Blackberry tries again, this time with Android.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Blackberry Priv

No pricing was given in the article.  Anybody have it?

The idea of Blackberry security + Android might be worth a look if you are an IT professional who also wants access to all the Android apps.  However, does an IT professional have time or desire to access all that junk?

This version is aimed at corporations who are sensitive about compatibility and security.

[MintberryCrunch 83]

BlackBerry is still around? -_-

Honestly, when it comes to Android the phones tend to blur together. The biggest downside of a BlackBerry was its OS and limited range of apps. This might improve its chances of succeeding, but the market is so oversaturated right now. 

[Easy Bakes 253]

I like their non touch screen keyboards. but i still see they still  have not put a row of number keys on it yet

 

the rest looks the same as any other phone

  Edited November 6, 2015 by Easy Bakes  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Blackberry's main claim to fame is security.  Apparently even with Android they have implemented something like Linux AppArmour. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppArmor).

If they also make the SELinux kernel available, this would be good, but I don't see the need for multiple levels of classified material on a smartphone.  All this screaming about availability of apps is simply BS.

[Duke87 1,070]

I've been an Android user as long as I've had a smartphone primarily because I refuse to use an Apple product on principle. It does stick in my craw a bit, though, that iOS generally has better security than Android does, so my ears perked up a bit at the idea of an Android phone with a heavier security focus.

Alas, Android's greatest security shortcoming can't be fixed simply by changing the phone, because it is neither a software nor a hardware flaw, but rather a policy flaw: Android relies on wireless carriers to push updates to device holders and allows them to pick and choose what they make available. Major wireless carriers generally decline to offer updates of any kind unless you buy a new phone, because of course they want to keep selling more phones so people keep signing new contracts. So, you either deal with your OS being near-perpetually out of date or illegally (at least in the US) root your device so you can update it manually.

Meanwhile the fact that Priv supposedly contains DRM hardware to prevent the phone from working if rooted is naturally going to be a major turn-off for anyone who wants to do that.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The problem some people have is that freedom in the licentious sense and security are opposites.  If you want a free-wheeling phone system that is completely vulnerable to all sorts of malware, that is your choice.  Anyway, I get the impression from the announcement that the Priv will only be available to corporate groups that have a security officer.

[hym 358]

All this screaming about availability of apps is simply BS.

It really isn't. Apps are a huge part of what make a smartphone attractive over my other dumb phone. Without apps, my phone basically makes and takes phone calls, maintains a contact list, texts, and that's about it. With apps, my phone:

Offers internet browsing, file management and transfer, scheduling and day planning, office productivity, maps and satellite imaging services, personal and work email, health and fitness monitoring, audio and video playback, shopping assistance, expense tracking, travel planning, educational and training programs, news, reality augmentation, and more. It can even manage itself so that based on various triggers and conditions, it knows to perform XYZ action.

These are all things I can do with my smartphone that would be more or less impossible with a regular dumb phone. Some of them are merely personal convenience, while others are extremely valuable for getting more done in a day. Some are even critical to being able to perform my job.

System security is important, but trumpeting it at the expense of everything else is misguided. No one is going to care about your product because it is an irrelevant offering.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I agree that it is convenient to be able to access applications for business purposes such as office suites, calculators, and such.  However, many of the apps are rather trivial things like small games that quickly pall on the user.  A plethora of apps is an example of information overload. 

What do people need besides some office software, a browser (or two), and a few conveniences?  Right now my Linux distributor is offering something like 75,000 apps.  I am sure there is something for everyone in there, but one wonders about quality assurance on all that stuff.  Most users don't need development software, but on Linux it is heavily oriented to user development because that is part of the general environment.  I used to be a software developer and can appreciate all that stuff, but I don't do much any more other than to maybe monkey with a new language that comes out out of curiosity.

