With Maxis Closing, what impact does that have on SC2013?

[macscfan 117]

Simcity 2013 was hamstrung due to a rushed development and late downgrade of the engine to work on more PCs to maximize sales.

 

I can remember when EA used to publish games that would force you to upgrade your PC.

 

As for the Crytek engine, I assume wozzar is talking about this city builder:

 

http://www.thearchitect-game.com (scroll down for videos).

[wozzar 154]

EA forum users at SC13 are reminding EA how good Cities Skylines is and how SC13 should have been this game. Even a Maxis dev has commented and said it is a good game. EA are sitting back and watching all the gamers go by for CO that would really hurt EA knowing they could have made a better game.

[lars_city 23]

EA forum users at SC13 are reminding EA how good Cities Skylines is and how SC13 should have been this game. Even a Maxis dev has commented and said it is a good game. EA are sitting back and watching all the gamers go by for CO that would really hurt EA knowing they could have made a better game.

 

With the success of Cities: Skylines and the closure of Maxis, all within a week, the pain in the Maxis' employees hearts must be hurting a lot... their own brand completely taken over by an another publisher... ouch!

 

And this was the spike in download rate when Cities Skylines was released on Steam.

 

 

A spike on about 600 Gbps.

[Xenocity 343]

 

Simcity 2013 was hamstrung due to a rushed development and late downgrade of the engine to work on more PCs to maximize sales.

 

I can remember when EA used to publish games that would force you to upgrade your PC.

 

As for the Crytek engine, I assume wozzar is talking about this city builder:

 

http://www.thearchitect-game.com (scroll down for videos).

 

So do I.

I also remember the when people were upset they had to upgrade their PCs to play Simcity 4 at launch and how they gave EA and Maxis an earful. 

PC sales have been contracting steadily for since 2006, with PC gaming contracting revenue wise since 2003. 

 

Most PC sales  are now cheap low end models that may still run 32-bit processors and XP. 

The only PC maker seeing growth is Apple by double digit amounts with Macs.

[wozzar 154]

 

Simcity 2013 was hamstrung due to a rushed development and late downgrade of the engine to work on more PCs to maximize sales.

 

I can remember when EA used to publish games that would force you to upgrade your PC.

 

As for the Crytek engine, I assume wozzar is talking about this city builder:

 

http://www.thearchitect-game.com (scroll down for videos).

 

Thats the one Endo are the deveopers. It looks like according to the web site they are making a game.

[wozzar 154]

How can EA make a mistake twice with Si

 

 

EA forum users at SC13 are reminding EA how good Cities Skylines is and how SC13 should have been this game. Even a Maxis dev has commented and said it is a good game. EA are sitting back and watching all the gamers go by for CO that would really hurt EA knowing they could have made a better game.

 

With the success of Cities: Skylines and the closure of Maxis, all within a week, the pain in the Maxis' employees hearts must be hurting a lot... their own brand completely taken over by an another publisher... ouch!

 

And this was the spike in download rate when Cities Skylines was released on Steam.

 

 

A spike on about 600 Gbps.

 

I reckon the sales for this would have far exceeded CO and Paradox expectations which is good for us gamers. And i have to say this is a very good game and it does have a Sim City feel to it. You can tell that the devs were influnced by the old Sim Cities it is very evident in the game.

[macscfan 117]

 

 

I also remember the when people were upset they had to upgrade their PCs to play Simcity 4 at launch and how they gave EA and Maxis an earful. 

PC sales have been contracting steadily for since 2006, with PC gaming contracting revenue wise since 2003. 

 

Most PC sales  are now cheap low end models that may still run 32-bit processors and XP. 

The only PC maker seeing growth is Apple by double digit amounts with Macs.

 

 

That's actually an interesting issue (and fwiw, Cities: Skylines has forced more than a few to upgrade).

