Simcity - What couldve been

[Airplane09 13]

 

 

 

I'm having my BIGGEST, BIGGEST hopes on another city building game... it's called CITYBOUND people, made by one man and looks already absolutely stunning. Citybound,....... people ! ! ! ! Cities Skyline also looks interesting, but Citybound promises EVERYTHING that SC missed and SO MUCH MORE ! ! ! ! ! ! I think it worths at least one  search on Google... it also has a forum here, on Simtropolis (at indie projects).

 

As of now, Citybound is just city simulator. No more. It almost appears to be a transport simulator with elements of a city simulator. On the inside and outside, it feels like a cold, wet basement. No renovation can fix that.

Citybound may have the hype, but it doesn't have the character. No unusual quirks like SimCity. No feeling of homey-ness. Nothing to make the user come back other than a memory of "SimCity's launch sucked so I'm going to try and "I'm trying to see the outcomes of that game, and they all end up as the same thing: Citybound will become a cheap indie game with no vision other than a "city simulator."

 

How much time is needed to come up with a good game? I think a lot. But Citybound is just about 25 weeks old ! There is no way anyone can tell how it will look when it comes out because the project is simply too "young". The graphics might not be the most advanced, but I don't really want opulent windows and doors and flowers on balconies.......

Sometimes, minimalistic is better. And above everything else, it promises to be a good city simulator, with all transportation options (bus, tram, rail, tube ; bus / bike / pedestrian lanes), proper economic chains, A HUGE 50 by 50 KILOMETERS MAP, millions of citizens....... and sooooo much more !

Isn't this what we actually want????

Maybe, you like the idea "Hey there's a house, I think I'll stay there for the night..........(in the morning he goes looking for the first job that pops out)......... There's a job, I'll think I'll take that one........(comes back from the job in the afternoon - goes to the first house that pops out)............There's another house, I guess I'll have it.........." more. Do you remember this one?

To sum up, I think Citybound will be a great succes, Cities Skylines looks promising too, let's hope that these simulators will cover the gap that SimCity has created, and, in the end, let's agree to disagree.

 

Airplane09.

 

As far as I can tell, all cities will look the game. A couple curved streets and a large grid later, all the buildings will become repetitive and there will be NO CHARACTER in the game.

 

If someone can prove me wrong, I'll get you an ice cream cone.

 

I think your beloved game will run into the same problem Maxis didn't want to deal with: in an agent-based simulation, storing individual data in thousands, possibly MILLIONS of agents, since there will be 50km^2 maps, will screw any computer over. NO programming can fix this problem without memory leaks or a BEEF computer.

You said that simplicity is sometimes best. Maxis used the "first come first serve model" because it WAS simple. Buildings produce property taxes instead of a 10-step long process of collecting money at specialized buildings, making even more agents go from building to building collecting money into a centralized pool which goes to that center, industrial warehouses, and to a treasury wing at a town hall. Why make all that money so fogged up by the simulation?

Why would you really care about ONE sim unit out of THOUSANDS of others? All of them work together to produce the simulation! I know I don't care about what sim goes into what house, workplace, or commerical center! It's an illusion of a simulation that ACTUALLY exists.

 

And just for the record, the new SimCity is phenominal. With 3D Graphics V6 and Agent-based simulation, it essentially redefined the genre! There's a reason the game wasn't the Fifth SimCity: A fundamental change in mechanics requires an image change. And now everyone's using agents for a simulation.

 

As I said earlier, there is no way you can tell if my "beloved" game will run into the troubles SC did...., so this conversation doesn't make sense, since our opinions don't have a solid base, just speculations.

We'll wait and see how it goes. All I did was recommending an indie game, take it how it is, I just thought that it deserves being noticed...

[Aprince 8]

 

And just for the record, the new SimCity is phenominal. With 3D Graphics V6 and Agent-based simulation, it essentially redefined the genre! There's a reason the game wasn't the Fifth SimCity: A fundamental change in mechanics requires an image change. And now everyone's using agents for a simulation.

 

 

I just dont get why people will defend this game and claim it to be phenominal. Adding agents to the game was a novel idea for sure, and the game has some pluses to it. Such as being able to upgrade buildings, make cash, hq rewards and 3d graphics (others could argue they look like plastic poo). However, the agent based system is flawed, the game mechanics dont work or are just broken and the overall game is lacking.

 

I, like many other SC fans have put in hundreds of hours trying to play around a flawed game, but we wont claim this game is great. Its like i originally stated - "what could've been" - this is simcity in a nut shell.

 

With this lacking buggy reboot of simcity, EA/MAXIS left the door wide open for new comers like citybound, cities:skyline and others for sure. Id mention Cities XL, but Focus Home entertainment doesnt seem intent on giving the game any love and taking it where it could possibly go. Whatever happened to those civitas peeps who were on kickstarter during simcities launch.

[MushyMushy 3,618]

I simply find good ol' SC4 far superior (in some aspects) to SC2013. Sure, the new one has agents and 3D graphics, but the agents are flawed (as Aprince said), and the 3D graphics are kinda... okish (I must say that the lighting/sun glare on buildings effect is superb though).

