britains huge mistakes

[dtrcity 0]

well they are huge , tower blocks i mean. after the 2nd world war britain needed to build to make up for everything they had lost in accomodation. so the idea of the 'futuristic' tower block was put forward. it got the go a-head and now britain is pulling nearly all of them down.

these days they are known for drug use and over all crime. not nice places to live these tower blocks were meant to be britains skyscrapaers like the us but they didn't work.

 

the change happened during a huge building mania period in britain. britain is now in the middle of another building boom and whats to say 40 years on from now these houses won't be pulled down.

 

 

will the next simcity have less residental high rise?

will the next simcity make houses less desirable with time?

 

what do you think?

[toxicpiano 125]

1 britains biggest mistake was electing Tony Blair as PM

2 Tower blocks become drug infested sh*t heaps because asbo material have not been disiplined at all, and the parents of the asbos material dont care and bring their children up like scum. in hong kong, there are plenty of low wealth tower blocks,

however everyone there is disiplined as working, functioning, law abiding members of society, much like people in the rest of south east asia. For example in singapore, i believe you are shot if you take drugs.

3 if you want to discuss simcity 5 please do it in the future of simcity discussion thread .

[spa 968]

It wasn't just Britain's mistake, it was most of the Western world's mistake. The recent riots in France didn't start in the Paris suburbs because of race alone, poverty and life in those miserable housing projects had as much to do with it as anything in my opinion. In the USA those big 1960s-1970s housing projects have become ghettos. The same has happened in Canada (Regent Park in Toronto anyone?), but to a much lesser degree since Canadian governments came to the game late and with much less enthusaism.

The mistaken idea about the housing projects was that they would replace slum housing. It was thought to be progessive and uplifting. The housing projects became disasters because they were isolated from the community, they lacked access to services, they lacked security and everyone in them was of one class. The problems were only amplified by housing authorities that demanded that tenants not make more than a certain low income level. So anyone who became successful, even if they wanted to stay, had to move. You can't foster a stable community with that kind of policy.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

We had to build these things because they were cheap. WW's1 and 2 crippled our economy's. Plus Millgate House, a 20 story 60's tower block in Portsmouth has been properly looked after and is actually a very nice place to live.

[Compromise 1]

For starters can we please stop the politics otherwise this thread may have to be closed and that would be sad. Also this forum is not for discussion about SimCity itself, only real life eqivilents.

You are right the 1960's tower blocks were a mistake but at the time they worked out really well and have only decaed over time as the disadvantages had started appearing. I have seem many programs of demolishers bringing down tower blocks which were falling aopart but still a lot people were really upset as they used to live up there in there child and even working lives.

 

You can't blame people for this, its just how people thought then. The idea that you can clean away half a village and put in new futaristic building and skyscrapers will solve everyone's problems was only made because people can't perfectley bredict the future. An example of this would be the World Trade Center which was built under this thinking. People at the time had no fear of terriost attacks and there were no planes of the size of the one's used in 9/11 then. You don't know all the mistakes we are making now which are going to cost future genarations.

[Jerebannus XVI 7]

I live in East London and nearly all of these horrible tower blocks are being refurbished and modernised, they all looks actually very nice thanks to new development programes. It all has to look really nice just in time for the olympics.

[Duke87 1,070]

As far as I can tell, britain has made only one big mistake, and it's driving on the left side of the road.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 12/22/2005 6:16:19 PM Author: Duke87 As far as I can tell, britain has made only one big mistake, and it's driving on the left side of the road.

quote> How did we make a mistake, we started driving on the left because our trains do. We invented the Railways, had the first railways thusly we drove on the left before people drove on the right.

[toxicpiano 125]

Date: 12/22/2005 6:16:19 PM Author: Duke87 As far as I can tell, britain has made only one big mistake, and it's driving on the left side of the road.

yes but the entire world does speak english (not american) and america, canada and australia would be nothing like they are today without us. god i hate this place...

[deadwoods 542]

Date: 12/22/2005 6:20:57 PM
Author: ILL Tonkso

Date: 12/22/2005 6:16:19 PM Author: Duke87 As far as I can tell, britain has made only one big mistake, and it's driving on the left side of the road.

quote> How did we make a mistake, we started driving on the left because our trains do. We invented the Railways, had the first railways thusly we drove on the left before people drove on the right.

quote>

In addition to the UK, most of the Asia-Pacific region drives on the left; Japan, Singapore, Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Thailand. From memory India is on the left too, but that's just a guide (if you've been on roads in downtown Mumbai, you will know what I mean). The major exception is China which drives on the right. Much of this is probably the colonial influence, which probably ties back to the trains as Tonks has mentioned.