Oh, and what compatibility exists between files maintained on a smart phone vs. a PC?  Where are the files?  [Yes, I know, "in the cloud".  It is not my bag to put things on someone else's hardware/software.  I consider this a very high privacy risk.  People these days blabber their private lives all over the Internet, so I guess privacy and security is the farthest thing from their minds (if any).]

And if you don't want security on your smart phone, you have my deepest sympathy.

[Duke87 1,070]

I agree that it is convenient to be able to access applications for business purposes such as office suites, calculators, and such.  However, many of the apps are rather trivial things like small games that quickly pall on the user.  A plethora of apps is an example of information overload. 

What do people need besides some office software, a browser (or two), and a few conveniences? 

This is unto itself an excellent point. A great many apps, it seems, don't really do much that a webpage in a mobile browser cannot. But, when you view a website in a mobile browser, it can't snoop on you outside of said browser. Install their app, as they will often nag you to do, and they gain the ability to pull information about what you are texting to whom and when, what apps you are using, etc. (seriously, read the terms of service). These apps exist in order to provide more robust data mining to the people making them. If they provide the user with any added convenience that is merely how they are marketed.

There's no such thing as a free app. If you don't pay with money, you pay with information.

Oh, and what compatibility exists between files maintained on a smart phone vs. a PC?  Where are the files?  [Yes, I know, "in the cloud".

The files are on the device itself. Even if they are not stored permanently there, they must be downloaded into the device's cache in order to be viewed on it (streamed audio and video notwithstanding).

Moving files between a smartphone and a PC is pretty easy, all you need is a USB cord which conveniently is half of most chargers these days. At that point the phone becomes just like any other external drive, you can browse folders, copy stuff off of it, and put stuff on it. Files are compatible since they are in the same sorts of formats (jpg and such for images, etc.) that your computer uses.

There are also programs available that will auto-sync things between your devices, but from a security perspective this is not recommended because it means you have no air gap and if one device is compromised, your other devices can easily be compromised as well.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If a mobile browser is capable of installing things it ceases to be a browser and becomes a piece of malware however well intentioned.  At the very most, a browser should only be able to initiate a down/up load of a file.  Installing anything on any device must remain in the purview of the users.  File operations of a browser must also be under the full control of the user.

I've been in the security game for many years, and I am appalled by some of the activities that take place on the Internet that seems to have run riot over security and privacy.  "What fools these mortals be" -- Wm. Shakespeare (in The Tempest, I think).

[Duke87 1,070]

I haven't seen a mobile website actively install something. They do however often pop annoying ads in your face saying "hey, install our app!", which are seemingly designed with the goal of beating the user into submission by making downloading the app easier than putting up with the nagging every time they go to the web page. Presumably if you click yes it's a link to the download page in your provider's app store rather than a direct command to install.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Now you know why I don't have a mobile device.  I don't need one and the pestering would drive me wild.  Is there no adblock software?  I don't even allow popups on my browser.

[Duke87 1,070]

Now you know why I don't have a mobile device.  I don't need one and the pestering would drive me wild.  Is there no adblock software?  I don't even allow popups on my browser.

The mobile version of Firefox does have a mobile version of Adblock Plus, but it only blocks banner ads. It seemingly is not capable of blocking these Javascript-based popups which are not technically "popups" in the classic sense since they open within the page, not in a separate window. And, unfortunately, there is no mobile version of NoScript.

[krbe 193]

What do people need besides some office software, a browser (or two), and a few conveniences?  Right now my Linux distributor is offering something like 75,000 apps.  I am sure there is something for everyone in there, but one wonders about quality assurance on all that stuff. 

