowing their scientific reasoning does not deter from their beauty. And I imagine what sunsets and sunrises on other planets look like - and can come pretty close to seeing it in my mind thanks to our scientific understanding.

Carl Sagan - It is sometimes said that scientists are unromantic, that their passion to figure out robs the world of beauty and mystery. But is it not stirring to understand how the world actually works — that white light is made of colors, that color is the way we perceive the wavelengths of light, that transparent air reflects light, that in so doing it discriminates among the waves, and that the sky is blue for the same reason that the sunset is red? It does no harm to the romance of the sunset to know a little bit about it.quote>

I look at the sky at night, and I see the planets. I see pictures coming thanks to probes such as Pioneer, Voyager, Viking, Rover, Cassini and many more. I know how they formed from star stuff, taking billions of years to look like they do now - and wonder what they will look like billions of years later. I know how Saturn got its rings, how Io got its violent surface, how the craters dot the face of the moon; the history, consistency and wind velocity of the Great Red Spot on Jupiter, how comets came into being and how they get their wonderful tales, why meteors erupt in brilliant colors as they fall to Earth. Science has explained these things to me - yet this not in one bit dull the wonderment.

Carl Sagan - Once we overcome our fear of being tiny, we find ourselves on the threshold of a vast and awesome Universe that utterly dwarfs — in time, in space, and in potential — the tidy anthropocentric proscenium of our ancestors. We gaze across billions of light-years of space to view the Universe shortly after the Big Bang, and plumb the fine structure of matter. We peer down into the core of our planet, and the blazing interior of our star. We read the genetic language in which is written the diverse skills and propensities of every being on Earth. We uncover hidden chapters in the record of our origins, and with some anguish better understand our nature and prospects. We invent and refine agriculture, without which almost all of us would starve to death. We create medicines and vaccines that save the lives of billions. We communicate at the speed of light, and whip around the Earth in an hour and a half. We have sent dozens of ships to more than seventy worlds, and four spacecraft to the stars. We are right to rejoice in our accomplishments, to be proud that our species has been able to see so far, and to judge our merit in part by the very science that has so deflated our pretensions.quote>

I find it remarkably fascinating to look at this picture - to know that this tiny dot, this insignificant looking grain of dust in a vast sea of black - houses every human, every species, every sea, every nation, every continent and so much more.

Carl Sagan - (his wife) Ann Druyan suggest an experiment: Look back again at the pale blue dot (Earth). Take a good long look at it. Stare at the dot for any length of time and then try to convince yourself that God created the whole Universe for one of the 10 million or so species of life that inhabit that speck of dust. Now take it a step further: Imagine that everything was made just for a single shade of that species, or gender, or ethnic or religious subdivision. If this doesn't strike you as unlikely, pick another dot. Imagine it to be inhabited by a different form of intelligent life. They, too, cherish the notion of a God who has created everything for their benefit. How seriously do you take their claim?quote>

I watch our species and other species' interact with each other. There are remarkable similarities. For instance, when geese have gathered by a river shore, at least two to four of them are appointed "guards" while the rest of them feast. Or as they fly, one flies in front, the others behind in a V formation so the others can glide on the first one's wake - guess science, in a sense.

I watch dogs attempt to mimic humans (shake hands) - yet they have their own doggy language with different types of barks signifying different needs and wants.

I have watched beavers user limbs and trees as tools to create homes.

And with this, I realize our species is not something special. We are in no way superior to the rest - we are simply one of billions of other species on this little world, coexisting. Unfortunately, thanks to our abilities to use tools and our egos, we have ruthlessly changed this world, sacrificing many other animals in our own little greedy name to do so - sometimes using the name of a deity in order to justify our actions against not only other species, but against those in our own species we deem different than ourselves.

Carl Sagan - Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries.quote>

I look at our bodies and humanity not as a miracle, but as the continued result of a very long struggle against nature and itself. Trial and error, cause and effect, mutations, outcasts, luck, struggle, persistence, adaptability and many, many, many years have gotten us to where we are now. We are the successful DNA strands - and I know there are many unsuccessful DNA strands strewn behind us in history.

And even today, we continue to change and adapt - and evolve. I always wonder with fascination what kind of species we will evolve into 5 million years from now - if we allow ourselves to survive.

Human history can be viewed as a slowly dawning awareness that we are members of a larger group. Initially our loyalties were to ourselves and our immediate family, next, to bands of wandering hunter-gatherers, then to tribes, small settlements, city-states, nations. We have broadened the circle of those we love. We have now organized what are modestly described as super-powers, which include groups of people from divergent ethnic and cultural backgrounds working in some sense together — surely a humanizing and character building experience. If we are to survive, our loyalties must be broadened further, to include the whole human community, the entire planet Earth. Many of those who run the nations will find this idea unpleasant. They will fear the loss of power. We will hear much about treason and disloyalty. Rich nation-states will have to share their wealth with poor ones. But the choice, as H. G. Wells once said in a different context, is clearly the universe or nothing.quote>

And, yes, in the end I know I will die. Everything I know will die with me, all of my thoughts, all of my hopes and all of my dreams. I know that I am a remarkable collection of chemical and biological reactions, which has adapted to its surroundings, which is part of an ever continuing evolutionary process.

