Geovisitors - Privacy Policy breach?

[MayorTim 16]

If anyone hasn't noticed, in the simtropolis toolbar under the modding files section, is a new Geo Visitors button. When clicked, this button brings you to a tracking site that shows the locations of every member to the site over the last 24 hours, and that information can be pulled up even further in Google Earth.

With this tool you can find the exact address of any Simtropolis visitor in the world. Whats more, with the directons feature included with Google Earth, you can even get dircetions to their house.

I find this highly unsettling, and I think it is a breach of privacy. I hope that Dirk reconsiders it, since it really serves no purpose at all and COULD be used for malicious purposes.

I really don't want a complete stranger ringing my doorbell because he pulled up my address and found out where I live.

If you agree with me, post here.

[the_new_simman 5]

It doesn't really matter because your username isn't shown on the Geo Visitors site, there no way someone can identify where you are located. If it showed your username with the address that would be a problem.

[villarule 2]

im not on there, how disappointing

[MayorTim 16]

I don't really think usernames make all that much of a diffrence.

There are some real idiots in the world, and while I don't think there are any on this board, experience tells me there is a chance a couple visit as guests from time to time. Nonregistered users can access it too, and we get nearly twice as many of them as we do registered users every day.

If an idiot sees that, say, someone who visits Simtropolis lives 10 minutes away, there is a chance they will decide to go pay a visit.

I am still strongly against Geo Visitors. I do admit the chances of anything happening because of it are low, however since I can't find any real purpose for it, I think it should go.

EDIT: Villarule, you will be, GeoVisitors takes a while to figure out you visited. I visited the site 3 times in the last hour (2 telephone calls and a snack break ) And it didn't add my location untill the third visit.

[the_new_simman 5]

Date: 12/2/2005 5:24:17 PM Author: MayorTim I don't really think usernames make all that much of a diffrence. There are some real idiots in the world, and while I don't think there are any on this board, experience tells me there is a chance a couple visit as guests from time to time. Nonregistered users can access it too, and we get nearly twice as many of them as we do registered users every day. If an idiot sees that, say, someone who visits Simtropolis lives 10 minutes away, there is a chance they will decide to go pay a visit. I am still strongly against Geo Visitors. I do admit the chances of anything happening because of it are low, however since I can't find any real purpose for it, I think it should go. EDIT: Villarule, you will be, GeoVisitors takes a while to figure out you visited. I visited the site 3 times in the last hour (2 telephone calls and a snack break ) And it didn't add my location untill the third visit.

quote>

I can see your point now.

 

*ding dong*

Hello

Yeah, I'm from ST and I saw you on Geo Visitors

WTF?

Yeah, just thought I'd say hi

Yeah, well. Leave NOW!

[Fischbob 9]

Geo Visitors thinks that I live in Moncton, New Brunswick, which I don't. So I'm not worried too much. It probably won't be 100% accurate anyway, and as previously stated, it doesn't tell you the person's username.

 

Personally, I was quite angry when GV misread my location. I am proud of my hometown, and my hometown certianly isn't Moncton (*spits at Moncton*) (My hometown and Moncton are mortal enemies, FYI, which is the main reason I was so taken aback).

 

BTW, I was checking out some of the other features on that site. Did you know that ST's server is located in Hamilton, Ontario?

[Voar Tok 4]

Date: 12/2/2005 5:42:37 PM Author: Fischbob

BTW, I was checking out some of the other features on that site. Did you know that ST's server is located in Hamilton, Ontario?

quote>

Yeah, Hamilton is the mailing location for all cash donations to the site.

 

I find it disturbing that the Geo Visitors thing made it to the site.  I visited the Modding Files section not that long ago, and I didn't see it (then again, dirk probably removed it).

[BarbyW 40]

I have to say I am not happy about this and think it should be removed immediately. It is an invasion of privacy and I do not approve of this sort of Big Brother technology.

Barby

[MayorTim 16]

TNS: Exactly.
Fischbob: Hmm, How do you know the visitor from Mancton is you? It could be soeone else who really lives in Mancton, and Geo Visitors just hasn't recognized you yet. I think it is pretty accurate, it got my address exactly correct, and with a nice high def picture of my house for all to see, thanks to google earth.

EDIT: And whats up with the forums? I just got 4 error messages in a row trying to submit this post.

[NicolaiS 8]

After having a look at what this nice looking tool does I have to conclude that I am also not in favour of having this on Simtropolis. It does pinpoint rather accurately where a visitor to the site is located.

Although I do not fear for myself I think we are obligated to our younger friends here to prevent anybody to gain any information about somebodies whereabouts. We all know how many lunatics are hunting down the internet and pray on the young.

