Two questions coming from SC4

[Ramona Brie 121]

So I've had my eye on this game, and having been an SC4 player since 2005, I'm very excited for the modernity.

 

I have two questions. One is more about gameplay and the other is technical.

 

#1. For longtime SC4 players, what would you say I should expect from C:S? What are the biggest things I'll notice?

 

#2. I have a 2013 MacBook Air. Unfortunately this means integrated graphics. I've been reading around and say some people can run it but at sorta low frame settings. My current SC4 setup is a Windows VM (though I wouldn't trust it to run a modern game). Is it worth running C:S on my computer or is it so underpowered for the task that I shouldn't bother?

[cromabianca 158]

I can answer both.

 

1) You will feel pretty much "at home", but the simulation is more accurate.

 

2) Been playing it on a MB Air 2013 13" (HD Graphics 5000) and it does run at accectable rates, but the fan will drive you crazy. Also, performances will decrease as you progress (of course, all this in minimum settings). I wouldn't recommend it... sadly enough! Fortunately I happened to have an i7 Lenovo hangin' around (GFX840M 8GB) which runs it splendidly!

[rpc180 9]

Not a long time SC4 player but for #1 the biggest thing that you may have to overcome is the OCD tendencies that SC4 mods allowed.  For instance, NAM road types, linear symmetry, and very controlled aesthetics.  In SC4 NAM highway interchanges always had a nice neat look to them roads could be 2/1 lane asym.  In CS interchanges are much easier to build and very flexible but have the byproduct that are they are often haphazard looking.  Roads are strictly even numbered and one ways are only 2 lanes or super-wide 6.  No terraforming also irritates - IE you have two elevated highways and they are bouncing all over the place with the terrain.  Even mediocre SC4 CJs I've seen have the potential to beat the best CS has to offer right now because of the aesthetic control and tons of ploppable content.  

 

That said, the simulated relationships in CS are super deep, well beyond the RCI model and make it very refreshing.  The population ages/dies and affects workforce/economics, cargo transport is integral to traffic management because raw materials feed manufacturing which in turn feed commercial, and a whole host of other ideas.  A fun was was that my default waste water area on a custom map had 1 too many discharges and reversed the current upstream.  The ecological disaster was something I never had to think about in SC.  Lastly, I hope to never have to hunt down dependencies ever again

[BlitzPackage 19]

So I've had my eye on this game, and having been an SC4 player since 2005, I'm very excited for the modernity.

 

I have two questions. One is more about gameplay and the other is technical.

 

#1. For longtime SC4 players, what would you say I should expect from C:S? What are the biggest things I'll notice?

 

#2. I have a 2013 MacBook Air. Unfortunately this means integrated graphics. I've been reading around and say some people can run it but at sorta low frame settings. My current SC4 setup is a Windows VM (though I wouldn't trust it to run a modern game). Is it worth running C:S on my computer or is it so underpowered for the task that I shouldn't bother?

 

I also played SC4 a ton.  For me, the biggest thing I notice is that the city seems so alive.  Things in the city are not just there for decoration.  A factory has specific people who work there.  People go to their specific homes.  I also think that the simulation overall is much better.  Also, the graphics are much better as well - though that is not the game's strong point at this time.  I think overall, you will really enjoy the freedom and flexibility that you have in the game.

 

About computer, I am not quite sure.  However, if possible, get a new one and run it natively (the game is on PC and Mac).  It's worth it.

[Mystrelia 57]

I'm going to echo what some of the other folks here have said. I started playing SimCity with 2000 and continued through SC4. I did not do SC2013 for several reasons. So far I'm having more fun with Cities: Skylines than I had with any of the SimCity games. For me the reasons are plentiful. One is like BlitzPackage said, in that my city feels so much more alive with all the little Cims going to and fro, making their way to the parks, work, shopping, etc. What I see in my city is a result of something happening in my city, not just random cars zipping down the road or trains on the rails for visual effects. The cars and other vehicles have an actual destination. The trucks are transporting goods, sometimes to other factories and sometimes for export. The delivery vehicles are keeping the stores supplied with goods the factories produce and Cims are buying what the stores have in stock. One of the biggest things for me is how industry works in general. They don't just build up factories and start making things from thin air. Oh no. Instead, the timber industry is hauling supplies to generic industry, oil industry is hauling supplies to timber and generic and wherever else oil is needed. If you're not producing a resource on your map you're going to see trucks from out of your city bringing in what the factories need. Of course this whole thing leads to all manner of needing to deal with the traffic, which is yet another fun thing for my brain to puzzle over. One of the best things about traffic is that (aside from labor) your city depends on these vehicles getting where they need to go and when it comes to setting up off-ramps or train rails or whatever you have to make sure everything actually works.

 

I always had the feeling with a SimCity game that it was all serious business all the time. To me Skylines feels like the developers have a quirky sense of humor which is something I love, and whether these things were intentional or not they kick my imagination into action. I still silently chuckle whenever I see a bug spray delivery truck hauling products from the garment factories. I cracked up yesterday when I saw a truck from the beef patty factory taking a load of goods over to Nylons Galore. Apparently these Cims have learned how to make stockings from beef guts.

 

Another thing I love and find infinitely more realistic is that service buildings don't have radius they cover. Instead it's about accessibility. A single clinic can service a pretty decent sized population as long as the ambulances can get to anyone who's sick. It works the same with fire and police: as long as they can get to a trouble spot in time there's no need to put in more except for in the case of wanting to raise land value and by the time you want to do that you'll most likely be able to afford the services you need for that purpose.