I know humanity will not last forever. It is biologically impossible. Perhaps it will be from our own foolishness, or perhaps it will be from an outside event such as an asteroid collision.

I know that planet Earth will not last forever. I know that in about 5 billion years from now, the sun will grow so immense, it will consume our planet - permanently erasing everything we hold so dear.

Yet, the rest of the universe will go on. Just as it has gone on after countless other planets, suns and galaxies have perished.

And with this, I do not feel sorry for myself. I am simply fascinated by the biological wonder of our species and astronomical wonder of our planet and universe.

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.

The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.quote>

Yes, there is a lot science has yet to explain. Many realistic scientists will admit this. And, they realize that they will never know all of the answers, for in eternal universe, that is impossible. But as we open our minds, and as we continue to be willing to explore and try to find those answers, we continue to expose ourselves to a world of wonder, understanding, and knowledge.

And that, my friends, is a very good thing.

[ExiL3 10]

Myself I am Ignostic, So I don't believe (comprehend) that there is a god.

As MrCinatit (post above, PLEASE read it if you haven't yet cause it is an excellent post) I can comprehend science, and the facts or theories behind everything. For me Religious explanations to the mysteries of life are boring;

- Why do we have liquid water on Earth?

Christian answer; "Because god put it there" ("simplified version")

My answer; "As the stars formated, hydrogen and other gases accompanied with strong outward winds and dust were thrown out into space and eventually was caught by our planet's gravitational field. Eventually as the earth's violent surface cooled, it's thick clouds of Water vapor finally gathered into droplets and poured down and cooled of the surface even more, eventually creating one massive ocean of water. This Ocean is contained and pushed down thanks to our planets thick atmosphere and... ." (*Simplified version*)

I have never been religious, and never will be either. A good way to explain my thoughts about religion and god(s) is in the theology of Ignosticism;

-"finding the question of God's existence meaningless because it has no verifiable consequences."

So you might say that I think that the idea of god as being makes no sense to me, or "I don't know what you mean when you say 'God exists'."

So "until the day" "god" "presents" "him" "self" and gives me a really good proof that "he" "is" "watching", I'll stick to something I can comprehend, which is science.

take care,

[Mikeaut1 261]

Originally posted by: beebs

Originally posted by: Mikeaut1

Probably, the atheists here will say "well thats an example of evolution and science." But we can't limit the creation of this earth to just science. Just as atheists draw their evidence from science, which isn't 100% entirely factual anyway, Christians draw evidence of the creation of earth through the Bible and things that require faith to believe. Athiests labelling the Bible as something that isn't evidence of God is rediculous. That is what the Bible is about anyway! The Bible is not historical fiction at all, its the truth! And if you are going to deny that it's the truth, don't label the Bible as not being factual, because a huge portion of the Bible is based on historical events that actually happened.quote>

So from my understanding, Mikey, you're saying the Bible is a factual piece of work because it's about God? Just because it's written about a person/higher power, doesn't make it completely factual.quote>

You could take it as not being factual. As for myself, I believe every part of it. Me thinking its factual just corresponds to my belief in Christianity.

As for the historical point of the Bible, most of it is actually factual history that was recorded back then. Christ's crucifixion, the disciples, the fall of some of the empires and cities, and the acts of the apostles after the crucifixion, are all recorded from history.

[fukuda 351]

Maybe some users have forgotten it or simply they only understand a totalitary vision of world, but;

Science is not here to explain the reality as a dogma (like religion), science is based in a scientific method.

The method was craeted in a try to avoid errors in the largest possible way. For such a simple being as a human, knowing precisely all the truth is kinda unlikely, lol; so they try to commit at least errors as they can, through demonstration and logical deduction, the best way human beings can try it. As you might have realized, theories and scientifical facts vary all the time, that's a good thing! Adjusting theories and learning from errors we can have something that maybe is not repesenting the real truth, but it works for our needs, and it perfects all the time with every error.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Deever

You do not enter heaven based on what you do here on earth. You can only get to heaven through belief in Jesus Christ.quote>

There is, however, an exception to this. If you are a Christian, you know all about Jesus, and you don't believe in Him, chances are you won't get into Heaven. But if you were someone who was born not knowing Christianity at all, that doesn't signal a one-way ticket to Hell. It's not your fault if you weren't aware of the existence of Christ.quote>

