Transpacific Partnership details completed.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

A new trade agreement among 12 Pacific Rim countries.

Since the U.S., Canada, and Mexico are all part of this agreement, this means the end of NAFTA.  There are lots of arguments still to be heard, and each signatory must have this agreement ratified by their respective legislatures.  Obama likes this, and it could be his swan song.  The Harperman likes it, but it could be his ultimate downfall. 

The Canadian Parliament is currently in limbo, there being a federal election on October 19th.  The current opposition leaders are opposed and at least one of them has said they would kill it if elected as Prime Minister.  The fat is definitely in the fire with this treaty.

One of the great advantages to us here is that it will probably end a lot of the damned supply management in agricultural products that have been keeping prices high.  Besides, New Zealand, who is one of the partners, is known to have superior dairy products world wide.  It might mean that marginal farmers will have to fold or find some other product.  But that's capitalism for you.  The weak go to the wall.

The market covers 800,000,000 people, and I for one am all for free trade.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Bernie Sanders is ignorant for thinking free trade can cause net job loss (decreased producer surplus) and hurt the average consumer (decreased consumer surplus) but copyright should not last 70 years after the death of the author. Many experts have proven that copywrite terms up to 15 years are beneficial and terms over 30 years are harmful.

[Odainsaker 2,134]

This is only the first round...should the agreement finally be implemented, it is expected that South Korea, Taiwan, The Philippines, Thailand, and Colombia will swiftly want to join, with South Korea and Taiwan having the smoothest path in any second round.  Indonesia, Laos, and Cambodia may also later want join, as being left outside the trading pact would leave nations at a tariff disadvantage against regional competitors within the trading pact.  Of course, the elephant in the room is mainland China, against which the Trans-Pacific Partnership is sometimes lauded as a geopolitical counterweight but to which many of the partnership nations are already naturally economically bound.  Should mainland China someday pragmatically choose to instead join an existing TPP rather than pursue its own rival bloc that excludes the U.S., all the dynamics and ramifications of the TPP could dramatically change.

Unfortunately for the U.S., the TPP debate in Congress will occur in the middle of the primary election season with a schizophrenic congressional majority, a cynically polarized electorate, increasing protectionist and anti-Chinese sentiment, and an internet billowing conspiracy theories.  Get your pitchforks ready!

[Duke87 1,070]

This partnership levels the playing field for our farmers, ranchers, and manufacturers by eliminating more than 18,000 taxes that various countries put on our products

Oh sure, it puts them on equal footing with people in countries with looser labor laws and lower standards of living. 

Capital, like water, seeks its own level in the absence of barriers holding it back. The idea that a free trade agreement is going to create jobs in the US is as absurd as the idea that drilling a giant hole in a Hoover Dam would raise the water level in Lake Mead.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

This should increase consumer surplus (lower price of imports) but hurt producer surplus for all but the fanciest things. Factory jobs in the USA will go away, the Big 3 might layoff many workers or exit the market.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

JA (Japan Agriculture) in Japan HATES the TPP.  They hate it with the power of a thousand thousand rising suns, and were running passive-aggressive commercials against on TV all last year.  And then I come back here and find out that there are a bunch of the same farmers and manufacturing plant workers' groups who hate it, too.  I wonder what they would think of each other if they were to ever find out that they held the same feelings as one another.

[dlsni 156]

new zealand is also pretty against the TPP. the benefits for us are only very minor, and the trade deregulation has potential to harm small businesses in NZ. i'm also against copyright laws being extended, and their is fear it will lead to privatisation of some industries/SOEs which personally I'm very against. It seems that our govt has gone ahead and done this deal without listening to the people (protests attracted something like 25,000+ around the country which is quite significant).

Now that more details have been released, I'm glad some of the things that could have potentially happened haven't, but either way I'm no fan of corporate intervention into what i think should be state affairs

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Overall, if you are going to have a capitalistic society, trade barriers are inherently wrong.  The full operation of capitalism states that the weak to to the wall, meaning that they go out of that business.  Local subsidies and tariff barriers serve only to make life more difficult for everyone and keep prices artificially high.  In the North American case it has allowed labour to price itself out of world markets.