Obviously you can't expect much from everything. However, 'a few conveniences' are exactly the reason why you need the app system. Apart from what my old 'dumb phones' did -- call, text, clock, contact list, calculator, and a crappy camera; I now use it for an almost full calendar, pulling weather forecasts in all different shapes and sizes, use it voice recording, video recording and taking pictures (in viewable quality); it keeps the currency overview for me; it has several different map functions (GPS, compass, satelite images) which integrates with several other apps. My email accounts can be managed from the phone, as well as those documents my colleagues insist I read and comment on for them. I can track my packages and buy my stamps on it, read all the documents the government and the banks send to me, pull licence plate information on the fly, get traffic updates. When it comes to construction equipment I can scan a product and get the technical specs, user manuals, etc., on my phone. In addition, I can check up on the stuff shops sell and if they are in stock before I visit. I can share my location with my friends when I'm biking towards them so they don't have to call me to find out if I'm going to be somewhere in five or 30 minutes. As for other travel, my apps take care of my ticket ordering, boarding passes, and other necessary information; I can check in and contact my rail companies, ferry companies and airlines on the fly. I can order taxis in countries where I don't really speak the language. I can buy mass transit tickets or check my balance on my travel card. As for business and finance, I can do all my "standard banking" on the phone, both for myself and the association I'm running. I can take cash transfer via my phone, and take payments by card thanks to an app and a card reader. my receipts are stored on my phone as well. Finally, I can access all the thousand forms we use in my assocation and add, alter and delete information in our databases; I can make invoices on the fly, connect to my desktop computer, and I use it to keep tabs on attendees on events wer are hosting.

Those are not a 'few conveniences'. It covers a lot of my everyday activities, and it keeps me away from my computer. There are no games on my phone (as far as I'm aware at least...); but I wouldn't trust someone saying 'don't worry, we know what you need on your phone and you're going to get that'.

As for secure Android phones, there is always the Blackphone.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ There speaks thoroughly modern Millie.  And what would you do if all this suddenly went off the air?  Hmmmm?  Are you self-reliant enough to live without it or would you just sit in a corner an weep for the lost capability?  The generation gap has never been clearer.

[raynev1 1,886]

^ no doubt . I've been using the same basic flip phone for 4 years . Nothing special , talk , text and a cheap camera . Now the good stuff .

Can you say you have dropped your phone , getting out of a car and it only suffer a scratch ? I can .

Can you say , you have dropped it into a bucket of water and it still work ? I can .

Can you say your phone was dropped on a gravel road , run over by a car and shot out from under the tire (not the first one but the second) land in a ditch with running water and it still work ? I can .

I'm happy with my crappy flip phone . I think I got my $20.00 worth . But since I'm not trendy or all that tech savvy and not a businessman , I'm content with what I got .

Thank you Tracphone , for making a phone that can find me if I get run over by a car and knocked into a ditch or drown .

[Sabretooth78 808]

I own a smartphone.  I figured I would try it.  I'm less impressed with it every day; every day I realize more and more that if you want to get something done, you need to do it on a full-fledged computer.   A smartphone is a jack of all trades, master of none.  Sure, it's great for some productivity as krbe describes, but I think it's often quite superficial and users like that are more the exception than the norm.  At the end of the day, there will always be a place for dedicated equipment.

I'm sick of the constant decline in speed & capability of the device because (presumably) Samsung and/or my provider figure they need to keep updating the software with more bloat so as to fool me into thinking the phone actually became slower and I need to buy a new one (a software reset does nothing).  Or "improved" features such as, for but one example, removing the ability to explicitly enable/disable GPS in favor of a more ambiguous "location" setting that sucks more battery and without which some apps won't even work properly.  Yet another example in today's computing where some tool that now requires 3x the effort to use is considered an improvement.  (Microsoft is another huge offender here - the "ribbon" and new "save" windows in Office, anyone?  Time = money.  Clicks = time.  Approaching middle age = my clicks aren't always as precise as they used to be = more money.)  Rather than entrap me further into the ecosystem with a newer, shinier product, it has just served to ween me off of using it - as my data usage rates attest (my personal best was a whopping 27.39 MB for the period of June 10 to July 9).