 

It's not just that many PCs and laptops are cheap, but it's that over the last 5-7 years, if you got a decent dual-core system with decent memory, you were good to go for several years (outside of high-end gamers/photographers/etc.).  If you were a Mac user, you were definitely good to go for several years since Apple didn't race to the bottom in performance/components.  I play mostly on a 5-year old iMac, and throwing an SSD in it recently made it feel like a brand new machine.

 

So we kind of got spoiled with having decent machines that last several years, unlike say in the 90s and early '00s where you could see significant boosts in performance every year or two if you upgraded.  Game developers were always trying to develop based on what they thought would be available a year or two out, and they knew that for the most part, gamers would happily upgrade.

 

So I can see the issue of developing games for the market as it is, especially since the performance for mid-level machines is so much better versus even 5 years ago (where you still had plenty of single-core users around).  Plus a whole lot of people fell in love with the smaller laptops that became available.  

[macscfan 117]

Paradox announced that they sold 250,000 copies of Cities: Skylines in the first 24 hours.  Their biggest launch ever, and didn't count the pre-orders and sales since then.

 

I bring that up, because that should show EA that there is still a market for city builders, regardless of how many SC2013 players became disenchanted or went back to SC4, not to mention those hooked on C:S.

 

If EA had a desire to keep the SC franchise alive, and make money, they could do two things.

 

1) Take a look at their mobile SC offerings (both Build-it and the previous SC3K or whatever port) and realize those offerings did some things badly in a very obvious manner, but had a few good bits that could be kept.  Take a look at all of the resource management games masquerading as city builders.  There are a lot of them, and some of them have brought in a lot more money than even SC2013 did (seriously, some of those resource managers brought in insane money).

 

Think about the platform - phones and iPads (and Android).  Think about when and where people play a lot of their games.  It's usually not for very long, and you can't get too deep in the depth/complexity, both for lack of playing time, and computing power.

 

Go back, and take a look at SimCity 2000.  I think it could be the perfect city builder for a tablet, if you updated the systems (look at the bugs/issues people had), and the graphics.   Don't add much too it - you gotta keep things simple given the platform.  Think of a "SimCity 2000 Remastered".  Make it look beautiful, but don't go overboard with anything that will kill performance or drive players away.  If you want to revive multiplayer...it'll be a little difficult, but it's doable.  Make sure it's taking full advantage of Apple's game/cloud stuff so that people could load their cities up on whatever device (or Google Drive if you go that way) they happened to be on.

 

I got to witness the development of one of EA's "free-to-play" games and it was not pretty, and the people involved were not in touch with their potential audience at all. About 9 months from the launch, I knew the game was going to be a failure, before I even saw a playable build.  They kept throwing around the F2P buzzwords and how the game would change everything. I remember telling somebody that a certain mechanic that was meant to encourage people to spend money would cause some people to just stop playing.  Lesson: Don't give people a completely new version of a game that has very little to do with its namesake.

 

You don't need a huge team either.

 

Here's where it gets tricky.  Make it a city builder, not a resource manager.  Stay away from all of the "Free-to-Play" mechanics.  Sell the game for $5 or $10, do not create mechanisms that "encourage" people to spend more money to speed things up, because when people run into those walls, many will leave.  Sell an all-in-one game for a flat price.  

 

SimCity 2000 with updated graphics and bug/system fixes for tablets.  If you want to bring in optional DLC as an in-app purchase, such as city tile sets, fine, but DO NOT get into a situation where it becomes "pay-to-win" or Advanced Resource Management 101.

[macscfan 117]

The other thing, and again, stick with a small team, is simply an updated version of SC4.  If you want to toss in some multiplayer, go ahead.  Don't play around with DRM, don't play around with telling people what they CAN'T do because of limitations with the engine that should never have been there.

 

If C:S was done with 9-14 people during most of its development, EA could afford to have 15-20 people on a true SC5.  

 

You could even share art between the mobile and desktop platforms, which would save money and also help with sales between both (basically selling people two copies of SC - one on desktop, one on mobile).  If done right, you can share cities between tablets and desktops - I have quite a few desktop programs that share data with my iPhone and iPad, and a SimCity sharing cities between my iMac and iPad is quite doable.