Therefor I strongly suggest to take this tool of the site and keep our privacy to the highest possible standard.

[brtim2 10]

Does it actually go to your house address or is it based on the physical location of something more generic?

Like does the internet company have a 'node' that is used for a region and all traffic is filtered there before heading out to the rest of the world. I cannot find documentation on the site either way.

I ask this because if it were to give the physical location of my house I am not too pleased because of some of the crazies out there. But when zooming in it gave me a location in the middle of an airport for, what I can only assume, is my location. There is no one else around that area and I have been on here a couple of times today. So either the program is off or they are not actually basing it off my home address but the location of a 'node' the internet company uses to handle traffic in my area.

[Andreas Roth 604]

While I don't think this tool is able to locate your exact address (maybe the address of your internet provider, since your IP address is bound to a provider, and not to a street number), it might be better to use another type of this service. I know this from another forum, where participating is voluntarily, so only the ones who want to be shown on the map enter their location.

[Rymac91 15]

well to be honest it's not all that accurate...it's very close to where I live but it's off by 2-3 miles...it's not for exact pin pointing...though as a bit of a surise fact...simtropolis has gained over 100 memers in the past 24 hours if my population log is correct...and there are about 2k members on that map...it's going off our IP Addresses so it may vary from your router in the office to the ISP's local office.thats why it's good on some and not on others...I think the cheese's are off a bit since unless only one has logged on it shows 2 entirely differnt spots.....Though I wonder what Skigeek thinks of this...

[Truckin_Papa 0]

I'm just flat out against anything, and I mean anything, that will give out any kind of information about me without my permission.

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[Fischbob 9]

Date: 12/2/2005 7:22:32 PM Author: MayorTim Fischbob: Hmm, How do you know the visitor from Mancton is you? It could be soeone else who really lives in Mancton, and Geo Visitors just hasn't recognized you yet.

Like I said, I was looking at some of the other tools on the site. On one page there was also a little line that said: From my calculations, you are physically in Moncton, New Brunswick.

 

Try it for yourself .

 

Britim's theory about it locating your ISP may be correct, I think that mine is based in Moncton.

[ianpaschal 77]

I was under the impression that it only shows your relative location using zip codes, and nothing more, correct me if im wrong.

Edit:  Yes, I checked, I'm from ann arbor MI, and it doesnt show my house, it just shows downtown, which is not where i live, so its not like someone can go to your house, it only shows the area you're from, and I think its pretty neat.

 

-Scipio

[brtim2 10]

And, apparently, mine fluctuates. I set it up at my blog, just to see if it was more than me and family that were reading it. And because I think it's cool and I'm not gonna stalk anyone. Well there are 4 seperate points, 3 in CA and one in MD. The one in Maryland should be me as it was the first one. Except it isn't even in the right county. The one here is about 5 miles off while the one on my blog is about 35 miles or so off.

At least it's in the right state.

Edit: From the link just posted, it says I am from Catonsville, MD. That is what my blog is showing and I just checked Simtropolis' and it shows the same point. So that means the one I thought was me is not me but someone else and I am reported to be 35 miles or so from where I am actually sitting.

[hamsterTK 93]

hmm, it says here i live in reston, virginia. Thats pretty far from college station, texas.

If youve got a big nationwide isp such as verizon like me, then you got nothing to worry about. If someone followed that address theyde probably be knocking on the door of a small warehouse in a business park and not on a house....

[Dirktator 2,305]

Well, that was the kind of reaction I certainly never expected.

I don't see how any of those pegs on the map constitute an egregious breech of privacy.  Certainly, your ip is far from private -- if you believe your ip is private, you definitely need to update your knowledge.

 

The map shows visitors from their geographic locations.  Not a single iota of information can be tied to any member there, unless you go dig around for it yourself, but then it's only revealed to you. 

 

You can enter your own ip in and it will tell you where you are in the world, just the same that you can do a google search on yourself; that doesn't mean that information is being broadcasted across the net, unless you want to broadcast that yourself. 

 

Personally, I thought it was cool, and reinforced the whole notion of 'international community'.  I dig the fact that someone in Ghana visited Simtropolis -- I don't know who, and I don't care.  There's no way for me to find out who that person is, unless they tell me.

 

To take the path of least resistance, I've removed the geo visitors, if that makes you feel better. 

 

Just remember that every website you visit has the capacity to easily capture your ip, what browser you're using, what site you came from, what operating system you use, etc...  It really doesn't mean anything.  You give up far more private information by using Google to search the web, than you might know; by using Gmail, where nothing is ever erased, etc.  Though it baffles me that you freaked out over such an inoccuous gimmick like geo visitors...