One thing we can blame the Brits for, Lucas The Prince of Darkness. If you've had a car/bike with Lucas electrical components, you'll know what I mean.

[aestiva 0]

The British sowed the seeds of democracy in all their colonies, as well as establishing the neccesary legal rights to property that would be applied to all, not just the aristocracy.  It was not their intention to do this, but their legacy as colonizers has given free market capitalism and economic benefits to those of us lucky to live in what was their empire.  Plus they brew some of the best beer on the planet.  God save the Queen! 

 

As for '60s housing projects, I think most every city in America has or is demolishing them.  In Baltimore they have been replaced with very nice two story row houses. But my suspicion is that these will eventually fail, as the neighborhoods are not economically diverse.  Everyone knows they are still the Projects. 

 

-Aestiva

[brijones 0]

I don't completely agree with the word 'mistake'. Housing projects are needed. We live in a world which has adopted the welfare state, which as it so happens was invented by Winston Churchhill. The welfare state was created to lower crime, which prior to it's inception was a huge problem in England. Most the country was at war, the economy was in tatters.

After the war, the welfare state enabled the country to bounce back, where crime would have brought the country to it's knees. You see, for the economy to run smoothly, investors need economic certainty.

 

Housing projects work when they are well planned. In Australia, we have what is known as public housing which is about providing housing to those less fortunate. The rents are very cheap for households with no working members. If you have a disability, insurance might keep you from ever working again, but you still need a house to live in.

 

The waiting list for public housing is something like 1 - 2 years. These houses are mostly normal everyday houses purchased by the government, however I have seen large estates, with brand new houses springing up.

 

In truth, housing projects aren't to blame, they are created with the best in mind, and they cannot help it if the people bring them down. In Australia, we have Aboriginal Estates, where they pull bricks out of the walls and sell them, as if the whole house is a game of Jenga.

[The_New_Thing 34]

Estates actully work for a while, but in the 1970s-1980s maintenace funding was droped. The thinking from government was that if somethings broken, pretend it isn't.
The thinking on the estates was that if something is broken and isn't getting fixed, you might as well brake it more (there was nothing else to do). That cuppled with the confusing mase-like layout broght on a no way out feeling that made people give up on work and turn to crime,drugs.

 

We drive on the left because if you where on a horse and your enemy passes, you can draw your sword on them with your right hand.

[dtrcity 0]

look at these LISTED buildings

http://www.lucas-digital.com/images/sheffield/flats2.jpg

its called park hill flats near the center of sheffield and they need pulling down , but since the architects plans where so rare and represented the future vision for housing in the 60's they are listed.

 

they are terrible.

[Emozo 0]

By demolishing so many 60s buildings we might as well be tearing pages out of history books, the future generations will have nothing to see of what was one of the most important periods of our heritage.

oh and slightly off topic we drive on the left because your 'sword arm' is on your right: we werent invaded by napoleon which accounts for europe and we didnt gain independance from ourselfs and hate us at the time which accounts for north america, or was that just a dig at our elected pariament- in which case your right! lol

[xiziz 11]

Stockholm got quite a few of those nasty buildings, it was called the Million Project, during the time when sweden imported huge ammounts of people to fuel our rising economy, well, they all needed somewhere to live, aswell as all the kiddos that were growing up.
Cheap Appartemts were neded, and these extrodinarily ugly things were erected, altough most of them still stand today, as still, there is nowhere to move to within the greater-city.

As for driving on the Righthand side, Sweden only changed 3rd of september 1967, Long after napoleon ate the dust ^^
But the Tube still runs on the left side.

Cheers
//Sim

[delboysim 1]

The biggest mistake Britain made was allowing Tony Blair to stick his head up the rear end of George Bush, and then prance around like a puppet .....................and guess who is pulling the strings .........and before I get a barrage of complaints - NO I am NOT Anti American - but I sure as hell am anti manipulative politicians !!!!

[Compromise 1]

Date: 12/23/2005 10:33:23 AM Author: delboysim The biggest mistake Britain made was allowing Tony Blair to stick his head up the rear end of George Bush, and then prance around like a puppet .....................and guess who is pulling the strings .........and before I get a barrage of complaints - NO I am NOT Anti American - but I sure as hell am anti manipulative politicians !!!!

 

Thet's review the forum rules...

 

8. No talk of politics or religion allowed here. If you feel the need, go to SimCity Central . They have a forum for that on their board.

 

and the forum equitee...

 

13. Stay on topic. If someone is asking about how to build effective mass transit, do not post saying I hate mass transit, I never use them. It is irrelevant and not helpful to the topic.

 

Please, I don't want this thread shut down.

 

By demolishing so many 60s buildings we might as well be tearing pages out of history books, the future generations will have nothing to see of what was one of the most important periods of our heritage.