 

The only issue with sharing cities is my suggestion of using SC2000 for the basis of a mobile offering, and SC4 for the desktop offering.

 

Don't try and "reinvent" the genre, or whatever they were trying to do with SC2013.  Give people what they want, SC5.  Paradox/CO proved it could be done on a small budget with a small team in just a year or so.

 

The only barrier is that it's not as sexy and money-making as the kinds of franchises EA wants (although I think if done right it would climb up into Sims territory).

[Xenocity 343]

 

 

 

I also remember the when people were upset they had to upgrade their PCs to play Simcity 4 at launch and how they gave EA and Maxis an earful. 

PC sales have been contracting steadily for since 2006, with PC gaming contracting revenue wise since 2003. 

 

Most PC sales  are now cheap low end models that may still run 32-bit processors and XP. 

The only PC maker seeing growth is Apple by double digit amounts with Macs.

 

 

That's actually an interesting issue (and fwiw, Cities: Skylines has forced more than a few to upgrade).

 

It's not just that many PCs and laptops are cheap, but it's that over the last 5-7 years, if you got a decent dual-core system with decent memory, you were good to go for several years (outside of high-end gamers/photographers/etc.).  If you were a Mac user, you were definitely good to go for several years since Apple didn't race to the bottom in performance/components.  I play mostly on a 5-year old iMac, and throwing an SSD in it recently made it feel like a brand new machine.

 

So we kind of got spoiled with having decent machines that last several years, unlike say in the 90s and early '00s where you could see significant boosts in performance every year or two if you upgraded.  Game developers were always trying to develop based on what they thought would be available a year or two out, and they knew that for the most part, gamers would happily upgrade.

 

So I can see the issue of developing games for the market as it is, especially since the performance for mid-level machines is so much better versus even 5 years ago (where you still had plenty of single-core users around).  Plus a whole lot of people fell in love with the smaller laptops that became available.  

 

I am a Mac user, I grew tired of all the driver and Windows issues and jumped ship to Macs.

Never had any major issue running Windows on my Late 2011 Macbook pro ( I also upgraded the RAM to 16GBs).

 

It's literally the best Windows PC I've ever owned....!

 

With that said, the PC market double hit by the rise hardware and Windows prices (yes Microsoft and Intel raised prices two years ago) and smartphones.

People are more than happy to use their smartphones over their PCs for most functionality, this has led people to stop buying PCs in favor of smartphones.

Though the smartphone market rapidly slowing in sales now too.

The tablet market is also contracting fast too. 

 With this double whammy, it has sped up the market decline.

 

Not many people want to pay more than $500 for the PCs anymore.

 

Hopefully I'll have enough money to upgrade to a new Macbook Pro with a dedicated graphics card by the end of the year (or when ever Apple upgrades the line)

 

Though i do constantly hear people complain about how over priced iPhones are at $200 a pop for the newest model with subsidizes. 

My dad is still convinced that he can find a 2015 PC laptop for $500 - $700 that outclasses my late 2011 Macbook pro with dedicated graphics card (he's an Industrial Engineer who constantly reminds me on how PCs put Macs to shame in performance while only costing a few hundred dollars).

 

As for Cities Skylines, I'll honest be surprised if they can hit 1M sales at the current price without the need for  massive Steam sale.

 

As for making a Simcity 5, without the main Maxis studio, there are no developers left at EA who want to make that type of game.

EA's other developers want to make the next shooter, sports games, racer, action/adventure M rated game, cinematic game etc...

They don't want make a kiddy/casual/nerdy game such as Simcity with it's simulation and bright colors and E ratings. 

EA isn't stupid enough to force them to make it, just like Sony isn't stupid enough to force their Western developers to make Vita games (Nearly all of Sony's studios are in the West).

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

 

I can remember when EA used to publish games that would force you to upgrade your PC.