I've had it over two years now, so I'm due for an upgrade - back to a flip/feature phone that can actually do what it does well - placing calls and sending texts.  I've considered trying an iPhone, but I'm becoming increasingly disenchanted with Apple of late; not to mention that outside of liking their PCs (for almost 30 years now) I've always been a bit of an iContrarian - Sansa mp3 player, Android phone, etc.  The smartphone will become a redundant wi-fi convenience, glorified calculator and camera for when I'm too lazy to bring the "real" Kodak along - you know, dedicated equipment that has an optical zoom and far superior (read: any) stabilization.

[/rant]

 

...every time they go to the web page...

I'm really thinking just about any conceivable situation one can ever relate is referenced either in Seinfeld or XKCD.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

I'm sick of the constant decline in speed & capability of the device because (presumably) Samsung and/or my provider figure they need to keep updating the software with more bloat so as to fool me into thinking the phone actually became slower and I need to buy a new one (a software reset does nothing).  Or "improved" features such as, for but one example, removing the ability to explicitly enable/disable GPS in favor of a more ambiguous "location" setting that sucks more battery and without which some apps won't even work properly.  Yet another example in today's computing where some tool that now requires 3x the effort to use is considered an improvement.

I just downloaded Samsung's new "upgrade" and saw my battery life immediately decrease a good 25% and yeah, it is slower than it was before.  I'm going to start taking the same approach to their stupid "upgrades" that I do with the stupid apps I never use: no updates, ever.  They remind me every day that there are 22 (or so) apps that need updating, and they all go un-updated because I don't use any of them.  The Sharp phone I had had crappy battery life (it would barely last a day whereas my Samsung USED to last 2), but it was water-resistant and didn't suffer a performance-robbing Samsung update.  I'll probably continue using a "smart"phone because the availability of internet usage is too convenient to not have, but I don't really know why they call them "smart."

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ Ever consider the possibility that the phone is "smart" but the user is thought to be "dumb" by the purveyors?

All these updates are an indication of disbelief in the maxim "If it's not broken, don't fix it.".

[Duke87 1,070]

The problem is twofold. One, hardware designers don't future proof their work, so updates put strain on their resources that they weren't built to handle. Two, software designers have ceased recognizing that there is any scarcity of computing resources, and write bloated programs because they can get away with it.

Of course, this creates a cycle where people are encouraged to buy new devices when an update bogs down the old one, so the people in charge love it and have no motivation to stop it.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

This feels like it could spiral into a discussion into how capitalism kind of sucks when all we're supposed to live for is consumption.  But so far as the Blackberry, I don't really care.  It won't be my next phone unless it's free or very cheap.

[AkemiAzula 280]

My first phone was a Nokia. It never stopped working or broke down but was dumb as anything didn't even have a camera or color screen.

Then bam I decided to enter this century with an Android Samsung.

It was meh. Sure it did a load of stuff my Nokia couldn't but because it was so freaking delicate I had to be all sensitive and caring with it, ugh

However it eventually stopped working after some bugs and updates possibly somewhat exacerbated by my throwing it at a wall because of this.

My IPhone is smart but not efficient. It does all these stupid tricks I am not interested in but its core features are unecessarily updated every ten seconds and updating costs bandwidth and takes time.

At least I have yet to get a virus or any malware which is why I am still with Apple though it will soon be cider at this rate of decomposition...

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I suspect that a Blackberry is not for everyone.  Blackberry does not belong in the same niche as Samsung and the market churners and should relax and enjoy its corporate users.  Blackberry sets are not toys.

[Sabretooth78 808]

...and write bloated programs because they can get away with it.

Agree 100%.  But if you ever want to get flamed, go say something like that over at MacRumors.  It gets the "Apple can do no wrong OMG I love Tim Cook" crowd whipped into a tizzy.

I liken it to storage space in a house.  The more room you have to keep everything in, the worse you utilize the space.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Amen.  People who write apps and operating systems think they have the whole machine to themselves.  The idea of small, efficient, working code seems to have gone by the wayside along with decent testing and qualify assurance.  Bloatware is the order of the day.