 

The people who say that SC4's graphics are lame because it's rendered in 2D need to open their mind a bit and turn off their blinders. Sure, it's rendered in 2D, but the buildings in SC4 just look generally more realistic (especially the HD ones that modders have made of the years). The 3D graphics also bring in another flaw: they're so detailed that we can't have a realistically-sized city tile. I'm honestly fine with the small tiles, except that we can't build them right up to each other like we could in SC4 (to make one large city that was simply called a region, lolz). And don't even get me started on the great works - rofl.

 

Then there's zoning.  Zoning is SC2013 is laughable. I was baffled as to why they took the ability to choose zone density from us.

 

I will say that I like SC2013's upgradable buildings, but this could (in theory) be accomplished in SC4 by just building a modular set that you can add the pieces together over time time "upgrade" the building.

 

No highways in SC2013? Even though the original SC4 Maxis highways SUCK in my opinion, at least we had them.

 

The curvy roads of SC2013 can be fun, but they're also a curse. It's pretty tedious to be precise with them... This was the glory of SC4's tiles. Networks were pretty simple and precise, and with the addition of the NAM/SAM/NWM/RHW, they have become phenomenal and quite fascinating to look at.

 

I'm not going to say SC2013 sucks in every way, as it does have some strengths, I must (overall) say that the game really wasn't released in a finished state and should've been worked on more. I do realize that the same goes for SC4's vanilla game, but I think SC4 is a tad easier to mod.

[zbeginendz 55]

No lag stutter very smooth gameplay still on normal speed. I would estimate my total region pop after finishing every city around 30 million. The largest city I have seen in SC4 was a little over 100 million.

 

 

 

[London-b 90]

The original buggy Cities XL was more fun than this. I'm still not sure whether this was a serious release or a cruel social experiment. 

[AidanA28 17]

Just a few comments...

a. There's no need to get all huffy and mean to anyone giving SC13 props, Aprince(ess)

b. We should offer Maxis support, as much as we can. If that means buying SC13 even though we are never going to really enjoy it, so be it. It's not the Satan of video games.

c. EA is the bully of the schoolyard. 'nuff said.

d. While I hold modders in the highest esteem, it just isn't the same when mods are added to the original game. Patches deserve to be original.

e. A metaphorical SC6 could be much less buggy and much better than SC4 and SC13 combined, that is if Maxis can break free of EA's shackles. Another reason to offer Maxis support.

[crishy 57]

SimCity could have been much much more. Unfortunately in my opinion and as of now it is a very small stub compared to SC4, with or without mods. Hopefully SC mods in the future will be able to add more layers because right now the game is just like the Toronto Star building is in Toronto - stale and bland.

 

Granted it is geared towards casual players and nothing against that since EA is a business above everything else, and I respect that, but even then I think that adding a few more tools at launch or in updates for added player creativity would have certainly been possible without wrecking the casual play model.

 

PS to last poster: one mainly buys games if they are good, and avoids them if they are bad, and not to make a statement for or against the company, which you do anyway indirectly if you do the former. Also, EA fully owns Maxis so the latter is nothing more than just another EA asset, so supporting Maxis by buying the game is exactly the same as supporting EA (that you described as the "bully").

[AidanA28 17]

Ah, good point I suppose.

Edit- Been thinking on this for a while, and I still hold firm that we are "making a comment" already. But a comment based off someone who has never played the game is useless. And, it's not all about "making a comment" it's about support.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

PS to last poster: one mainly buys games if they are good, and avoids them if they are bad,

 

Not quite.  When a game first comes out no one really knows if they are good or bad.  In the case of Simcity you are buying on the basis of the franchise's name and history, not if the game you are buying is good.  You really don't know if a game is good or bad until you have paid the money, or gotten a chance to play a demo/friend's copy.  A game that gets terrible reviews can still be liked by players, and a game that gets good reviews can be a steaming pile.

 

Now if we could play the games and then pay for them or get refunds within say a week that would be the best thing for the consumer - however companies prefer the Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware) model, because they'd rather get our money before we see the game.  It's far easier to sell hype than gameplay.

 

[crishy 57]

 

PS to last poster: one mainly buys games if they are good, and avoids them if they are bad,

 

Not quite.  When a game first comes out no one really knows if they are good or bad.  In the case of Simcity you are buying on the basis of the franchise's name and history, not if the game you are buying is good.  You really don't know if a game is good or bad until you have paid the money, or gotten a chance to play a demo/friend's copy.  A game that gets terrible reviews can still be liked by players, and a game that gets good reviews can be a steaming pile.

 

Now if we could play the games and then pay for them or get refunds within say a week that would be the best thing for the consumer - however companies prefer the Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware) model, because they'd rather get our money before we see the game.  It's far easier to sell hype than gameplay.