 

Good point and this was argued in Portsmouth when they demlished the Tricorn as well. Should we be making the effort to renovate these buildings instead of destroying them. A argument which is been higley discussed in the world of architecture.

[EnigmaticUK 1]

There's not much point in making an effort to conserve buildings which are poorly conceived, poorly designed and poorly constructed, which should see an awful lot of sixties skyscrapers reduced to rubble.

I'll be interested to see what Urban Splash do with the Park Hill flats though.

[GAT-X105 3]

One big British mistake was making lots and lots of buildings out of rough bare concrete that turns green when it rains...

[hamsterTK 93]

the worst ones here in the US where in chicago. One of the worst parts about them was fence mesh on the outside that let snipers shoot out of them. A lot of those up there are being torn down now and are being replaced by these fancy townhomes that house poor people but are able to make money because they also house rich people who pay a ton of money to live in a nic e place like that so close into downtown. Of course the poor people cant do drugs or get into trouble or else they are kicked out.

[screamingman12 30]

http://www.lucas-digital.com/images/sheffield/flats2.jpg

quote>

 

That large biulding in the back of the picture looks like my vision of a communist tenant biulding after the Chernobyl power plant blew up.

 

[spa 968]

Date: 12/25/2005 7:16:59 AM Author: EnigmaticUK There's not much point in making an effort to conserve buildings which are poorly conceived, poorly designed and poorly constructed, which should see an awful lot of sixties skyscrapers reduced to rubble. I'll be interested to see what Urban Splash do with the Park Hill flats though.

quote>

I agree wholeheartedly. We should respect the past and save it where and when we can but we shouldn't be handcuffed by it. If a use can be found for a unique building we should save it but if it can't and it doesn't work anymore well it should go. Just my two cents.

[wallasey 8]

Date: 12/25/2005 2:55:53 PM
Author: spa

Date: 12/25/2005 7:16:59 AM Author: EnigmaticUK There's not much point in making an effort to conserve buildings which are poorly conceived, poorly designed and poorly constructed, which should see an awful lot of sixties skyscrapers reduced to rubble. I'll be interested to see what Urban Splash do with the Park Hill flats though.

quote>

I agree wholeheartedly. We should respect the past and save it where and when we can but we shouldn't be handcuffed by it. If a use can be found for a unique building we should save it but if it can't and it doesn't work anymore well it should go. Just my two cents.

quote>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I don't know.

If anyone has heard, there is a urban regenartaion initiative called New Heartlands and aims to create create sustainable neighbourhoods. What is actually happening is around 2500 victorian homes in Liverpool are being pulled down and small boxes being put up in their place.

This is happening in previously well established districts of the city which have declined in the last few years. The terraces that are being pulled down are in good nic but aren't fashionable in today's market. Now, I am reminded somewhat of the plans in the 60's which involved big swathes of the UK being pulled down for tower blocks which have since been pulled down. Whats ironic here is that developers and alikes haven't learnt from past mistakes and that is where this country goes wrong.

If the UK is to compete in the wider market, our existing housing should be made desirable places to live. This will encourage higher output amongst those who live and work in the area thus attracting more companies to the area thus creating a better economy.

This whole idea of pulling down swathes and swathes or good quality terraced housing is utter balderdash and the sooner somebady realises this, the better.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 12/23/2005 10:37:20 AM Author: Compromise

Date: 12/23/2005 10:33:23 AM Author: delboysim The biggest mistake Britain made was allowing Tony Blair to stick his head up the rear end of George Bush, and then prance around like a puppet .....................and guess who is pulling the strings .........and before I get a barrage of complaints - NO I am NOT Anti American - but I sure as hell am anti manipulative politicians !!!!

Thet's review the forum rules...

8. No talk of politics or religion allowed here. If you feel the need, go to SimCity Central . They have a forum for that on their board.

and the forum equitee...

13. Stay on topic. If someone is asking about how to build effective mass transit, do not post saying 'I hate mass transit, I never use them.' It is irrelevant and not helpful to the topic.

Please, I don't want this thread shut down.

By demolishing so many 60s buildings we might as well be tearing pages out of history books, the future generations will have nothing to see of what was one of the most important periods of our heritage.

Good point and this was argued in Portsmouth when they demlished the Tricorn as well. Should we be making the effort to renovate these buildings instead of destroying them. A argument which is been higley discussed in the world of architecture.

quote> Ah yes, the tricorn site is a big emty hole in the landscape of Portsmouth now, its amazing how dramatically the area has been changed by the loss of this complex.

[aestiva 0]

I hate to bring up Baltimore again but they are doing the same thing with all the historic old dwellings in the harbor. 