I come from an era when memory on a computer was at a premium.  The first machine I used to a major application had exactly 10,000 locations in a system of 12-bit words.  And yes, little programmers, it had decimal addressing. 

We also had a guy around who said "Parity is for farmers." (Seymour Cray).  This machine didn't have an operating system.  It only had a between job monitor, and this provided only drivers for the magnetic devices.  Every time you wrote a program, if you wanted to print something you had to write a printer driver, etc.

[krbe 193]

^ There speaks thoroughly modern Millie.  And what would you do if all this suddenly went off the air?  Hmmmm?  Are you self-reliant enough to live without it or would you just sit in a corner an weep for the lost capability?  The generation gap has never been clearer.

Not at all. Everything that needs backups are backed up in CSV-files and the likes, in case a service dies all of a sudden. Access credentials are stored in case I need them. Basic information exist in paper forms. Contact information is kept on file if needed. I've been through several incidents with loss of database access / complete network access / phone access or being cut off certain basic services, both professionally and privately -- and that has never been a problem. The only difference is the speed of execution.

Quite clearly very few of the examples I mentioned are essential. The world does not fall apart because I can't take pictures, because I can't access the currency rates, maps, direct access to my medical journal, or pay bills by just snapping a picture of the payment form. If I lose web / mobile access to the national property database I'm not precluded from doing background research on landlords; but I would have to file requests and wait one to two weeks to receive an answer instead of spending five minutes to get the complete overview of owner relations.

As I stated in the opening, smartphones and apps are CONVENIENCES. It's not like the accounts won't be done (I don't know about the rest of the world, but we were taught to do it in paper form in highschool) and we won't receive our payments and pay our debts; it's not like I can't get around by asking people for directions; it's not like I can't travel to a store physically pick up technical spec sheets and other documentation for the stuff I have around the house. Tickets will be paid in tickets offices instead, my bank will see me once a week instead of once a year, and my stamps will be the old-fashioned ones instead of a 3x3 digit code (yes, that's how modern I am -- I still send a lot of letters).

But things will be slow. I'll start complaining "The cheque is in the mail", I'll have to spend more time in offices, and crucially, waste a lot of time on processing as well (I suspect I'll be supervising people a lot of the time as well so things are running smoothly). I won't in any way be unable to do anything -- but just don't expect that I'll have time to do it. I'll probably be looking for a binder somewhere.

 

The problem is twofold. One, hardware designers don't future proof their work, so updates put strain on their resources that they weren't built to handle. Two, software designers have ceased recognizing that there is any scarcity of computing resources, and write bloated programs because they can get away with it.

Of course, this creates a cycle where people are encouraged to buy new devices when an update bogs down the old one, so the people in charge love it and have no motivation to stop it.

My current phone is a 5 year old iPhone 4 which replaced my 2.5 year old Samsung a few months back. Compared, the iPhone is brilliant, although its lack of computing power is starting to show. I fear iOS 7.1 is going to render it completely useless even as a secondary phone pretty soon.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Amen.  People who write apps and operating systems think they have the whole machine to themselves.  The idea of small, efficient, working code seems to have gone by the wayside along with decent testing and qualify assurance.  Bloatware is the order of the day.

Props to Civ IV for providing this quote upon completing research on "Engineering" (and spoken by the immortal Mr. Nimoy):

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Last year my grandmother gave me for Christmas a t-shirt that says "Engineer's Motto:  If it's not broken, take it apart and fix it." (or something to that effect).  I've worn it once.  Being of the philosophy of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", Occam's Razor and the analogous quote above and generally all things non-maintenance, that shirt seriously irks me.  It's also too small - so it's not even "future-proofed", so-to-speak.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

<aside> Four computer field engineers were driving along the freeway when they had a flat tire.  They got out the spare, and swapped wheels until they found the right one.</aside>

Oil thigh na banrigen, gubroch.