 

 

I am well aware of the points posted in the last paragraph. However not being able to play before you buy is not an impediment for making an intelligent decision. You can do that by reading or watching critic and user reviews and forum contents. Remember, you are not forced to preorder the game or buy the game on the very first day of sale. If you insist you can always read the threads about future content and people playing the beta versions. A mixture of both critic and user reviews. Granted they are not your experience on your game but you can definitively do an intelligent decision based on what other people are saying of the game. By intelligent I do not mean blindly following the reviews to the letter but knowing yourself and your likes and using the reviews' information coupled with your own likes and expectations of the game to get to a conclusion. And that is not even without playing a demo.

 

Considering the amount of sources you can draw from, you definitively do not need to rely on game name alone especially when you know big changes that might make the game not your cup of tea be implemented. You can get a lot of information that way. Because most people are not made of money (well I know I am not) you only buy games blindly if you have some money you really do not mind forking over and at least one of the below:

 

1) you are a casual player in which case brand power may indeed compel a lot of people to buy it.

2) you are a hardcore fan of the entire series and want to play all no matter the game merit.

3) when you are almost assured that the game will have the elements you liked in previous installments. Some games will change very little with time like series like FIFA or CoD (in fact sometimes so little as to question why buy the game in the first place). Still, the moment I found out FIFA 14 had no creation centre in the PS4 because they rushed the production I got pissed off (yea sometimes your checks do fail to find crucial bits of information, but I probably would have bought it anyway as it was the first new gen console football game) - likewise I found out they are going to cut Brazilian clubs in FIFA 15 so I guess I will wait for FIFA 16.

4) you do not want to see any type of game spoilers.

5) are pretty sure that without even knowing the game first that it will amuse you when you see it on the shelf even if the game turns out to be average at best.

6) the game is very cheap or was given free.

 

Either way, if I think the game will be worth it I will still buy it around at launch time and the company will have the full amount they deserved without depreciation with time and my support accordingly. Even then sometimes you do bad intelligent guesses but overall it works better for your pocket if you play safe rather than just going blindly for it. I rather miss on a game I would have in fact enjoyed after all than wasting my money in a place holder. Last time I went with name alone was with Empire Total War at launch (as a huge Rome Total War and Europa Barbarorum fan) and I got utterly disappointed. Otherwise I will wait until the price goes down or I will not buy it at all, depending on the subjective vs. value potential I give to the game.

 

Most blind games I buy (at launch or not) or get are based on the potential amusement factor or in price.

 

Sometimes you want to support the company based on their merit or work (i.e. Planetary Annihilation's kickstarter) but even then before you get to know a bit about the work or project itself.

 

Anyway while I realize that a lot of people buy on name power, that my point above and on my original post is that you buy games at the very least with the expectation that the game will be good in some way or another. Of course, as you mentioned, whether that turns out to be really true after can only be done after playing the game itself. You can decrease disappointments substantially however as I stated above.

 

I have been a very long time silent Simtropolis user so it was not hard for me to come to a decision not to buy the game. Still got it as a gift so it is all good to me. ^^ Does not change the fact that it was, unsurprisingly, not my cup of tea after playing for a very brief while (not that I had a choice here) as I had decided beforehand.

[AidanA28 17]

 

 

PS to last poster: one mainly buys games if they are good, and avoids them if they are bad,

 

Not quite.  When a game first comes out no one really knows if they are good or bad.  In the case of Simcity you are buying on the basis of the franchise's name and history, not if the game you are buying is good.  You really don't know if a game is good or bad until you have paid the money, or gotten a chance to play a demo/friend's copy.  A game that gets terrible reviews can still be liked by players, and a game that gets good reviews can be a steaming pile.

 

Now if we could play the games and then pay for them or get refunds within say a week that would be the best thing for the consumer - however companies prefer the Caveat Emptor (Buyer beware) model, because they'd rather get our money before we see the game.  It's far easier to sell hype than gameplay.

 

 

I am well aware of the points posted in the last paragraph. However not being able to play before you buy is not an impediment for making an intelligent decision. You can do that by reading or watching critic and user reviews and forum contents. Remember, you are not forced to preorder the game or buy the game on the very first day of sale. If you insist you can always read the threads about future content and people playing the beta versions. A mixture of both critic and user reviews. Granted they are not your experience on your game but you can definitively do an intelligent decision based on what other people are saying of the game. By intelligent I do not mean blindly following the reviews to the letter but knowing yourself and your likes and using the reviews' information coupled with your own likes and expectations of the game to get to a conclusion. And that is not even without playing a demo.

...

 

I'll drink to that. Meanwhile, Simcity isn't total crap. As many have said, it is a open door for other game devs. I personally think Cities- Skylines is Cities- Pielines right now, and needs to be overhauled. Citybound still needs thousands of hours in development on more roads, simulation, and ALL of the services, as well as building up a good fanbase. Simcity, as buggy as it was (and is), was a reveloution in the industry, and I'm fine with the 60 bucks spent on it, not only because Simcity was the said reveloution of the line of city-builders, but because ( I feel cool knowing the game inside-out) it actually got me into the genera, and I am now much smarter on how to manage a town and I know about all the city-building games now.