Old buildings with character are being torn down and replaced with some architect's modern conceptions of what brick row homes should have looked like if only our ancestors had the benefit of concrete and dry wall.  They will be throwaway eyesores in one generation.  I wish they'd just restore the old buildings to their former glory.

 

-A

[nazaguy 0]

Date: 12/25/2005 1:42:46 PM Author: screamingman12

http://www.lucas-digital.com/images/sheffield/flats2.jpg

quote>

That large biulding in the back of the picture looks like my vision of a communist tenant biulding after the Chernobyl power plant blew up.

quote>

Urgh, frightful. They need to blow it up but its a listed building

[Emozo 0]

what about prescots 1000000+ new houses in the south of england? all are likley to be ****: poorly designed, cheap(construction that is all, the money grabers are going to sell them for market value) cramped and small, flimsey and not to mention the estates which are poorly planned and so packed of houses that the residents will have no privacy or space. i simply dont know how on earth people can design such rubbish, educated people with degrees! for goodness sake we are going to do it again and we havnt learned a thing since the disasters of the 60s and 70s.

that is why we should keep every ugly, poorly designed, ill consived piece of crap that has already been built- as a constant reminder to those brainless idiots who dream up these cheap and not so cheerful housing developments simply for money.

regarsless of style or period, thought and planning should be put in to ALL developments, these are the things people are going to LIVE in and which will remain for hopefully a long time to come. this should be the goverments no1 priority, get housing right and surely crime will drop and the econamy improve as people feel good about the place they live, and building houses that last and dont need to be renovated every 20 years will be better for the environment too, along with costing less in the long run. build high quality tower blocks people will live in them, by building sprawling estates the goverment is cutting away at the countryside yet again going back on its environment polocies, people wont also need to commute 10 miles to where they work, which adds to the already choked south. i just cannot comrehend how this country still runs.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 12/29/2005 12:44:24 PM Author: Emozo what about prescots 1000000+ new houses in the south of england? all are likley to be S**t: poorly designed, cheap(construction that is all, the money grabers are going to sell them for market value, greedy bastards) cramped and small, flimsey and not to mention the estates which are poorly planned and so packed of houses that the residents will have no privacy or space. i simply dont know how on earth people can design such rubbish, educated people with degrees! for goodness sake we are going to do it again and we havnt learned a thing since the disasters of the 60s and 70s. that is why we should keep every ugly, poorly designed, ill consived piece of crap that has already been built- as a constant reminder to those brainless idiots who dream up these cheap and not so cheerful housing developments simply for money. regarsless of style or period, thought and planning should be put in to ALL developments, these are the things people are going to LIVE in and which will remain for hopefully a long time to come. this should be the goverments no1 priority, get housing right and surely crime will drop and the econamy improve as people feel good about the place they live, and building houses that last and dont need to be renovated every 20 years will be better for the environment too, along with costing less in the long run. build high quality tower blocks people will live in them, by building sprawling estates the goverment is cutting away at the countryside yet again going back on its environment polocies, people wont also need to commute 10 miles to where they work, which adds to the already choked south. i just cannot comrehend how this country still runs.

quote> Watch your language please, anyway, as a direct result of this, Portsmouth (which is allready the countries most densly populated city) has an expected population increase of 30%.

[toxicpiano 125]

Date: 12/29/2005 12:44:24 PM Author: Emozo what about prescots 1000000+ new houses in the south of england? all are likley to be S**t: poorly designed, cheap(construction that is all, the money grabers are going to sell them for market value, greedy bastards) cramped and small, flimsey and not to mention the estates which are poorly planned and so packed of houses that the residents will have no privacy or space. i simply dont know how on earth people can design such rubbish, educated people with degrees! for goodness sake we are going to do it again and we havnt learned a thing since the disasters of the 60s and 70s. that is why we should keep every ugly, poorly designed, ill consived piece of crap that has already been built- as a constant reminder to those brainless idiots who dream up these cheap and not so cheerful housing developments simply for money. regarsless of style or period, thought and planning should be put in to ALL developments, these are the things people are going to LIVE in and which will remain for hopefully a long time to come. this should be the goverments no1 priority, get housing right and surely crime will drop and the econamy improve as people feel good about the place they live, and building houses that last and dont need to be renovated every 20 years will be better for the environment too, along with costing less in the long run. build high quality tower blocks people will live in them, by building sprawling estates the goverment is cutting away at the countryside yet again going back on its environment polocies, people wont also need to commute 10 miles to where they work, which adds to the already choked south. i just cannot comrehend how this country still runs.

quote>

Yes well thats what you get for electing morons! anyway lets not turn this into a political discussion i think that if the government descrewed the planning permission rules so tall buildings could be constructed then instead of building a billion homes, it would be easier to build upwards, but nice attractive appartments with proper security.