As the TPP comes into effect, if it does, I expect serious disruption of traditional labour markets here.  Labour is a lot cheaper in other places, and it really comes down to getting tasks done for the least cost.  So hang on to your hats, because there is going to be some strong winds of change blowing.  ISO standards for quality assurance may help this, but remember that the definition of quality is "Conformance to Requirements".  This means that if requirements are not regulated, things will simply get worse.  Relaxing health regulations could well be rather stupid. for example.

[Duke87 1,070]

JA (Japan Agriculture) in Japan HATES the TPP.  They hate it with the power of a thousand thousand rising suns, and were running passive-aggressive commercials against on TV all last year.  And then I come back here and find out that there are a bunch of the same farmers and manufacturing plant workers' groups who hate it, too.  I wonder what they would think of each other if they were to ever find out that they held the same feelings as one another.

Not surprising. Japan has an even higher cost of living than the US does, they stand to lose a lot of jobs from an agreement like this as well. It is the signatories with lower economic indices (Peru, Chile, Brunei, etc.) that will benefit from this, at the expense of signatories with higher economic indices (US, Canada, Japan, etc.).

Of course while labor will be helped in some places and hurt in others, management will benefit everywhere, since they will profit from offshoring jobs.

[krbe 193]

Indeed, at least such a race to the bottom will get rid of freeloaders like students, patients and pensioners and other unproductive elements, especially in the richer countries.

  Edited October 7, 2015 by krbe  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

There is no question that this is another step towards mediocrity, world-wide.  The system is so badly broken that people won't pay for higher qualify any more.  Now all that is left is greed.  Remember what happened to that ultimately avaricious King Midas.

In this case, the gold will be turned into dross.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Some consumers are willing to pay a premium for quality but they will NOT pay more for the exact same quality. Anyway, the next economic crisis after the TPP is completely finalized, ratified, and enforced will forever remove the vast majority of demand for ALL jobs in wealthy nations where unskilled workers help produce goods that can be traded on the global market. Until robots replace agricultural and construction workers, those will be the primary sources of unskilled jobs in developed nations.

[krbe 193]

consumers don't mind paying a little less for less quality, that is the major porblem (until something goes wrong and they start crying because their airline told them to sod off when they can't take responsibility for their own medications for example...).

Poorer countries than Japan, the US and Canada will get the jobs. Productivity increases in those countries can be transferred to countries with lower production costs. As they get richer, they can also take over more of the more advanced work -- the same way India has become the world's accountant.

The very worst thing is that international agreements like these are generally unamendable. When something happens Parliament discover they abdicated at the signing.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, it will be interesting to see what happens when this comes to votes in the various legislatures of the plutocratic oligarchies.  To a great extent I think it depends on who wins the U.S. 2016 election as to whether the U.S. will ratify this treaty.  With a market of 800 million people, it will be hard for them to turn it down, but they've been heading for isolationism for some time now.  The chips are down.

As for Canada and Mexico, the big winner here would be Mexico which has already been syphoning off jobs due to NAFTA, and auto plants are dying in Canada.  Now if some of the other supply sector supports are removed from dairy and pharmaceuticals, it will be necessary for us to beef up our regulations on cheese and generic drugs.  This will depend on a largely ham-strung Health Canada. 

If the Harperman is returned with a minority, I expect they'll try and jam the TPP through as part of an omnibus budget bill which, being soundly defeated, will put us back on the hustings next spring.  It is starting to look like a dead heat between the right-leaning incumbent Conservatives and the left-leaning Liberals.  The Trendy Pee has shot itself in the foot, which I think was the Conservative intention by having a long election campaign.  Mr. Mulcair has been given enough rope, and has hanged himself.

[Wiimeiser 436]

The copyright laws are the big problem. That and the fact that my brother's medicine will rise from $5 a month to $65535.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The copyright laws are the big problem. That and the fact that my brother's medicine will rise from $5 a month to $65535.

Well, I don't think that would happen if you lived in Canada.  There is a big movement here to include Pharmacare under the Canada Health Act and after the current election it will probably happen no matter who wins.  The election is next Monday with a good chance of a Liberal minority.