 

There were a couple of things that at first nearly drove me nuts, and one was running out of uneducated work force and wanting to keep my ag and timber industries. The education system is a bit strange, in that just going to elementary school over-qualifies the Cims for jobs for the "uneducated". I finally said phooey on it and now most of those industries have over-qualified workers. Of course I think the whole thing of an elementary school education causing over-qualification for that kind of thing is silly but I also understand it's how the three labor tiers and providing at least some basic resources to your cities are managed and ultimately the generic industry will level up and use many more educated Cims than not, and I also discovered yesterday that the oil industry uses a good number of Cims with an education.

 

Oh! One thing I have to add before I forget! I know there was some grumbling in the early days about no "high-tech" industry like in SimCity. I'm happy to say that's just not true. Third-level industry, while it still produces pollution (although far less than first-level industry) most certainly does have high-tech things going on. We have "Bruce Wayne Industries" and other factories that produce gadgets. There's the Aero plant.

 

At any rate, so far I'm finding it a very enjoyable game. Sure, it isn't perfect and there are some things I am hoping get changed officially but most of my complaints have been with things I thought needed tweaking. For instance, I think the Cims age way too fast by default. I also think vehicles and Cims move much too quickly on the map, so fast they make my head spin. Then even if you save the game while paused you reload to a game that's running. Those three things bothered me more than anything so I'm very happy there were mod fixes for them within a few days of the game's release.

[Ramona Brie 121]

Alright. It sounds like CS is much more nuanced and has a sense of life to it that SC4 just does not.

 

So now I'm looking for more opinions on the technical side. I'm not about to upgrade my computer, but that's really the last thing I'm concerned about.

[rmjohnson144 42]

Alright. It sounds like CS is much more nuanced and has a sense of life to it that SC4 just does not.

 

So now I'm looking for more opinions on the technical side. I'm not about to upgrade my computer, but that's really the last thing I'm concerned about.

 

If you don't upgrade your computer you may be stick around 150k-250k tops.  You'll be on lowest settings possible and lowest resolution possible.

 

I have an i3-4340 (3.6 GHz) and HD-4600 video and got to 150k at 1920 x 1080 (1080p) on default settings (High) and it was lagging pretty bad.  I had to lower to all low and was still lagging pretty bad, but kind of playable.  Next I'll have to turn shadows off.  Then I'll need to lower screen resolution before hitting 250k.

 

On a Mac you'll have less FPS as it is not as optimized for gaming as a Windows PC.

 

You may need more memory as well.  My 250k city uses almost 4gb of ram alone (I have 16GB).  But I'd recommend more than 4GB. I see a lot of isues of people with only 4GB ram.  Remember, your integrated graphics use about 1gb of ram and your OS can use up to 1gb of ram.  Leaving you with only around 2gb of ram to play the game.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

The game's really not going to run well with your specs, and there's also a bunch of Mac port problems they're still working on.  I would at least hold off on it for now.

[Marc Collins 36]

It's SC4 modernized, except with ludicrously unrealistic uniform lot sizes for all buildings.  That means even when more sophisticated buildings get modded, the city will never look like a normal or natural city because low density buildings are too far apart and high density buildings are both too small in footprint and too close together.  The "messy" roads are also an aesthetic annoyance.  They were fine in CiM2, so hopefully several aspects of that sim will makes it way over here.

 

Last point is traffic.  Despite universal complaints and pleas for more than year, a very obvious traffic bug was left to fester by CO and Paradox, ruining CiM2.  A similar traffic bug exists here (with the cars lining up single file on a wide road).  Let's hope they bother to fix it this time.

 

Despite the superior simulation aspects, I can't make the switch from SC4 to C:SL until these show stoppers are addressed.

[Ramona Brie 121]

 

Alright. It sounds like CS is much more nuanced and has a sense of life to it that SC4 just does not.

 

So now I'm looking for more opinions on the technical side. I'm not about to upgrade my computer, but that's really the last thing I'm concerned about.

 

If you don't upgrade your computer you may be stick around 150k-250k tops.  You'll be on lowest settings possible and lowest resolution possible.

 

I have an i3-4340 (3.6 GHz) and HD-4600 video and got to 150k at 1920 x 1080 (1080p) on default settings (High) and it was lagging pretty bad.  I had to lower to all low and was still lagging pretty bad, but kind of playable.  Next I'll have to turn shadows off.  Then I'll need to lower screen resolution before hitting 250k.

 

On a Mac you'll have less FPS as it is not as optimized for gaming as a Windows PC.

 

You may need more memory as well.  My 250k city uses almost 4gb of ram alone (I have 16GB).  But I'd recommend more than 4GB. I see a lot of isues of people with only 4GB ram.  Remember, your integrated graphics use about 1gb of ram and your OS can use up to 1gb of ram.  Leaving you with only around 2gb of ram to play the game.

 

 

I have 8GB RAM.

 

As for the graphics, it seems that it may run but that it won't be pretty.

 

Also, one other question: does this game pretty much require Steam? (It should speak volumes about my PC gaming that I don't even have a Steam account.)

[Mystrelia 57]

Yes, unfortunately it does require Steam. I wish it didn't. I had to make a Steam account just so I could get it. It was also the first game I've seen I wanted to play badly enough to convince me to do that. I don't buy a lot of games, hadn't bought a new one in years until last summer. Since then this is the third I've picked up (the other two are for 3DS).

[Marla_Singer 46]

Yes, the game requires Steam but Steam does offer you services. You don't just download a mod, you subscribe to it, and when a bug is corrected on an already subscribed mod, it will directly be updated at next game launch.
 
As for the roads looking "messy", you do have the freedom to make things much smoother if you feel concerned. I've built my city on a mountain region, and I like using the terraforming tools to make a uniform soft slope for my highways and rails before laying them down. The "soft slope" tool is a real novelty but its results are stunning. As I'm a bit maniac, I also love to create small bridges, as in real life, just to make the slopes even softer.