 

But I digress.  As you wish, it's gone.

 

 

[debussyman 1,348]

I also tought it was sort of cool when I first saw it, I really didn't gave it much tought as a privacy issue until I saw this thread since the directions are far off from accurate. And I was really impressed by seeing graphicly how many people visit this great site (It was like using the transport query tool in simcity). But well... if people are unconfortable with it, it's their call.

[Meg 368]

I think it's great that people from far and wide visit here too.   Thank you, Dirk, for doing something cool to illustrate that.   I'm sorry that it freaked people out.

[SamFlash 0]

Date: 12/2/2005 10:33:04 PM Author: SkiGeek I think it's great that people from far and wide visit here too.  Thank you, Dirk, for doing something cool to illustrate that.  I'm sorry that it freaked people out.

quote>

I'm with you on that.  I thought it was really interesting to see all the places in the world where visitors and members were from.  It's much cooler to have it visually illustrated than just reading the names of different cities and countries.  However, if the majority are unhappy with it then I guess it has to go. Too bad.  

[dev 47]

I also think it was cool. It showed me up in my general area, but 30 miles away. I don't at all feel unsafe and I don't think some of you need to be so paranoid. Yes, there are some freaks on this site, but it would be very hard for one of them to find you via this tool. Plus, SkiGeek, one of the biggest fighters for privacy protection on this site agrees that it wasn't dangerous. I thought it was awesome when I first saw it and am disappointed some paranoia caused it to go...

[your_adress_here 11]

I liked it!

[Jasoncw 11,839]

I thought it was cool too, and Dirk is right, your IP address is already very public. No one needs geo-visitors to find out your general location (what geo visitors does). Plus there are visitor statistics programs that alot of big websites use to track where their visitors are coming from (for advertisements or curiosity or something).

But it did take a long time to load. I visited Simtropolis and it was taking forever, so I look at the status bar and it's becuase of geo-visitors. It only seemed to slow me down once though.

And there was a thread doing the same thing a few weeks ago and people seemed to like it alot.

Well, only a few people have posted in this thread so far. Maybe most people like it, and maybe some people will change their minds after knowing that they are not entirely anonymous.

[zmveliger 16]

I agree with both sides... Seeing members on a map is really cool but I think that someone has to agree before showing it. That's the reason why I agree with Jasoncw and think that  this was something interesting. Not perfect but a nice intermediate solution. Not easy to find however...

[Voar Tok 4]

Date: 12/2/2005 10:15:19 PM Author: dirk

Well, that was the kind of reaction I certainly never expected.

I don't see how any of those pegs on the map constitute an egregious breech of privacy.  Certainly, your ip is far from private -- if you believe your ip is private, you definitely need to update your knowledge.

The map shows visitors from their geographic locations.  Not a single iota of information can be tied to any member there, unless you go dig around for it yourself, but then it's only revealed to you. 

You can enter your own ip in and it will tell you where you are in the world, just the same that you can do a google search on yourself; that doesn't mean that information is being broadcasted across the net, unless you want to broadcast that yourself. 

Personally, I thought it was cool, and reinforced the whole notion of 'international community'.  I dig the fact that someone in Ghana visited Simtropolis -- I don't know who, and I don't care.  There's no way for me to find out who that person is, unless they tell me.

To take the path of least resistance, I've removed the geo visitors, if that makes you feel better. 

Just remember that every website you visit has the capacity to easily capture your ip, what browser you're using, what site you came from, what operating system you use, etc...  It really doesn't mean anything.  You give up far more private information by using Google to search the web, than you might know; by using Gmail, where nothing is ever erased, etc.  Though it baffles me that you freaked out over such an inoccuous gimmick like geo visitors...

But I digress.  As you wish, it's gone.

Whoa!  I thought that it was all part of this stuff with the ST trojan.  That would be the reason why I freaked out.

 

If the admins think that it won't be a privacy problem, then I would kind of like to see it back.  It was kind of neat to see roughly where everybody did come from.  And it does reinforce the international community theme to this site.  As out motto goes Many Cities, One Community.  If all it tracks is your IP, then I'm not going to freak out you should decide to bring it back, dirk.  My IP is not exactly private knowledge.

 

I do believe that that we owe dirk an apology.

 

BTW what kind of stuff do you give out when you use Google?

[toxicpiano 125]

hmmm it was only able to place a marker on central (downtown) london, not south london, or my exact address at all. It seemed fine to me.

[guinea 29]

and the guinea knew nothing of the mysterious button that was once there

[Boggy1 45]

Eh, I think it was pretty cool. I kinda wish it was back.
I can see both sides of the argument however.