Well, according to Dante, virtuous pagans (at the time meaning anyone not Christian) don't go to hell, but they can't attain salvation either. They stay in Limbo, where there is neither the suffering of hell or the pleasure of paradise. In other words, they spend eternity living in conditions not unlike those found on earth. Also, prior to Jesus' death, absolutely nobody attained salvation. When Jesus died, an earthquake shook hell, and he went into limbo, hand picked several prominent old testament figures, and took them with him to the highest level of paradise, reserved just for them, god, and Jesus. He then returned to earth, "rising from the dead" for fifty days (Easter) and then ascended back to heaven permanently, and the current system was established. Christians who repent sinning go to purgatory to atone for their sins and then to paradise. Virtuous "pagans" stay in limbo, and non-virtuous "pagans" and non-repentant Christians go to hell.

Of course, the church at the time considered Dante's work heretical, since the teaching was that what exactly happens after death was not for the living to know. So a purist may consider all that invalid, anyway.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[fukuda 351]

Even OMFG

[bri3d 4]

Originally posted by: Mikeaut1

Originally posted by: KingSimCity Being atheist is being Ignorant!

Let me tell you a story, true story.

There was a group of religious people and an atheist, they were hiking when John asks Tom (The Atheist) why he is atheist. He says "Because religion is fake , not posible." One min. later he falls in to a hole, yelling "God, save me, God, help!" Go figure.

I'm Catholic, call me crazy.

But please get a religion, I love simcity, but give 1 hour to your religion, at least your family. Simcity is a game not lifequote>

I wouldn't call atheists ignorant. They believe what they want to believe. But I can see where you can find that they're ignorant.

My question to all the atheists are: How can you live in this world, breathe the air you breathe, look up at the sky everyday, look at all the planets in the universe, look at the trillions of stars, look at the ocean, the earth as a whole, mountains, valleys, the human race, every other animal and life on this earth, the complexity of their bodies, and not see God?

Probably, the atheists here will say "well thats an example of evolution and science." But we can't limit the creation of this earth to just science. Just as atheists draw their evidence from science, which isn't 100% entirely factual anyway, Christians draw evidence of the creation of earth through the Bible and things that require faith to believe. Athiests labelling the Bible as something that isn't evidence of God is rediculous. That is what the Bible is about anyway! The Bible is not historical fiction at all, its the truth! And if you are going to deny that it's the truth, don't label the Bible as not being factual, because a huge portion of the Bible is based on historical events that actually happened.quote>

 

Well, I'd say MrCinatit pretty much summed your question up. It's a great post.

Some athiests are more ignorant than others, but all religions have people ignoring others, wanting to believe that only their religion is true. I try to look at all of it, more than just science and Christianity, but all of the religions. I listen to what each side has to say, every side, and try to make sense out of it. I try to choose the belief that makes the most sense to me. And I chose science, mayber that's what it will stay, maybe not. I like evidence, and that side has the most. Some might say, "Well, all you need is faith," but sometimes its hard for me to put faith in a book, the Bible, or any other religious text that we don't even know the exact origin of. Coming back to evidence, if they discover Noah's Ark or the Ten Commandments I'll be a believer in an instant. And really, I want it to happen, to be able to believe in a superior being but right now I can't. Not when there's so many contradictions. That's just me.

I may be Atheist/part Agnostic, but most of my friends are either Christian/Catholic/Protestant/Mormon/even Scientologist. I don't judge others on their belief; it is their personal choosing once they are old enough to think for themselves. I think that may be one misunderstanding about Atheists, that we don't like anybody that believes in a religion, but I think that mostly that is not true. We are all human beings, all with a god(s) or not, and we all have morals, morals that are just natural, but (possibly) a product of amazing natural selection that made our brains that we have today. Atheists have morals, atheists can love and like, we stare in awe and wonder at this universe, and don't take us and it (the universe) for granted. Believe it or not, science helps me awe and be amazed at this world even more; knowing how it was (probably, we don't know for sure, I'm not saying for sure there isn't a God) how it was created and how it acts and functions.

Hmmm I doubt what I wrote even makes sense ...

[ExiL3 10]

on't label the Bible as not being factual, because a huge portion of the Bible is based on historical events that actually happened.quote>

Really? A HUGE portion of the Bible?

-And BTW, who says that it "actually happened"? ;

...Scientists...

Just as atheists draw their evidence from science, which isn't 100% entirely factual anyway,quote>

So you don't believe the Scientist when they say something that isn't right if you compare it to the Bible, but as soon as they do agree with you, you believe them and they are 100% factual...

You also mean they agree with a HUGE portion of the historical correctness of the Bible??!?!?

- now who said that it "actually happened"??????

... Now you've made me confused...

take care,