 

Yes, I remember that era of gaming, and may it stay DEAD.  I have never had the income flow required to upgrade or buy a new computer with each new game. 

 

I, for one, don't care if the game looks stunningly beautiful - I've quite happily played SC2013 on low graphics settings.  I care about gameplay.  Nowadays most systems bought in the last five years can handle any new game engine.  In the early 90's, new games required new cards, CPUs, etc. 

[macscfan 117]

 

As for making a Simcity 5, without the main Maxis studio, there are no developers left at EA who want to make that type of game.

EA's other developers want to make the next shooter, sports games, racer, action/adventure M rated game, cinematic game etc...

They don't want make a kiddy/casual/nerdy game such as Simcity with it's simulation and bright colors and E ratings. 

EA isn't stupid enough to force them to make it, just like Sony isn't stupid enough to force their Western developers to make Vita games (Nearly all of Sony's studios are in the West).

 

 

I have known many people who worked or work at EA, know quite a few currently working at BioWare. There are plenty of developers at EA who want to make a unique game that does not fall into the template EA seems to be laying out (sports/shooter/action/FPS/mobile "free-to-play").   Unfortunately, they are not in a position to decide what games EA wants to make in order to please the shareholders.

 

The riskiest games they currently make are on the mobile platform, because that's where they can experiment without risking too much, while at the same time the potential for a massive profit is there.  

 

I think if they truly want to bring back SC as a franchise, start with a remastered SC2000 on the iPad.  Could be done with a 15 member team (or fewer).

 

Yes, I remember that era of gaming, and may it stay DEAD.  I have never had the income flow required to upgrade or buy a new computer with each new game. 

 

I, for one, don't care if the game looks stunningly beautiful - I've quite happily played SC2013 on low graphics settings.  I care about gameplay.  Nowadays most systems bought in the last five years can handle any new game engine.  In the early 90's, new games required new cards, CPUs, etc. 

 

 

I understand the sentiment, although in defense of developers back then, computer hardware was making huge advances every year or two, and it was making a huge difference in what could be done in terms of gameplay.  Now, many people can do just fine on a 5-year old machine (especially if they toss in a $100 SSD).

[Xenocity 343]

 

 

As for making a Simcity 5, without the main Maxis studio, there are no developers left at EA who want to make that type of game.

EA's other developers want to make the next shooter, sports games, racer, action/adventure M rated game, cinematic game etc...

They don't want make a kiddy/casual/nerdy game such as Simcity with it's simulation and bright colors and E ratings. 

EA isn't stupid enough to force them to make it, just like Sony isn't stupid enough to force their Western developers to make Vita games (Nearly all of Sony's studios are in the West).

 

 

I have known many people who worked or work at EA, know quite a few currently working at BioWare. There are plenty of developers at EA who want to make a unique game that does not fall into the template EA seems to be laying out (sports/shooter/action/FPS/mobile "free-to-play").   Unfortunately, they are not in a position to decide what games EA wants to make in order to please the shareholders.

 

The riskiest games they currently make are on the mobile platform, because that's where they can experiment without risking too much, while at the same time the potential for a massive profit is there.  

 

I think if they truly want to bring back SC as a franchise, start with a remastered SC2000 on the iPad.  Could be done with a 15 member team (or fewer).

 

Actually you can get a remastered version of Simcity 3000 iOS (or was it delisted) and Simcity HD (which is based on Simcity 4). 

 

The only reason why EA and the rest of the Western Developers are even dabbling in Mobile, is to please shareholders.

Though mobile hasn't been kind to any of them. 

 

Thanks to Neogaf leaks EA and Western developers aren't in the market of making mobile, handheld, kiddy/casual games.

They want to make the next big shooter, the next big cinematic game, and/or the next big mature game. 

They don't want to be associated with bright colors, E ratings, family friendly image.

They want to be associated with the next blockbuster game, state of the art graphics etc... 

 

It also doesn't help that there isn't a market on PC, Playstation and Xbox for anything that isn't hard T rating (Minecraft is the sole exception). 

We've seen the traditional/hardcore market openly reject E rated and colorful games since the late 90s.

Though there is Nintendo consoles and handhelds, but Nintendo has never catered to the traditional/hardcore market. 

 

Sales data doesn't lie. 

[macscfan 117]

The only SimCity you can now obtain for iOS is SimCity BuildIt (although I think previous owners of SC3K/HD can still download those versions).

 

I mention SimCity 2000 because I think it would be perfect for the more "casual" play that works well with mobile.  "Casual" play is a bad word with some, but I think a lot of newer gamers these days could be intimidated by any SimCity that's more complex than that, and I see it as an opportunity to create new SimCity fans.

 

For the most part, I agree with you about what EA wants:  Shooters, licensed/movie games, and mature stuff.  There are plenty within EA that would gladly do other stuff though, and they could make EA plenty of money.  In theory, SimCity 2013 brought them a good $150 million or more (while there were sales, there was also DLC), and had they not botched it, could have brought twice that amount easily.

[Xenocity 343]

The only SimCity you can now obtain for iOS is SimCity BuildIt (although I think previous owners of SC3K/HD can still download those versions).

 

I mention SimCity 2000 because I think it would be perfect for the more "casual" play that works well with mobile.  "Casual" play is a bad word with some, but I think a lot of newer gamers these days could be intimidated by any SimCity that's more complex than that, and I see it as an opportunity to create new SimCity fans.

 

For the most part, I agree with you about what EA wants:  Shooters, licensed/movie games, and mature stuff.  There are plenty within EA that would gladly do other stuff though, and they could make EA plenty of money.  In theory, SimCity 2013 brought them a good $150 million or more (while there were sales, there was also DLC), and had they not botched it, could have brought twice that amount easily.

Simcity 2000 is the hardest mainline Simcity game to date.... 

 

Simcity 2013 wouldn't have been that profitable unless they sold the online portion as a subscription on top of the actual software price aka WoW style. 

 

Shooters, M rated games, sports etc... bring in at least half of the profits and revenue in gaming. 

 

With that said Neogaf and Steamspy released the Steam million seller list today. 

Almost 80%+ of the list is M rated games and shooters. 

 

Also Simcity 4 failed to break one million on Steam, as did all the Maxis games released on Steam. 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1023457

[rmjohnson144 42]

I wouldn't expect Simcity 4 to make huge sales on steam.  Steam was released after SC4.  I think SC4: Rush Hour came out around the same time, but not sure if Steam had a deal with EA yet.

 

Even if Steam had been able to sell SC4 on release day.  It would have been hard to break 1 million.  City builders are just too slow for the casual gamer.  So they aren't going to be a big seller.  I know I've owned every SimCity game. They were always too slow for me, but they were enjoyable enough that I always came back and played somewhat often.  Not enough action, but fun to play occasionally.  

 

Although, Simcity 2013 was more game oriented.  It has a lot of negative effect for playing badly.  I easily have played SC2013 more than all other simcities combined.   I think I have around 10,000 hours in now.  lol.  Too bad they abandoned it instead of fixing it.  It had such huge potential.  I just hope CS can fill the void after some expansions and or more mods.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

I wonder if we're ever going to see another patch.

[thelumia 0]

I wonder if we're ever going to see another patch.

Lets hope so

[Mister Giggles 310]

   Also Simcity 4 failed to break one million on Steam, as did all the Maxis games released on Steam. 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1023457

SimCity 4 has recently more or less broken 1 million owners on Steam.

[Linoa06 1,374]

   Also Simcity 4 failed to break one million on Steam, as did all the Maxis games released on Steam. 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1023457

SimCity 4 has recently more or less broken 1 million owners on Steam.

Wasn't the case when the quoted post was made though, but yes, SC4 is still going strong. That's great! City builders -can- break the 1.000.000 barrier.